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As a non watcher who had had to listen to a lot of talk about this series over the years, isn't pert of the problem that the books gave out part way through season 6 so the show's writers got to do their thing rather than try to interpret a well scripted story arc from the originator.
Yara Greyjoy – No expectation of ever ruling
She was pretty much about expecting to run the Iron Islands from the word go, her brother was useless to begin with and she was already running tings around them parts. What's happened at the end? Now that Captain Jack Sparrow is out the way, she's running the Iron Islands.
Tully is the comedy low IQ inbred rich boy in armour, but he expects to be the boss of Lands Tully by dint of birthright.
Who also had his unwanted power thrust upon him unexpectedly when his older brother and father were burned alive by the Mad King.
Just for clarity here, are only the eldest male heirs allowed in the category of "expects to rule"?
Rather than, say, "any member of local royalty" who arrives in the hot seat by whatever means, and whomever's hand? Anyone born into a royal family has to expect that an accession is possible, even if not by their design; being part of a ruling family usually confer a positions of power of some sort, if not the local top job. Average patriarchal society* any daughters could expect marriage to another royalty, sons would get offical roles, both a position in line, etc.
* by and large GoT-land
But why is there still a Nights Watch when everyone’s now all BFFs with the Freefolk, and there ain’t no more problem with the Deadfolk?
Because the Kingdom still needs somewhere to send it's disgraced noblemen, unwanted bastards and rapists.
Tyrion said exactly that.
The John Hughes style ending is what it really needed - rounds it off nicely. (needs sound)
https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1130581319593783296
Because the Kingdom still needs somewhere to send it’s disgraced noblemen, unwanted bastards and rapists.
Tyrion said exactly that.
Well yeah, I get/got that, but what are they going to do all day?
Post on STW.
Be bastards and rape each other?
It's not even original. Wee lassie kills undead evil.
Tolkien did it with the Nazgûl. Éowyn simply stabs the Witch King of Angmar in the face with her sword and he ceases to be. Can't be killed by a living man eh? 'Av it.
Greyworm: Here is the traitor. Let's cut his head off.
Tyrion: Just a minute. Umm, you don't have a King or Queen anymore so how about that weird stoner dude in the wheelchair, it would make a great story to tell everyone down the pub.
Everyone: Yeah, totally dude. What could possibly go wrong with that?
Bran: Thanks Tyrion, I won't cut your head off if you'll be my bud.
Tyrion: Well, okay, if you put it like that.
Greyworm: Damn you white people, I'm outta here.
Yup, that's how Bran rolls.
Not a follower of GoT myself, but I liked THIS (LINK) take from someone at Scientific American on the reason why the last 2 seasons were different.
That link is a good read and makes a lot of sense IMO
That link is a good read and makes a lot of sense IMO
I thought that link was just one of the twitter rants but they've thrown more words at it and found a thesaurus...
Yes.
We're saying they went Full Hollywood, but that article does explain what The Full Hollywood really is, in detail.
It's been summed up here a number of times, on this thread and probably on the S7 thread, that the difference was seeing what characters would do in the situations the story found them in, rather than pre-rolling a few heroic (and villainous) arcs - and then fitting the situations / actions / fights / etc around that.
The whole point of it being Bran is that it needed to be someone who didn’t want it.
He doesn’t really want anymore.
The entire story has been about the corruption and ultimate destruction of those who desire power.
Bran being the eventual king was in the post from chapter one of the first book - The alpha and the omega. I don't know how well the tv show did with his character, I've only watched isolated episodes - plenty of people sound surprised so perhaps it didn't work too well. But it will have matched GRRM's vision for the story's conclusion.
ive enjoyed and defended this series over the past 6 weeks but im mortally wounded by the finale' - it was absolutely bobbins.
As if Greyworm has enough clout to dictate what becomes of our glorious protagonist, the targareon king, one true heir, winner of a shit ton of tear-ups. sansa or bran should be like, eff off grey****, bend the knee or ill stick your head on a spike next to your mrs! besides, he slung it back to naath before jon got on his horse anyway so he'd never have known!
it was just stupid... oh, jamies brasshand sticking out of the rubble too! GTF...
Yeah, but, he had the Unsullied behind him.
You know. The same force that got decimated at the Night Fight yet seemed right back being large and in charge by the time of Dany's Nuremberg Rally. Curiously quick regeneration, for an army with no reproductive faculties...
And apparently the Dothraki didn't just get massacred at the start of the big fight, judging by the numbers on display. They must've just seen the opposition and decided to head for the pub to wait out the action.
There didn't seem to be nearly as many Dothraki or Unsullied as there used to be standing in that square. We're thousands of them in previous series.
Yup, that’s how Bran rolls.
What you did: I see it.
a small girl with a small dagger
f'off. Arya is nails and could have you any time. Blindfolded.
There didn’t seem to be nearly as many Dothraki or Unsullied as there used to be standing in that square. We’re thousands of them in previous series.
I wonder what could the reason be it's not there's been any battles.
I was replying to mrmonkfinger a couple of posts before mine. 😁
A Man with No Name is disappointed that he had no part at the end. But he is content that you are reading this in his accent.
😁
There didn’t seem to be nearly as many Dothraki or Unsullied
I'm not seeing a vast difference...alright, maybe a bit smaller...
how come the dagger that arya had was well good at stabbing, but it didnt cut her mums fingers off when she grabbed it?
Because stabbing and cutting arent the same thing?
Ever cut yourself with a needle or stabbed yourself with a sheet of A4 paper?
We’re saying they went Full Hollywood, but that article does explain what The Full Hollywood really is, in detail.
I stopped reading the article after the first handful of paragraphs, they read like a twitter rant calling the writers bad and then going on to question the dragons strength and power, brienne of tarth's role and then Bran. It just reads like one big whinge instead of a balanced explanation of why some people dont like the final season and some people do.
I'm in the latter camp, but then I haven't waited 8 years for this to end, I only watched all the series in the last year (twice), I wonder if there is a correlation between those who find the ending acceptable and those that dont and when they watched the preceding series?
A Man with No Name is disappointed that he had no part at the end. But he is content that you are reading this in his accent.
😆
f’off. Arya is nails and could have you any time. Blindfolded.
With one arm tied behind her back, hopping, wielding only a viciously sharp slice of melon, probably. And don't forget she killed a T1000 in series 6, too.
She's still small though. And so was the knife.
I’m not seeing a vast difference…
Did you look at the pictures you posted or are you Trumps inauguration counter?
Dothraki, Covfefe, Whatever. 🙂
It was all a bit "Return Of The King" for me. Predictable but dramatic peak after "Triumph Of The Will" at about 20 minutes then a load of waffling with far too much time to ponder things like why the clearly rather cross/unhinged Grey Worm kept Tyrion and Jon alive for weeks even though he was convinced they should be executed.
That Iron Throne was ALL ****ed up though. Not going to polish out IMO.
Watched the last 2 episodes back-to-back last night as I was away on hols last week. Personally I thought they were great & I was satisfied with the conclusion! Yeah, I'd have preferred it if the entire last season wasn't so rushed, the NK's demise was a bit anti-climatic, and EVERYTHING to do with Euron was just garbage - but judging the final 2 eps on their own I thought they were good, probably as good as they could've been. Obviously they hamstrung themselves by trying to wrap everything up in a mere 6 episodes, but bringing all that lot to a satisfactory conclusion must've been the second hardest job in the world after sorting out Brexit so I think they did OK!
Someone mentioned earlier that they thought Sansa didn't get much out of the deal... I think she was the [I]only[/I] person in the whole show who ended up with absolutely everything they wanted! Queen of an independent North. Definitely the character who's evolved the most & she was (rightly!) looking super-smug at the end.
Yup. It's obvious that the storytelling style had to change towards the end - by that point it's established who the main characters are; clearly their storylines need to reach some kind of conclusion.I stopped reading the article after the first handful of paragraphs, they read like a twitter rant
I actually quite liked the plot of the ending, but it was so rushed. Last episode was back up as good as the earlier episodes this season, episodes 4&5 let it down most IMO.
Ending was rather LOTR like - down at the dock, meeting the ships.
There is a story arc for Bran, covering the "it's why I've come so far" that got missed. There's Dany's descent into madness, the whole everyone going to Kings Landing with armies and stuff. Jon killed Dany, oh look a big gathering was a bit of a jump.
If they had taken episodes 4-6 and made twice as many to keep the epicness from earlier seasons, it would have been much much better.
Now we just need GRRM to finish the two books so we can see all the backstory that is missing. I won't hold my breath...
Favourite meme so far is on Robyn Arryn. Getting on quite well, since his anti-vax mom got thrown through the moon door.
Yup. It’s obvious that the storytelling style had to change towards the end
The only reason it had to change is that they ran out of GRRM's books to adapt and had to start writing original scripts, which they suck at. The general arc of the story is ok with me (Dany slips into tyrrany, Cersei loses her shit, Jaime, Jon Snow, and all the others realize too late that they're following tyrants to destruction). Problem is, it was so badly executed. They should have devoted a 10 episode season 7 to building an alliance to defeat the White Walkers and Cersei's betrayal, with the Night King killed in the season finale. Then a 10 episode season 8 devoted to regrouping and preparing to defeat Cersei, with both Dany and Cersei becoming isolated and more and more tyrranical, with the big battle mid-season followed by Dany totally losing her shit and destroying King's Landing. Then several episodes devoted to organizing a rebellion and convincing Jon that he is the only person who can stop her. Then two or three episodes devoted to sorting out the aftermath of the assassination, especially negotiating a new leader who is acceptable to the Dothraki and Unsullied, and convincing Sansa to accept a federation instead of just declaring independence. Honestly, why would all the other leaders accept Bran as king if he can't even convince his sister to follow him?
Sadly that was never going to happen. If the books go down that route I might actually bother to read them though!!
Shouldn't laugh...
had to start writing original scripts, which they suck at.
Nailed it.
@hols2
I’m pretty happy with the way it was done, but your way does sound better.
Could you get a couple of iPhones, a bunch of mates, nip over to Ireland and do your version please?
After Tyrion's "Bran has the most interesting story" speech my son argued that actually Arya's story was better as Bran spent a good chunk of his sat in a wheel barrow.
Sadly that was never going to happen
I want to know why though, surely it was still profitable for HBO so even if they had to make another season it would have made financial sense. I guess some of the actors had started to do other things and they might have had a problem contracting them for another year or two.
I just hope there was some half-decent reason other than the writers are just shite and that they actually thought they did a good job, GoT deserved more.
Coyote
Member
After Tyrion’s “Bran has the most interesting story” speech my son argued that actually Arya’s story was better as Bran spent a good chunk of his sat in a wheel barrow.
What exactly is Bran's story anyway? Far as I can tell, he got shoved out of a window, has visions, and does shit all of consequence after having them.
Why did the NK even give a crap about killing him? Did he know he would be king? Or does he really have some power greater than taking over birds and flying around?
I feel like I missed a chunk of story somewhere because it just seems like he's a useless nobody.
What exactly is Bran’s story anyway?
From what I gathered he is the repository of the stories of man, a sort race memory. We're supposed to go "ah, I see!" at this point though for the life of me I don't know what difference it makes to anyone since they don't seem to matter and he never tells anyone anything anyway. It just boils down to a GRRM McGuffin for a lot of the preceding events.
From what I gathered he is the repository of the stories of man, a sort race memory. We’re supposed to go “ah, I see!” at this point though for the life of me I don’t know what difference it makes to anyone since they don’t seem to matter and he never tells anyone anything anyway. It just boils down to a GRRM McGuffin for a lot of the preceding events.
You gathered exactly what you needed to gather...
Bran? Is that you?
There was a great (IMO) fan theory floating about that Bran had caused various pivotal events in history by affecting the past with his visions/warging into people (as he'd done with Hodor) e.g. turning the mad king mad etc. There were even theories that Bran somehow [I]was[/I] the NK, or had something to do with his creation. Maybe the NK didn't want to kill him, but turn him into some kind of uber white walker? Either way, the writers of the show chose not to go down that route, which left the whole Bran/NK story arc feeling like a bit of an anticlimax! The whole "story repository" thing does indeed sound like some kind of quickly-invented bullshit used to tie up that storyline without taking it any further.What exactly is Bran’s story anyway? Far as I can tell, he got shoved out of a window, has visions, and does shit all of consequence after having them.
It'll be interesting to see what GRRM comes up with (if he ever actually finishes writing the books!)
The only character to have a less relevant story than Bran was Ed Sheeran.
...which left the whole Bran/NK story arc feeling like a bit of an anticlimax! The whole “story repository” thing does indeed sound like some kind of quickly-invented bullshit used to tie up that storyline without taking it any further.
It’ll be interesting to see what GRRM comes up with
Somewhere back up thread I posted a twitter link on plotters vs pantsers. theory being George was led by his characters and got himself in some holes. There were loads of bits of GoT that went nowhere - the prophesies for a start
Even in the last few episodes - Bran warged off into ravens during the battle, seemingly to no consequence, Varys had a girl in the kitchens who may have been poisoning or trying to poison Dany (not more mention). Varys notes going out about Jon being the true king. Were none sent?
I think Bran does have an interesting story that wasn't told. His character clearly was built for something and when it wasn't a Night King storyline it had to be the Iron Throne.
I'm the three eyed raven goes to being bait for the Night King goes to Bran the broken wasn't very well explained. But then in the books he has only just met the three eyed crow.
Also, Bran can't change the past he can only observe it. I'm not sure how the Hodor thing will play out in the books, maybe a special case.
He clearly can change/affect the past as he did it on at least 2 occasions in the show. He just can't change the way he's changed it. Time travel paradox innit. 😃
Must admit I'd totally forgotten about the prophecy stuff. Maybe they were just red-herrings all along, to throw the fanboys off the scent. I must admit one of the best things about the show is that it always kept me guessing what was going to happen, right up until the end! Or did they just run out of time and couldn't tie it all together properly?
And all that shit about the fire god.
I think Bran does have an interesting story that wasn’t told
Say what now? I must have slept through that season. Probably like Bran did.
Regarding why end it so soon - it was the showrunners DB Weiss and David Benioff. They didn't want it to carry on despite HBO wanting more. I don't know what their reasons were, but they were always in charge of when it ended.
But clearly they did well out of it because they've got some interesting projects lined up including Star Wars.
Not something I have watched before, c4 Gogglebox on the last episode was superb. "Thats not the sword she was expecting" 😂
I think a lot of the disappointment is caused by the fact that while the TV show was behind the books, we all knew the back stories of the characters, we could read their thoughts, get insights of their motives through back story, something you can't readily do with just the filmed version.
For instance: Many folk are claiming that Ayra's kill of the Night King is a Deus Ex machina, but what we can't know is the effect that the relationship of Bran and Ayra, one an all seeing demi-god and warg, and the other a master swordswoman...and also warg has when they combine to distract and kill.
Isn't brans story that hes manipulated everyone to become king?
andybrad
Subscriber
Isn’t brans story that hes manipulated everyone to become king?
That was my reading of it too. Same storyline as Dr Strange in the Marvel stuff. Knew what was going to happen and as that's fixed, just then had to make sure it did.
Think that they were both also given the "you were where you needed to be" line to alude to this.