Perhaps the Just Stop Oil-ers should lie down in the road in front of them?
Oil is gonna stop, it’s in decline.
It’s just a matter of time.
If someone feels passionate about it, the absolute best thing they can do is stop using it.
No cars, no buses, no trains, no planes.
Protesting about the price of something you use is . .
I’ll stop there.
oil wont stop.
these protests will do nothing.
if you want to do something stop using all the products you currently use that utilise oil. try removing all plastics from your life for a start. i'd imagine you couldn't get through the week.
LOL. I remember the "dump the pump" idiots from about 20 years ago. Wow I must be getting old. I dumped the pump by cycling to work as usual.
It not just about the cost of personal transport.
The cost of anything you buy is being humped by the cost of oil. From the mfg to the transport.
Cycling to work is part of the solution but if you think that your not using oil day to day your deluded.
Before we get too far into this thread, I would just like to point out that anyone who doesn't live in a cabin in the woods, foraging for food and eschewing modern life in its entirety - indeed, anyone who has the means to read this comment, EVEN IF YOU'RE READING IT ON A PHONE YOU FOUND IN A HEDGE THAT HAPPENED TO BE LOGGED IN TO STW - is somehow a hypocrite and has no business commenting on this topic.
Ta
Can we just be clear, as some posters seem confused - this protest is about making fuel cheaper, nothing to do with banning it/climate.
Seems an odd way to protest...
"I'm going to use some of this thing that I can't afford, as inefficiently as possible. That'll show em..."
I assume priti will be sending in armed police to beat crap out of protestors?
Seems an odd way to protest…
On the face of it yes. But they're inconvinicing people and causing disruption which is an effective way to get your message heard. Whether it makes people sympathise is another question.
Also with the clamp down on the rights to protest by the UK government, if they'd have marched to Westminster and made too much noise they'd have probably been arrested.
Now a constant go-slow between Downing Street and Westminster to inconvinience No 10 and No 11, would be quite funny.
Can we just be clear, as some posters seem confused – this protest is about making fuel cheaper, nothing to do with banning it/climate.
They're intrinsically linked though. If fuel is more expensive, people will use less of it. The less attractive the black stuff looks, the more attractive greener alternatives look.
Much as high fuel prices annoy me, I can't quite bring myself to condemn them as ultimately I think it's beneficial.
Much as high fuel prices annoy me, I can’t quite bring myself to condemn them as ultimately I think it’s beneficial.
Agree but should be tiered for food production and transport.....
if you want to do something stop using all the products you currently use that utilise oil.
Oil is integrated into the economy at a deep systemic level. The only way to avoid using it is to live off grid self-sufficiently or to kill yourself. It's up to governments to do something about the negative impacts of oil use, not the individual. In the meantime everyone has to carry on with life, and the price of fuel is a major hindrance in that. There's no conflict between people protesting the price of fuel and others protesting for less oil use. Both need to happen.
The cost of anything you buy is being humped by the cost of oil. From the mfg to the transport.
the cost of transporting goods really is absolutely tiny. a typical articulated supermarket lorry carries 26 mixed pallets, they're normally loaded with around a tonne of goods each. a lorry does about 10mpg. lets say your average food miles is 1000 (picked that number out of thin air), for a whole lorry's worth (26 tonnes) of stuff that would be 100 gallons of fuel. at £1/litre its £450 and at £2/litre its £900.
now lets start figuring out how much that costs for, say, a jar of sauce. 1 jar of sauce is 1/2kg, so you can stack 2000 on a pallet and 52,000 on a lorry. The total cost of dragging one of them for 1,000 miles is under 1p at £1/litre and under 2p at £2/litre. Those figures reduce significantly when things are produced nearer to home, or packed more efficiently on a lorry, etc etc.
So yes, the cost of fuel does have an impact on inflation, but in a jar of sauce costing £1 you're looking at somewhere in the order of 1%, which is miniscule compared to the 10% overall inflation rate.
But they’re inconvinicing people
Well, I remain inconvinced by them.
If only everything we transported was jars of sauce.
The action is mainly targeting three-lane motorways and is seeing convoys of vehicles driving slowly in two lanes - leaving the "fast" outside lane free.
So, no different to any other day on a UK motorway then?
HGV in lane 1, MLM in a Honda Jazz doing 62mph in lane 2, never leaving lane 2 for 20 miles, leaving lane 3 for everyone else who wants to do 70mph. Pretty standard!
Pretty standard!
Bit optimistic. You missed the Yaris overtaking the Jazz at 63mph.
If fuel is more expensive, people will use less of it.
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
The vid of the protesters I've seen is some classic small minded men who want some form of recognition for whatever their small minds came up with 30 seconds ago.
I’ve not seen any footage, but I presume this is lots of fat, angry red-faced men in tractors again, a la ****ryside Alliance?
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
That doesn't mean it hasn't suppressed usage. Do you think that if fuel was half the price we'd be using exactly the same amount?
the cost of transporting goods really is absolutely tiny
There's also costs in creating it, but I get your point.
Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
But there are other reasons for petrol usage to go up. It might've gone up even more had it been cheaper, in fact I suspect it would have.
IME the Honda Jazz usually sits politely in the slow lane. It's the Ford Kugas and big fat Nissans these days
Re the protests, new Severn bridge is closed due to them.
Despite prices at record highs, people can still be seen in car parks, stationary, with their engines idling for tens of minutes.
On the face of it yes. But they’re inconvinicing people and causing disruption which is an effective way to get your message heard. Whether it makes people sympathise is another question.
I meant that finding a way to cause similar disruption without using fuel would seem more sensible, similar to how Insulate Britian did it (unless that's been outlawed now).
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
Fuel duty has remained flat in nominal terms for over a decade. Motoring costs have tended to reduce in real terms over time in recent decades. So, even if all else was equal (it isn't), it wouldn't be a surprise that usage had continued to go up.
I think also notable that while retail fuel price rises have been big, at roundabout 30% over the period we're talking about, say 6 months or so, they have been much less than electricity prices rises as far as I can see (over 100%). And similarly much less in percentage terms than wholesale fossil fuel price increases (accepting this is a much more volatile graph).
The aims of the protest are deluded - we should be using less oil and fuel, so I don't think fuel prices should be reduced for personal use anyway.
As we're currently stuck in a position where we are dependent on oil for food production and delivery, I'd agree that prices need to go down for commercial use. But reducing duty hurts everyone - less income for the government, less to spend on public services (like the public transport you should be using). The protest should focus on reducing the profit for the likes of Shell who made $7.2bn in three months earlier this year after oil prices rose.
I’ve not seen any footage, but I presume this is lots of fat, angry red-faced men in tractors again, a la ****ryside Alliance?
White vans not tractors but otherwise spot on.
Despite prices at record highs, people can still be seen in car parks, stationary, with their engines idling for tens of minutes.
^this, usually while charging their phone because we all know, a car battery has exactly 0.0001% the capacity of a £7 power-bank off Amazon. The price of petrol doesn't put people like this off driving, they just end up with less money in their pocket.
For those looking to shake their heads in despair.
https://twitter.com/ConorGogarty/status/1543842955458396162?t=iyWEdAEEohzhLgNr2_xA4Q&s=19
Seems an odd way to protest…
“I’m going to use some of this thing that I can’t afford, as inefficiently as possible. That’ll show em…”
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their "go-slow" would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
Holding up the traffic? That’s 10 years in prison now. I will be writing to my MP to ensure he demands equal treatment for fuel protestors and EXR
For those looking to shake their heads in despair.
That'll stick it too the man.....go Richard !!! 😉
That reminds me , best go fill up the van before the ****s start blockading the pumps / or the panic buying starts.
This forum is not frequented by many that are really effected by these kinds of rises.
I have a team that I work with - many are on little above minimum wage. Due to the specialised nature of our work* and the remote location many of them have 45-60 min commute (cycling & public transport isn't an option for most, and local housing is both unusual and very expensive).
Some have seen an increase of up to £80 a month in fuel alone for commuting, and for a lot of them, that is their total monthly disposable income. Most are trying to find second jobs.
Please don't assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
*nationally/globally important role in health protection in the south of england - civil service.
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their “go-slow” would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
Yep. These are the people that lose their shit if they're "stuck behind a cyclist" for 3 seconds, they'll complain bitterly at things like Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, 20mph zones etc and how they're forced to use more fuel driving longer distances or more slowly.
And then they go out and do this. 🙄
There was another tweet I saw about a go-slow group pulled over by the police with several of them getting fines for various offences like no tax/insurance/MOT. 😅
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
This 100%. If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they've completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their “go-slow” would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
And probably spend a lot of time in the pub swigging on their £3-5 pints 😉
The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
Well we've seen time and time again that carrots aren't working, so we probably do need sticks. This is a convenient one.
I have a team that I work with – many are on little above minimum wage. Due to the specialised nature of our work* and the remote location many of them have 45-60 min commute (cycling & public transport isn’t an option for most, and local housing is both unusual and very expensive).
Some have seen an increase of up to £80 a month in fuel alone for commuting, and for a lot of them, that is their total monthly disposable income. Most are trying to find second jobs.
Is car sharing an option ? I used to work 25 miles away. I picked up 2 colleagues on the way, one was 15 miles from work and one 5 miles. Split the fuel 3 ways . Saved money for all of us
Why are staff doing a...
nationally/globally important role in health protection in the south of England – civil service.
Only getting paid a...
little above minimum wage.
??
Sorry I know this is off topic, but if the job is that critical, then the people servicing it should be on a decent wage. Shopfloor work in Tesco's pays a fair bit over minimum and generally doesn't require a massive commute. People should vote with their feet more. This is probably far too simplistic an argument, feel free to flame away.
@thepodge & also filmed using a phone at the wheel in clip 2 on twitter 🤔 blows the "just using 2 lanes" statement out the water too, oh so clever..
This forum is not frequented by many that are really effected by these kinds of rises.
Similar issue here we have a number of staff wanting to relocate due to the rising costs. Problem is that’s not easy as others now won’t want to move due to the rising costs.
Sorry I know this is off topic, but if the job is that critical, then the people servicing it should be on a decent wage.
Welcome to the UK.
Social care / social works are paid a pittance.
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
I don’t think anyones assuming that. An electric car is way way out of my price range, but I’m lucky enough that I’m a namby pamby type who works from home and who’s car can go all week without moving
I don’t doubt for a minute that this is causing all manner of people genuine hardship.
It’s just difficult to see how driving slowly around the motorway is going to make any difference? They say they’re on a ‘go slow’ by keeping speeds down to 30mph. Most of the time on the M60 you can only dream of the adrenaline fuelled rush of a whole 30mph
