All those protesters seem a bit, err, gammony.
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
This 100%. If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they’ve completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
Yes, please don't make massive assumptions about the public because this other massive assumption about the public supports that view.
The people protesting are doing it for no other reason than to bolster their over inflated ego. Whether that is intentional or because their are too stupid to realise the Government and / or oil companies don't give a toss what they say, I'm not sure.
I have more sympathy for the eco lot but equally not sure the message is getting across how they would really like it to.
Dickyboy
filmed using a phone at the wheel
I notice a lack of seat belt too, looked like the police were tolerating them but I see now a few have been arrested and vehicles impounded for lack of tax and insurance.
I don’t doubt for a minute that this is causing all manner of people genuine hardship.
We (as in the company I work for) have done a fair bit of work on Transport Related Social Exclusion, the slight problem being that we can research it to death and find out the areas / demographics worst affected but we have no devolved powers to actually do anything about it.
It's Transport Poverty - people are forced into owning a car due to where they live/work, the lack of other options like affordable / reliable public transport, lack of active travel provision (and this includes safe cycle storage as well as the more obvious things like cycle lanes) and they end up working to pay for the car they need to go to work to pay for the car...
They can't afford a new car, they can't afford not to be working or to move house, it's not easy to "just" change jobs, especially at the lower wage end of the spectrum and they can't afford to travel to other opportunities like job interviews, more education, social events so they end up absolutely stuck in a spiral of cost pressures.
Add in things like ULEZ, congestion charging etc which a lot of cities are putting in now and the problem becomes worse again.
There's a protest fairly local to me (N of Inverness). That's in an area where driving isn't a luxury, it's a day-to-day necessity.
Also, the Govt really needs to increase the tax allowance for business mileage fuel allowance. It's crazy that my wife and her colleagues are being penalised for having to use their own cars for work.
they end up working to pay for the car they need to go to work to pay for the car…
I remember this from bus deregulation days under thatcher, car ownership went up but overall mobility went down, but measure of standard of living went up with car ownership 🙄
Without getting into whether or not it's a sane protest...
Protesting about the price of something you use is . .
Are people supposed to protest about prices of things they *don't* use?
If people feel things are too expensive, then I think it's okay for them to voice it, rather than just sucking it up.
What a prick.
https://twitter.com/johnpaulwright/status/1543845368378654720?s=21&t=KI5NaPu56SlkrMikx1UXPw
vehicles impounded for lack of tax and insurance.
Jebus wept, you couldn't make it up, could you? Going to a protest to burn more of the thing you're protesting about the price of, at a place that has ANPR and a police presence? You might want to check you're legal.
You might want to check you’re legal.
I think it's well established for the average man/woman in the street (or motorway) that "all guidance was followed and no rules were broken"... (or 1001 other lies and breaking the law by the government) so it's hardly surprising your average man/woman on the protest don't see it as important.
The jar of chutney or pickle someone mentioned was made from stuff on a farm, run on diesel.. transported to a warehouse by diesel then sent to a factory by diesel.. currently running at way more than petrol due to duty.
If that's not enough for mixed messages then we are promoting petrol burning over diesel with mixed messages anyway with pictures of Pandas... the same Pandas who's food is being taken no doubt for substitutes for synthetic materials... ?? Who's ecosystems along with those cute polar bears are threatened not by some particulates on the M6 but by the CO2 that is higher per kg/mile than diesel .. except particulates suddenly aren't important when for example artic's are forced through the built up M6 corridor over the M6 Toll through the toll charges...
At the same time our council has a green agenda .. this means getting cement made outside the borough (so zero carbon for our borough) to build skyscrapers whilst cutting down green areas and putting a token "green wall" - and are knocking down homes to build a dual carriageway right through the town centre and right through the middle of these new tower blocks!
I don't know how this all balances out ... I do know its not simply black and white
The DM gammon's are reacting with hate towards anyone in the story comments who says the drivers causing the blockage/go slow on fuel price protest should be arrested.
Funny lot. climate protestors are out, stop the oil protestors are out, rail strikers etc, but fuel protests, no matter how inconvenient to others they are getting right behind. 😆
From the lovely mail article, I've not even got to the comments yet
drives 30 miles to Cardiff for work daily, and said the cost is now 'upwards of £300' a week, having been around '£125 before the price increases'.
So unless he is telling porkies, he is refering to a point in time when fuel was about 80p/L
Anyone want to guess when that was?
Ha! What's he driving, a Veyron?
What the hell is that guy driving? If I was to drive to work every day my 100 mile round trip would cost about £100 per week (basically a tank of fuel)
What do you mean ‘unless’?
Seems an odd way to protest…
I believe the term is "Irony"... TBH, despite not being able to stump up for a shiny new Tesla or even a more fuel efficient ICE car right now, I'm glad petrol/diesel are getting prohibitivly expensive. it may well prompt governments (probably not this one, more likely who ever follows) to properly examine how vulnerable we are as a country to external influences on our energy sources and at the same time address the environmental impacts.
Still Mondeo man gotta Mondeo and your local Evri/Yodel parcel loser gotta hit those KPIs.
If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they’ve completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
I'm past caring what the Gammonry want TBH they've had their way a fair bit over the last few years and so far haven't improved anything for anyone.
Fine they can throw their toys out the pram again, complain about 'the wokes' and some imagined class warfare they're waging on, well, themselves it would appear. But current fuel prices are a symptom of short term, myopic thinking (plus a pandemic, plus a war) driving the world off a chuffing great cliff. but they can't top off their Van, my heart bleeds...
Bunch of ****ing morons are welcome to "protest" well until Pritti has them rounded up at least...
Of the people who need some sort of help right now; "motorway Man" who can afford to piss away a day dragging his arse over the severn bridge to make some sort of point is waaaay behind those queued up at food banks, struggling to afford housing, dealing with domestic abuse, those fleeing conflict and being sent to Rwanda, etc, etc on my Give-a-shit-o-meter that it makes me wonder how exactly they think anyone could feel any sympathy for them...
Genuine question, Who organised this little outing?
Edit:
US focussed but makes the point petrol/diesel prices are not as straight forwards as Bojo or Biden saying 'Yay' or 'Nay' to rises...
US focussed but makes the point petrol/diesel prices are not as straight forwards as Bojo or Biden saying ‘Yay’ or ‘Nay’ to rises…
Doesn't help that the £ has fallen to record lows against pretty much every other currency (and in fact I'd be willing to bet that all those gammons driving around at 20mph are all Leave voters...)
Oil is the world's most traded commodity so exchange rate fluctuations play a huge part in the end result of the pricing structure.
And cutting fuel taxes is a massive black hole to the treasury which absolutely can't afford cuts like that at the moment. In an ideal world, fuel tax would have followed inflation for the last 10-15 years, instead it's been kept at the same rate (cos "hard-working motorist") and now the price rise is coming all at once. There's been zero preparation for any sort of green future, cutting dependency on oil etc. Nothing.
Nothing.
So you've read UK PLC's long term energy strategy white paper.
One of their finest I believe.
I’m past caring what the Gammonry want
Don't confuse gammons with people who can't afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
The problem is due to decades of poor government policy, don't blame the poor sods at the bottom of the pile who are suffering most as a result of it.
Don’t confuse gammons with people who can’t afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
The problem is due to decades of poor government policy, don’t blame the poor sods at the bottom of the pile who are suffering most as a result of it.
This. As pointed out, for some folk, driving isn't a choice if they want an income, eat, support their families etc.
Don’t confuse gammons with people who can’t afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
Indeed, but were the working poor the ones pissing about on the motorways today?
Such unpaid outings and fuel wastage are beyond the means of the genuinely poverty stricken... If you could afford to participate in this "protest" then you aren't the most needy...
We all know it was the Gammons, whether they self identify such or fein offence at the label. The emotional Oafs that appear to steer our country from disaster to disaster now, were out in force to express their displeasure at something that is affecting everyone, not just them, by making life harder for everyone... They have an M.O. but very little by way of a point.
If they'd really wanted to scare the oil companies today they should have all avoided purchasing fuel. Gone on a consumer strike, stayed home, not used a drop of fuel. Because they could all clearly afford to miss a day of work, despite the apparent poverty they're struggling with...
Well today I drove over the Severn Bridges 4 times.
Not one single queue or sign of a protest. Lots of Highway Wombles and Police vans though, the odd motorbike too.
It was today wasn't it?
If they’d really wanted to scare the oil companies today they should have all avoided purchasing fuel.
There's an obvious flaw in your plan.
Indeed, but were the working poor the ones pissing about on the motorways today?
You answered your question in the very next sentence.
i’ve noticed that when fuel is scarce people drive economically, but high prices don’t have the same result.
and what can the government do about fuel prices? reduce the tax, i suppose. that would leave even less money to run the country.
and what can the government do about fuel prices?
Have they suggested making bicyles pay road tax?
Have they suggested making bicyles pay road tax?
that’s brilliant
.
i’ve noticed that when fuel is scarce people drive economically, but high prices don’t have the same result.
Me too. I haven't seen any decrease in motorway speeds. I can only conclude that drivers who do 90mph in the outside lane can afford to do so however high the price of petrol goes.
You answered your question in the very next sentence.
Thanks, it's called a 'rhetorical question'.
My point stands though, today's "protestors" weren't those "at the bottom of the pile" just aimlessly angry men easily nudged into action by a FB group...
If they actually want to sort fuel prices they should take it up with Putin and OPEC, I'm still not clear how their little motorway tantrums helped the issue? Who was going to address their demands? The people they held up? the police? The government? (For clarity, another rhetorical question).
There’s an obvious flaw in your plan.
Well Duh. There's a flaw in any "plan" to "stick it to the man" (whoever you think that is) and somehow get cheap petrol back, you're complaining about the price of a restricted supply, high demand commodity in a country with a monstrous lob-on for the free market. The only two things that will dial that price back down are increased supply (and the people selling it control the supply) or a drop in demand, and demand isn't reducing is it? (another rhetorical question)
All Mondeo and Van man proved to shell/BP/Esso today was that people still really, really want petrol. Those companies and their shareholders aren't really known for their altruism. So I wouldn't hold your breath if you thought petrol was about to get cheaper, and we already know they're just fine with us all scrapping on the forecourts for that last half a gallon of dinosaur juice...
Interesting article explaining the impact on various people of the cost of fuel.
For the lady living in Jersey the cycle commute makes perfect sense as it's only about 12 miles across. Wonder how many people will look at alternative forms of transport.
I'd love to go back to having a cycle commute every day like I did pre-pandemic but the housing, more precisely the rental, crisis is preventing me from moving closer to my new job so forcing me to use a tank of fuel every week just to get to and from work. I'm in the double whammy of having to drive my car a lot more just so I can earn and the fuel price being so high making it financially unsustainable.
Something has to change but I agree that these protests are not going to do anything.
Unless we stop burning fossil fuels large parts of the world are going to become uninhabitable within our lifetimes. Thats the basic fact.
Governments have been universally useless in dealing with this.
Fuel / motoring is far too cheap and indeed is cheaper now compared to wages than anytime since the 70s oil price shock ( well until the latest rises)
But these protests show the political impossibility of actually doing something about it.
Still. I'll be dead in 25 years and have no kids. It matters not to me. But those of you with kids why are you not protesting the pollution that causes global warming that will destroy your kids lives?
why are you not protesting the pollution that causes global warming that will destroy your kids lives?
Because it won't make any difference. What we can can do is change our lifestyles as best we can and bring out kids up responsibly. And only have two.
We need government to change things, we can't lay all the blame at the door of the helpless fools.
Unless we stop burning fossil fuels large parts of the world are going to become uninhabitable within our lifetimes. Thats the basic fact.
No it's not a basic fact .. a more accurate way to put it is if we carry on doing all the same things and we have a couple of volcano's erupt large parts of the earth will be unpleasant. Even for recent history we are far below the Paleocene and Eocene global temperatures where life flourished.
The "government" have made up a phrase "climate emergency" whatever that means but their actions don't actually show them to be prioritising it so what is Mondeo man or white transit man meant to think??
Obviously we need to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions but government policy is to do the opposite in many ways.. if they were serious they would be prioritising diesel use over petrol rather than the other way around and encouraging ICE vehicles to take the most efficient routes but they are doing entirely the opposite. It seems the tree huggers lobby has convinced people that particulates are somehow the same as greenhouse gasses.... our current government is more than happy to oblige and keep encouraging party donors to burn peatlands to provide grouse shooting.
(This isn't to say particulate pollution is not a bad thing, just that it is not the same thing and anyone can check given a prompt and access to t'internet)
People are getting tired of obviously false statements and use of these to greenwash and justify what are obviously policies and actions by government (down to local) that are obviously in direct opposition to addressing anthropomorphic climate change. It is as I pointed out earlier in the eyes of many no different from "cheese and wine and no rules were broken" (which is simply divisive since a fair proportion of people don't even care if the government can follow its own rules) or if you prefer £265M on the side of a bus..
As I mentioned earlier my local council made a huge deal (paid FB ads through a PR consultancy) about putting in a greenwall... they said nothing about knocking down perfectly good housing or the millions of tons of concrete to build unnecessary skyscrapers that the greenwall is part of. Of course that concrete isn't produced in the borough so it is not included in their carbon accounting and other places are taking the hit.
Ultimately mondeo man and white van man are being lied to on all sides... ONE of these is an immediate effect for them... it's hardly surprising they lean in the direction saves them money and preserves their standard of living in the short term.
cookea
My point stands though, today’s “protestors” weren’t those “at the bottom of the pile” just aimlessly angry men easily nudged into action by a FB group…
Isn't that the "train drivers shouldn't strike for the much lower paid workers as they are raking it in" argument?
Global warming will make large parts of the planet uninhabitable in a gerneration. That is a fact. Its even happening in Europe.
Drought and extreme temps in france and Spain. Water shortages in the US. Desertification in africa.
Stop burying your heads in the sand. Its happening now
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1544182300409303042?t=9Rop58jY1_Nc-J7kYfRKXw&s=09
Cue outrage from the gammons protesting as they realise that the laws they were so in favour of when it applied to Insulate Britain protesters can also be used against them.
On the other hand, this is yet more micromanaging of the police with the intention of using them as the Government's enforcement unit.
Global warming will make large parts of the planet uninhabitable in a gerneration. That is a fact. Its even happening in Europe.
Did you really swallow that or are you just repeating it... ???
Drought and extreme temps in france and Spain. Water shortages in the US. Desertification in africa.
But how does that make large parts of the planet uninhabitable?
Obviously parts won't support the same population density of humans but humans already exist in and inhabit the Sahara... and animal diversity was far greater than today when the earth had much much higher global temperatures.
Stop burying your heads in the sand. Its happening now
What's happening ?
Certainly not the extinction of life on Earth...
Do you deny the Tuareg exist in the Sahara?
That Dubai exists?
That life flourished in the Tethyan ?
When white van man points this out your response is what ?? I don't believe you?
why are you not protesting the pollution that causes global warming that will destroy your kids lives?
Because it won’t make any difference. What we can can do is change our lifestyles as best we can and bring out kids up responsibly. And only have two.
Well we can do little about volcanoes .. true ... but we could protest about diesel prices forcing more gasoline use and higher CO2 ... and lack of nuclear power in the UK.
Meanwhile you might want to protest about peat burning, log fires and knocking down perfectly good buildings to replace with concrete and point out greenwashing where it occurs.
Stop denying facts. How many people where on the planet then and how much water per person did they use?
Drought in Italy as well right now. Thats large parts of Europe with drought. Thats a new development in my lifetime
When spain no longer has enough water for its population then what etc etc.
and animal diversity was far greater than today when the earth had much much higher global temperatures.
Over what time period did those temperatures change?
Do you deny the Tuareg exist in the Sahara?
At extremely low levels per km and with lots of interaction with settled communities. Which people are you going to sacrifice?
That Dubai exists?
Very low population level again although boosted with temporary oil wealth. Not exactly a long term option or one available to many groups.
That life flourished in the Tethyan ?
Which might be useful if we were dolphins or are you hoping for Waterworld?
Its a mass extinction event and we ate at the beggining of it.
Large parts of the world are going to be too hot and too dry to support humans. That means water wars and massive displacement of peoples ad we all try to crowd into the cooler and wetter bits.
The loss of icecaps and glaciets mean rivers become seasonal
I have seen hard evidence of climate change with my own eyes. Stp denying it. Its real and its happening and anyone with their eyes open can see it.
We're approaching 'too many people'; is there a Godwin's Law equivalent?
What TJ's saying, +1.
We’re approaching ‘too many people’
Not really, just far too many greedy people, and too much inequality in resource utilisation.
I'd not be hugely surprised if the "developed world" dumps enough water on it's lawns and flowerbeds and wastes enough through leaks to solve a huge chunk of the issues elsewhere.
Can't remember where i heard it, but until fairly recently the next world war was mostly likely to be caused by water shortages. But instead it'll be a fascist dictator with drug induced megalomania. And if trump gets in again, we can have TWO fascist dictators.
While I agree with the sentiment the way in which it has been delivered is so pithless- a bit like a Labour party manifesto. I can't help but think of this when I read it.
