It's Friday and I'm going away for the weekend so this could be fun.
Why do some people think that speeding (in a car) isn't really wrong? And get annoyed with speed cameras?
Because they want to get where they are going more quickly. I think most people don't treat driving as a dangerous activity becasue usually it isn't so they think it won't happen to them. Driving is treated so casually in this country. Something you can do while chatting on the phone, listening to music while playing with your satnav.
It's a shit state of affairs.
Brought home again now school is back and I walk my kids to school on a narrow pavement alongside a 40mph road. Now occasionally some drivers think, 'hold on this is a village with kids on pavements and a school, i'll slow down to 30 or so'. Most don't and a large number reckon it's ok to be buzzing my elbow at 50mph. Cocks.
I have a motorbike, why wouldn't i ?
There are a few long stretches of 30 and 40 around here, it almost feels like you're deliberately winding the drivers behind up by driving at the speed limit!
Yes, [b]Yak[/b]; I'm with you on this one. I [i]try[/i] to drive as respectfully through other people's communities as I would want them to through mine.
Speed!?
Everyone seems to drive like an old fart around our way.
I got done for speeding the other day. 35 in a 30. I saw the van and looked at my speedo and thought it was ok, obviously not, my fault, fair cop.
I don't think it's big or clever and I'm not someone who usually speeds that much. Although i do a bit, like every one else. Some people drive stupidly fast but i think it comes down to the fact that there aren't any police on the roads and individual cameras mean you can speed then slow down at that point.
I'd be happy for more average speed cameras to be about as they seem to work on the motorways.
Same as why they think it's OK to drive through amber & even 'just' red traffic lights.
Also WTF is it with people sitting in a queue at a red light then deciding to start driving forward a bit even though the lights aren't changing. It's not like they left a huge gap to move into or that them moving is going to make the lights change any quicker, so why bother?
I only speed when dressed formally, never when dressed casually.
because it's easy to do?
most people drive slightly over the limit, say 32-33 in a 30 45ish in a 40 and so on, cars are well insulated, engines are quiet and nearly every car is plenty powerful enough in any gear.
I don't think people think it's not wrong, just don't pay enough attention to it.
Driver convenience, comfort, isolation from the danger presented to others. Sense of control and freedom, not to mention wanting a return on the not inconsiderable financial outlay on a mobile status symbol. In a hurry, self important, lack of consequence, delusion, thrill of speed and because they can?
Safety cameras stop the fun. I'd place them behind every speed limit sign (including repeaters) and at every ATS controlled junction.
Nice people become arrogant ****ers behind the wheel of a car.
Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Because it's more fun. I love the sensation of speed and I can get it every time I drive on the roads, as long as I'm prepared to break the law.
Also, put me behind the wheel of a lively, enthusiastic vehicle on an open, sweeping, undulating B road and I become alive: my reflexes sharpen, I become more aware. I choose my line, my braking points, look ahead for hazards, and general enjoy the "roadcraft" of "making progress".
Put me in a line of traffic dawdling along at 25mph and I just become another zombie, far more likely to be saying "Sorry mate, I didn't see you"...
[quote=oldtalent ]Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Not sure if this is a troll or not.
There's a lot more cars on the road now.
I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Nothing more frustrating though now than being on the motorway in the middle of the night and bloody Nazi control systems which stop you doing over 70mph, so you sit there with the cruise on doing literally nothing and fall asleep.
Because they can SEE the cameras so can get away with it
Also, put me behind the wheel of a lively, enthusiastic vehicle on an open, sweeping, undulating B road and I become alive: my reflexes sharpen, I become more aware. I choose my line, my braking points, look ahead for hazards, and general enjoy the "roadcraft" of "making progress".
IMO this is an argument to choose to things like a Mini 1275 GT rather than the latest hyper-hatch. The mini will give that feeling at far lower speed than the Wanger GTI-Turbo but with concomitant lower risk to the driver, passengers, 3rd parties, street furniture etc if 'making progress' becomes 'making a mistake'.
Also, I 2nd Downsheps idea. Been saying the same for a while now.
Not sure if this is a troll or not.
Why does everything have to be a "troll" unless it conforms exactly with your views???
risk normalisation.
nothing bad happened the last time I did this, ergo it must be safe.
see post below as a case in point.
I've never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads.
if 'making progress' becomes 'making a mistake'.
This is my point Purist, I've never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads. I've come close and bruised bumpers several times in heavy traffic.
Obviously, I wouldn't speed in heavy traffic, but I'm an experienced enough driver to be able to make a judgement on whether it's safe to drive faster than the law prescribes. AND, when I feel it's safe to do so without getting caught!
I think about this a lot on my commute as I get overtaken by countless motorists on my bike.
I think it's the case that society sees it as a victimless crime, as so many people do it and so few result in KSIs it's seen as acceptable. You can even see it in the judicial system - easiest way to commit murder and get away it? Do it in a car.
I think here's also an argument about the technical aspect, but can't really verbalise it - why is 31mph seen as dangerous when 29mph isn't. Obviously you can justify it with physics and energy values, but normally you don't think of those and it just seems a bit... ...arbitrary. Which it has to be to be a technical offence.
I wouldn't speed in heavy traffic, but I'm an experienced enough driver to be able to make a judgement on whether it's safe to drive faster than the law prescribes. AND, when I feel it's safe to do so without getting caught!
Then you get folk like this. I'm sure this is the case with some, but there comes a point when confidence becomes overconfidence and arrogance. At that point the risks increase massively.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge? I'll go with the professionals at TRL on that one...
urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Average speed across towns, with lights and traffic and roundabouts is only about 15mph anyway. You're completely at the mercy of what the lights do and whether a bin lorry pulls out in front of you or whatnot.
None of that stops the usual thoughtless pilots from competing in traffic light grand prixes before halting at the next one for another two minutes, in series of "making progress" fails.
Bit of several things.
Rules that aren't enforced may as well not be rules at all for large chunks of the population
Speed limits being randomly lowered despite an accident rate of 0% over the 30yrs or so i've lived in the area.
Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.
By and large I have much bigger problems with people that drive massively under the limit (a lot of 40mph on main A roads around here), and idiot overtaking (when on the bike).
urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Agree. But for any conurbation size. It is in many other countries and makes for a far safer and more enjoyable environment for all.
16 pages, two bans and a flounce.
Also WTF is it with people sitting in a queue at a red light then deciding to start driving forward a bit even though the lights aren't changing.
And then invariably, when the lights do change it takes them ten seconds to actually set off.
most people drive slightly over the limit, say 32-33 in a 30 45ish in a 40 and so on,
That's probably within most speedo tolerances to be actually driving at the speed limit.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge?
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.
councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a (bad) accident waiting to happen
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.
you are the most awesome surfmat and I claim my £5.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge?
I'm James Hunt.
At least that's what the driver of the car I just dodged in front of at 57mph in a 20mph zone shouted at me.
Curse you jam bo I was waiting for the 330d to make an appearance!
[quote=councilof10 ]Not sure if this is a troll or not.
Why does everything have to be a "troll" unless it conforms exactly with your views???
It doesn't, it was a rather daft statement trying to say that road safety is the same now as it was 20 years ago. It clearly isn't.
In many respects he's right.councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a (bad) accident waiting to happen
Whether its riding your bike, a task at work, or driving the car, its easy to become bored and not concentrate when the task at hand is well below your ability level (how many of us have had silly MTB crashes on trivial trail features?).
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Please for the sake of yourself and others you share the road with, go on a speed awareness course. Or if you've been on one, go again but this time listen. Things have changed somewhat over the last 20 years.
If there is a stretch of road that has had the speed limit reduced it is because people have died. And on these accident blackspot stretches of road where speed limits have been reduced it is proved to be an effective way to reduce the accident rate. So that sort of disproves your point of view about lower speed limits being introduced as an annoyance to road users - they are introduced very deliberately backed up with evidence to support them being changed.
Believe it or not, it is a major annoyance and a very costly exercise for councils to change the speed limit on any stretch of roads. It has to be approved by a bureaucratic process with evidence provided to support the proposed benefit of the speed limit change, then there are the costs of the signage and road markings that have to be changed. It's not something councils or road safety organisations do just for the sheer hell of it. But this is the sort of context you learn on a speed awareness course, which certainly was effective in making me change my behaviours when I got collared by a speed camera and attended a course.
newrobdob - Member
councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a[s](bad) accident waiting to happen[/s] massive bellend
FTFY
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stw-abusive-and-obnoxious-subculture
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start
My neighbour (and friend) is an IAM Advanced Driver...
He can't parallel park to save his life (we have to where we live), his car has parking dents all over it and I've been in with him when he's not even seen a mini roundabout and driven over it without slowing down. He's the scariest driver I know and I'll always offer to drive!
I once jumped a Ferrari F40 over the Thames. The Queen was so impressed she kicked Prince Philip right in the crackers. Bet councilof10 has never done that.
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
Anyone who isn't paying the most attention when 'pootling' through housing estates and past schools and shops, needs to have a word with themselves. That's the least relaxed I am in a car!
As for IAM, followed one through Ilkley in his big 4x4 yesterday. I think he should have handed his licence back about 10 years ago.
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
This is 100% right. I don't drive dangerously; I don't drive aggressively and I don't drive carelessly... I don't actually drive particularly fast most of the time, but I'm happy to ignore speed limits if it's safe to drive faster than them.
Ghah, speeding again.
20mph in anything built up and rip,out the speed bumps.. ta.
I'm more annoyed by truck drivers ignoring speed limits TBH. F'rrrrrinstance.. yesterday coming down the M1 into the 50mph zone during roadworks, and a steady stream of trucks sellotaped to my bumper whilst I'm doing 50mph..
Ya Boo Sucks to them, intimidating tossers.
And I don't think speeding is "casual" it's premeditated and conscious...
Speed? Whenever I drive these days I'm lucky to get to half the limit.
Okay, so when I drive at the weekends when it's a but quieter, I don't know why others speed, but if I had to say why I do.
Depends on where and when - outside a school or residential street, I doubt I'd hit the giggdy heights of 20, I spend more time looking where I'm going and not the speedo of course.
Motorway, unless it's busy my average cruise is between 80-90, why?
Driving at 70mph in Britain doesn't work, it just doesn't - doing 70 means puts you at odds with the middle lane mongs, the MLMs don't like to change lanes, it's scary and hard work so they sit in the middle doing just enough to try to justify their position so a little bit quicker than whatever's in lane 1.
If you try to drive as you should at 70 you'll alternate between 1 and 2 most of the time, our you'll try, with a clear lane 1 you'll move into it, the moment you do the snaking MLMs will get up to 72mph and sloooooooly glide past, with another one 'not quite a safe distance' behind, until you come up behind a truck. Which you won't be able to pass because you can't get into lane 2 MLMs *know* changing lanes is literally lethal so they'll block you.
It becomes a nasty game of 70 down to 56 wait for a safe gap, 70, lorry, 56, gap - it's inefficient, stressful and dangerous. If I'm going less than 30 mins on the MWay I'll set the cruise at 56 behind a lorry and enjoy a bit of 60mpg, it's not worth the stress to save less than 5 mins.
If I'm going further I set it about 85, I'll be lucky to visit lane 1 at that speed, but I'll try but mostly alternate between 2 and 3. It uses less fuel than trying to do 70 or being a MLM because it's a constant speed.
I do speed on occation in NSL roads (because it's fun) and sometimes in 40 zones if it's obvisouly quiet and I know the road well.
I don't seek to justify that, but if I did it's this - the speed limits haven't really changed since the 60s my current car steers and brakes so well despite being a boring old man’s diesel estate it would run rings around my old Golf GTi, honestly it would make mincemeat out of it on any track you fancy.
"Ah" they'll say, but there are other older cars on the road - so my limit is partly set for the benefit of Dave the Classic Car Nut who wants to drive is Morris Minor at the weekend, that's fine, but my car is safer than his.
"Ah" they'll say reaction times haven’t changed (which isn't actually true, modern life as made us all a little quicker to the draw than our parents and grandparents but that's not important) okay so the limits are in place for Charles the 83-year-old chap who still drives (good on you sir) but I'm young(ish) fit(ish) and years of trying to kill myself on bikes and playing COD has given me quick reactions and the ability not to panic in a crisis.
"Ah" they'll say, the roads are so busy no, there's so much less room than back then - but when there isn't...
Okay - so we've kept the limits of the 60s despite massive advances in car technology (honestly, drive a standard classic mini on cross-plys and you'd be crazy to get near the limits) because the roads are busier than they used to be and we still have to consider older vehicles and older drivers - so if it's quiet and you're not 83 then it *should* be safe to drive a bit quicker, or at least as safe as it was to drive at the limit say 20 years ago - fully aware that if I'm caught I'll be fined and possibly get points, it's a risk you have to accept - in the same way, camera these days are put where they're put for good reason, they're not mindless revenue grabbers so if you're caught by one, then you deserve it.
Been driving 20 years, had 3 points in all that time, probably speed most weeks.
FOr me its because speed limits seem to be set and changed arbitarily for no good reason and always to a lower speed limits. There are decent A roads near me that have been the national speed limit for the last 40 years. Now they are 50. They are going through the countryside not villages. Nothing has changed on the road except they resurfaced it so arguebly made it safer so why reduce the speed limit? There are dozens of examples of this round our way.
So my question would be not why are people speeding, but why are roads being restricted to slower speeds for no apparent reason
Only use mobile speed cameras and fixed [i]average[/i] speed cameras and paint them the same colour as the surroundings so you cant see them.
How many times do people need to be caught and fined before they stop?