[Closed] French cars

Yeah there are good models/years in every brand, but I think PSA are slightly less reliable on average, tbh.

1999 Peugeot 406 1.9dt here, 180k miles on the clock. Over the last 50k it needed a new alternator belt and a pump, an engine mount (underneath the gearbox - not fitted yet, it's been 2 years since I was told I should do it, but no time yet), regular services - filters and oil. I'll be buying a Civic or Celica next because I dislike small new Pugs. When I can afford a new-ish (post-2008) I'll get a 2.2 HDi 407 estate.

Okay, I admit it.

I LIKE FRENCH CARS. I THINK GERMAN CARS ARE A BIT.... OBVIOUS? BORING? WHATEVER....

There, said it now. Feel a bit better.

Mrs Chrissyboy has had 4 Peugeots - 2 * 206 1.4HDis, and is now on her 2nd 207 1.4HDi. Lovely to drive, she does around 15kpa, very economical.

She's had 2 problems in all this time. 1st 206 developed a problem with the indicator switch - fixed under warranty. 2nd 206 had a problem with the fuel pump after 3 years - fixed under warranty. No problems with the 207s AT ALL.

Got my latest French car at the start of November (company car). Renault Laguna 2.0dCi150 estate. Comes with integrated nav etc as standard. I got it with just over 4,000 miles on it - took it over from a colleague. It's now got 16,500 miles on it - not missed a beat.

I'm not sure it's any think to do with being French specifically.

Every Peugeot I've tried has been awful (and I've tried quite a few as my work hire agreement is with Peugeot).
Most of the Renaults I've driven have been fine though.

Peugeot 306, bought nearly new (9months old, 9k on the clock). Total repairs before 1st MOT at 3yrs old:
1 safety recall, 2 brake discs, 2 drums, 1 handbrake cable, pads all round (OK they're consumables so fair enough), 1 lambda sensor, 1 radio head unit, more light bulbs than I care to remember, including being pulled by the police for defective headlight the weekend after it was replaced by Pug main stealers in Bristol, erm... I'm sure there's more.

edit: oh forgot 1 battery that died overnight (and before anyone mentions it, all lights were off - double checked that)

Sold it 4 years old... with ECU warning light coming on... again! And a Squeaky wheel.

My old 306 XSi was the best car I've ever had, a great car to drive and never actually let me down and left me stranded in 5 years and 80 odd thousand miles.
But at the same time it was the worst car I ever had, with its endless niggly electrical problems - alarm going off uncontrollably, then not working at all, radio dying, airbag waring lights coming on despite no traceable fault etc. The best one was both sides indicators (i.e. hazards) coming on when indicating left or right 😯 again untraceable but intermittent.
In the end I said I'd never have another Peugeot and am now finding Fords a lot more reliable, now on my second Focus.

Ive had 5 Clios, Williams, Valver, 1.2 Clios, (best vfm) 309 GTI, 106 GTI, Citroen Xsara blah blah love them, me.

Nowt wrong with Frenchies. If you can afford Jap or German go for it.

But French is for winners.

Mange tout.

ive had 3 fords, 1 pug, 1 toyota and currently on a renault

the toyota wins hands down for reliability and build quality, followed by the renault, fords, and then the pug

Things like windows dropping bonnet catch not working and an accelerator cable breaking.

Sounds like my Bora estate. Plastic brackets on electric windows FTW!

In my entire life, counting family cars I grew up with, bangers I've owned whilst poor and decent cars I've bought, I've only broken down twice, and that was the same problem (although I never found out what it was) on a 1990 Passat 1.8 with about 150k miles on it (by 2004), cost me £150. And it only stopped working for about 10 mins then came back, so I wasn't stranded.

Always been Jap or German.

Had a '93 Clio for just over 10 years and now on a 7.5 year old Berlingo both from new. No problems with either and would buy French again - mind you total mileage is 90,000 since September 1993.

My current FRench fave....
[img] [/img]

My last 5 cars have been french (1 pug 4 citroen) all have been reliable.If people want to give them a bad name then that helps me when I buy them secondhand.Let the badge snobs buy their overpriced German cars

I've had a 106 Rallye, 106 GTi, 306GTi-6, 306 Rallye (x2) plus a Berlingo and Kangoo Vans over the years and now run a Renaultsport 200 Cup.

They really are dreadfully made, my 200 for example, brand new in September is already shaking itself to bits. It coughs and splutters on cold starts, the exhaust rattles on the diffuser, it pulls to the left, the brakes squeal, the wipers packed in after a few hundred miles only to start working again a couple of miles down the road. I could go on but you get the idea.

My mum had an old 205 for a good six years. NEVER had any mechanicals whatsoever. Great fun to drive, I actually "learned" to drive (rather than pass my test) in it. Handling was brilliant, out of all the cars I've driven, it's only just beaten by the MK4 Fiesta. Not the fastest machine in the world, but it did the speed limit and if you worked the gearbox it was faster than you'd think! Had to get rid of it in the end because all the parts were starting to go so the service/MOTs were getting too expensive (though to be fair it was pretty old, but it never broke down)

Damn I miss it!

It was later replaced with a Citroen Picasso. Nothing mechanically iffy about it. Engine was a bit underpowered and the steering's not that responsive, but Citroen suspension is some of the best out there IMO. Drive it like a hauler/tank and it's not too bad. Citroen also hoover up a lot of high NCAP safety ratings.

You do realise that a few stories of reliable individual motors do not mean the brand as a whole is statistically reliable - don't you?

As everyone probably knows, I've owned alot of cars.

I'd never come across an unreliable one until I bought two Subaru's.

Apparently Subaru's are 'bombproof'.

Yeah, so there are no stories of 2.5's headgasket, big end bearings etc huh?....

Used to be a big fan of Citroens with Hydropneumatic suspension. Lovely comfy ride. Had many BXs and Xantias. Like mcmoonter I had an eye on C6 prices to see when they dropped to almost nothing.

Now have a C5 2.0 HDi 90 - the WORST car I've ever driven. THe HDi 110s are OK but the 90 is hopeless, gutless and just plain awful.

When you throw in "quirky" features like having to remove the bumper to change the headlight bulb and taking off the entire door innards to change a wing mirror it soon grates.

molgrips - Member
You do realise that a few stories of reliable individual motors do not mean the brand as a whole is statistically reliable - don't you?

I had a 04 Nissan Micra, which (unbeknownst to me when I bought it) has a Renault engine and electronics.

A week before the 3 year warranty was up, it had a major engine failure. Nissan couldn't exactly diagnose what it was, so had to replace an entire section. If it had happened a week later, it would have cost me just under £700 minimum (over £900 if I'd had official Nissan parts).

In the first three years it was recalled three times for issues with the electrics, central locking and ignition. The boot kept on unlocking itself. The internal lights stopped working.

The EGR valve popped its clogs when the Micra reached the ripe old age of 4 years and had to be replaced.

The windscreen wiper rack broke after 4 years, needing to be completely replaced.

It went through 4 starter motors in 5 years - the first one was part of the block that got replaced just before the warranty expired, the following three were in the space of two weeks. Turned out there was an issue with the ignition barrel getting stuck internally (but not obviously so).

In five years it went through two sets of rear-wheel bearings. Not sure if that's normal or not, I swear I'm a sensible driver!

Bloody good fun to drive though, lovely handling and easy to park. Unlike our Vectra, which has so far proved to be a bastion of reliability but drives like a barge.

My mate has had 3 brand new Pug 207s and had a few problems with them - a few recalls, again, mostly electronic or with basic finishing issues (loose panels, stuff rattling around inside the door). It's not all bad though, my mom's got a V reg 207 and she's never had any problems with it other than the internal panelling being a bit cheap and coming lose, but she only does a max of 10 miles a week. My dad many a year ago had a P reg Pug estate, and that was a lovely car - never any problems with it at all, other than my brother's lack of spatial awareness causing it to lose its wing mirror twice. But on the whole, I'd never buy a French car again.

When you throw in "quirky" features like having to remove the bumper to change the headlight bulb and taking off the entire door innards to change a wing mirror it soon grates.

Ha ha, had a colleague with a Megane that had that problem, forgot about that...

When you throw in "quirky" features like having to remove the bumper to change the headlight bulb

To be fair I don't think this "interesting feature" is down to a single nationality of brand though - they all seem to be worse at this sort of thing than they used to be as more and more gets shoehorned in around increasingly stringent crash protection measures. My Fiat Stilo was like this and getting at the near side headlight bulbs required removing the battery...and the battery box and fusing....which required removing the offside wheel.....and the bumper 👿 I am now a geek when it comes to selecting cars and ask the sales type to demonstrate replacing the bulbs without removing his white shirt and tie. If he can't - instant fail and move on.

This sort of silly very un-user friendly design clashes rather badly with some of the continental laws I would imagine. In France you have to carry spare bulbs in the car at all times - **** all good if you can't swap them out at the side of the road! I wonder if you would still get fined for driving with a blown bulb if there was nothing the average driver could do about it until they got to a garage.

You do realise that few stories of ill-informed individual non-owners do not mean the brand as a whole is unreliable in real life, don't you?

But of course:

[img] [/img]

From an article about a Warrany Direct survey from 2010:

For the fifth year running, Honda topped the rankings as the most trustworthy car manufacturer. Of the 32 companies studied, Land Rover proved the least reliable company - 53% of its cars suffered a fault - followed by Alfa Romeo, [b]Renault[/b], Saab, MG, Vauxhall, [b]Peugeot[/b], Audi, Rover, BMW.

However, found this page which adjust for cost of repairs as well as probability, and puts PSA in the middle.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

I'd like to see that table "rationalised" for car value too. I would expect higher value vehicles made of higher value components to be more reliable than vehicles built to a tighter budget so every day cars such as Fords I would expect to see lower than say BMWs. You would expect to have components fail on you more frequently on a £99 Apollo mountain bike (term used loosely!) than on a £999 Trek.

pwnage

French cars up until about 5 years ago were prone to getting extremely rattly after a couple of years usage and electrics were of dubious quality.

Citroen have made great strides to improve quality of late.

That said; I'm lusting after a 2cv for the summer. I learnt to drive in one 20 years ago and would love to go back in time!!

I would expect higher value vehicles made of higher value components to be more reliable than vehicles built to a tighter budget so every day cars such as Fords I would expect to see lower than say BMWs.

Yeah but on the other hand, fancy cars are often a) more highly tuned and b) have more junk in them to go wrong in the first place.

Fortunately, the cheapness of a car is determined by the features/level of luxury, not its reliability. Some very reliable cheap cars out there because they are simply made.

Dammit grips, I hate our of scale charts. There you go, a more realistic looking Voss Manufacturer Index Ranking:

[img] [/img]

And you've neatly pointed out the fact that all modern cars are in reality pretty reliable 🙂

Hence my point way back about Citroens.

PS did you acually re-make that chart yourself? That's dedication 🙂

Yeah, I did -- I'm that anal. But it only took a few seconds.

Ive had 3 french cars over the years, the first was a 106 GTi, great little car, nothing went wrong with it at all. I had the car from new for 3 years, only problem i had was when i had an accident involving another driver his fault but the car died. Replaced it with a 206 xsi now that car i had numerous issues with this car had the engine cutting out fault normally on the motorway at 80ish mph just full cut out. In the end the car adopted a noise which no one could figure out the fault so i traded it for my current car.

So currently i have a C2 VTR its an 05 plate so 6 years old this year and its still running, its got approx 35k on the clock and still runs like new, yes some of the carpet has come away under the dash, but thats a recent thing, and the plastic bit under the steering wheel has never quite fitted properly but thats the charm. For me its a great little pocket rocket as the guys at work call it, 1.6ltr engine in a tiny little car, big enough for biking and does the job. TBH i have no need to change the car, plan on keeping it a few more years yet.

the engine cutting out fault normally on the motorway at 80ish mph just full cut out

A colleage had that. Frequently.

I've had a fair few French cars.
Renault Scenic 4x4. The coils kept going. The engine decided to fire on just two cylinders. Traded it in.
Other people I know have had a costly full rewiring job on a Peugeot 306 and my boss has just had the turbo blow on his Renault Scenic DCi.

That said - I never had serious problems with my 205, 306 and 206.

Probably, a bit of a lottery.

While I do know of some issues with french cars, I'd say generally those with the biggest scare stories have been those with the least understanding of cars and the least attention paid to required servicing due to having a low-budget car and having a low budget for repairs. If you know what to fix and you fix it when it first goes wrong it doesnt become a monster problem that takes out lots of other items or becomes very expensive. The higher value cars tend to get their services on time and at a good workshop because of the value "invested" in them and the owners cashflow, and when you consider the servicing costs on a 5 series BMW is higher than the cost of everything that's gone wrong on my two peugeots over 10 years put together....

I know of someone who bought a PSA vehicle who spotted a leak from their gearbox drain. Instead of fixing it they left it until the next service, shortly before the next service the gearbox ate itself and needed replacing (which the dealer charged them nearly £1000 for) and all they can do now is bitch and moan about how bad that brand of car is. Next thing you know another friend is telling me how the original friends gearbox just dropped apart and it's a bad design. 😯

No wonder cars get bad reputations with this sort of chinese whispers going on.

FWIW I had a 205 which had ball joints and CVs once in its life with me (5 years) and nothing else. My 306 has been with me from 90K to 140K so far and has had a track rod end, a pulley has just started to get a dicky washer motor after this winters abuse. Oh, and the back right caliper is seizing because someone has gubbed the piston bellows when winding the piston back for a pad change (not exactly the cars fault) so I've had to replace that but it's working fine now.

Renault Scenic 4x4. The coils kept going. The engine decided to fire on just two cylinders

Very common on almost all cars with coils mounted on the engine - it's a nutty design in many ways IMO. Audi regularly replaced their COP systems for owners due to repeated failures until they ruggedised them, but you don't hear much about that.

My dad owned Peugoets from roughly 2000 until last year, when he gave he his 407sw and bought a new seat. The funniest thing is that the seat has been back for warranty repairs due to the cabin flooding and both the peugeots he owned were faultless. Can't beat VAG for relibility eh?

And the 407 is far better built than the altea he replaced it with, so much better in fact that when I jokingly asked if he'd like to swap back he seriously considered it, although after being in the seat there's no way i'd swap!

Fwiw he's a mechanic, so all his cars get well looked after.

No wonder cars get bad reputations with this sort of chinese whispers going on.

Well, I'd suggest that it's things like there are now TWO people I know of first hand whose Peugots would randomly cut out when driving down the motorway. Pretty drastic, don't you think? And there's not really a lot you can do about it, unlike oil leaks or maintenence etc.

And the 407 is far better built than the altea he replaced it with

So why'd he buy it?

I would expect higher value vehicles made of higher value components to be more reliable than vehicles built to a tighter budget so every day cars such as Fords I would expect to see lower than say BMWs

So why'd he buy it?

Because another 407 was 7k more expensive new, and my mum had the purse strings at that point. She's since said that the extra 7k would've been worth it!

Over the past thirteen years I've had five French cars and to be honest, I can't fault them. The handling and ride quality has always been superb and while the interiors are very average, you get what you pay for.

I've had my current Saxo VTR from new and it's now over 8 years old with 122k on the clock (105k of that was done in the first 3.5 years). Touch wood I've had no major problems with it at all. By contrast the only non-French car I've had has been a Toyota MR2, which in the space of a couple of years had three gearboxes, two clutches and front callipers with a passion for binding at the slightest hint of winter!

The other nice thing about French cars for me has been running costs. Especially compared to the somewhat more pricey Toyota parts!!

Are French cars as bad as people say?

no...

ive had 106's and 306's and had no major problems, mind you the current batch of Pugs are the most putrid looking things on the planet.

Because another 407 was 7k more expensive new, and my mum had the purse strings at that point. She's since said that the extra 7k would've been worth it!

There are more cars around than Seat Alteas and Pug 407s. Shopping FAIL 🙂

On my third Renault now, I claim no brand loyalty though, it's just that I like GS and salesmen of the competitors have been complete tools.

What is most puzzling about these cars is there are many of parts in the car where you can see that someone has had a wonderful idea but then the design of said part is not fully completed and it's been probably been ruined in attempt of cost optimization anyway...
Mine have not been faultless, just quite expensive to run considering the initial purchase price.

True and as you see they are but toyota nissan skoda mazda and honda are all above average, they are everyday stuff rather than luxury (dunno about honda are they slightly more premium than the others?)

You ever tried buying parts for Toyotas? Getting a service done at a toyota place? Clutch change - £1200+parts. Water pump - 300. Cam belt kit £200. They've prices to match the "luxury" market. Nissan are similar. No idea about Skoda or Mazda to be fair. They are higher priced cars and with higher running costs, not in the same league as cheap runabouts that the PSA cars are IMO.

There are more cars around than Seat Alteas and Pug 407s. Shopping FAIL

Quiet, prius boy 😉

Servicing has always been cheap on our Prius. Never needed fixing 😉

...

(touch wood!)

You ever tried buying parts for Toyotas?