.The FIA may have decided to turn a blind eye to that part of scrutineering, as it wouldnt have looked good for the sport if the whole top 10 had have been DSQ.
Stroll, Albon, Gasly podium!
Reminded me of this https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/36263/lucky-gambler-wins-big-after-betting-on-a-gasly-sainz-stroll-podium-at-f1-italian-grand-prix
Perez also retaining his seat for the rest of the season:
Red Bull decides not to drop Perez mid-season - The Race (the-race.com)
I'm sure the conclusion was Riciardo/Lawson wouldnt have been much of a upgrade
Those Polaroids Checo keeps in a safe back home must be dynamite!!! 🙂
Odd decision. Tho according to Buxton, last year Perez scored 33% of Red Bull's points, this year it's 32%.
I’m sure the conclusion was Riciardo/Lawson wouldnt have been much of a upgrade
I think you're right. There's more street circuits coming up (Baku and Singapore), and Perez traditionally does well, but he's certainly costing the team points at each race currently. I guess they decided that changing would probably cost them even more.
Extremely harsh on George Russell, but rules are rules. The way Russell gambled on the hard tyres, then managed them so well, was Button-esque. One of Hamilton's weaknesses is that he's never been great on tyre management. Hamilton would not have won with such a strategy, so well done GR.
I think one clear fact merging now is that the Red Bull isn't as great as it was last year, and that currently it's perhaps the 3rd or even only 4th fastest car on the grid. Perez is pretty much on a level with most other drivers, truth be told, yet can't get the performance out of the car that Max can. Max is just on another level from everyone. I don't believe anyone, except perhaps Alonso in his prime, could get anything like the performance from the current Red Bull car that Max can. Must be very galling for Perez, but stick anyone else, say Norris, LeClerc or even Hamilton, in that car right now, and they'd be struggling. That's the difference.
Great to see the other teams catching up and overtaking Red Bull in terms of car performance though; second half of the season should be a lot of fun. That's not something that could be said of the last few years.
Sod the points, I'd be worried for the reputational damage it's doing. Both, employing a very average driver and not having the balls to sack him. Redbull don't need the point money and who would do worse? My guess is that it's a Max thing and they don't want to upset him with a quick no 2.
One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.
Really? It’s one thing that’s frequently cited as one of his strengths—and there have been plenty of races where he’s outdone Russell and Bottas on that front. (No, don’t ask me to name them, though Silverstone this year is one example that’s recent enough for me to recall.)
but stick anyone else, say Norris, LeClerc or even Hamilton, in that car right now, and they’d be struggling. That’s the difference.
But that's also function of how Max both likes is car set up (very very pointy) and how the team has focussed development of the car to enable him to get the best from it. Put Max in a car that's set up for Hamilton or Alonso and he'd struggle as much as they would in his car.
Hamilton would not have won with such a strategy, so well done GR.
Hamilton wanted that strategy before the race. The team said to both drive - 'no it's a two-stop'.
Hamilton still thought it was a two stop until it became clear it wasn't and GR had gone his own way - which the team failed to tell Hamilton about in the race or he'd have adjusted his pace accordingly. He was managing to Piastri/Leclerc. This is why he was so pissed-off after the race.
And to say he's no good with tyre management is laughable.
Really? It’s one thing that’s frequently cited as one of his strengths
He was always poorer on tyre management than other drivers. His driving style is hard on tyres. Jenson Button, on the other hand, was always very good on tyre management. Button outpointed Hamilton over three seasons during their time together at McLaren, let's not forget. Button was also phenomenal in varying conditions. Hamilton ultimately the better driver overall, but only by a sight margin.
But that’s also function of how Max both likes is car set up (very very pointy) and how the team has focussed development of the car to enable him to get the best from it. Put Max in a car that’s set up for Hamilton or Alonso and he’d struggle as much as they would in his car.
Max has won a WC in an inferior car (2021 Red Bull; the Merc was the best car that season). Max has won races in inferior cars several times. Alonso also won races in relatively poor cars. It's Hamilton who really struggles if the car isn't 100% to his liking. Truth is that teams don't actually set up cars for just one driver; that Max performs better in the same equipment is down to Max far more than it is the car. Perez was winning races when the Red Bull was significantly better than the other cars; now, he's struggling in the middle order far more, whilst Max is still right up at the sharp end of things.
One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.
Some of his greatest wins have come from tyre management. That was one of the reasons he consistently thrashed Bottas.
Truth is that teams don’t actually set up cars for just one driver;
Try telling that to Schumachers team mates! 🙂
And welcome new member (or old member under new name!).
Max has won a WC in an inferior car (2021 Red Bull; the Merc was the best car that season).
But only becasue of Michael Masi inventing the rules as he went along. Had Lafiti not crashed, or Masi applied the rules correctly it would've been Hamilton's 8th title. Max won 9 races and Hamilton 8, (Max's 9th being the controversial decider) I don't think that points to either car being demonstrably better or worse than the other.
Truth is that teams don’t actually set up cars for just one driver;
No, they develop the car to go as fast as it can, it that development cycle suits the driving style of either driver, well that's how it goes, but to suggest that the team don't listen to Max when he asks for particular characteristics, is a bit naïve
He was always poorer on tyre management than other drivers. His driving style is hard on tyres.
You’ve been watching a different Hamilton to me. His radio style is hard on tyres maybe 😉
Danny Ric confirmed secure for rest of season too - Red Bull is going soft!!! 🙂
One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.
wasnt this one of the things that got said aaaaaages ago by people that just didnt like him and were running out of things to criticise him for?
Sergio Perez to stay at Red Bull after the Summer break.
the Kompromat he has on either Horner or Marko must be quite something.
I think that lass who was recieving the dirty texts from Whinger Spice may have been Checo in drag.
.
Also, anyone know what Ottmar Snaufzaur (sp?) is on about with the new American team? He was a bit vague other than it's not Andretti.
To be fair I think Checo is still on a shoogly peg. They've just kicked the can down the road. There is an "Autumn Break" this year in the race schedule and the four races coming up are track where Checo has historically performed well.
If he doesn't perform I think he'll be out the door before Texas
A bit vague that Ottmar thing - the only other people in US racing with the resources to run in F1 is Penske.
The Twitterati seem to think Liberty Media are behind Checo staying this season to avoid a financial fall-out from the Mexican GP if he's not there. Seems it suprised Max and Jos that he'd be back at the Dutch GP.
The issue is, who would replace Perez? Nobody is currently available that would be any better, and Perez has at least got race winning experience. The Red Bull car isn't currently great, it's only Max's ability that's flattering it right now. In my opinion, only Hamilton or Alonso could give Max a run for his money, and they're contracted elsewhere.
The question for me is what they are going to do with Lawson. They promised him a drive for next year which basically means that either Ricciardo or Perez must go. The talk was that they would put Lawson in a RB seat for the second half of the season (let's face it, if they're going to boot either DR or Perez, they might as well do it early and let Lawson get some seat time.) But now they've extended both DR and Perez so it looks to me like they are keeping DR as a fall-back in case Perez doesn't improve. But then if both drivers really lift their games in the second half of the season, they will still need to sack one of them to make way for Lawson.
Lawson, Tsunoda and Ricciardo should be having talks with Audi - there's obviously no long term future with Red Bull for them. Unless Max moves to Mercedes of course! 🙂
The issue is, who would replace Perez?
Take your pick of Lawson, Tsunoda, and Riccardo, whether they'd be any better is probably the question Marko and Horner were deliberating. That they've chosen to do nothing suggests to me at lest that they tacitly given up on retaining the constructors and are hoping that Max can keep in the pointy end of races enough to secure him the drivers champs.
Red Bull just seem to be risking implosion on several fronts.
There’s a real problem looming that Mercedes are now winning multiple races on merit, and they’ve also got shorter odds than RBPT for nailing the 2026 PUs. So there’s a seat up for grabs which was already hot for 2026 but is now looking very appealing for 2025. A couple of months ago it would have looked like a big gamble for Max to consider Mercedes… right now, not so much. Any (more) lack of confidence with RB management or the team is only going to be pushing towards a tipping point. I think it’s quite feasible he could move.
If that happens, suddenly they’ve got four drivers all of whom aren’t entirely convincing candidates for the top team—certainly none which could hold a candle to Max in a Merc, Hamilton in a Ferrari or either of the McLaren drivers. Overnight they’d be relegated to scrapping with Aston Martin for the bottom end of the points.
Red Bull will also need to place Hadjar (current F2 champ leader) somewhere - can't see him wanting to spend a third season in F2.
andrewhFree Member
I think that lass who was recieving the dirty texts from Whinger Spice may have been Checo in drag..
Also, anyone know what Ottmar Snaufzaur (sp?) is on about with the new American team? He was a bit vague other than it’s not Andretti.
No it's a bit odd. If Liberty determined already that Andretti & GM/Cadillac won't "add value" then who would?
Won't be Ford I assume, as they have the RB engine deal already in place.
Getting a bit fed up of what's happening to the sport though. 3 US races, 4 desert races, yet it's Spa/Zandvoort they want to share a fixture. shrug.jpg
He won't be allowed to do another season if wins F2.
There's also Sainz's clause with Williams if Max does leave to go to Merc, he would be their best replacement. (Would Sainz want to? For 25 probably, but for 26 onwards?) Then they've still got Checo, DR, Tsunoda, Lawson and Hadjar to fit into the other three seats
...now then - Penske race with Porsche customer cars in WEC.
Porsche wanted to come into F1 but it fell flat...
#f1rumourstarted!
As well as the serious risk of losing the constructor's championship, Red Bull have a question of getting their developmental priorities sorted for 2025 and 2026. Being the championship leaders means they have less wind tunnel time, etc. so trying to develop this year's car will reduce the work they can put towards next year's. Merc and McLaren seem to have fundamentally better cars now, so Red Bull are facing a huge job to catch them up for next year and also to start developing their 2026 car (which I think they can start work on in January next year). So, Max is facing the prospect of Red Bull either sacrificing next year to focus on 2026 or focusing on developing a car for next year but being behind in 2026. A few months back, I thought the idea of him leaving Red Bull was about as silly as people saying Hamilton would go to Ferrari, but he must be looking at how much the Merc has improved and worrying about Red Bull's future.
Won’t be Ford I assume, as they have the RB engine deal already in place.
Ford have priors in this area... oddly with the very team they are about to supply engines for
"the Kompromat he has on either Horner or Marko must be quite something."
Apparently Liberty Media would rather like to have some bums on seats at the Mexican GP so they have stepped in.
Max is currently very lucky that there are not one but six other high-performing drivers armed with genuinely race-winning cars (well, four at least—depends what sort of weekend Ferrari are having), so none of them are scoring consistently enough to seriously threaten the buffer he built up at the start of the season. In fact the driver closest on points is arguably the one making the most mistakes. If Hamilton had Lando’s points tally then things might—just—look more intriguing. But what it does mean is that 2025 is going to be down to marginal differences in the performance of car, driver and team. Max has the driver bit covered, Red Bull generally get the strategy right, but if you had to pick the best package of team/strategy and car, I think the pendulum is back with Mercedes.
"I think the pendulum is back with Mercedes."
Except they'll be losing the best tool in their toolbox - Hamilton. McLaren will have the stability next year, they could be the ones to watch.
There’s also Sainz’s clause with Williams
Which doesn't exist according to James Vowles.
Except they’ll be losing the best tool in their toolbox – Hamilton. McLaren will have the stability next year, they could be the ones to watch.
But I was looking at things from Max’s point of view, where the factor of the driver is irrelevant: it’s Max. Losing Hamilton is hardly a problem for a team looking to hire Verstappen 🙂 They still have Wolff, Shovlin and Allison at the top—there’s no stability problem at Merc.
A driver wants the best car (including development) and the best setup and race strategy. Currently I think the best sum total of those attributes lies with Mercedes. McLaren have the best car right now and will undoubtedly be strong on that front in 2025 but they have a lot of work to do as far as the pit wall is concerned. Mercedes have both the sound decision making that put Hamilton where he was in Spa and the willingness to go bold that put Russell where he was. Sure, the minimum weight violation was a dropped bollock, but that’s quite the outlier: fundamentally they have proven for years that they’re good at knowing when to take a driver’s lead and when to overrule them. Whereas McLaren have had several unconvincing races this year where they’ve failed to balance those things correctly, among other failings.
Mercedes seem to have Driver Intentions rather than Driver Rules. Personally I think this is a good thing as it encourages stability but allows some personal freedom.
McClaren seem to have been caught by surprise by having the best car and are playing catch up on strategy and race scenarios.
Ferrari seem to use alphabet soup and a leaking spoon to plan their strategy.
Red Bull appear to be, well, Red Bull but without the best car anymore.
Toto has just been playing with RedBull around a potential Max move.
All of the top teams in recent memory have been focused around a single driver. Either Ayrton at McLaren, Michael at Ferrari or Lewis at Mercedes, and Max currently enjoys that position at RB.
If Max was to move he would have to fit in with an existing team and have accept all of the compromises, that that involves (strong teammates, Jos's ego be reigned in)
Toto seems to be putting his eggs in the Antonelli basket
It does make me laugh that everyone is surprised that Redbull and Vcarblowfatcreditcardcashapp whatever its called are keeping Perez and Danny till the end of the season, everyone used to moan when Redbull swapped drivers mid season and now they arent swapping drivers mid season people are still complaining
Maybe they have realised its not good for the drivers and its not a good look for the team
Personally i think its time Danny left F1, he's driven for quite a few teams (Toro Rosso/Vcarbwhatsitcalled twice) and since leaving Redbull has never got his mojo back
HRT (debut drive, RB/Toro Rosso done a deal as he was their test driver)
Toro Rosso
RedBull
Renault
Mclaren
Vcarb whastitsname (Toro Rosso)
He's become one of the drivers who are just filling places and not actually progressing
Perez deserves one more chance in another team, i would of said Williams but thats prob not going to happen with Sainz going there
What i would like to know is why Redbull have no interest in Tusnoda, he is never mentioned about for the Redbull seat, it cant be about his ability as he is better than Perez and Danny most of the time, im wondering if there is something else they dont like about him
What i would like to know is why Redbull have no interest in Tusnoda
Hes just part of the Honda deal
What i would like to know is why Redbull have no interest in Tusnoda
I think they think he's too erratic. On a good day, he's fast but he had a history of overdriving and crashing when he started out. I think he's matured a lot since then but Red Bull just don't seem to trust him not to bin it under pressure.
There was talk of Tsunoda going to Aston when they take the Honda engines in 2026, but that seems to have gone quiet. Not sure he'd even match Stroll though.
On the Aston front - both their drivers need to go. Stroll is mediocre at best and Alonso is treading water and seat hogging. He's certainly built a long career on the back of two early World Championships.
everyone used to moan when Redbull swapped drivers mid season and now they arent swapping drivers mid season people are still complaining
They were swapping one young driver for another young driver. Not hanging on to two at the end of their careers.
It seemed brutal at the time but to be fair to Red Bull a lot of their rejected young F1 drivers are still Red Bull drivers but in different series. The driver development program is for all their motorsport interests not just F1.
On the Aston front – both their drivers need to go. Stroll is mediocre at best and Alonso is treading water and seat hogging. He’s certainly built a long career on the back of two early World Championships.
I think Fred's still got it personally, but the car is not great - if you watch the onboards it often looks a right handful. I think if he was in the Merc, Mc or RB he'd be fighting to win races (IMHO). The question is how long he can retain fitness/form I guess.
Stroll is cack though. And a dickhead to boot. Waste of a seat.
Regarding the car, they have a new wind tunnel + simulator, so hopefully they'll make some gains soon.
im wondering if there is something else they dont like about him
Marko likes him, Karen doesn't (I don't know the reasons why for either) but Tsunoda is probably just a victim of internal RB politics as much as anything he's done on track.
Alonso is treading water and seat hogging.
I think he's still driving really well but the car just isn't a contender. I think Stroll is underrated too - he's not a world beater, but he's not the hopeless pay driver that his critics make him out to be. The car just isn't a front runner any more.
What i would like to know is why Redbull have no interest in Tusnoda, he is never mentioned about for the Redbull seat,
He can't reach the pedals from the seat
All of the top teams in recent memory have been focused around a single driver. Either Ayrton at McLaren, Michael at Ferrari or Lewis at Mercedes, and Max currently enjoys that position at RB.
Mercedes didn’t seem to favour Hamilton over Rosberg. Nor even Bottas at first, it’s just that Hamilton was markedly better.
McLaren in particular have plenty of history of having two top drivers and letting them slug it out for race wins: Hamilton and Button, Hamilton and Alonso, Senna and Prost, Prost and Lauda…
Most of the seasons that look like teams favouring one driver aren’t a product of teams focusing on one driver, they’ve generally come about by one driver simply getting better results, at which point it’s only natural that they get preferential race strategies and get listened to a little more in terms of car development. But Schumacher at Ferrari was unprecedented in the modern era in terms of actually building a team around one driver and only Verstappen has come close to that.
McLaren in particular have plenty of history of having two top drivers and letting them slug it out for race wins: Hamilton and Button, Hamilton and Alonso, Senna and Prost, Prost and Lauda…
All of those are as relevant to today's McLaren team as the Honda F1 team is to Merc. The team might have been called McLaren back then but there's hardly anyone left in a senior position from those days. The current McLaren team are still learning how to win regularly and finding that it's actually really difficult to get everything right every race. That's compounded by having several close competitors who may be a smidge slower on paper but have way more (current) experience at the front of the grid. It's nice to have some proper competition and uncertainty in F1 again.
Alonso thought he was defacto No.1 at McLaren until that pesky rookie turned up!! 🙂
they have a new wind tunnel + simulator
Not online yet
and only Verstappen has come close to that.
Thing that surprises me, is that RB had what? 3 years to actually sort this out now. They knew the car was strong enough to let a driver like Verstappen disappear over the horizon, so that's 3 years to get the no.2 driver (who ever that ended up being) and the car to be the best combo they can while they figured that in the meantime else everyone would eventually catch up, and by year 3 they'd have two really good drivers in a car that's now average.
I'm surprised Red Bull haven't changed Sergio Perez for Valtteri Bottas, who is also experienced enough to handle the volatile dynamics of the team and has a proven track record of being a very reliable number two and regularly bringing in a valuable points score while at Mercedes
Alonso thought he was defacto No.1 at McLaren
I suspect Alonso has thought he’s de facto number 1 at every team he’s ever signed for 🙂
Rumours that liberty want checo in the seat fearing a drop in mexico ticket sales.
Stinks, that does
What have liberty promised RB in return...?
...to shield Horny Horner's harassment case from the media maybe?
There were rumours of a Ferrari-style 'cease & desist' order mentioned a couple of pages back for an unspecified technical infringement. Maybe no further action on that? Or would that be an FIA decision rather than a Liberty one?
There were rumours of a Ferrari-style ‘cease & desist’ order mentioned a couple of pages back for an unspecified technical infringement. Maybe no further action on that?
If there was, we won't hear about it for many years, if ever. The giveaway would be if there was a clarification of technical regulations and one team suddenly dropped off the pace. Red Bull's struggles seem more to do with Merc and McLaren improving rather than Red Bull suddenly going slower.
thols2
Red Bull’s struggles seem more to do with Merc and McLaren improving rather than Red Bull suddenly going slower.
Mclaren and Merc have both improved, Red Bull were actually slower at some races this year than last year.
This is the data for Hungary courtesy of @FDataAnalysis on The Site Formerly Known As Twitter
That data is from Hungary, it's not across the complete season. You can't read anything into the data from a single race.
[i]You can’t read anything into the data from a single race.[/i]
[pedant mode]
Actually you can read an enormous amount into the data from a single race, however you cannot use data from a single race to give a trend or a valid comparison for this season against last season.
[/pedant]
[/pedant]
I think you meant [/pedant mode]
And another senior member of staff leaves Red Bull!...
I'm confused.....I thought Binotti was going to be team principal?
(At this rate Red Bull Racing might become Rich Energy Racing!)
Binotto is COO and CTO (chief operating officer and chief technical officer) - No, I don't know the difference either.
[i]
Audi is currently undergoing a change in management structure, as CEO Andreas Seidl and chief representative Oliver Hoffmann were both relieved of their duties in preparing the manufacturer's entry into F1.
Ex-Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto thus assumed the roles of chief operating officer and chief technical officer this week, with one of his first ports of call being to decide the identity of the team's second driver alongside Nico Hulkenberg. The team's number one target, Carlos Sainz, was signed by Williams on Monday as he rejected offers from Audi and Alpine.
Wheatley will thus report to Binotto when he assumes the team principal role at the Hinwil team, while the future of current team representative Alessandro Alunni Bravi remains unknown.[/i]
What a mess they seem to be in
That's probably why Sainz chose Williams.
Reports of Doohen for Alpine next year
"The giveaway would be if there was a clarification of technical regulations and one team suddenly dropped off the pace."
Well the first part of that happened yesterday with the introduction of some new regulations around brake force distribution. Hmmm....
https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-sign-off-f1-regulation-changes-2024-wmsc https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-sign-off-f1-regulation-changes-2024-wmsc <
From the link above:
FIA confirms technical regulation update
An intriguing change made on the technical side has been to Article 11.1.2, related to braking systems.“The brake system must be designed so that within each circuit, the forces applied to the brake pads are the same magnitude and act as opposing pairs on a given brake disc,” says the unchanged text before the new wording is confirmed with the following sentence: “Any system or mechanism which can produce systematically or intentionally, asymmetric braking torques for a given axle is forbidden.”
This tightening of the wording doesn’t suggest a team has already engaged such a system, but the governing body has spotted a potential loophole in the wording of the regulation.
This may have been due to an audit of its own rules, or could have been pointed out by a team that may have spotted a grey area in the regulations and sought clarification.
I fail to see what benefit that would bring and I doubt that any benefit would be of the magnitude of the advantage Red Bull had before McLaren and Merc brought upgrades to their cars. Red Bull's problem seems to be the interaction of the aero and the suspension, McLaren and Mercedes seem to have both made big steps forward in that area.
I fail to see what benefit that would bring
Dunno - as well as front to back driver controlled brake balance changes, perhaps left to right balance changes as well? Helpful on twisty circuits to pull the car into corners?
Or steering activated? The more lock you put on the more braking goes to that side of the car?