[Closed] Fined for spitting

Be careful out there everyone.

Or don't gob in the street.

I understand there might have been extenuating circumstances with your friend, but it's a nasty habit which seems to be on the rise.

Any law against nasal snot rockets? I may have racked up a few hundred quid in potential fines on my way in to work this morning/

Well, I wouldn't hawk up on the pavement, that's a bit grim, but it's not really in the same league as dog mess, is it?

I just stood there [s]gawping[/s] gobbing in amazement.

This would have been funnier.

If you are pregnant, can you ask to gob in a policeman's hat?

Bit of a difference between lauching a snot rocket into the verge mid ride and hacking up a greenie in the doorway of Sainsbury's

Interested whether they have any powers to detain him while they wait for the coppers?

nude ride

That is covered by different public order legislation, I think.

EDIT: You're quicker on the edit than me!

There was a very easy solution to this problem.

Swallow the greenie ... he wouldnt have got done for splitting and had a nutritional snack .... Win win

Bit of a difference between lauching a snot rocket into the verge nude ride and hacking up a greenie in the doorway of Sainsbury's

In that case though isn't it up to Sainsbury's to enforce?

Agreed, I wouldn't gob on the street in a town. I find it abhorrent. Unfortunately it always seems to be a cool thing to do for kids who like footballing and that saddens me.

Box of hankies is around £1.

Agreed, I wouldn't gob on the street in a town. I find it abhorrent. Unfortunately it always seems to be a cool thing to do for kids who like footballing and that saddens me.

For me, it seems to be the bailiwick of the ethnics.

a cool thing to do for kids

's not 🙂

Interested whether they have any powers to detain him while they wait for the coppers?

They don't have the power to detain as they are effectively council employees. A lot of councils contract it out so they aren't even council employees.

what he refuses to pay and asks for evidence?

I've just asked him, Sainsbury's door is straight onto the pavement, he spat it between the bin and the wall just round the corner.
We've all done it.

Why didn't he just spit in the bin?

Interested whether they have any powers to detain him while they wait for the coppers?

They've almost certainly not got the power to demand he prove his identity. The police don't have that power even, unless they're formally detaining him. Which I suppose they could do, but I can't imagine they'd want the paperwork for someone who's essentially just sneezed.

Reckon my response would have been "arrest me or foxtrot oscar" and a note of their badge numbers.

Ewe, your "colleague" is gross.

Hope they made "him" clean it up.

We've all done it.

My wife was sick in the street half an hour ago. Good thing she was nowhere near Sainsbury's.

No more speeding fine folks, we've all done it.

IIRC (probably not though) is the fining for spitting in the street come from trying to prevent the spread of TB back in the day ?

My wife was sick in the street half an hour ago. Good thing she was nowhere near Sainsbury's.

1. I hope she's ok, and 2. I think that's a bit different. She is obviously unwell, and not even a giant hanky would have helped.

Why didn't he just spit in the bin?

Point missed.
Yes he knows he did a bad thing but what a jeffing waste of police time and resources. That's the point.
As I said to the cops who came, I could have some fun and get done for 90mph on the way home for not much more. How do people like this sleep at night?
I'm honestly amazed. I didn't even know these people existed.

Hope he coughed all over them.

Nothing turns my stomach more than spotting a big green pile of phleg on the pavement.

Couldn't you just let it dribble down your chin and shake your head to flick it off? Like a saint bernard dog! Technically that wouldn't be spitting. maybe.

Yep, zero sympathy, he deserves to be fined for a disgusting and anti-social habit.

He coughed on his way out and spat on the floor.

That's disgusting, specially if it's discoloured green or yellow infected phlegm. And all the more so if it's done near the entrance of a supermarket.

he's got a bit of a cough/cold

So then he almost certainly had a hankie which he could have spat into.

Apart from the deeply unpleasant sight of infected phlegm spat outside a retail food outlet can you imagine if a small child accidentally touches it as the result of a tumble or such like?

It's hardly surprising that it's illegal.

Point missed.

Bin as well 😉

Is there a scale of fines for this?

I'm tempted to go and wipe a bogey on the wall outside the local Police Station just to see what happens.

Spat on the floor, of a shop ? Or do you mean the ground outside ?

OK, whilst I have zero sympathy for the cretin who got a fine, I am a little confused as to whom these people were. Surely they identified themselves a bit - and what is this 'system'? Is this the start of a privatised police force? Off the the Jeremy Corbyn thread....

I have a friend who is environmental and antisocial behaviour enforcement officer for a Scottish council (ergo, our laws may differ some).
Yes you do *have* to give him details if he so requests them with reasonable reason.
Yes the police will help re-enforce his work.
Yes he does have body cam on.
I just texted him about this - he said he has more important things to worry about on the job...likely would have asked you to refrain from hockling up.

I think the key thing here is where exactly did he spit "on the floor"

I wouldn't give my details to any "enforcement officer". I'd be tempted to go to court for this assuming he didn't spit inside the store or on the pavement immediately outside, I think it unlikley it would be pursued. Not good PR for Sainsbury's

I have a friend who is environmental and antisocial behaviour enforcement officer for a Scottish council

he said he has more important things to worry about on the job...

I can well believe that 😉

I think it unlikley it would be pursued. Not good PR for Sainsbury's

Yeah. They need to keep hold of that all important 'gobbing on the floor vote'.

He deserved the fine, the grotty git.

In the London Borough I live it was passed as a by law some year or two ago. Enforcement officers are there and have the power to enforce local government legislation. They would have tried to obtain his identity so they could send the fine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23429849

And disgusting +1.

Jamie I imagine the OP's mate would go for the "i was really sick with manflu and went to Sainsbury's for some medicine. I couldn't help myself and sneezed/coughed heavily"

I'm amazed that everyone's concentrating on the spitting part of this story (yes, it's grim), rather than the fact that there's basically hired goons patrolling around demanding details and dishing out fines. Amazed.

Just get sodding ID cards and be done with all this crap.
What a ridiculous situation where you can't quietly gob on the street. Sort out fag ends, chewing gum, litter, noise pollution, light pollution, dog crap and pavement parking before spitting.
Pillocks!

I'm amazed that everyone's concentrating on the spitting part of this story (yes, it's grim), rather than the fact that there's basically hired goons patrolling around demanding details and dishing out fines. Amazed.

If the goons are stopping people spitting on the street....well....

[img] [/img]

Sort out fag ends, chewing gum, litter, noise pollution, light pollution, dog crap and pavement parking before spitting.
Pillocks!

What he said!

Yes how dare goons stop antisocial behaviour.

IIRC (probably not though) is the fining for spitting in the street come from trying to prevent the spread of TB back in the day ?

Don't get the spitting in the street. Basically he couldn't be arsed to put it in a tissue and throw it in the bin, or even spit it in the bin. Common decency, like common sense, doesn't seem that common any more.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

Hired Goons?

Sort out fag ends, chewing gum, litter, noise pollution, light pollution, dog crap and pavement parking before spitting.

How do you know said goons aren't also prosecuting people for those things too?

Good. Filthy habit, especially in in town.

How do you know said goons aren't also prosecuting people for those things too?

jambalaya - Member

I couldn't help myself and sneezed/coughed heavily

Do you think he has that problem when he's at home watching telly - he just gobs yellow phlegm on his carpet, because he just "can't help himself"?

Good. Filthy habit, especially in in town.

Because I still see loads of fag ends, chewing gum, litter

Maybe the goons have not yet been hired in your area?

Someone has taken a stand, in one area, and I'd bet they are prosecuting all these things. So you don't have much to complain about other than the fact they are NOT doing it in your area.

First they came for the fag butts, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a smoker.

Then they came for the chewing gum, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Sir Alex Ferguson.

Then they came for the litter, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a ****.

Then they came for the gob, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a PeterPoddy.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Maybe they are prosecuting these too so either they're not working hard enough or are wasting money because the prosecutions aren't effective.

Well in this case the fine seems to have been very effective - Mr Poddy has come here to warn potentially hundreds of people of the possible consequences of gobbing phlegm near a shop doorway.

PeterPoddy - Member

£80 fine......
Be careful out there everyone.

Posted 1 hour ago

olddog - Member
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

That's an interesting read. Not least because nowhere does it mention spitting being an enforceable offence. Nor here,

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fixed-penalty-notices-issuing-and-enforcement-by-councils

So much else questionable.

Presumably "the system" is the DVLA database and they've accessed it in a way not covered by those guidelines?

Assuming it's akin to littering then they've issued a maximum fine rather than the default.

They're supposed to give you an opportunity to pick up litter. Why didn't they ask him to wipe it up?

They're not supposed to issue FPNs for trivial offences.

They're not supposed to issue FPNs when there's no evidence in case of failure to pay.

They have to make enforcement details publicly available, including details of what's considered an offence. Have they? Who are they issuing fines on behalf of?

They're supposed to give you an opportunity to pick up litter. Why didn't they ask him to wipe it up?

Maybe they did? We need to get the hired goon's side of things.

And they pursued him into Sainsbury's without asking the landowner's permission...

Given they have absolutely no powers to detain you, I think I'd have wandered off before they had the chance to call the coppers. Then again, I wouldn't have gobbed one up on the pavement, but you do hear of cases where they've fined people when things have fallen out of their pockets.

That's an interesting read. Not least because nowhere does it mention spitting being an enforceable offence. Nor here,

I guess that Iist isn't exhaustive.

And they pursued him into Sainsbury's without asking the landowner's permission...

No they didn't.

Given they have absolutely no powers to detain you,

Yes they do.

martinhutch - Member
Given they have absolutely no powers to detain you,

And your actual local antisocial scrote knows this all too well - laughing at them and calling them 'Power Rangers', thus are usually left alone when there's easier pickings with students and old people.

Goons

They're supposed to give you an opportunity to pick up litter. Why didn't they ask him to wipe it up?

I think that opportunity to pick it up is just in case you dropped the litter by accident or didn't know it'd dropped out your pocket etc.

Flobbing on the floor is pretty much a deliberate act

nowhere does it mention spitting being an enforceable offence

It does, it mentions "littering". Waltham Forest Council established a landmark legal ruling 3 years ago that spit/phlegm is the same as litter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10332490/People-who-spit-in-public-face-prosecution-after-landmark-legal-ruling.html

iirc PeterPoddy works in a bike shop - I'm assuming that the 'perp' was working in that shop, so they followed [s]Peter[/s] him back to that shop, not into sainsburys

They have said "goons" in Glasgow, in fact they have done for years. Basically there to tackle antisocial behaviour whilst the police get on with catching "real criminals". It may not be on the statute books but it could well be a local bye-law.

As for spitting itself, its been illegal in Hong Kong for at least the 25odd years since I first went. When you see how the likes of SARS ran through the place and killed so many people you can see why those in charge took it so seriously. It's a public health issue, maybe if more people had consideration for what they are hacking up and how they deal with it there would be less rampant outbreaks. People in this country are by and large disgusting creatures, you only need to look at the amount of phlegm and chewing gum on our streets to prove that.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Accredited-persons-and-powers/1400016117624/1400016117624

We're not talking about PCSOs here. Local authority enforcement agents have power to detain whatsoever (above and beyond citizen's arrest level).

iirc PeterPoddy works in a bike shop - I'm assuming that the 'perp' was working in that shop, so they followed Peter him back to that shop, not into sainsburys

Aha - they should have brought some biscuits with them to help things along.

easier pickings with students and old people.

What oddly disparate examples.

Hired Goon 1: Who shall we harass today, Barry?
Hired Goon 2: Well, Garry, I think we should go for the low hanging fruit!
Hired Goon 1: Students and OAPs it is then!

[quote=tinybits ]iirc PeterPoddy works in a bike shop - I'm assuming that the 'perp' was working in that shop, so they followed Peter him back to that shop, not into sainsburys
Ta. That makes more sense.

I think that opportunity to pick it up is just in case you dropped the litter by accident or didn't know it'd dropped out your pocket etc.

No, that's covered specifically elsewhere.

It does, it mentions "littering". Waltham Forest Council established a landmark legal ruling 3 years ago that spit/phlegm is the same as litter.

Ah, I didn't know that. Ta.

Oh yeah marched into the bike shop.

Sounds like he'll get away with it if he appeals. Then he can buy some hankies.

Jamie - Member
What oddly disparate examples.

Not really. Could've said Deep-Sea Divers and District Nurses.

iirc PeterPoddy works in a bike shop - I'm assuming that the 'perp' was working in that shop, so they followed Peter him back to that shop, not into sainsburys

Did they issue the FPN or the police?

Did they seek the owner's permission before issuing an FPN on private land?

You don't need a landowner's permission to walk into a shop. I certainly never ask for permission, or even who the landowner is.

I wonder if farting loudly in a built up area between the hours of 7pm to 7am is ok or is it best to disguise with a simultaneous cough

I guess being fined for littering is more understandable as your potentially throwing something that isn't biodegradable.

Although, I've seen green lumps of spit on the ground and it is a bit gross to look at...I suppose you're being fined for unsociable behaviour.

You don't need a landowner's permission to walk into a shop. I certainly never ask for permission, or even who the landowner is.

Of course you don't but.

You must have permission from the landowner or occupier before you enter private land to issue FPNs.

I wonder if farting loudly in a built up area between the hours of 7pm to 7am is ok or is it best to disguise with a simultaneous cough

That's an interesting question...my wife and I went to a fancy BBQ smoked meat restaurant in that there London yesterday and I ate a lot of meat. This morning whilst on my commute I was happily parping away chuckling to myself that people behind might be walking into a cloud of guff.

If a police person was walking behind me and he could be sure I was the perp of the parp...could he fine me for unsociable behaviour?

In fact, am I just as disgusting as the people who spit on the floor because I farted in public. Although a fart is more temporary than spit.

Also, would the noise of the fart be more of an offence than the smell...