[Closed] Feminists, can they actually have a relationship that doesn't empower them?

I've read that three times and I'm none the wiser.

Same here.

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I'm just happy to see the phrase "much of a muchness" being used.

on a positive I've remembered to bookmark that gif as I can never find it

Who knows but for gods sake don't compliment them on their looks or achievements.

Half a shandy says the OP hasn't got a girlie

🙂

As OP hasn't actually managed to get to any sort of point I'm going to say it's a women.

*runs away

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I think that the OP is a bluff, none of yer nonsense, straight-talking Yorkshireman.
No. I don't understand him either. Is there a translator in the house?

Foggiest not.

OK I'll bite. I would say that many women have had enough of patronising males. What's wrong with treating a woman as a human being who has feelings and a brain, as opposed to shagability scoring?

Steminism and Jeremy Corbyn. Discuss.

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I had a relationship once

😆

I would say that many women have had enough of patronising males. What's wrong with treating a woman as a human being who has feelings and a brain, as opposed to shagability scoring?

Most men I know don't treat or think of women like that. Second wave feminism brainwashes women into thinking all men are like this and lays the seeds of distrust and even hatred towards men.

Most men and most women are decent people, but ideologies are designed along divide and rule policies - such as making men and women hate one another.

You might as well put 'Men,can they have a relationship that doesn't empower them'.

"These people." Now there's a phrase I dislike.

I'm a feminist so happy to answer your question if you want to completely rewrite it so it even makes 10% of sense.

Most men I know don't treat or think of women like that. Second wave feminism brainwashes women into thinking all men are like this and lays the seeds of distrust and even hatred towards men.

I've been dealing a lot with the medical profession for a good few years now. Without exception every male doctor I've spoken with can not deal with me disagreeing with them or indeed having an opinion. This includes me proving them wrong. I've been sneered at, patronised, treated as a moaning menopausal woman and all because I refuse to be a compliant patient as they don't do their bloody job.

I'll stop now. 😀

The nearest Google translate can manage is:

Asubuhi hii isiyo ya kawaida Nilitembelea Langsett Cafe ambapo mimi kusoma magazeti, miongoni mwa umati wa MAMILS na kile walionekana kuwa kamwe kukomesha rundo la ghali baiskeli STORCK Road kulikuwa na hadithi wengine wawili standout, si kwamba michuzi inaonekana kidogo tupu au kulikuwa na leso chache kwa punters lakini !!

Haki za wanawake na Jeremy Corbin?

Naelewa hadithi Corbin na leanings kisiasa ya baadhi tabloids, lakini wengine tu walionekana kuwa, vizuri tu isiyo ya kawaida kwa kuwa baada ya outburst ya haki za binadamu amevaa kama ukeketaji mwanasheria wiki hii. Inaonekana kuwa jukwaa kwa ajili ya uzinduzi zaidi masuala ya kijinsia blurb, nowt kibaya na kwamba kila mtu ana haki ya kuongea nk

Nashangaa kama watu hawa wanaweza kweli kuwa uhusiano wenye maana na kiume bila excercising aina fulani ya nguvu hata hivyo, usawa hawakuwa wanaonekana kutaja sana wakati wote? Ingawa i inaweza kuongeza Mimi basing mawazo yangu juu ya kile Nimesoma lakini ilionekana kuwa sehemu kubwa ya muchness katika bodi na hakuna mjadala mbadala.

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😉

It's not because you are a woman, but because you are not a doctor.
I have had similar experiences to yours and I am a man.

Cinammon Girl, couldn't your issue with doctors be non-gender related? Many people, male as well as female, complain that their doctor doesn't listen to them.
Perhaps you have a concrete example.

I have a permanent health condition where females make up around 90% of sufferers. Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment. Or all sufferers would receive medication on the NHS, unlike how it is now.

The NHS is inherently sexist I'm afraid.

A +1 for Chip. I have also been patronised by a doctor. Some don't realise that professional competence includes people skills. I have met a couple during my treatment who though quite senior are not fully competent.

What is the role of a nurse? To stop a doctor from killing you.

badnewz - Member

Second wave feminism brainwashes women into thinking all men are like this and lays the seeds of distrust and even hatred towards men.

I do like that your response to "patronising men" is to be a really patronising man though, that's good.

I do like that your response to "patronising men" is to be a really patronising man though, that's good.

I was criticising the ideology of second wave feminism, not women. If any type of critique from someone who happens to be a man is automatically construed as patronising, then there really is no hope.

Nope- the bit where you explained how those poor women were being brainwashed and don't really think these things was the patronising part.

Nope- the bit where you explained how those poor women were being brainwashed and don't really think these things was the patronising part.

As it happens I think ideologies brainwash both men and women. In the past I've argued that many people in our society are brainwashed by cultural marxism (I consider radical feminism a part of cultural marxism overall, albeit one which is obviously targeted at women).

A hospital consultant once said to me that a great deal more research and resources goes into breast cancer than into prostate cancer. Shirley in a sexist service it would be the other way round.

OP, don't you worry your pretty little head about it, darlin'.

Without exception every male doctor I've spoken with can not deal with me disagreeing with them or indeed having an opinion.

Cinnamon Girl, it's the same for blokes ! I make every effort to see female doctors as they are always better.

Darlin, Darlin.....?

I am shocked at that kind of language

Oh Doctors listen?!?! No way never, not even once. Doesn't matter on the gender, they're not listening types, they like a puzzle you see. They ask you the problem but they've switched off have way through and they're busy trying to diagnose from other clues, they're checking around your eyes for fatty deposits which might show signs of high cholesterol, they're checking your nails for white marks etc etc.

What makes that worse is during their training they were told all about "bedside manner" and told they should ask about people's welfare etc, unfortunately they don't get told they have to listen - I hate it when they ask you something about your lifestyle, but half way through they switch off, or worse cut you off as if you're wasting time, it's infuriating! As they get more senior / specialised they get worse, until they get better, I've met a few Consultants in their late 50's early 60's they've risen to such a rarefied level of almost god like statue within the hospital that they're free to glide from place to place whilst a small gaggle of juniors and ward sisters fuss about in their wake - they're lovely to talk to, because they've finally learnt to pretend to be listening well.

I've got to visit the doctors fairly regularly to have prescriptions checked and other tests, I se a Nurse Practitioner now, she's great - a pretty much perfect mix of Nurse and Doctor.

I was criticising the ideology of second wave feminism

Or oversimplifying an inherently complex and multi-layered 20+ year period in a fight for some level of equal treatment? Perhaps.

cinnamon_girl - Member
OK I'll bite. I would say that many women have had enough of patronising males. What's wrong with treating a woman as a human being who has feelings and a brain, as opposed to shagability scoring?

Agreed.

I was criticising the ideology of second wave feminism
Or oversimplifying an inherently complex and multi-layered 20+ year period in a fight for some level of equal treatment? Perhaps.

Glad I wasn't alone in that tootall.

I've been dealing a lot with the medical profession for a good few years now. Without exception every male doctor I've spoken with can not deal with me disagreeing with them or indeed having an opinion. This includes me proving them wrong. I've been sneered at, patronised, treated as a moaning menopausal woman and all because I refuse to be a compliant patient as they don't do their bloody job.

I'll stop now.

You live in a fantasy land if you think that this only applies to women. I have had all of the same things from BOTH male and female Drs and one female Dr in particular was so rude and argumentative, I actually started raising my voice, as the way she was behaving was a disgrace.

^^ not just doctors. I had a similar experience with an ignorant radiographer!

Not just Doctors or Radiographers, I've had similar experiences with patients. Some of them happened to be female too.

^^ not just doctors. I had a similar experience with an ignorant radiographer!

People in the medical world often seem to think they are god, and that you are a lowly peasant who couldn't possibly have any understanding of your own condition.

Drac - Moderator
Not just Doctors or Radiographers, I've had similar experiences with patients. Some of them happened to be female too.

I have no doubt. In my wife's experience it's the families who are trying to rip off their vulnerable relatives who are the worst!

People in the medical world often seem to think they are god, and that you are a lowly peasant who couldn't possibly have any understanding of your own condition.

You think that's bad, you should try customers... Just because they pay you money, they think they are owed some kind of service! Bloody cheek.

cinnamon_girl - Member
I have a permanent health condition where females make up around 90% of sufferers. Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment. Or all sufferers would receive medication on the NHS, unlike how it is now.

The NHS is inherently sexist I'm afraid.

Anything to back up that claim?

Well this thread makes perfect sense.

Femenism and feminists, youve just got to know how to control them and remind them youre superior in most things.

or perhaps not if you want a quiet life.

Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment

Whatever the gender of the expert they dont take it to well when the non medically trained patient starts to diagnose for them

It really not a gender or a doctor thing

I don't feel a need to be 'empowered' as such, but I'm not one to suffer fools gladly and anyone, male or female, will feel the sharp end of my wit should they treat me like anything other than a human being.

I've found that men, [i]generally[/i], do not like a woman who is better than them at something that is traditionally seen as a 'male' activity.

Like reaching stuff from the top shelf?

I think it's generally time women stop nagging at men to do 'male' activities and they start doing them themselves.

God I hope not. We don't want STW overrun with bitchiness.

Anything to back up that claim?

Which specific part?

Whatever the gender of the expert they dont take it to well when the non medically trained patient starts to diagnose for them

I medically diagnosed myself, the experts diagnosed, er, differently. Who was right?

The bloke.

I medically diagnosed myself, the experts diagnosed, er, differently. Who was right?

Internet diagnosis? Like internet opinions and internet mechanics they're 10 a penny and to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I know how your doctors feel when you tell them they're wrong, put it that way.

I've been dealing a lot with the medical profession for a good few years now. Without exception every male doctor I've spoken with can not deal with me disagreeing with them or indeed having an opinion. This includes me proving them wrong. I've been sneered at, patronised, treated as a moaning menopausal woman and all because I refuse to be a compliant patient as they don't do their bloody job.

Men are just more curt with people that annoy them, there are lots of female doctors who really do despise certain types of patients - they're just better at putting on a smiley face with them.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Which specific part?

Well this bit:

Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment. Or all sufferers would receive medication on the NHS, unlike how it is now.

For every correct self-diagnosis I suspect there are thousands which are not. I assume this is one reason why doctors get rather jaded by a patient who apparently knows it all.

People in the medical world often seem to think they are god, and that you are a lowly peasant who couldn't possibly have any understanding of your own condition.

That wasn't the issue - it was their failure to treat me as a person, rather than dirt.

That wasn't the issue - it was their failure to treat me as a person, rather than dirt.

Have you ever considered how much death doctors see?

If more of them treated you like a person, many more would be found hanging from their ceiling light.

Doctors and surgeons dehumanize people because it allows them to do their job.

I visited Langsett Cafe a couple of months ago, but it didn't make me talk gibberish.

However, I did bump into some old friends from Marple, whose house used to be Timmy Mallett's old school.

Doctors and surgeons dehumanize people because it allows them to do their job.

Rubbish. It's most important that any medical person remembers they are dealing with people.

Have you ever considered how much death doctors see?

A). It was a radiographer not a doctor
B). Guess what? I'm not dead
C). Seeing dead people doesn't provide an excuse to dehumanise the living

How can you people keep talking about feminism when someone has shown us the sort of stems Jeremy Corbyn is riding with?!?

Holy s__t! 😯

C). Seeing dead people doesn't provide an excuse to dehumanise the living

Yes, yes it does. Dehumanizing people is what allows doctors/surgeons to carry out their jobs with a level headed coolness. If many didn't, many more would end up with PTSD....more than there are already.

A). It was a radiographer not a doctor

Pretty sure radiographers will have seen plenty of people needlessly die in their time as well.

This thread's like walking into a garden centre. I was greeted by one incomprehensible garden centre assistant and now I'm looking at all the delicate little flowers.

I really have no idea....

All of my "wut"

es, yes it does. Dehumanizing people is what allows doctors/surgeons to carry out their jobs with a level headed coolness. If many didn't, many more would end up with PTSD....more than there are alread

No, it doesn't. Being objective and clinically effective doesn't mean you have to dehumanise. If you think it does you either have a faulty definition of 'dehumanise' or a more significant issue.

My wife specialises in an area of nursing that has a terminal outcome. Eventually she sees all her patients die - without exception. Each loss hurts. Her valuing every person in her care makes her the good nurse she is - her humanisation of patients means they have a better quality of life. Death also does not have to mean trauma as meant by PTSD.

My wife specialises in an area of nursing that has a terminal outcome. Eventually she sees all her patients die - without exception. Each loss hurts. Her valuing every person in her care makes her the good nurse she is - her humanisation of patients means they have a better quality of life.

Well, then your wife is at one end of a normal distribution curve I suspect.

In one experiment, physicians who practice acupuncture (as well as matched non-physician controls) underwent functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) while watching videos of needles being inserted into another person’s hands, feet and areas around their mouth as well as videos of the same areas being touched by a cotton bud. Compared to controls, the physicians showed significantly less response in brain regions involved in empathy for pain. In addition, the physicians showed significantly greater activation of areas involved in executive control, self-regulation and thinking about the mental states of others. The physicians appeared to show less empathy and more of a higher-level cognitive response.

This finding raised a further question. Perceiving pain in others typically involves two steps. First people engage in the emotional sharing of pain with another person, and then they make a cognitive appraisal of the emotion. Do physicians automatically feel empathy for the pain of others, but then quickly suppress it? Or is the cognitive suppression of empathy even deeper; has it become more automatic? Is it possible that the physicians no longer even experience the first step of empathy for pain that regular people show on their brain scans?

and

Whether during a surgery, biopsy, physical exam, or even a simple blood draw, healthcare professionals routinely must inflict pain on others to make them better in the long run. Physicians also need to have daily communication with patients who are physically injured, bleeding or otherwise suffering. Being too focused on the patient’s pain can make the doctor less effective. Suppressing the response to others’ pain may in fact free up information processing resources to more effectively solve clinical problems. This argument explains the finding that physicians get less empathic as they see more patients and progress through their training. In addition, a recent study of hospital nurses found that they cope with stress on the job by dehumanizing patients, which presumably makes them more effective at their jobs.

The only problem with that is: acupuncture needles generally don't hurt, so it is not surprising that people who use them don't associate them with pain.

You do realise that inflicting pain on people to heal them doesn't mean you have to dehumanise them. That's not what dehumanising means.

I think you will find that recognising the humanity of people isn't that rare. Why would you have a vocation to heal if you don't see people as people...? Seems pointless.

Except the controls associated it with pain, didn't they.

Death also does not have to mean trauma as meant by PTSD.

It doesn't have to, but it sometimes does.

You do realise that inflicting pain on people to heal them doesn't mean you have to dehumanise them. That's not what dehumanising means.

I see you failed to read all of it.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jasp.12267/abstract

So apparently the journal of applied psychology doesn't know what "dehumanizing" means.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I've not got a problem with either men or doctors!

I see you failed to read all of it.

Yes, I did fail. You see right.

Don't have access to read the full article. However, I have read articles in nursing journals which seem to indicate otherwise.

Very easy to argue the opposite. Pain and failure can drive a person to be better, to work harder to care for a patient, to save their life.

I know that is true in my case anyway.

As for the feminist bit, meh. Bellthronks exist in both genders. I'll be honest when I was a young squaddie I was a mysoginistic piece of shit, women were worthless in my eyes. I just didn't know it and was happy in the ignorance of belief.

Then my ephinany happened in the form of a work related mental breakdown. Queue, a long period of intervention, which allowed me to undo, shall we say, some of the programming from my much younger years.

My outlook and attitude these days is very different.

OP, did you ever write for Dirt Magazine?