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@Trimix - 😯 blimey!
I've caved a bit in my youth - loved it, especially the sporting wet caves. Left the sport when I started uni and haven't been for over 22 years now. Back then I would have loved to continue into cave diving as a progression from caving, but then I got hooked on climbing instead. Cave diving remains still utterly fascinating to me now. A world that most folk never experience is a truly special thing.
Trimix - MemberIf anyone is interested I wrote an article about another "experience" I had while diving.
It involves:
Hanging on to a decompression trapeze so the boat can tow me out of the shipping lanes.Attempting to complete my final 35 mins of deco while losing consciousness.
Asphyxia underwater.
Asphyxia on the boat.Bit long to post here - I can email it to you if you want.
For some weird and horrific reason I'd like to read it. email in profile.
Thanks
Me too; it's horrifying and fascinating, at the same time. I'm not one for phobias, (I'm fairly sure I haven't got any [i]irrational[/i] fears) but this thread is so full of '**** that' for me. It's just too much risk, for too little benefit, for me. One question for the divers; how much redundancy is built into the non rebreathing systems these cave divers use? I know open circuit divers have a spare mouthpiece, but that in that article about Dave Shaws accident, a single piece of equipment broke that put his colleague in massive danger. It just seems people are putting themselves at risk of equipment failure, whilst feeling intoxicated, with literally no way to escape if stuff goes tits up. Bonkers risk 😯
Email sent.
As regards redundancy for a challenging dive I have:
4 or 5 methods of buoyancy control
6 regulators - depending on gas mix
2 depth gauges
2 timers
1 back up deco plan (plus my memory)
2 programmable deco computers
2 reels
2 masks
2 lights
2 cutting devices
2 slates for surface communication
2 DSMB's
Being able to alter the deco plan on the fly means I can utilise the gasses I carry - which can be up to 6.
Basically I don't have any thing that is mission critical that isn't backed up. I also practice doing the deco and accent blind folded or without a depth gauge or without a timing device or both.
Its the planning that I enjoy as much as putting yourself in a position where only you are in control and only you have planned the event.
I never do it with a "buddy" - I only carry enough gas for myself, so having someone else along just adds complications and therefore risks.
No redundant wine or cheese. Im out 😉
in a cave you're mostly in charge of your own fate.....theres no distracted mum/texting kid behind the wheel about to wipe you out. I think we just evolved to fear dark water/enclosed spaces....in a few thousand years we'll have a phobia of people text driving.
Really interesting read, x2 Trimix, thank you. Still think you're bonkers, but you're definitely well prepared bonkers! Still too full of nope for me though!
Trimix
Interesting and scary read. How have your following deep dives gone? Did you get any feedback as to the cause/have you change your methodology since the incident?
Cheers
Mike
I spoke to a couple of Doctors who fully understand mixed gas diving. Basically they said it was 'probably' a reaction of the lung to the high Oxygen content in the mix. Sort of an irritation.
No one is sure, but Oxygen at high percentages is quite bad for you, the inside of the lung inflames and is unable to absorb the gas.
Following that the next day I reduced the final Deco mix to a much lower O2. I was OK.
Further dives I used a max of 70% O2, which also has the added benefit of being a gas that you can get onto early in the deco. Should the dive go wrong it gives you more flexibility
I've never liked using pure O2 as its only useful from about 6m upwards - which is no good if you need gas at say 20m.
How the gas affects you is very individual, I've altered my deco gradient after lots of experiments.
Still got bent a few times, but it was more of a skin rash rather than losing sight in one eye - which was alarming to say the least.
If you want to read about major cave diving exploration it's worth looking up the WKPP)(Wakulla Karst Plains Project). They've done some epic deep long cave exploration with an impressive safety record, and have evolved an entire system of kit selection & configuration, skills, dive planning and decompression theory that is really all about diving as a team more than an individual. It caused a lot of friction when it was first being promoted by a pretty brash guy, and the flame wars on the techdiver forum were incredible. It's all got a lot more respectable now, and is a bit more mainstream.
As someone who couldn't go into wookie hole and had to snorkel on the barrier reef, I find reading about this fascinating and terrifying in equal measure? I dont think I haveclaustrophobia, and have been in fully smoked out compartments with breathing apparatus, but the thought of diving into a cave makes me shudder just sitting here in my garden!
I would be interested to read your article trimix but it will scare the beejeezus out of me 🙂
I'd be interested in having a read of that, Trimix, email is in profile
Could you send me a copy too.
Andysredmini at hotmail dot com
Thanks in advance
I think most of us like nice wide open spaces 🙂
Anybody watched The Descent? One film I won't watch again it freaks me out so much.
Email sent as requested.
Would appreciatively about your dives as well, even if it does freak me out (though like Phil40 I would happily run round in zero visibility in full SCBA all day).
It's an utterly fascinating sport that you need a mentality that most probably don't possess for.
Trimix, a copy would great too.
The nearest I have got to this sort of stuff is a few wreck penetration dives, but nowhere near these sort of levels of commitment. Dived a few easy caves around Gozo, but I don't think the cave diving side of the sport really appeals to me.
Email sent 🙂
in case anyone hasn't read that 'Raising the Dead' article on the first page...
it's a long read but really good. Absolutely gripping. Quite impressive considering it's written in such sober, understated tones throughout.
Don't read it last thing before bed though 😉
When I got wedged firmly into a small hole at 95m I did think about all the stories I read where others ended up dead.
But that moment of thinking was very short - at 95m you can actually see the tank pressure gauge move with each breath. It kind of focuses your mind. Oh, and for every minute I spent at that depth it adds about 12 mins of Deco time.
I was not carrying much spare.
The other thing that went through my mind was a feeling of embarrassment at getting stuck and how sunny it was before I started the dive.
Contrary to popular belief, your life does not flash past when you think your likely to die 🙂
So you didn't think 'wish I had a rebreather"? 🙂 For me that took a lot of the latent time pressure off deep dives, giving more flexibility on planning. Obviously bail out strategy and capacity is still a limit. Though they're no panacea, one of my memorable experiences was on the Afric, when I realised my scrubber was flooding and the joys of a co2 hit were making themselves known, all at close to 80m with a swim back to the shotline...
I like the simplicity of open circuit and not mixing water and electrics. But yeah, I know what you mean - on one dive I took the wrong route back out of a cave - turned out to be a dead end.
Its the bail out by using tanks that puts me off. Bit like going tubeless, but still having to carry a spare tube with you 🙂
I've just ordered a copy of Raising the Dead.
This is also a good read, I didn't realise quite how far from rescue, if things go wrong, those deep cavers were.
[url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blind-Descent-Quest-Discover-Deepest/dp/1849018561/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462981038&sr=8-1&keywords=blind+descent ]Blind Descent[/url]
A real eye opening book is Sheck Exley's Caverns Measureless to Man. It's an amazing book as is anything written by Martyn Farr. As a young caver I met Martyn in the SWCC hut and had no idea why my mates were bowing and scraping at his feet.
I really need to get back into caving again, anyone else fancy a trip?
Cheers Trimix, interesting read that
farrs "the darkness beckons" is a good read. Quite sobering if you write down each divers name when you come across them, then cross them off when the cark it.
Anyone interested in watching the movie on a big screen?
trying to arrange a screening in Lincoln and just wondering what the interest would be if we manage to sort it.
Will be screened in Lincoln
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/diving-into-the-unknown-theritzcinema-tickets-26148680407