[Closed] 'Faith' schools.

Seems grossly unfair and simply anachronistic in today's society that so many schools are allowed to select pupils on the basis of supernatural beliefs.

I agree that it remains a very strange feature of British schools' life. That said, I know that, unless they are grossly over-subscribed, both the local Catholic and CofE schools should still receive an application for your daughter and take it seriously.

I'm sure that they won't see you without a school to go to.

as we have absolutely no religious commitment, we are effectively excluded from these

Not sure that's true.. ? You can go, and skip religious stuff can't you?

Apparently not. Each school has around 8 categories of pupils of which 'other', or non religious pupils, will be considered in the final category. But as all schools fill their pupil allocation among the earlier categories, and thus are over subscribed, applicants in the 'other' category are not allocated places as they are all already filled. Places 1-3 are listed generally as disabled and people in care, then the next few categories are varying degrees of religious commitment, with maybe some sort of musical aptitude in some. It's ****ing bollox.

It's **** bollox.

There's nothing more british than moving house and pretending to be a neterist so your kids can get into a school further up the league table, it's what made us great.

Lie about the faith thing?

Lie about the faith thing?

Fortunately children are smart enough to work it out for themselves

May be of relevance,

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/catholic-school-but-we-are-devout-atheist

Faith schools should be banned. Lie like everyone else does.

Get down the comp lad.
Have confidence your excellent parenting will overwhelm any negative influences.

Faith schools should be banned

From the news today the government want to add more by removing limits because "it has prevented new Catholic schools from opening, which are more successful, more popular and more ethnically diverse than other types of state school." (source: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37314149)

something is working even if it isn't the faith itself

Have confidence your excellent parenting will overwhelm any negative influences.

I had hoped that we would move into the 21st century and get rid of faith schools entirely. You want to indoctrinate your children? Fine. Go for it. On your own time. But let everyone get an unbiased education. Tmay has other ideas it seems.

Can't really answer your question. More of just a platform to air my views.

Or, apply for the faith based ones, letting your religious beliefs be known, and take them to European court of human rights on religious grounds of your bit chosen.

With regards lying, don't think that's possible. Apparently some sort of proof of attendance verified by priest or vicar is required. Otherwise I'm sure most would lie.

At the OP where do you live?

My daughter goes to a CofE school but we did not have to prove any faith. Selection was based upon distance from the school.

Agree that it is ridiculous that this situation can exist in the 21st century.

Why would I ban faith schools. Er because if you wish to believe in mumbo jumbo fine by me just don't use the public tax system to support it. We should be trying to unite children not bar them from each other because they don't believe in one brand of crap. If you want a faith school fund it yourself. God told me all this so it must be true.

Can't you just rock up to church a few times and get it signed off? I don't think you have to attend forever.

What is it that makes them more successful? Why would you want to stop that

I think perhaps it's the selection process. No way is a massive % of Loddriks community profoundly religious. Ergo a large % are prepared to compromise something to get into one of these schools. So over time the general effect polarises things. At no point am I suggesting that Loddrik doesn't care about his kids, just that others care less about their principles. I am agnostic, yet my daughter goes to a Catholic school.

just don't use the public tax system to support it

I think perhaps it's the selection process. No way is a massive % of Loddriks community profoundly religious.

From the news today the government want to add more by removing limits because "it has prevented new Catholic schools from opening, which are more successful, more popular and more ethnically diverse than other types of state school."

Wouldnt it be great if we could look at causecand effectvrathervthan just correlations. I mean imagine how my mind would be blown if we could prove that its Gods work making them better. I would almost certainly self combust!

I suspect it is just a correlation and it isn't fully understood why

Catholic school more likely to be in older more established community areas. This would pretty much guarantee positive bias on intake in a lot of areas.

CofE and Catholic are not faith schools, anyone can go. Christian values are what this country was built on, so it's no surprise these schools are the normal

Faith schools should be banned.

Christian values are what this country was built on

Catholic are not faith schools

Religion is the opposite of Education

Those individuals which make these schools successful can be retained

than moving house and pretending to be a neterist so your kids can get into a school further up the league table

This. Op is being ridiculous. Your desicion should be based on which is the best school for your child. We did this and it just so happens KJ01's school - the best in our area - is a Christian faith school. Jnr does a Christmas play until year 2, sings church hymns in assembly and occasionally comes home with stories of the 10 commandments but other than that he's turned out OK. He does rave on about Jesus or preach Christianity.

Although born in Christian denomination neither of us are overtly religious, what difference does it make as long as he receives a good level of education and is grounded in decent social skills, manners and the basic fundamental positive rules of life.

Move house my arse...

He does rave on about Jesus or preach Christianity.

What if you had been born Muslim or Jew or whatever how would you then feel if the only good schools were Catholic?

No one is born any faith. You are made into one.

I don't (massively) object to the faith schools per se - but I do object to faith being part of the admissions criteria. A CofE school we were looking at prioritises faith applicants, and requires some serious long term effort by non-religious parents wanting a place. From the admissions policy:

"Applicants who are ‘regular worshippers’ would be those who regularly attend
church services, worshipping in a Christian church at least twice a month for a minimum of one year before application."

You need a form signed by the vicar to prove this.

Those individuals which make these schools successful can be retained
wow. Retrain people to not have faith. off to dprk for you

Reading fail? Retain is not the same as retrain.

This. Op is being ridiculous. Your desicion should be based on which is the best school for your child. We did this and it just so happens KJ01's school - the best in our area - is a Christian faith school. Jnr does a Christmas play until year 2, sings church hymns in assembly and occasionally comes home with stories of the 10 commandments but other than that he's turned out OK. He does rave on about Jesus or preach Christianity.
Although born in Christian denomination neither of us are overtly religious, what difference does it make as long as he receives a good level of education and is grounded in decent social skills, manners and the basic fundamental positive rules of life.
Move house my arse...

Ridiculous why?

I'm not prepared to send my daughter to a poor school, and have apparently no chance of getting in to a decent one as I do not 'qualify', so moving home to ensure she gets to go to a decent one seems like a sensible, if less than perfect solution. Don't really see why it is so ridiculous...

Get some private tuition for the maths - I had meningitus when 5 and I was always a bit behind on my maths but I had some tutelage before secondary school and then I was amongst the top half dozen maths performers in that school after that.

If you have to accept a lower performing school locally then consider the private tutelage thing as well, cheaper than moving to be near a good school and it will put your kid near the top of the performers at school, and being in that position could well help more in terms of self-confidence than being a middle ranker at a better school.

If a school is to be a "faith" school then it's either multi denominational or its nothing at all.
Considering how much is spouted about discrimination, etc the fact this is allowed is utter bollocks.
Ban it all - period.
Want to worship a faith?
Fine - do it in your own family time, at your own church.
School is not the place for it.

We had the option of removing ours from RE classes but chose not to as fortunately it's done more as a philosophy and discussion style. If it was taught how it was when I was at school there would have been no discussion- it would have been stopped.

I would ban faith schools completely. Religion is a private matter for thone who choose to belive and shouldn't play any part in education beyond some re lessons so kids are aware of faiths

My son recently finished year 11 at a Catholic school.
We are not a religious family. I chose to apply to said school years ago because of the discipline ( observed by an outsider at the time like me by how the pupils respected , or were made to respect, their appearance , i.e school uniform ).
Secondly the school had good academic results and importantly the school was nearby, so my son could cycle to school.

He completed his GCSEs with 7 A's ( triple science,maths,history,art,,English) and 4 B's ( Religious education ,textiles,French, English literature ).

He didn't want to go back for A levels , had enough of the discipline and academics.
I'm glad I sent him there, he got a good education and enjoyed his debates he had in RE classes about faith and ethics.
He was free to be a non believer.

He now is doing an apprenticeship in Landscaping through a local landscaping company and goes to a respected college one day of the week.

Where am I going with this?
Get your child a decent education and don't be scared or resentful towards religious schools. They do take non religious pupils in, although only a small percentage.
I was just honest with my reasons when we applied - wanted best possible education,proximity and approval of discipline that goes with religious schools .

I find these threads very interesting.

It's funny to watch STW uber-Atheist Division start to froth at the mouth and riduclous stories of children getting sent for Exorcism at Catholic Schools! 🙂

I sort of agree with the removal of teaching children to "follow" a particular Religion, however, why is that Faith Schools, regardless of which Religion or Denomination, regularly out perform others?

Is it because of additional structure and discipline?

Genuine question!

I suspects it's a combination of having selective entry and a more disciplined approach supported by the parents

Religion should have no impact on school admission and if anything it should be illegal. If a school receive state funding they should be open to all. Yes they might choose to give a more religious education but no way they should apply religion to admission.

Personally I think there should be no selection allowed for any school. Schools are part of the community so should be open to all parts of the community. They should not just be factories to pass exams and send pupils to the top universities. A plumber or electrician is just as important as a doctor for society to function.

We did try and get some additional maths tuition but every tutor worth anything is booked solid seemingly indefinitely.

Probably because middle class parents have the time and money to drive their kids across a city to get them into the so called best religious school. Whereas working class parents don't have the time, money or can't be arsed and just send their kids to the local school. I'm middle class but clearly put myself in the can't be arsed camp, to be fair the schools are all quite good. If you are happy to drive you kids half way across a city to get them to school each day then you probably take their education very seriously and do a lot more out of school education and push your kids more academically. Other people probably push their kids in other ways that may not result in better exam results but their kids might be overall better rounded.

OP you have plenty of choices and have articulate them in your first post.

So you are anti the supernatural, That's one choice made. THe easy one.

So grammar or comp? Second choice. Should be easy too.

If grammar, what's the problem? Maths. So third choice - give in or do something about it?

As a parent you have your next choice - lead by example. Your daughter is bright but has an issue with maths. "Teach" her that life is all about overcoming challenges. This time it's 11+ maths

Start

https://www.cgpbooks.co.uk/Parent/books_11Plus_maths

Puts some hours and graft in together and pass the maths, it's not hard. No excuses, just a bit of effort. Early lesson in life passed and learned. SImple.

CGP really is your friend. All for the cost of an inner tube and a few hours of graft.

wow. Retrain people to not have faith. off to dprk for you

No one is born any faith. You are made into one.

Choice in state education in this country is pretty much just an illusion saying you have choice is a red herring used to gloss over the fact that lack of investment in education means many schools are shit. We could choose 3 or 4 schools for our son and got placed in one based on the fact it was the closest not sure how thats choice.

Selecting pupils based on faith shouldnt be legal within the state system imo. By all means have a school with Catholic values if you want just make them teach those who apply...but then if they didnt get to choose those with "invested"parents they might not look better!