[Closed] F1 time

inter wet, so should be interesting

bye bye fernando

what a wally 🙂

new pants for Alonso. And webber.

We need another shower.

Hamy in his old pit! Haha

Opted for wtcc for my pre mtb viewing , saves me falling asleep 😉

Eurosport for those who care

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're funny.

Lewis is having a stormer

Ha Ha finger boy says get Mark out the way as not fast enough and now dropping back from him Karma at work

come on lewis

Shame Lewis had to fuel save (and cocked his pitstop up) - he would have been right in there...

Rosberg's not going to be a happy chappy. Welcome to the status of no. 2 driver!

Cheers

Danny B

Bit of tension in the red bull camp at the moment ! ... lewis didnt look too impressed either !!

Webber vs Vettel - think they'll be going out for a wee drink later?

I think they may engage in a bit of 'handbags' later!

My moneys on webber for beating the crap out of the little german !! 😀

I wouldn't take Webber on in a fight!

Cheers

Danny B

webbers well pissed !!!

The atmosphere in that dressing room was incredible. Great to watch the two drivers racing but Vettel can't expect any help from Webber now.

is multiple21 the fuel setting? Webber said it twice to Vettel

Trouble is - as Webber intimated, Vettel will face no sanctions whereas he would probably be dropped...

Shows Vettel for what he is though. Rosberg wasn't happy either but respects the team...

Cheers

Danny B

What a sham of a sport, sick of it.

I know we havent been watching the fastest drivers for years but the driver with the biggest backers and it isnt making good TV. Team orders, driver championship and constructors championship is confusing a corrupt picture.

Can you imagine football, rugby, etc being played by the players with the richest backers ? It wouldnt happen.

But for example it does happen in cycling. Froome could well have won the TdF last year. He had Wiggins completely on one of the climbs but was told to come back and help the team leader.

F1 is a team sport - the constructors is far more important to the teams as that's where the money is. They get awarded the prize money on the constructors positions not the drivers...

Cheers

Danny B

what's the point in racing if you don't race? Webber has been a cry baby throughout his career. He's just a poor loser, he will never be able to beat vettel without assistance.

Vettel is a lying shyster with selective deafness. Another arrogant German who won't play by the rules. Weber had a right to be pi$$ed.

Edit Vettel is the cry baby how many times as he thrown a strop when beaten he's known that.

TheFunkyMonkey - Member

what's the point in racing if you don't race? Webber has been a cry baby throughout his career. He's just a poor loser, he will never be able to beat vettel without assistance.

Webber was told to turn the engine down to make sure he got to the end in one piece. Vettel took advantage and pounced. Its not a case of pure racing, Nico Rosberg played the game for Merc, shame that Vettel does not play by the same rules.

Rosberg should have been let past, that situation benefits nobody. both drivers get pissed off and the team doesn't gain anything

This type of race does show just how much internal politics come into play. As much as i absolutely love F1 it is not just about pure out and out racing, its about strategy and tactics.

happens in every team sport and has been the case in formula 1 since i can remember
however, what seb did today was similar to what senna did to prost in imola 1989

But for example it does happen in cycling. Froome could well have won the TdF last year. He had Wiggins completely on one of the climbs but was told to come back and help the team leader.

as for vettel you either have team orders or you dont its pointless to ignore them then be glorious then suddenly back track.

Webber was restrained but you said what he had to well - he ignored orders but will be protected was a class line that said it all

Will be interesting to see if he takes him out at some later stage in a race.

So Vettel has now apologised - says it all really but it won't change the result. When will people realise F1 is a TEAM event too, not just for the driver. Have we forgotten in the past when one driver has actually given up his car so another driver could win a race? Yes it happened many many years ago and so it's always been a part of the sport.
I believe both teams, Red Bull and Mercedes did the right thing and ask their drivers to hold station, as much as we don't like it. But unfortunately Seb decided his need was greater. Went down in my estimation I'm afraid today.

Will be interesting to see if he takes him out at some later stage in a race.

Red Bull will be made up that they achieved maximum points so any "sanctions" against Vettel will be tempered (and what can they realistically be?). Webber should have just parked the car up once he was passed.

Red Bull will be made up that they achieved maximum [s]points[/s] publicity

Not a sporting win for Vettel. Quite a spectacle though to see two teams facing similar scenarios.

Rosberg shouldn't have been let past. Letting past would have included a change in strategy and increasing risk for no team gain. Didn't piss of Hamilton certainly, so it's not a lose all situation! Hopefully Rosberg would see that, and Brawn showed excellent skills in managing it.

Vettel and Webber should have taken the same strategy of trying to support each other to get to the finish line and consolidate the points.

If they wanted a proper race, RB should have said both drivers: limited engine, kers etc maps, race on but be gentlemen and respect each other. That way nursing the cars to the end but allowing racing. Vettel unscrupulously took advantage whilst on multi 21 (code for hold position), not really sporting in my book, and as said above, gone down in my estimation.

But for example it does happen in cycling. Froome could well have won the TdF last year. He had Wiggins completely on one of the climbs but was told to come back and help the team leader.

Although wiggo trounced him on the TT's.

I may be mistaken but I thought they could alter the cars mapping remotely from the pits - if so why didn't they just turn down Vettel?

All I'll say is that there was no need for aircon in the waiting room before the podium and the Champers on the podium was warm by the looks of the faces pulled

I thought they could alter the cars mapping remotely from the pits - if so why didn't they just turn down Vettel?

i think its against the rules to control the mapping from the pit wall (i think!) good race

Just seen the post race interview. Not good from Vettel.

I may be mistaken but I thought they could alter the cars mapping remotely from the pits - if so why didn't they just turn down Vettel?

Two way telemetry has been banned for a few years, they can now only retrieve data from the cars, not send data to it as well.

Could Alonso have pitted? If so I think he's a massive nobber, if not I still don't like him.

Bad form from vettel.

Shame for mclaren.

COME ON KIMI!!! 🙂

Good race.

Could Alonso have pitted?

Apparently the team told him to stay out, poor decision, I said seconds before the wing came off I can't believe they've kept him out that wing could come off any second... oh..

i think it was a better race BECAUSE of Vettel not being a 'team player' . Bad form? Yes. More exciting though? Yes!

bring it on and at least Webber knows the score now 🙂

From a team perspective, Vettel was an ar**. But from a viewers perspective, what was worse watching Vettel and Webber going head-to-head or the sham of Lewis being allowed to coast into the podium?

But from a viewers perspective, what was worse

On balance, it was probably Suzi Perry.

She was surprisingly lightweight.

if the team didn't want vettel to win, why are there no messages let mark back through?

It would have been better if Vettel had said what he really did... "**** team orders, I'm here to win!" None of this naughty school boy stuff.

They should be shown tapes of Senna v Prost to show them how it is done properly, then made to have a fight in the garage.

I am on the fence on this one.

Vettel has staked his claim early on in the championship like a true determined champion. Webber has crumbled and let him past. The issue I have is that Vettel went against team orders to do so including risking all the work and money put in by the team. I respect that he did the move etc but think it is poor play to dismiss a team order.

Webber has done the right thing but let himself down at the same time. If he continues being a gentleman then I doubt he will ever win a championship. He should have subtly run Vettel off the road. But again as said earlier he would have got his balls booted by his team. He should still do it and move team at end of the year after a storming season if he has it in him. So far he has only proven that he does not have real winning in him.

Good race

then made to have a fight in the garage.

Breaks them on old granite jaw who then pummels him to death

Never liked vettel and today summed him up completely - a spoilt , selfish , immature driver that has no respect for his employers or the other drivers. Although he may have got protection in the past, I think Horner was fuming and there will be repercussions. Hopefully this will be the last straw for Webber and he moves to McLaren!

Does anyone know if Webber actually slowed down as a result of team instructions, allowing Vettel to catch up ?

If that's the case he's got every right to be narked; if he was going as fast as he could and was relying on team orders to keep Vettel out then he's fair game IMO, and the sport's all the better for a bit of racing

Sorry its racing. **** team orders. You cant temper someones focus to win. Hence why Webber will always be another 'good' driver. Not a great driver. Still come on Kimilton!

hora it is only racing if both race; this was as close to cheating as it was to racing

It's what, second race of the season? Team orders? Crazy.... no one has any great advantage , let them scrap it out, it's what the paying public want to see. Today has reminded me why I stopped watching F1.

Vettel acted like a knob. Teams are allowed 8 engines for the season and once it was clear that Red Bull had done enough to win the instructions was to save the engine on the last few laps. Webber did this and the KNOB ignored this.

From BBC sport:

Webber added: "We have had a lot of history. I respect Seb. It is still very raw at the moment because we had a plan before the race.... I should probably stop now.
"It's very, very, very hard for Seb to sit there when we are told to bring the car home safely.[u] I turned the engine down and was reassured twice that we would not use the cars against each other[/u].

"It's very hard for people to understand the situation. They think they know what went on but they don't.

If I was Webber I would of just let Vettal run over my front tyre & take both cars out, what would of happened then?

[i]Vettel acted like a knob[/i]

really? Looked to me liked he acted like a man headed for his 4th world Championship. Alonso off, no danger from Hamilton, behind the man in the same car as him...Ask yourself, when/if he wins this year by less than 7 pts will Horner be chastising him for a dodgy bit of rule bending in the 2nd race that everyone's forgotten about?

Yes really. He won because Webber eased off as per team plan. If he didn't he could have won. Vettels victory was far from sweet. Lots of people have acted like knobs because of their greed/need to be numero uno, remember Mr Amstrong? Hitler? Victory at any cost.

I'm on the 'Vettel is a knob' side of the fence.

Webber could probably have kept a few seconds ahead of Vettel if he hadn't turned his engine down and backed off (and was assured there would be no threat). I didn't think there was a driver who I could despise more than Schumacher, but Vettel is really gunning for the obnoxious twunt of F1 award.

Godwin's on an F1 thread, a first* surely?

*dodgy overtaking when no-one was looking notwithstanding, clearly

Vettel is a weasel.

What's strange is that Schumacher might have been a weasel too, but I liked him and don't like Vettel. Hypocritical fan is hypocritical, I guess.

Vettel is a weasel, I agree. Never liked him. In fact every race he leads for more than 15 laps I tend to get pissed off and lose interest. But! Today I found myself thinking, for a second, good lad! Dunno if its just me, but my heroes were Senna and Schumacher. Both of which were born winners. Team orders meant shit to these guys, and theyre two of the biggest legends in f1. Their prickly characters made them great viewing in interviews too.

If Vettel would MTFU and say, "I passed Webber because he's a pussy and I'm faster". Then he'd be heading towards greatness. His actions would be totally justified and Id become a Vettel fan.

But at present his status is still weasel!

Furry muff. Agree. Born winners dont backpedal. Mucho like I am now 😉

I think it's a bit rich Webber taking the moral high ground because when he left the pitts Vettel was along side and Webber just stuck it up the inside on cold tyres, that was the moment that was the most dangerous for the team. After that I think the red mist decended for a bit on Vettel and he was determined to pass.

He tried to squeeze Vettel into the wall as well, if he was playing the team game then why would he defend to aggressively?

From yesterday's viewing, I cans safely say that Vettel is a born weiner.

Beating a car that's been told to go slow to preserve engines for later in the series. I do hope karma gets him when his engine goes in a deciding race at the end of the season.

Hamilton's interview was strange - looked like he's had rather accepted his fate and Rosberg got third. Quite a contrast between finger pointer and hamster there.

I turned the engine down and was reassured twice that we would not use the cars against each other.

Well you'd think that, as an experienced driver, he knows where the dial to turn it back up again was. If that was really the difference between 1st and 2nd, and he really wanted the win, it'd hardly be a wild action

Well you'd think that, as an experienced driver, he knows where the dial to turn it back up again was. If that was really the difference between 1st and 2nd, and he really wanted the win, it'd hardly be a wild action

F1 is dull shit ,worse than cycling for racing to team orders

F1 is dull shit ,worse than cycling for racing to team orders

Thanks for that educated opinion, I think Sky might've found their new strap line.

I'm surprised at Mercedes though, if Webber was having to turn it down I would expect them to give Rosberg a clear run at him, he would have stood a better chance of second than Hamilton. But top marks to Rosberg, he did what Vettle should have done ie. respect the team's decision, even if clearly not happy about it. Vettel may have shot himself in the foot, if he ever needs Webber to help him out later on...

Wasn't Mercedes issue that they under fueled the car & if they let them race & chase down Red Bull they stood a chance of running out of fuel?

The whole end of the race seemed an anti climax, Seb was sensible enough not to celebrate too much, Adrian Newey seemed annoyed to be put up between those two & Webber obviously wanted to punch Seb & Lewis seemed embarrassed to be there.

re: Mercedes, you have no idea how high Hamilton went on the engine mapping side, in the middle of the race to get track position, only to get penalised for it later, so why penalise Rosberg? a simple instruction for hamilton to move aside in the DRS zone could have seen Rosberg challenging for 2nd. BRAWN has always stated "we are here to race" yet in actual fact today he went for a PR stunt and wanted the new/old sponsors to see a new face on the podium and justify the vast amounts of money they spent to get him.

as for vettel, he clearly weighed up the consequence of disobeying a team order 'v' the extra championship points and took the points, knowing there is nothing the team will do.
I think Webber is a good driver on his odd day he has, but not the best, and is a bit of a Rubens. he knows the team, knows vettel, knows the power and backing Vettel has in that team, and so he will throw his toys out of the pram and continue as normal, as vettels b**ch.

Semi- OT watched a 50's racing programme last night. I didn't realise how Mike Hawthorn died (same year as his title win) and how/his poor-declining health.

knowing there is nothing the team will do.

I think that's the crux of it. He'll look naughty until the next race and then people will forget once there's some new news.

I'd rate Webber rather higher than Reubens mind - don't forget that but for some awful tactical calls at the last race of the season, he'd probably have been RB's first world champ, not Vettel. He's definitely not as adaptable as Vettel though which has been shown when RB have come up with new exhaust solutions that require driving differently to get the best from them - each time that's happened, Vettel has clearly taken the upper hand.

Anybody think Vettel will have a sticky wheel nut at the next race? 😉

Racings racing, at this stage in the season team orders shouldn't come into it, when one member has a definite point advantage half way through perhaps.

I haven't seen the race, but I do find all the anti-Vettel vitriol amusing. A couple of years ago, people were irate that Ferrari used team orders to Massa to let Alonso through (a very sensible thing to do if you have one driver in WC contention). Now, people are getting their knickers in a twist because one driver actually decided to race (isn't that the point?)! Make your minds up! 😆

Loving all the 'spoilt brat', 'poor sportsman' type comments. Vettel is a 3-time WC. Webber is a makeweight reliable experienced number two. He knows this himself, so he can't be too upset by Vettel's 'unsporting' behaviour.

As for it being bad for the sport, as some seem to think; it was being discussed on Radio 4 this morning. And I'd imagine there's media comment all over the world. So F1 is in the spotlight; I dare say Bernie is well chuffed.

If I'm going to watch what is mostly a pretty dull 'sport', then I at least want a bit of excitement. People like Vettel provide that. Webber doesn't. I don't want to see 'gentlemen' being all polite and courteous; I want to see ruthless, driven bastards winning. Because winning's what it's all about. First is everything; second is nowhere.

I haven't seen the race, so what I'm about to write will probably be complete bollocks

'team orders' deciding who wins a race- then its not really a race just a giant marketing exercise

I still believe F1 is as staged as WWF wrestling, so wouldnt be surprised if this was all set up to make a dull 'sport' look vaguely exciting

I still believe F1 is as staged as WWF wrestling

Formula one driver who actually races causes outrage.

How strange.