MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Would be even harder for cars with downforce, as you would not only have to overcome the weight of the car, but the downforce as well.
When you're upsidedown, the downforce becomes upforce *taps forehead*.
It’s not like they have a James Bond-esque barrel roll ramp at the side of the track.
I bet Bernie pitched it.
Bond ramps - If they increase some of those sausage kerbs a bit more then then could have!
Haivng said that, one of the W-series drivers suffered fracture vertebrae at COTA this year from bouncing off one on turn 1 that was then removed for the F1 race because of it.
Fittipaldi flip - still had 2 wheels on - Alonso would have nursed that back round to the pits.
None of these (bar Fittipaldi) made it across the line but some spectacular airborne incidents...
Edit - has to be watched on YouTube so click on the linky 🙂
As Mashr days, just go and watch some rallying, I'm amazed what little of a car they get round a track in! Can't think of it in single-seaters though
sockpuppet
FWIW I don’t think it has been gradual, it’s been quite marked. And it’s come home to roost: now Max is saying “it was ok in Brasil, what’s up with it now?”
He was doing and getting away with stupid shit back at least as far as 2016 tbf
https://twitter.com/_Regenmeister/status/1468130704001323009
In other news. Can't say the usually very slick Merc PR machine has done them a whole load of favours over all of this...
A dreadful commercial decision, but at least they’ve dropped them in a week.
Fittipaldi didnt so much ‘flip and continue’ as much as ‘hadn’t finished crashing yet when he inadvertently crossed the line’!
@multi21 - and around that time every time Vettel and Verstappen were within a car’s length there was an incident. But back then it was Vettel that got criticised on here.
Now Vettel cruising round mid field in a gig of a car is in the top couple of overtakers for the year (to be fair he has more opportunity than in his championship RB days, or even at Ferrari), which you can’t do without being half decent at sharing a track (Sunday not withstanding).
We sometimes form judgements too quickly.
We sometimes form judgements too quickly
Hopefully the subtext of that isn't that people have rushed to judge one Mr M.V.?
They should just put Kimi as sole adjudicator of all on track action. You’d get no problems then. 😂😂
Hopefully the subtext of that isn’t that people have rushed to judge one Mr M.V.?
I find it hard to settle on an opinion of him. When he first arrived he did what I thought was the right thing: establish a clear reputation as uncompromising and fearless on track. Over time that should have settled a bit; I was expecting him to exercise a little more judgement in terms of when to really dig his heels in.
That didn’t really happen, and we got a volatile mix of brilliance and over-reaching ambition until Monaco 2018. From then on he’s been solidly delivering top performances. A few moments, like the collision with Ocon at Interlagos and his conduct afterwards, but overall just generally obliterating teammates and getting everything out of the car.
Then this year. For the first half I was impressed: still the exceptional driving, this time with a better car, and generally admirably stoic, most notably after Silverstone when the rest of the team lost their heads. But then in the second half the cracks have started to show again: Monza’s crash was just unnecessary, Brazil was deeply unprofessional, and Saudi was a complete mess: the over-aggressive moves in the corners was one thing and entirely predictable, but the braking incident was off the chart. He’s remained largely rational in interviews but the subtext is often very clear. He knows what he’s doing on track, and he doesn’t care what anyone else’s view on it is, including the stewards and the FIA: he will do whatever it takes to avoid losing his grip on the trophy.
A shame, really, because I had quite changed my view of him early in the year. But I think the pressure is just bringing out his true colours again. Oddly I wondered during the early stages of qualifying whether now we’re at the sharp end of things we might see him repeat his once-regular Monaco qualifying errors, and so we did. Regrettably I find myself wanting to see him crack under the pressure this weekend.
Is it just that it's easier to hold a moral highground / 'sportsmanlike' attitude when you're in the faster car? Perhaps if the cars were evenly matched, Hamilton would be scrapping harder (like at Silverstone)?
I think Max has actually had the faster car for most of the season, yet he's still managed to act like a dick on more occasions than Lewis.
But I think the pressure is just bringing out his true colours again.
"Sport doesn't develop character - it reveals it" - whoever said that was absolutely spot on.
Is it just that it’s easier to hold a moral highground / ‘sportsmanlike’ attitude when you’re in the faster car?
Maybe, but I don’t buy it as the reasoning here. The Red Bull’s been the faster car on several occasions this year, and Verstappen’s been leading the championship more often than Hamilton.
F1 now sending out subtle “how to race” reminders
Perhaps if the cars were evenly matched
I think they are pretty well evenly matched TBF - they just display certain traits that makes one or the other more suitable for certain circuits.
mashr
Free Member
F1 now sending out subtle “how to race” reminders
Excellent, I note that neither of them left the track either 🙂
good summary @Bez
The Saudi race was just the latest chapter in Max's increasingly desperate show. The final chapter is just around the corner...
Maybe, but I don’t buy it as the reasoning here. The Red Bull’s been the faster car on several occasions this year, and Verstappen’s been leading the championship more often than Hamilton.
Yes, although MV's most egregious examples of poor driving have come in the second half of the season when he's been more on the back foot (especially after HAM got a magic turbo boost fitted in Brazil).
Maybe I've just noticed it more.
The final chapter is just around the corner…
Or simply straight over it...
😂
I think he's been following the Marc Marquez playbook. Win it or bin it, no compromise.
The rules in MotoGP were for other riders to follow, not him. He's also surrounded by sycophants who are living their dream through him, vicariously. Pushy parent, check! Failed racer managing him, check!
The 2015 season, where Marquez helped Lorenzo win a title, which would've been Rossi's, otherwise, was beyond belief. It was allowed to happen because the rules didn't have a clause about one rider deliberately derailing another riders championship.
One similarity from Saudi is that Honda claimed they had proof Rossi kicked Marquez off the bike in Sepang but never produced the telemetry. If you had a smoking gun, like that, why would you not release it?
I'm sure some similarities can be drawn from the young pretender wanting to dethrone the king, too.
To be fair I loved watching Rossi in his prime, but I’m sure I have seen him, umm, using his foot to prevent his bike hitting someone else’s. Something like that. Fantastic to watch.
That race when he duffed over Gibernau had such a profound effect on the Spaniard, he jacked it in!
What happens if Max nerfs Lewis so his car is driveable but off the pace? Can he swap with Valtteri?
The other drivers part to allow him 10th?
Hmmm good question! Not sure what rules state but practically that wouldn’t be easy. The seats and control positions are custom made for the driver so it’s not easy to jump out of your car and into someone else’s.
Also do would that count as an engine change for Hamilton? Would he have to drop back 5 places mid race?
Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but the season finale is now being shown live on Channel 4. Obviously I would've just streamed it anyway, but nice to not have to bother!
What happens if Max nerfs Lewis so his car is driveable but off the pace? Can he swap with Valtteri?
In the race? No.
It used to be a thing back in the 50s, drivers would often share a car (and the points) but I can't remember when it was banned.
Google Peter Collins if you want to see the ultimate example of this, he should really be much more famous.
.
After quali or practice? I don't know. I suspect all kinds of Parc ferme, engine swap, etc rules would be broken but if for example LH has had a massive shunt on the way to the grid would he be allowed to take all the penalties and start in VB's car from the back/pitlane?
Not sure if it’s already been mentioned, but the season finale is now being shown live on Channel 4. Obviously I would’ve just streamed it anyway, but nice to not have to bother!
Great, I can watch the action and listen to five live commentary, for bearable commentary without Karen doing his live link to DC
Not sure if it’s already been mentioned, but the season finale is now being shown live on Channel 4. Obviously I would’ve just streamed it anyway, but nice to not have to bother!
Does anyone know for sure the start time of the race? I believe it's "starting" at 13:00 GMT but I'm not certain whether that's the 'Lights out and away we go...' moment or just the start of pre-race build up...
https://www.autosport.com/ says 1300 race start for UK, section with next F1 race dates/times under the news headlines.
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,” he told f1
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry.”
Glaringly obvious thing happened but someone told me it didn't and if I repeat that glaringly obvious lie I'm not actually lying, because I'm just repeating what someone told me.
Do Helmut and Boris share PR consultants?
FFFF
Is Peter Collins the gentleman racer who would change his shoes as a race went on as "a gentleman does not wear brown shoes in the evening"?
To answer my question. No.
Apparently a '50s le mans driver.
Mike Hawthorn's best mate, and fifties Grand Prix star.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Collins_(racing_driver)
Although, "Collins was sacked by Ferrari after deliberately damaging the clutch in his car, which he shared with Mike Hawthorn during the 24 Hours of Le Mans rather than race in a rainstorm, and was found drinking in a pub in England before the end of the race."
Oh, they were lads, all right. 🙂 Not sure when the Le Mans shenanigans was but you'll note it was Ferrari he was driving for when he was killed.
I believe that the C4 coverage will use commentary by the Sky team so that's an unexpected bonus.
I believe that the C4 coverage will use commentary by the Sky team so that’s an unexpected bonus
Shouty Crofty? I'd turn him off and stick the radio commentary on. The real bonus of the C4 deal looks like a shorter pre/post race Red Bull advert. Sorry, pre/post race show hosted by DC.
Can we just all agree to start calling C4 F1, Red Bull TV? Would probably be simpler that way
C4 coverage isn't that bad.
I've warmed to Steve Jones, I found him irritating as hell to begin with. The over expressing and hopping round like an excited teenager was annoying but I think he is genuinely that enthusiastic.
Mark Webber was okay but his "Yeah mate, these boys are coming the raw prawn while throwing shrimps on the barbie, ya flaming drongo" shtick kind of grated after a while.
I don't actually mind DC, his Red Bull bias is kind of priced in, plus "Uunderrrotaion" is always good value.
They need to use Lee Mackenzie more though, she's great.
Sky wins though mainly through the combined efforts of Brundle, Kravitz and Ant Davidson, the rest aren't any better than C4
Radio-TV commentary sync rarely works anymore.
I don’t actually mind DC, his Red Bull bias is kind of priced in, plus “Uunderrrotaion” is always good value.
You forgot his fav: 'mitie'. As in that lap/sector/Red Bull performance was mitie, Redbull sugaryshit is mitie etc...
Oh and his other fave "straight to the scene of the accident"
Brundle's is "A day late and a dollar short"
and was found drinking in a pub in England before the end of the race
Of course you would never get this these days but this is my favourite Le Mans drink driving story. Plenty of coffee and brandy at the pit stops to ward off the hangover and keep them alert.
And they won...
https://vennmotorsport.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/the-drunken-tale-of-duncan-hamilton/
“Uunderrrotaion” is always good value.
It might be good value now but remember that past performance is no guarantee of future success.
I wonder how many times we'll hear "on this day in history"....
FIA behave or else warning here
Good. Hopefully it serves as a deterrent rather than having to be used, otherwise every single F1 conversation for the next decade is going to be shouted over by millions of Dutch conspiracy theorists.
He just doesn't get it does he! 🙂
Expect a full wacky races start from Max then!
“And then also the other penalty as well I don’t agree with.”
That’s a solid argument he’s putting forward there tbf
I guess that's why Verstappen has 7 penalty points on his license and Hamilton has 2. If you don't think what you're doing is wrong, you're more likely to continue to do it.
If you don’t think what you’re doing is wrong, you’re more likely to continue to do it.
Quite
Max earlier....
I'd say he is treated differently.
Brazil showed he is sometimes given more latitude than other drivers in order, it seems, to preserve the spectacle.
Seems to me that verstappen is just pulling moves that Hamilton was lauded for over the previous years. Just when two people are doing the same thing it will go wrong.
Also, since when did race stewards negotiate with teams as to what penalty they would like??? Surely as stewards with an experienced driving standards rep they should just hand down the penalty and the teams such it up.
I guess that’s why Verstappen has 7 penalty points on his license and Hamilton has 2. If you don’t think what you’re doing is wrong, you’re more likely to continue to do it.
Hamilton does have 2 reprimands for his driving this season (rather ironically!) so a 3rd one during practice or qualifying this weekend will trigger an automatic 10-place grid penalty.
Hamilton definitely used to push Rosberg off track when he attempted to overtake on the outside.
Just needs a definitive statement and consistent enforcing. The FIA/Stewards are not capable of it though.
That’s a solid argument he’s putting forward there tbf
In his head he doesn’t need to. He’s right and everyone else is immaterial. That attitude, as a tool in a performance skill set, helps him become successful (or at least has done so far). As a personality trait it helps him come across as a dickhead. But you don’t win trophies for not being a dickhead.
Interesting to see that the tide of comments is heavily against him.
The only way this season is going to end in a clean and honourable manner is if Lewis shows him a clean pair of heels from Q3 onwards. Anything else is just going to end up in an ugly mess, whether that’s endless arguing between fans, controversial stewarding decisions, or actual carbon fibre.
Just needs a definitive statement and consistent enforcing
Or just show them the Vettel v Button video above and point out the parts with “racing room”
Seems to me that when points are added to your licence they should come off your championship score. Otherwise what's the, er..., point?
The only way this season is going to end in a clean and honourable manner is if Lewis shows him a clean pair of heels from Q3 onwards
Or Verstappen does. (which he did do at this circuit last year)
Or Verstappen does. (which he did do at this circuit last year)
But Hamilton and Mercedes had nothing to fight for in that race (and Hamilton had just come back from Covid and was far from his best - just like the first part of this season).
dooosuk
Hamilton definitely used to push Rosberg off track when he attempted to overtake on the outside.
It's been a few years so perhaps my memory is hazy, but I seem to remember it being more when the two cars were side by side; no one particularly in front so Hamilton would just take the racing line and yes, Rosberg would end up being pushed off.
With Max it's quite different because even when the overtaking car gets well past Max's car and has the move done, he just keeps off the brakes with no real attempt to make the corner & runs then out wide, by virtue of the fact he can't make the corner on the line he is on. He doesn't attempt to even make the corner himself.
So... Not so Secret Santa?
Seems to me that when points are added to your licence they should come off your championship score. Otherwise what’s the, er…, point?
Accrue 12 in a calendar year and it is a one race ban...
Also, since when did race stewards negotiate with teams as to what penalty they would like??? Surely as stewards with an experienced driving standards rep they should just hand down the penalty and the teams such it up.
Masi isn’t a steward. Ordinarily, for obvious reasons, he sorts out the ‘you need to give that place back’ issues straight after they occur. If the teams don’t do what they’re supposed to Masi refers it to the stewards who assess it and impose a penalty if required.
The only difference here is that the red flag happened so soon there was no time for the normal process, so they sorted out during the stoppage. It wasn’t negotiating a penalty, it didn’t get that far, because they sorted it out in the normal way, just not in the normal place.
With Max it’s quite different because even when the overtaking car gets well past Max’s car and has the move done, he just keeps off the brakes with no real attempt to make the corner & runs then out wide, by virtue of the fact he can’t make the corner on the line he is on. He doesn’t attempt to even make the corner himself
I think this sums it up perfectly with Max.
A lights to flag boring race victory for Hamilton is what I'm hoping for so that there's no silly conspiracies or stewards intervention that decides it.
When asked if his opinion of Hamilton and Mercedes had changed over the course of their battle, Verstappen was blunt. “Yes, very much so,” he said. “And not in a positive way.”
He continued with a sense of grievance, expressing his belief that he was being unfairly singled out by the stewards in Saudi Arabia.
“Clearly only I was wrong somehow, other people do exactly the same thing and get nothing,” he added. “Both of us were off the track into turn one and somehow they judged that it was my fault, that I don’t agree with. It’s not how it should be, it’s not fair because it seems like other drivers can do different things, and it seems like only I get a penalty
Maybe his anger and false sense of victimisation is what he needs to motivate himself but that doesn't sound like the talk of a champion to me. Still sounding like a petulant teenager.
A lights to flag boring race victory for Hamilton is what I’m hoping for so that there’s no silly conspiracies or stewards intervention that decides it.
I'm hoping Bottas takes out Verstappen and Perez at the first corner so I can listen to more moaning from Karen.
Haha...not
I'm with the others, I am actually wishing for a dull, processional race (with Hamilton at the front, obvs). Which says a lot about how mental it's got over the last few races!!
From that press conference its pretty obvious that Lewis appears to be living rent free in Max's head.