MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
It says in the report posted above. 69bar of pressure going through the brakes.
Also, oof. Not cool.
This conversation with FIA AND RB is embarrassing. Why the * is the race director making them offers?! Just apply the rules you * cowboys.
Race control has been pretty shocking this year. If they're not going to be positive in their decisions in accordance with the rules then all kinds of weirdness will ensue on track. Communications seem to be pretty poor too.
Ha ha. 2.4g off braking. That's not just a dab.
Horner said to the C4 crew that "Max lifted, didn't brake hard or anything like that". Eh? You what...?
The woman interviewer (can't remember her name) then specifically asked whether Max braked because Lewis claims that he did and Horner said nope, he didn't (in more words than that). Whoops.
Weird. He kinda hovered around the middle of the track, weaved around a bit and then jabbed the brakes before driving off.
Can't believe for that he got a penalty-non penalty...
I can't see how the last race won't be a case of Max taking out Lewis if it comes down to the wire.
That the one of the worst gp's I've seen that's run the distance in 30 years of watching.
Unnecessary street circuit, a driver that can't be overtaken without an accident and a backwards step in safety. Sure it made great TV but as a race it was shit.
Well… I must admit I didn’t really give any credence to the allegations of Verstappen actually braking. Because to have braked would have been really stupid. The fact that he slowed on the racing line and repeatedly changed direction while doing so was somewhat out of order, and flooring it immediately after the collision was really weird… but you’d have to be really dumb to actually hit the brake. You’d also have to be pretty dumb to be a team principal saying “absolutely not” when asked directly whether your driver braked. It’s as if they’ve forgotten that telemetry exists.
Let’s just hope the next one’s a clean fight.
I don’t see what the fuss is about Massi sorting out the giving the place back matter the way he did. It’s in the regs that it’s at the race directors discretion to give a driver who has gained an advantage by going off the track an opportunity to concede that advantage back. And that opportunity is nearly always given, and if taken negates the need to refer it up to the stewards. The only difference here is that the red flag so soon after it happened meant the normal practice couldn’t be followed, so they sorted it out in the pit lane.
Mental race but pretty poor really despite lots of drama.
Are there no rules about giving places back whereby you can't just do it strategically with an aim to immediately take it back again. If there isn't surely there should be?
I don't think it was a brake check as such, just a dumb move by Verstappen. He was required to let Hamilton past, but wanted to do that before the DRS zone so that he (Verstappen) could then retake the lead using DRS. Hamilton knew this and was holding back until the DRS zone. Max tried to force Hamilton to pass by braking. It was a dumb move but I don't think it was a deliberate brake check.
Verstappen has had penalty points added to his licence. This is similar to Hamilton's Silverstone penalty, where the time penalty was meaningless but the driver was given penalty points. The stewards have made their decision, I think it's time to drop it and look forward to what should be a smashing final race.
what should be a smashing final race.
Interesting word to choose, you might be right 🙂
Are there no rules about giving places back whereby you can’t just do it strategically with an aim to immediately take it back again. If there isn’t surely there should be?
Rules were brought in after Hamilton and Raikkonen both did the same thing to each other at Spa in '08 but for some reason Massi has ignored that completely.
Verstappen has had penalty points added to his licence. This is similar to Hamilton’s Silverstone penalty, where the time penalty was meaningless but the driver was given penalty points. The stewards have made their decision, I think it’s time to drop it and look forward to what should be a smashing final race.
Not similar at all as one was in a corner with an overtake and defence whereas this one was a deliberate act in having to give a place back and the conscious actions of Verstappen being found to be dangerous.
As for dropping it? This has set the tone for the final race and how the championship will be remembered. This will run on until lights out on Sunday and will also be a deciding factor in how any moves in the final race are judged. If you want to see how this should all be happening correctly go watch the '98 and '99 seasons for when Hakkinen and Schumacher slugged it out just as intensely but with the utmost respect for each other.
Quite funny that when the "investigating" graphic came up for verstappen the commentators didn't know which of his many incidents it was for.
Also quite funny that both helmet and Karen said categorically that Max did not brake according to "their data".
If you want to see how this should all be happening correctly go watch the ’98 and ’99 seasons for when Hakkinen and Schumacher slugged it out just as intensely but with the utmost respect for each other.
After Schumacher had all his points taken off him in ‘97 for trying to ram Villenueve out of the title race… is that where Max is now?
I don’t think it was a brake check as such, just a dumb move by Verstappen. He was required to let Hamilton past, but wanted to do that before the DRS zone so that he (Verstappen) could then retake the lead using DRS. Hamilton knew this and was holding back until the DRS zone. Max tried to force Hamilton to pass by braking. It was a dumb move but I don’t think it was a deliberate brake check.
Whether he meant for Hamilton to hit him or not, these are supposed to be drivers at the peak of their powers. How dumb does it have to be before it's called for what it was. I can't believe he didn't realise what the outcome could be.
2.4g is 24m/s/s give or take, or scrubbing the equivalent of 80kph or 50mph off in a second. I just looked up and the reaction time at a F1 start is between 0.2 and 0.3s (measured as time from lights out to action, not just the time to process that the lights are out) That's for something they know's going to happen; assuming LH wasn't waiting for MV to brake test him, it's probably reasonable to accept LH would have a reaction time at the top end or above that. By which time MV has taken 25-35kph off his speed.
Which the video shows; MV comes backwards into LH rather than the other way round (LH doesn't accelerate into him) I just can't believe Horner and Marko didn't have the data immediately, and still came out (and MV too) and pointed the blame at LH. Makes them look even more arsehole than previous incidents.
Is there a 'disrepute' charge, because they're regularly bringing the sport into disrepute.
Odd one in that verdict.
Hamilton apparently did not know Verstappen had been told to give the place back.
But did know that Verstappen was trying to give him the place before the DRS line and didn’t want it back before the DRS line.
Which do the stewards think it was?
Ahhh, the memories - that race took me back to my youth.
Unfortunately it's a great memory of playing Wipeout on the PS1 rather than watching F1 😉
Which do the stewards think it was?
I think the stewards decided in the end that 1. they knew LH at that point hadn't been told that MV had to give the place up, and 2. MV lent on the brakes a bit too heavily to force the issue to take advantage of the DRS zone. That's what the penalty was for.
That LH didn't go for the O/T was a bit of misdirection really.
Ceding your position after you’ve gained an illegal advantage is sportsmanship 101. The whole point is to put your hands up and say “yeah, sorry about that old boy, I shouldn’t have done that!” Not to game the rules so you can do an instant re-overtake making the whole gesture meaningless.
Max and Red Bull are bringing the sport into disrepute and they don’t care. If they win either or both championships then they will be forever tainted.
Yeah, this. Meanwhile Lewis has been looking graceful and serene by comparison. If HAM wins, it’ll be deserved and he’ll have achieved it despite some very desperate tactics from VER/RB. If VER wins, it’ll define his career as the aggressive guy who will take you out to win.
I can’t see VER winning without some in-race controversy next week. It’s certainly going to be an interesting one.
Whether he meant for Hamilton to hit him or not, these are supposed to be drivers at the peak of their powers. How dumb does it have to be before it’s called for what it was. I can’t believe he didn’t realise what the outcome could be.
That's why he was given penalty points. The stewards decided that it was not acceptable driving. They've made their decision, time to move on.
I’m not in the slightest bit familiar with the rule book on giving a place back but surely the wording should be something like “it must be carried out by clearly moving off the racing line, holding your position and slowed by lifting off the throttle. Braking is not permitted.”
Either that or put an orange LED in the brake harvesting lights so they can indicate that they’re pulling over…
time to move on.
It's like decolonising the curriculum all over again...
They’ve made their decision, time to move on.
Except RB are appealing the decision.
Can stewards increase the punishment? I'd be tempted to say it's better be good Helmut because we're now playing double or quits.
I have some sympathy with Max questioning why he was penalised 5 seconds for forcing Hamilton (and himself) off the road as Lewis overtook....after all, he did exactly that in Brazil and was told it was fine!
And funnily enough, that's exactly what all the other drivers said would happen after the Brazil verdict!
RB are appealing the decision.
Really? Why would they give themselves that distraction heading into the most highest-pressure weekend they’ve had in about a decade, given that the penalty basically cost them nothing?
Except RB are appealing the decision.
Got a source, haven't that reported anywhere - and not sure why they'd bother appealing a non penalty unless they want to lose the 2 points off Maxs tally, just so there's a bit more headroom in the unlikely event that he does something controversial again
Its not like Hamilton has been squeaky clean either - earlier incident in the season where he was found to be in the wrong after punting Verstappen out but did not get significant punishment
IMO put another driver out - you should not be able to benefit. Both these guys have done this this season and got away with it.
The one eyed view of some on here is funny
this has been escalating all season with tit for tat foul play but some of you cannot see
The whole race was a farce
Can stewards increase the punishment?
Happened to Irvine - got a 1 race ban, increased to 3 on appeal, I think. Jos was involved in that, IIRC! 🙂
The one eyed view of some on here is funny
Yes some people are so desperate to be anti anything with an English connection despite being English themselves. Very strange.
The one eyed view of some on here is funny
In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Anyhow, mods to Yas Marina so we can't compare with last year, and of course Merc & Ham had wrapped everything up so it was a vanity race, but Max got pole and walked away with the race. Whatever happens I hope we get something a bit more interesting (but not too interesting!) next weekend.
The one eyed view of some on here is funny
Ok, I think by now we get your message, even if it lacks a fair chunk of self-awareness.
Inadvisably raking over old coals, I would point out that one notable aspect of the Silverstone penalty is that the stewards seemed to contradict the FIA’s own direction for judging who “has” a corner in that scenario. Mercedes were clearly already very familiar with this prior to the incident, so Hamilton would have engaged on those terms, and when viewed in that light it looks entirely like Max was primarily at fault.
the long lap penalty in motogp has worked really well. I'm a bit surprised F1 hasn't gone the same route. Maybe the tracks don't accommodate it so easily? But with all the run-off areas these days you'd think it'd be a simple job to paint a loop in.
But with all the run-off areas these days you’d think it’d be a simple job to paint a loop in.
Most tracks wouldn’t accommodate that. I think they’d have to save up all year and then do all of them at Paul Ricard 😉
I can’t see VER winning without some in-race controversy next week. It’s certainly going to be an interesting one.
They must already have manufactured the WDC hats etc to wear next race?
So, when Max crashes then both out at some point in the final race, the whole Merc team should just start walking around the pits and paddock wearing the champion’s hats. No appeals to race directors, no comments. Just wear the hats.
It would be worth it to see Karen actually explode.
I think they’d have to save up all year and then do all of them at Paul Ricard
And it wouldn’t be fair to do them there because everyone would get lost!
I think they could provide more direction on where to give a place back so it would be a) safe and b) actually giving the place back properly without gaming the DRS zone. So maybe “max, give LH the place back by slowing down before pit entry”. Simple and effective.
Yes some people are so desperate to be anti anything with an English connection despite being English themselves. Very strange.
LOL. I was expecting to see the racism card played again, just not that one! 😂
The one eyed view of some on here is funny
That's what? The elenventy second time you made the same point now. Can we just agree that you find partisanship in sport* odd, and you don't like Hamilton, and move on to some thing more interesting?
*Which is weird in of itself, as y'know, supporting one side against the other is pretty much the raison d'etre of sport, but you know that, I'm sure.
Yes some people are so desperate to be anti anything with an English connection despite being English themselves. Very strange.
Now now Grum - how yo can twist this into anti englishness when all I am doing is trying to look at it neutrally to counter the totally one eyed view....
Not like you Grum to chuck around weird false accusations! 🙂
And a classic example of the one eyed. ", so Hamilton would have engaged on those terms, and when viewed in that light it looks entirely like Max was primarily at fault." despite the experts who looked at it deciding otherwise but in your eyes Hamilton can do no wrong
Also note I praised Hamiltons response in the press conference here and have praised him in the past.
You guys are weird!
I think they could provide more direction on where to give a place back so it would be a) safe and b) actually giving the place back properly without gaming the DRS zone. So maybe “max, give LH the place back by slowing down before pit entry”. Simple and effective.
Which would rely on both/all drivers being aware simultaneously. We're still not sure if Hamilton was ignorant of the penalty or was intentionally slowing down to avoid the DRS line
Even if Max takes the title this year, I think we can safely say Max won't be getting anywhere near Schumacher and Hamiltons number of titles. He doesn't have the mentality to build a championship. This one should have been done and dusted for him long ago.
Much as I feel that Verstappen is an entitled little brat and a dangerous driver to boot - I'd admire him more if he just punts Hamilton off in the first corner at Abu Dhabi and walks away from the wreckage with the title.
Then at least we'd have no pretense that Red Bull are trying race fairly or be sporting in any sense of the word.
It worked for Senna and Schumacher (mostly).
in your eyes Hamilton can do no wrong
Oh please, get a grip. For what it’s worth, on initial viewing I thought it looked to be primarily Hamilton’s fault. I wasn’t aware of the FIA guidance until after the race. But when I see new facts I can change my mind. I’m sorry that this doesn’t fit your persistently one-eyed narrative.
I think they could provide more direction on where to give a place back so it would be a) safe and b) actually giving the place back properly without gaming the DRS zone. So maybe “max, give LH the place back by slowing down before pit entry”. Simple and effective.
There's already a long accepted way of safely letting someone retake a place without losing too much time - and it isn't by dropping 5 gears on a straight, moving and then braking! 🙂
.after all, he did exactly that in Brazil and was told it was fine!
I think this point deserves more discussion. The stewarding decision made at Turn 4 at Brazil is coming around to bite folks on the bum, just as many predicted it would.
Which would rely on both/all drivers being aware simultaneously. We’re still not sure if Hamilton was ignorant of the penalty or was intentionally slowing down to avoid the DRS line
Surely it’s very simple, at least in the case of a stewards’ direction rather than a team pre-empting it. You first tell the team who are entitled to retake the place. When they’ve confirmed that their driver has the information, you instruct the other team.
As for whether Hamilton was aware, I thought the ruling acknowledged that he wasn’t?
@TJ I don't think many people were actually massive Hamilton fans but people have been impressed with his stance on racism/human rights issues and taken his side over the reckless MV and his, let's face it, often racist, incredibly one-eyed fans, and the odious Horner, and some very odd/poor stewarding decisions. I know I have.
Making Mercedes/Wolff seem like the underdog/nice guy is quite a feat.
My suspicion is that there was some kind of jockeying/game of chicken type stuff going on. Hamilton wondering but not knowing for sure if he was being given the place back but definitely not expecting such sudden slowing down (or the obvious wobble towards him) - Hamilton knowing if he was being given the place back MV would try to take it right back so not wanting to do it on the wrong place. Conversely Verstappen keen to get on with it to give him the best chance of taking it straight back. Then combined with an element of Verstappen not really giving a **** if Hamilton crashes into him and having aggressive instincts he isn't really fully in control of.
Might be complete BS but that's my take.on it.
The swerve towards Hamilton is pretty damning isn't it? What possible justification could there be for that. Also I'd like to see Horner punished for straight up lying about the braking, but I'm not sure there's a mechanism for that.
@TJ I don’t think many people were actually massive Hamilton fans but people have been impressed with his stance on racism/human rights issues
Yup - count me as one. I see Hamilton as a man who had to grow up in the public eye but was very cossetted so did not do the growing up till later on in life. I totally agree about that - his reaction to BLM was spot on IMO and I gained huge respect for him for that.
A lot of drivers cross the line that separates "uncompromising" from "dirty". Max seems to be permanently on the wrong side of it though.
Can anyone remember a clean overtake on him?
I thought the ruling acknowledged that he wasn’t?
It does. That Hamilton didn't overtake is a red herring here. Verstappen's plan was very clearly to let Hamilton past, and take advantage of the DRS zone (it is, after all what he eventually tried to do later on) Hamilton clearly didn't know what Verstappen was doing, and the stamp on the brakes didn't help either of them in the end. I think it was probably born of frustration and anxiety to win, the pressure on both of them is tremendous after all.
Its not like Hamilton has been squeaky clean either – earlier incident in the season where he was found to be in the wrong after punting Verstappen out but did not get significant punishment
1. Lewis was found to be predominantly at fault, but Max was also assigned blame as he could've backed out like Lewis did at the race before and thus avoided a collision. They touched, it was a minor impact but spun Max out. The punishment was for the collision, not the result, which is fair as had that impact happened at Paul Ricard, max would've likely stopped before hitting the barriers...admittedly, his tyres would've been ruined.
Just to say, I'm a LH fan, but up until the last few races, I thought MV has had a better season and driven really well, if aggressively and would've been a worthy champion, but recently RB and MV have become somewhat loathsome.
if he just punts Hamilton off in the first corner at Abu Dhabi and walks away from the wreckage with the title.
If a first corner punt happens that way I think it’ll be 50:50 if max takes the title or gets a DSQ.
And either way way I think it’ll end up in court, whoever waves silverware around.
The way I feel about the “race” last night right now I’d be happy if the whole 2021 season was just called off. Annulled. Let’s just have ‘21 get in the sea and try again next time.
Meh - can't get too excited about the stewards decision on this one. What is striking though is that Max genuinely doesn't seem to believe the rules apply to him as a whole - that he should be able to drive how he wants, make any manoeuvre her feels is necessary and be just fine and screw the other guy.
Drive like a dick, get penalised is very much F1 and the sooner he realises that the better. He could have had this title wrapped up a fair time ago had he took that on board.
Anyway - it has set the scene for next week to be an absolute belter. If Max wins fair and square good on him and he deserves the title. If he tries it one and crashes out or get s a race deciding penalty then good - it would be fair also. If Lewis wins fair and square then he deserves the championship and has proved - particularly in Brazil and in Saudi - why he is considered on of the true GOATs of the sport
It worked for Senna
It did, although Senna in 1990 did it as revenge for 1989, as much for Balestre screwing him over as Prost’s manoeuvre. So while it was absolutely a deliberate crash to win the title, it was to put right a previous injustice (at least in Senna and many other peoples mind).
So did we get a crash count?
I think
Hamilton hit Verstappen twice (one the brake test incident, one at restart one) and Ocon once (restart two).
Verstappen hit Hamilton twice (one the brake test incident, one at restart one).
Can anyone continue the list?
PS clean overtake from Verstappen? Second restart, third to first while Hamilton was creating sparks (lovely photo incidentally) by leaning on Ocon.
Can anyone remember a clean overtake on him?
I was mulling that earlier. Trying to recall the last time someone got alongside him without either there being contact for someone, or someone being forced off-track. I’m all for tough racing and would rather see most of those moves than endless stewards’ decisions, but it’s a bit too monotonous and often a bit too lacking in awareness of where it goes past tough moves into dick moves. There’s no doubt for me, though, that yesterday’s collision is unequivocally into dick moves (again, something I’ve shifted my opinion on somewhat because I honestly did not believe he’d been so stupid as to hit the brake).
I hope Max and Lewis get read the riot act ahead of next week's decider, in that unsportsmanlike driving will result in disqualification from the season, as applied to Schumacher in '97 in the title deciding antics against Villeneuve at Jerez.
Surely it’s very simple, at least in the case of a stewards’ direction rather than a team pre-empting it. You first tell the team who are entitled to retake the place. When they’ve confirmed that their driver has the information, you instruct the other team.
That would seem to be a sensible approach.
PS clean overtake from Verstappen? Second restart, third to first
I think the question was about people being 'allowed' to overtake him without him doing something reckless to stop them.
It appears to me that Red Bull got the tactics wrong in a couple of areas.
Changing to medium tyres appeared to give them no benefit after the initial overtake. I am guessing they were hoping to pull away before the but that did not happen.
Interestingly, Lewis questioned not switching to mediums and the team gave areassuring reply (they were right). The same happened last week when Hamilton questioned why he came in to change the tyres when he was flying. The answer came shortly after when Bottas punctured. It seems that Mercedes have greater trust in the data and are less impulsive.
Then even with the damage to the front wing Hamilton was setting fastest laps. This could be to do with tyre wear on the red bull. But there is also the question of whether Red Bull set the car up to have more down force at the compromise of speed. Verstappen's qualifying lap would suggest they had the potential to go faster. Which supports that to some extent.
What is striking though is that Max genuinely doesn’t seem to believe the rules apply to him as a whole
I think you could make a case for most F1 drivers believing that to be true. All of them are just super A type personalities who really can't understand why everyone else hasn't realised their individual genius at driving and just either given them the best car or got out of their way. I think to drive F1 you sort of have to be like that.
The interesting thing is that in his career in the lower formulas, Russell had the very same reputation as Verstappen (we saw it briefly this year when he tried to "overtake" by occupying the same time and space as Bottas). Next year is going to be a banger...
If a first corner punt happens that way I think it’ll be 50:50 if max takes the title or gets a DSQ.
He’d have to be DQ’d from the season, though, not just the race, and n order to lose the title. That’s only happened once before, and I suspect in no small part because it was the second year in a row where—in a great many people’s eyes—the same guy did the same thing for the same reason. That’s not the case here.
Unfortunately I don’t think there’s much that can stop Max taking the title *if* he wanted to (and could) deliberately take Hamilton out of the race. Question is, when the chips are down, are his dad’s genes actually going to come through that strong?
I hope Max and Lewis get read the riot act ahead of next week’s decider, in that unsportsmanlike driving will result in disqualification from the season
I hope so too - it risks bringing the sport into disrepute if there's any deliberate actions to force someone off the track in order to win the WDC.
I want to see it won fairly, not 3 days later after a load of stewards decisions, appeals and deliberations.
Cynic in me says the F1 ‘owners’ will tolerate anything that is ‘drama’ and creates news headlines. At the same time they’re alienating die-hards I expect there’s a lot of newbies or casual returners (me), who are lighting up a viewing figures + tweets executive dashboard and getting the marketeers and financiers frothing.
Verstappen is a complete ****ing bellend though.
It seems that Mercedes have greater trust in the data and are less impulsive.
This. Mercedes are super impressive here. Inevitably it’s occasionally the wrong call but 9 times out of 10 they make the right decision regardless of the pressure. A few times over the last couple of years I’ve really struggled to understand a call when it’s made but then either by the end of the race I’m proved wrong or it turns out in the post-race insights that it was justified.
And yeah, I also wondered why Red Bull fitted mediums for the restart… seemed like they’d been handed a free stop and then boxed themselves into either too much deg or having to make an additional late stop. I wondered whether they were gambling on lots of safety car laps allowing them to extend the life.
I wondered whether they were gambling on lots of safety car laps allowing them to extend the life.
I thought the same, I think it almost worked, one or two more SC/VSC periods would have been enough.
What a dick Schumacher was! What Verstappen did yesterday is not close to Schumacher's antics.
There’s no doubt for me, though, that yesterday’s collision is unequivocally into dick moves (again, something I’ve shifted my opinion on somewhat because I honestly did not believe he’d been so stupid as to hit the brake).
I was 50:50 too. I thought Lewis was a bit clumsy but Max was slowing in in stupid place. But to have actually braked, that's really quite shitty driving.
The same happened last week when Hamilton questioned why he came in to change the tyres when he was flying. The answer came shortly after when Bottas punctured. It seems that Mercedes have greater trust in the data and are less impulsive.
100+ years of teutonic efficiency vs CAFFEINE!! CAFFEINE!! IN MASSIVE DOSES! AND SUGAR!
🤣
Surely what happens next race will come down to who has the fastest car in race trim, if Hamilton has the race pace and qualifies first then he will likely play the long game and let Verstappen past in any kamikaze manoeuvres then look to get past during pit stops. If Max is on pole and has the race pace then would he be calm enough to let Hamilton past and play the long game?
That’s only happened once before, and I suspect in no small part because it was the second year in a row where—in a great many people’s eyes—the same guy did the same thing for the same reason. That’s not the case here.
Are you talking about Schumacher here? If so it was 94 and 97. He absolutely annihilated everyone in 95 and 96 was the absolute pig of a Ferrari
Yes, sorry, got my dates confused—96 was of course Hill’s championship year. Duh!
I struggled to keep up with the twists and turns when watching this last night so have tried to summarise below. This might help keep track of which incident on which lap with which driver peoiple are discussing
Race Start - Hamilton keeps the lead
Lap 10 - Crash and safety car deployed. Hamilton pits under the safety car. Verstappen stays out, and inherits the race lead.
L14 - Red flag halts the race. Verstappen changes tyres under a red flag.
L15 - Race restarts with Verstappen first but Hamilton gets a better start. Verstappen cuts the corner and takes back the lead.
L16 - Race restarts again. Michael Masi puts Verstappen behind Hamilton but Verstappen passes him on the inside into the first corner.
L37 - Hamilton passes Verstappen but both run wide. Verstappen is asked to give the position to Hamilton. Verstappen slows brake tests Hamilton and damages his front wing.
L38 - Hamilton radio: “He just brake-tested me! I’ve just hit him, man, my wing’s broken.
L42 - Verstappen gives Hamilton the lead but takes it back immediately.
L43 - Stewards give Verstappen a five-second time penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Verstappen lets Hamilton through into the lead. “We didn’t need to do that, Max,” his engineer tells him
Race finish - Hamilton wins and scores fastest lap.
YOu missed Bottas backing up Verstappen on lap 10
I am more pro-Lewis as I like what he does as a person. I am more anti-Verstappen because of how he behaves as a driver. I try to stay neutral when judging incidents so here are my thoughts for discussion based on the timeline above.
L14 - Strange call to red flag but assuming no conspiracy it was 'lucky' for Red Bull
L15 - WTF was that at the start by Verstappen? Same as Brazil and it was wrong there too
L16 - Weird judgement by Masi but I thought it was the more sporting decision even if it possibly ignored rules. Great start by Verstappen.
L37 - Max should get DQ for brake test and dangerous driving. Clearly not the normal way of letting a car regain a place. Race Control need to learn the order in which to tell people about these things so the over taker knows before the over takee.
L42 - This is a rule break by Verstappen as far as I can tell
L43 - Not sure why Max gave up the place but as his tyres were shot I suspect Lewis would have taken him anyway. Possibly for post race appeals to show that he wanted to give the position back to Lewis and was mis-judged on the earlier incident?
And Verstappens practice start in the pit lane, and Hamilton being more than 10 car lengths behind him - which I think I heard radio saying was allowed as it was a formation lap, not an SC restart.
Surely what happens next race will come down to who has the fastest car in race trim
Last year Verstappen was on pole by a long way and pranced off into the distance leaving everyone else for dust.
They explained the red flag decision on Sky when it happened. Apparently the concern was in the Tecpro was damaged they'd need to get a crane on the circuit and that would necessitate a red flag.
There was a fair amount of barrier to examine and with marshals very much in the firing line and given if they did find damage they'd have to stop the race anyway the decision was it was safer just to stop, properly check the barrier and repair if necessary rather than lots of laps behind the safety car, marshals in danger and then perhaps having to stop anyway.
@TJ I don’t think many people were actually massive Hamilton fans but people have been impressed with his stance on racism/human rights issues and taken his side over the reckless MV and his, let’s face it, often racist, incredibly one-eyed fans, and the odious Horner, and some very odd/poor stewarding decisions. I know I have.
Making Mercedes/Wolff seem like the underdog/nice guy is quite a feat.
Pretty much sums it up. I find Hamilton easy to dislike at times but his on-track ability deserves respect. He definitely races to the limit, but all the top drivers do. Thing is, I think guys like Hamilton and Alonso will push to the absolute limit without stepping over the line - yes, they make mistakes sometimes but I don't think they are deliberately dirty drivers. Verstappen is clearly very talented but his behaviour is often childish and petulant and his belief that it's fine to just push other drivers off the track is way over the line. I think the stewards need to take a lot of the blame for not coming down much harder when all this nonsense started. As the other drivers have said, nobody knows for sure what's acceptable or unacceptable any more.
The real hero of this race was whoever designed the Merc front wing. Two big whacks and still setting fastest laps. I thought for sure it would be failing next kerb he went over.
I was slightly surprised that Hamilton wasn’t black flagged due to the obvious damage to the wing.