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There was also something about all the manhole covers needing to be massively strengthened / bolted down to avoid being sucked into the underside of the car.
yup, thats an issue even at proper circuits. Probably even more from next year with the increase in under car generated downforce
I thought the London GP was the sort of story that Bernie rolled out during the winter to keep F1 in the news – it’s been talked about for years but has never come to pass.
Yup, or when he was negotiating a new contract with Silverstone.
A street gp in London would be as pointless and farcical as Monaco. Still it we’ll probably suit the money men which is all that counts
Hamilton taking a 5 place penalty...new IC unit
Ooft! Not looking good for Hamilton then.
But there are worse track to take a grid penalty than Brazil.
If, and its a big "if", he has a pace advantage he could make that back up fairly easily.
Maybe Bottas could get on Pole and hold up Verstappen
😀 😀 😀
Only kidding
Maybe Bottas could get on Pole and hold up Verstappen
One of those is far more likely than the other...
So, does the grid penalty only apply for the sprint race?
I suspect not....
markgraylish
Free MemberSo, does the grid penalty only apply for the sprint race?
I suspect not….
I think Jolyon or the one who sounds exactly like him said it applies on the race start
Nope, otherwise there’d be tactical swaps all over the place
No. Proper qualifying decides the sprint start then that result decides the proper start with penalties applied then.
Anyone else find the sprint thing rather pointless? Apart from spoiling Checo's qualifying it has had no noticeable effect on anything and the two we've had so far have been rather dull.
The sprint format was introduced to try to add a focus to each day of the F1 weekend, and to hopefully shake up the grid for the race. While it's made Friday afternoons more important its made Saturday mornings pretty pointless and the sprint races haven't delivered much of note.
I believe that although the sprint event format is being retained next year there will likely be some changes - possibly more points available to make it worth fighting for places, possibly keeping quali places from Friday for the main race. All to be discussed after this weekends event, let's hope they come up with something worthwhile!
Fwiw I've seen at least 5 quali methods in F1 - 60mins free for all, single lap quali, Bernies awful time based knockout, sprint races and the current 3 stage knockout which is still my favourite.
I used to hate the current format compared to the free for all. Now I like it. the sprint race seems pointless to me and adds nothing. Yet.
60mins and 12 laps will always have a place in my heart……….. but when it was bad it was really, really bad
Remind me what the time based knockout was?
Enjoy
What a lap 😮
Oh yeah...that really was shit (not the lap, the elimination qualy format)
Ooo, possible technical infringement on Hamilton's rear wing...
https://twitter.com/SomersF1/status/1459277471824719877
If he gets done for that he’s pretty stuffed for tomorrow. The wing would have to be changed but, regardless of what they do with his qualifying time, the cars are in parc ferme so he’d have to start from the pit lane
Read something earlier regarding Paul Monaghan and Adrian Newey going to the stewards before qualifying regarding the Merc wing flexing too much at speed.
Watched a clip of Max filmed from the stands comparing the RB rear wing to the Merc rear wing using the four fingered tape measure method.
So now Verstappen is facing possible penalty for touching Hamilton's car. He was obviously following deliberate instructions on what to do, it wasn't just a casual thing. Merc will be arguing that the complaint against them is invalid because Max messed with their car. This is gonna make a great Drive to Survive subplot.
This is gonna make a great Drive to Survive subplot
Except Max isn't cooperating with Drive to Survive....he doesn't like it
I’m still pinning my hopes on the whole series being based on Haas
Merc will be arguing that the complaint against them is invalid because Max messed with their car.
Did Max touch the Merc before or after it got measured for rear wing compliance? I imagine if it was the former there's a potential allegation of tampering which is a very serious offence.
Although the easy answer is simply to say that Merc won't face any penalty for possibly having a non-compliant wing and Max won't face any penalty for possibly tampering and could both teams please mind their own business.
Did Max touch the Merc before or after it got measured for rear wing compliance?
As far as I can tell, he got straight out of his car, played with his own rear wing, then went over to Hamilton's car and did the same. He didn't touch any other cars. The fact that only Hamilton's car is affected suggests to me that it's probably just a set-up mistake or a faulty/damaged part. If it was a design problem, surely both cars would have been affected.
Merc have obviously messed up with Hamilton's car and Red Bull obviously told Max what to do after qualifying. Not really the drivers' faults. Assuming that the fault with Hamilton's wing didn't give a major advantage, I'm hoping that both teams get fined and qualifying positions are retained for the sake of the racing.
https://twitter.com/adrianosoaresp/status/1459339739664945159
I didn’t realise drivers weren’t allowed to touch another drivers car, but it makes sense.
The clip above is a lot clearer than the one I watched, does Max actually touch the car though?
It could be that Hamilton is running a different spec of rear wing to Bottas and only his car is affected?
From what I can gather, any penalties will apply to the sprint race and not Sunday.
Surely DRS operation will be an open and shut case.
😜
Surely DRS operation will be an open and shut case.
Open and shut and open and shut and open and ....
https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/1459291893695754246
Wouldn't want to be the people making the decision...it could decide the championship right there
Verstappen fined €50,000!
50k for touching a car in parc ferme. Be interested to see what punishment an illegal rear wing results in.
That’s one expensive finger tickle! 🤣🤣
Decision on Hamilton should really have been made by now, taking far too long. DRS is either illegal or had broken. Can’t see why there’s any grey area.
Did anyone else see Red Bull just happen to be testing their rear wing as the cameras peered into their garage during testing?
Only for the gauge to be pushed through the wing.
50k for touching a car in parc ferme. Be interested to see what punishment an illegal rear wing results in.
If they backdate it, Vettel could be bankrupt.
£50k Loose change to a millionaire.
Hamilton starts from the back
That's the championship decided then....
Wonder if they bought any more engines with them this weekend? May as well chuck another one in now and all the other gubbins as well as he’ll be pretty much starting last in main race now too! 😀
What a shame
Is it worth changing all aspects of the power train etc at the same time or can they not do that?
Ahh man! I was really looking forward to them lining up alongside each other at the front of the grid for the sprint. I agree this could be curtains for Hamilton’s title fight. FFS
That’s the championship decided then….
Yep.
Will Buxton has tweeted that it's shaping up to be an incredible weekend - can't see how, given that in all likelihood Max will be on Pole and Lewis will be at or near the back in the main race. Max will just canter off into the distance.
I just hope we get angry Lewis and not sulky Lewis this weekend.
A safety car or inclement weather could throw this race in any direction.
I wonder what the going rate is to get Bottas to drive into Max at the start?
Whatever places Lewis makes up in the sprint race is pretty much irrelevant as he still has to take his 5 place penalty in the proper race. Only hope for the championship is a DNF for Max unfortunately.
Fwiw I’ve seen at least 5 quali methods in F1 – 60mins free for all, single lap quali, Bernies awful time based knockout, sprint races and the current 3 stage knockout which is still my favourite.
Track cycling solved this. It’s called the Devil. Last one across each lap is eliminated. You’ll see it overtaking then 😂
I know it's not exactly an original thought, but should the driver be punished for the teams mistakes? By doing so, the WDC is probably settled now, ruining what could have been an exciting end to the season. Why not deduct any constructors points that Hamilton gets in this race? Allegedly the Constructors is worth more to a team than the WDC (financially at least).
I've not really thought thru the "fairness" of that on Verstappen / Red Bull).
Tbf I thought the same, but how would the stewards gauge the advantage (if any) Hamilton gained from the rear wing and adjust his qualifying position to suit?
It’s just a shame at this stage of the season it potentially has such a massive impact.
Hamilton gained from the rear wing and adjust his qualifying position to suit?
They wouldn't..just carry on without demoting drivers, then deduct whatever points Hamilton's car wins in the race (and sprint) from Mercedes' constructors points. WDC points not affected.
I think the lap time and how far ahead of RB he was swayed them to investigate and then have to do the DQ route, it surprised everyone how far ahead the McLaren was, then this came out, they just have to take it on the chin as it's mechanically outside of the spec.
Plus Redbull allegedly alerted the stewards to investigate.
I'm not saying the team shouldn't be punished...they're bang to rights. But punish the team not the driver
What would the reaction in the UK have been if the roles had been reversed??
I doubt if there would be a call for Verstapen to keep his WDC points
Plus Redbull allegedly alerted the stewards to investigate.
And Mercedes wouldn’t have??
I assume merc will now give Hamilton a brand new engine battery and anything else that incurs a penalty for changing.
Hopefully Bottas will turn up and race this weekend to keep max honest and try and stress the red bull in the hope something breaks
Edit..can't be arsed
Cracking drive from Lewis that, saving the best overtake for last.
Lolz, Bono reminding him not to touch anyone else’s cars 😂
Cracking race for Hamilton & full marks for bottas's celebration 😄
Toto - “…something…something…**** them all”
😀
WHAT A DRIVE!!!
Great job by Sainz and Bottas as well
Wow, that’s how to race! Well done Lewis!!
Amazing drive from Lewis.
Finishing a few seconds behind 3rd from 20th, and he almost had no right to put that move in on Lando.
Max looking a little worried but can afford to play it safe. Can’t wait for tomorrow.
Blimey. Who said the Merc struggles to overtake?! Two or three more laps and tag would have been a podium.
Good on Bottas as well.
Tomorrow will be interesting...
Could this be the F1 equivalent of upsetting Ben Ainslie in sailing?? Lewis has nothing to lose now.
Wow! That is the most I have been entertained all season. Absolutely sublime drive, a master class from Hamilton. That’s how a 7 time world champ reacts to being at the back of the grid. All hail Sir Lewis 🙌
One hell of a drive from the back by Lewis, he's going to be on fire tomorrow.
Could this be the F1 equivalent of upsetting Ben Ainslie in sailing?? Lewis has nothing to lose now.
He absolutely has nothing to lose now so can go all-in and make things happen. On that performance today I wouldn't be surprised to see him win tomorrow.
That's very funny!
As a big LH fan I am excited that he’s fired up for Sunday. There’s no one can touch him when he’s like that.
I know it’s not exactly an original thought, but should the driver be punished for the teams mistakes?
Yes, the stewards had no option but to disqualify Hamilton. I'm absolutely sure it was not a deliberate act by Merc but the car was not compliant. It's a team sport, the driver is part of the team and gets punished along with the rest of the team for having a non-compliant car.
Still, very impressive fight back from Hamilton. Basically turned a back of the grid start into a 4 place penalty for the race start. Reasonable chance of Hamilton winning the race with Max third if the main race goes like that. That would set the title up for an epic showdown.
Here's the video of Hamilton's overtakes. Clinical.
Yes, the stewards had no option but to disqualify Hamilton
Yes, I know that, under the current rules 🙄
I was more interested in hearing what others thought about maybe changing the rules...you know, in the form of a discussion, pros, cons, etc
I know it’s not exactly an original thought, but should the driver be punished for the teams mistakes?
To be fair, leaving Hamilton at the front of the sprint grid while sending car 44 to the back might have had safety issues and disadvantaged Hamilton more as he ran for his car.
If a driver and team gain an unfair advantage then I don’t think the rule needs changing, DQ / demoted to back of grid.
Once you start bringing in grey areas, so driver/team can cheat and keep his WDC points but lose the constructors points, then where will the line be drawn. There’s a lot of pushing boundaries to their absolute limits already in F1, start introducing soft areas around the regulations and it’ll soon end up a free for all.
I’m a Lewis fan, if Max or Seb had of been caught doing the same I’d want them DQ’d as well.
Absolutely the right decision under the current rules but probably time that team were held responsible for car related issues and the driver for on track discrepancies.
Would need some thought to prevent teams giving their driver an advantage in exchange for taking losing constructors points or a financial penalty.
probably time that team were held responsible for car related issues and the driver for on track discrepancies.
As above, the driver is part of the team. What would you suggest the FIA/stewards do in such a case? The car was illegal, there may be a performance advantage as a result so……?
It seems Mercedes beef is not so much the stewards decision - they made the only one they could under the circumstances - rather that it got referred to the stewards at all.
The wing was tested before quali and passed so was legal at least as the start of the session. It is also the same wing design they have been using all season. It only failed after quali and only on one side as well, not across the whole length and by 0.2mm.
Their belief is that it got damaged in qualifying and there are plenty of past cases of teams being allowed to fix broken components so they can pass certain tests. Red Bull did it last week with their rear wing and various bits get damaged in qauli which may mean certain load and deflection tests fail but only because the part is damaged.
Fair play to Merc taking it on the chin here but as Wolff has said, if anyone else's car is damaged Merc are going to be all over the FIA to prevent them fixing it before scrutineering. And then if a damaged car doesn't pass the tests it has to be DSQ'd from the session.
The wing was tested before quali and passed so was legal at least as the start of the session. It is also the same wing design they have been using all season. It only failed after quali and only on one side as well, not across the whole length and by 0.2mm.
It does seem strange that of all the parts of the car to look at, that Verstappen would try this particular part, on this particular day, at the particular day and time that it wasn't in spec, by 0.2mm, and be able to tell that it was out of spec and so know that the penalty for touching the car would be worth it. I know everything in F1 runs on tiny margins and the drivers and teams will be experts in how their and their competitors cars work, but I wonder if there are any engineers moving from Merc to RB next season....
It does seem strange that of all the parts of the car to look at, that Verstappen would try this particular part, on this particular day, at the particular day and time that it wasn’t in spec, by 0.2mm, and be able to tell that it was out of spec and so know that the penalty for touching the car would be worth it
I do not think the two are related. Max did not know that the wing was out of spec on the DRS test, even chief RB whingebag was surprised they failed that and no way you could tell that only part of the wing was 0.2mm out. You couldn't do it by looking at the stationary car by eye, never mind out on the track.
Also when Max was looking at the wing the DRS was closed so the max deflection failure wouldn't show in any event.
And the wing was legal when it started quali anyway so RB did not have any issues witht he DRS side of things. There is something else about the Merc wing they are interest in and Newey had already been discussing it with the FIA prior to quali commencing. In the interview with Horner after quali they asked what the team had instructed Max to look at and whilst he mumbled something about all drivers like to fondle each other's cars he didn't deny at all that it had been a team order. He didn't say what they were looking for either.
Had LH's wing not failed the DRS test and been subject to the stewards enquiry I do not think they would have said anything at all to Max and it was just pure coincidence the whole thing became such a shitstorm.
Final point, as the gap was only 0.2mm too big at one end and according to Wolff at least, this would have given a slight performance disadvantage.
It does seem strange that of all the parts of the car to look at, that Verstappen would try this particular part
my guess is that Red Bull were looking at how much the wing was flexing. The failure may have been the result of pushing the limits of the regulations. However, we don't really know. The only thing that matters is that the car, as presented at the end of qualifying, wasn't legal.