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Bez,
For the last 5 years CH has been consistently disrespectful to LH, contemptuous even and yesterday he crossed the line, he clearly implied that LH had deliberately pushed Max into the wall and that he should be ashamed of himself. You could see the C4 team interviewing him were having to hold themselves back, they could see what CH was doing and what was likely to ensue and were having to censor themselves. I bet the RB marketing team were tearing their hair out watching the interview and relieved that questions that were on the tip of the interviewers tongues weren't being asked.
Someone once said "the thing about football is that it's not about football" and I think the same thing applies across a lot of sport, especially where large corporate interests are involved. Given what just happened post Euro's, CH's behaviour was moronic and the outcome inevitable.
Of course you can condemn the actions of a person of another race whilst still abhorring racism but as Winston Churchill once said, "there is what you say and what is said"
"Apart from Patel works very much in the race business, RB do not."
Sport not in the race business?
Sport is front and centre in the race business, has been since Jesse Owens, whose sponsorship by Adidas demonstrates the triangulated relationship between sport, race and commerce.
So you couldn't be more wrong. Shut up and dribble (over your keyboard) you plonker.
There ought to be a penalty the FIA can impose for talking utter bollocks! 🙂
There ought to be a penalty the FIA can impose for talking utter bollocks!
On forumistas or team principals 😀
inkster
Free Member“Apart from Patel works very much in the race business, RB do not.”
Sport not in the race business?
Sport is front and centre in the race business, has been since Jesse Owens, whose sponsorship by Adidas demonstrates the triangulated relationship between sport, race and commerce.
So you couldn’t be more wrong. Shut up and dribble (over your keyboard) you plonker.
Yes, the principle of a F1 team is just the same as our cretin of a Home Secretary who seems to take great delight in chucking people out of the country. You've entirely convinced me, especially the part where you resort to insults, that sealed it tbf
Is that right, Verstappen stopped following Hamilton on Instagram? Really? is he still a child. How pathetic.
I'm not surprised RB are complaining, neither Max or Perez scored any points, any lead they'd built up after wining the last 4 races has pretty much disappeared in a puff of tyre smoke for the sake of a dodgy overtake on the opening lap...I'd be spitting feathers as well. M'leh, It'll all blow over.
*looks at the calendar to see what thriller will keep this entertainment going*
Hungary ffs, can we not just skip straight to Spa?
They were very inflammatory and … explicitly aimed at a Black driver
OK, but… I’m still curious as to what they are. You said there were at least three.
For the last 5 years CH has been consistently disrespectful to LH, contemptuous even
Has he?
He’s been a little over-reaching in his defences of his drivers and in particular Max, eg implying that Ocon deserved more of an assault than just a shove when he and Verstappen collided in Brazil, but in all the interviews I’ve seen he’s fairly consistently expressed the view that Lewis and Max are the top two drivers and if I’ve heard anything contemptuous from him before this week then I’ve forgotten it.
Hungary could be pretty good, especially if the weather plays it's part. Lewis has won there 8 times before already and there's arguably more chance for the drivers to make the difference given the layout. If they line up on the front together, could be fire works!
I just wanted to add, how much of a team player is Bottas? Consistent podiums and in his own race for 3rd overall but still has done a lot for Hamilton recently, not just yielding on track but punching a hole in the air for him during qualifying at previous races.
Sorry for the (mild) insult mashr, but if you going out there saying sport has got nothing to do with politics then you're asking for a bit of a ribbing really.
I understand that CH and PP may not share the same motivations but the consequences of their actions are the same. Another similarity is that they have both had to roll back on their earlier comments.
If you find yourself saying 'I didn't mean to say it' (That's what a roll back is) then you didn't have to say it in the first place.
Yes fooman, Bottas a proper wing man at the mo. He always does this doesn't he? Just when you think he's about to be shown the door he comes up good. Any talk of him being replaced after the break is silly surely?
Any talk of him being replaced after the break is silly surely?
Depends if Mercedes want a wing-man or a Hamilton understudy in Russell?
And of course if Bottas is happy being a wing-man.
Yesterday showed that Bottas isn't the one to lead a championship challenge. In those circumstances and with Lewis's 10 second penalty he should have won that race yesterday.
OK, but… I’m still curious as to what they are. You said there were at least three
He made the same statements at least three times, both on the radio to race control at the time and in subsequent interviews - that Lewis' driving was unacceptable, that he was dangerous, That Lewis should be ashamed of himself, that a driver of Lewis' calibre shouldn't drive like an amateur etc and with the strong inference Lewis had deliberately put Max in hospital. It was totally over the top and then Max and Helmut carried on in the same vein.
This is the same team principal who said, when Max took maybe Lewis, maybe someone else out (I cannot quite recall) in not dissimilar circumstances, that if drivers couldn't take the odd collision as part of hard racing then they should quit.
He was relentless in his criticism of Lewis and yes, I do think that was inflammatory and played a part in giving people the justification for the abuse they gave Lewis.
EDIT - it is better to just watch Horner's Sky interview. The hate in his voice and the way he puts his words across is the definition of inflammatory in my book. Other view points are available of course
I just wanted to add, how much of a team player is Bottas?
It's an interesting problem. Russell, like Verstappen, has something of a reputation of a "stuff it in, see what happens" attitude when it comes to wheel to wheel overtaking. I've heard an accusation of "reckless" thrown at him. I wonder if Mercedes need that right now? Its OK to smash your car to bits when you've nothing to loose, another thing all together when it's the championship on the line, and I think everyone understands that your biggest rival is your team mate...2022 could be an interesting one from Hamilton's perspective if Russel joins
I bet the RB marketing team were tearing their hair out watching the interview
I think you'll find that they were the ones conducting the interview. At least DC said at least once that "LH was not a dirty driver". I too am a little tired of the partisan commentary.
Thought Bottas played a very straight bat yesterday.
Is that right, Verstappen stopped following Hamilton on Instagram? Really? is he still a child. How pathetic.
Yep, I heard that too.
He might as well just hand the championship over to Hamilton right now.
EDIT – it is better to just watch Horner’s Sky interview. The hate in his voice and the way he puts his words across is the definition of inflammatory in my book.
Thanks for the link. Seems very similar to the C4 interviews, he was repeating many of the same lines.
I agree he goes a bit far, and crucially he certainly fails to acknowledge that on entry Hamilton was fully alongside, not just “chucking a wheel”. But I still think it’s even more unreasonable to suggest that it was courting racism. YMMV.
Yep, I heard that too.
I suspect (I admit that I'm guessing) the hand of his dad, Jos here. He's a proper nasty bit of work, and TBH Max has done well to keep out of the family side-business of beating people up. I can imagine it's the sort of thing he'd say to the press; because he's a ****
One person that certainly comes out of this mess smelling of roses is Michael Masi. He’s been so bang-on straight up the middle that you almost wince from the painful truth whenever you put his comments up against anyone else’s 🙂
"Seems very similar to the C4 interviews, he was repeating many of the same lines."
That kind of illustrates the point. He not only made some over the top remarks, he doubled down on them. I know we all see things slightly differently but I thought Coultard and Blue Peter guy were seeing things the same way as me, a bit surprised at how far CH was going and nervous of the consequences for Horner, Lewis, Max, Red Bull and F1 in general.
I felt like they were weighing up wether to confront him more and wether their own jobs would be on the line if they said what they were really thinking. I think they got it about right, they gave CH a chance to temper his words then backed off and thought let Horner dig an even bigger hole for himself. Webbers' position (ex red bull) kind of bought the complex relationship between sport, commerce and journalism to the fore as well, he looked a bit embarrassed. The sky guy on the other hand just looked absolutely terrified when conducting his interview.
I'm sure Lewis knew that every word coming out of Horners mouth would result in exponential amounts of on-line abuse (and print, let's not forget the Daily Mail). And that's what happened. The thing is, just like when he was a kid, Hamilton will take all the negativity and turn it into a positive out on the track.
“So I went to make sure that our view was represented because I don’t think it’s right that team principals should be able to go and lobby the stewards. They should be locked away so that they’re not influenced"
I'm loving the double standards...
Not really - doesn't think it should be allowed but as it is, he'd be daft to not present his counter claim if the other guy's going to.
The sky guy on the other hand just looked absolutely terrified when conducting his interview.
Yeah, was a bit surprised Ted Kravitz was that awkward and not a bit more forthright.
and from the Racefans link:
Wolff rejected Horner’s complaint, saying he got in touch with Masi after hearing about Horner’s message to the race director, which was played on the television broadcast.
So who actually started the lobbying first...I can't keep track 🙂
The footage from the helicopter in slo motion shows Max closing the door on Lewis so Max's aggressive cornering was aimed at sending Lewis off track or braking hard enough to flat spot his tyres, Max knew he was there, where else would he be, Lewis just stayed the course so its a racing incident in my book 50/50 aggressive driving. I think Max would rather right off his car than give way to Lewis. Also, you just know Senna's quote to Jackie stewart was in Lewis's head, if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver. Ballsy move to go inside at copse and anyone else but Max would have gone a bit wider and shown more respect to Lewis or pussied out which ever way you view it.
Nonsense - Max left more than a car and a half width. Hamilton knew he had to pass on the first lap. Far too high an entry speed and understeered into max
What you forget is max had a far higher downforce so could corner at higher speeds. hamilton went in too hot
What you forget is it's a 190mph corner, it's the first lap of the race so tyres are not up to temperature, Max pushed Lewis onto the dirty part of the track, on the wrong line. Grip levels are unknown to the driver. Lewis still made it round the corner. He did not go in too hot. Max had the option to run wide (as Leclerc did) . Lewis didn't as Max was in the way.
I've driven an F3 car round Copse. Even at 140mph, once you turn in you don't get much chance to change your line. You can run wide, you can't tighten.
Max has done what Lewis did on multiple occasions - stuffed it up the inside. Every time the driver on the outside has given way to avoid the collision. Lewis had to get past Max there or Max would drive off into the distance. If Max had let him go, he'd probably have got back in front anyway. The smart choice from Max would have been to give way.
Max is a brilliant driver, but you win championships by being smart and choosing your battles, not fighting every corner. If Max learns that he'll win multiple championships, if he doesn't, he won't.
Horner is still a dick though.
Pretty much sums it up perfectly ^
Especially the final sentence 😂
I really hope the wheels fall off Verstappen’s title race after this weekend. He’s a reet spoilt little tit. I can’t believe the way he and Horner have conducted themselves over the whole incident. **** embarrassing.
Hamilton was coming at him like a cruise missile the whole first half of the lap and after being met with a high level of aggression on two occasions, the third time that aggression was matched and Verstappen came off worse. Hamilton had been pushed to the absolute limit by him into the right hand side of the straight close to the barrier, the complete opposite side of the track you want to be on for a right hand corner. He was always going to understeer wide but the child just couldn’t yield and he paid the price. Problem is I just don’t think he’ll learn and will continue being an aggressive little prick. Can’t wait for the next race. If only to see Horner make an absolute mug of himself again if he doesn’t get his way. Also, bravo to the Red Bull gives you whinge comments up thread 😂
I really hope the wheels fall off Verstappen’s title race after this weekend. He’s a reet spoilt little tit.
I understand that feeling, but I wish he would just be a little bit more mature. He is a very talented driver and it's great to see him and Hamilton going at it in competitive cars. Whichever one of them wins the title will deserve it, but I hope it stays clean and respectful. Having the title go down to the final race would be the best thing the sport could hope for.
Keep in mind, drivers and team managers are only human and only very competitive personalities can function at that level of sport. You'll always get a bit of boiling over of emotions when two competitive personalities go head to head, so things like this are to be expected. Hopefully both teams will cool off a bit and it'll go back to just being good, hard racing.
I used to really dislike Max when he first arrived on the scene. He was clearly very fast, but seemed to lack maturity and judgement, which was unsurprising given his young age and influence of his father. Then he seemed to do a bit of introspection and suddenly started driving much more maturely. I still don't like him as a person, but he would be a very deserving champion. I hope he does the same again and responds in a positive way.
To be fair to Max, Hamilton has behaved a bit immaturely at times over the years and races very aggressively when he needs to. I don't think he's dirty in the way Schumacher was, but Rosberg clearly got under his skin and Hamilton was a bit more robust in defending than you would normally expect from a teammate. I do think that this was just a racing incident, but Hamilton was driving very, very aggressively on that first lap.
I'm with dannybgoode, Horner repeatedly making such wildly insulting comments was only ever going to go one way. It's not to say Hamilton should be immune from criticism but people should think before vilifying someone like that (especially on such spurious grounds).
He did not go in too hot.
That he was so far from the apex that he sent it a postcard says otherwise 😉
Is Max a brilliant driver though? Or is he just hyper-aggressive? I'm not so sure.
I certainly wasn't aware of him and his dad's shenanigans until a page or so back! That was very interesting reading. I remember Jos being a fairly mediocre driver BITD, who's obviously left F1 with a pocketful of cash and a penchant for booze, violence and shady dealings.
He now seems to be the very embodiment of the football dad standing on the halfway line swearing at the referee of his 10 year old son's soccer match.
Is Max a brilliant driver though?
Yes, he's astonishingly fast. The only teammate who has held his own was Ricciardo.
I remember Jos being a fairly mediocre driver BITD
I think he was reasonably talented but had the worst possible teammate, plus he's an utter **** so hard to have any sympathy for him.
Is Max a brilliant driver though? Or is he just hyper-aggressive? I’m not so sure.
Oh, he’s both: I don’t think there’s any doubt about either of those qualities. Look at how he’s performed against his teammates, how he’s performed in wet races, how he’s found lines that virtually no-one else would use, how he’s always exploited the first lap to gain places, and so on. In terms of actual driving I’d say he’s as good as probably anyone you care to mention. Whether the aggression is a help or a hindrance in various situations is perhaps a different matter, and incidents like this might suggest that his judgement needs work, but you don’t win championships by opening the door for people. I don’t especially like the guy either (though to be fair to him he’s become a vastly more reasonable character in his time in F1), but in terms of talent behind the wheel, he’s right up there.
Is Max a brilliant driver though?
yes, beyond doubt.
No question, Max is a superb driver and if he wins the WDC he'll be a thoroughly deserving winner. It's also well worth pointing out that Max isn't Jos. BTW Max's mother raced karts herself as a kid alongside Jenson Button and Christian Horner, Dario Franchitti etc - she's apparently pretty handy herself and it's fair to say that Max's talent doesn't just come from his father's side.
I don't have a particularly high personal opinion of Jos, but then the sport has featured a number of gold plated dickheads over the years and Jos Verstappen has plenty of company in this category.
the worst possible teammate, plus he’s an utter ****
<shudder>
Schumacher, Verstappen Sr and Flav… I mean, that’s quite the gang, no? 😬
but Hamilton was driving very, very aggressively on that first lap.
He was - and undoubtedly because he knew he had to move quickly with MV having a quicker car - either by making the overtake or by forcing an error. I think it is going to be very interesting for the remainder of the season now as Hamilton knows he hasn't got the fastest car so to stand a chance of winning the title, he has to change tactics and I think that first lap proved he knows what he has to do to stand a chance - and after all this might be his last chance at surpassing Schumacher.
Could draw a comparison to Rossi vs Stoner 2008 Laguna Seca. Rossi knew he didn't have the pace but had to just keep mugging Stoner until he forced an error. unfortunately Silverstones battle lasted less than a lap
It's interesting how earlier in the season when Hamilton was ahead in the points, it was Verstappen lobbing it up the inside and Hamilton having to choose to have the crash or not - he bailed out each time as he knew it "was a marathon, not a sprint" and he had more to lose than Verstappen at that point.
Now the roles have been reversed, and it's Hamilton who has nothing to lose (behind in the points, so second to Verstappen really is the first loser), so is putting the moves on - Verstappen needs to learn when a corner isn't worth fighting over (hopefully he won't this season, as I'd quite like Hamilton to win it:-)
Verstappen needs to learn when a corner isn’t worth fighting over
Lewis explained this to Max in the drivers room after his collision with am unlapping Ocon in Brazil, losing him the win. Max was ranting away about how it was all Ocons fault, Lewis asked why he even got involved, let him go, you (max) had so much more to lose.
Seems it fell on deaf ears.