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Christ, this is getting fun. Move over Rich Energy, there’s a new jerk circus in town! 😂
Ten days ago, Red Bull had a decent claim that they'd been a bit hard done by - steward's decision was that Hamilton was mostly to blame but he came out of it with a big points gain. This week they look like clowns for turning up with fabricated evidence and are having to fire people for racism. I'm guessing their P.R. consultants tell Marko, Horner, Verstappen, and everyone else to just drop it. The F1 project was intended to boost fizzy drink sales around the world. Nothing like a bit of racism on social media to wipe out that fun, exciting image they've spent a couple of decades cultivating.
https://twitter.com/Lewis__Duncan/status/1421095258025299974
Wow RedBull is really getting backed into a corner here and it’s not going to go well:
1) Employees fired after racist map in meeting - well they weren’t fired but just “let go” which is super lame and a lot of people will latch onto that. Reading the reports say that the person presenting it was warned not to use it either!!
2) Employees write to company protesting about RB not joining in with anti-racist stance properly.
3) F1 Race boss (Karen Horner) seems to make a simple crash personal against a black driver, going WAY beyond what he should have done and almost provoking online racist abuse against LH. I can’t think of another example of such bad vitriol from a F1 team member against another person in the F1 paddock in the modern F1 era.
They are really really going to have to work hard to dig themselves out of this one. Surely the “comments” they made in the appeal will come out soon.
Wonder what all this will do to their sales??
The truth is that the racist “sackings” and the company letter would probably have attracted little attention overall if it hadn’t been for CH’s anti LH crusade but people will put all these bits of evidence together and RB may soon be known as the “racist team” if they don’t do some serious damage control. I’m not saying they are racist but when a label like that sticks to you it’s very hard to peel off.
Are redbull suggesting Albon is just as good a driver as Lewis with that pointless crimewatch re-enactment.
I think Lewis should interrupt when Horner is being interviewed live and say 'is it because I is black' 😀
Lewis just has to keep on doing what he's doing. He's said very little about the incident but what he has said has been precise and very composed. His very first comments were "Max is too aggresive", thus controlling the narrative in a way in which put the spotloght more on Red Bull than himself.
He followed up in a press conference saying that the abuse was inevitable and if it highlights the problems withinn Formula 1 then thats a good thing, his shoulders are broad enough to deal with the pressure.
I've been more impressed than ever by him, his overall countenance has been -'this is what I've been talking about all along.' Silverstone was a win for him both on and off the track.
I think Red Bull will be doing some more whinging about those out lap games... Ramping up the mental pressure and frustration on Verstappen.
Don't think max would have ever beaten lewis's first lap time.
RB have wound themselves up so tightly playing games, they have left themselves so easy to play by Hamilton and Mercedes.
Reminds me of the infamous Kevin Keegan incident.
Don’t think max would have ever beaten lewis’s first lap time.
I don't think so either but I do wonder what extra pressure is now on Max to get a result and how stupid things will get tomorrow...
So two Mercs on the front row on medium tyres, with two Red Bulls behind them on softs, great strategy situation for Merc. Max is not going to want to run third on the road behind Bottas while Hamilton cruises off into the distance. Even finishing L1 second with Bottas behind him won't work strategy wise. My money's on Max having a first lap meltdown, he's going to be desperate to get revenge for Silverstone and show that he's the boss.
Certainly they're going to have to get past the Mercs pretty fast, otherwise behind those Mercs, Max's is just going to scrub those tyres into nothing. With the track temp and probably a 2 stop race...can't see how RB are going to win this, TBH.
What odds on Lewis and Max coming together on lap one...?
It's certainly set up nicely for some shenanigans, therefore I reckon it will be a complete damp squib and Max will roll in 3rd but with an extra point for fastest lap.
What odds on Lewis and Max coming together on lap one…?
1/4
Bottas and Verstappen coming together 1/2
Basically, there's going to be a 50-50 chance of Max pulling off any disputed passing move for the rest of the season because other drivers know that he has more to lose than they do, but he has a psychological need to impose his superiority so it's just going to be a coin toss. He probably has about a 50% chance of beating Bottas off the line, with a 50% chance of not hitting Hamilton after that.
MV to take Bottas and himself out on first lap!
This is going to be great to watch unfold during lap 1 tomorrow, I can’t wait! Just watched a video of Max losing his cool in a press conference when asked about 1st lap engagement between him and Lewis, swearing and shouting on. Lewis is in his head now and he seems to be getting more and more wound up. If he loses his cool in the race (which I predict is very likely) he’s not going to get far.
Just saw that too, Max is showing his immaturity (again) in the way he's handling all of this. Horner's attitude isn't helping either, pandering to Max's attitude is just making it all worse.
Anyone else notice the Orange Army booing Lewis during the post-qualy interview with Herbert? It may well just be them painting him as the villain but it has serious racist overtones after the events of the last few days. Be interesting to see how the anti-racism pause goes tomorrow. I only mention it as a friend messaged me about it after seeing it in social media, he's not an F1 fan but was very uncomfortable about it.
No DC or MW on the C4 highlights. Coincidence?
it has serious racist overtones after the events of the last few days
Formula 1 fans have booed drivers they don't like before, iirc Vettel got much more when he was a winning driver. Racism may be the motivation for some, but I suspect its just the tribal nature of supporting your guy against the other. I don't think it is helpful to see everything as racism just because Lewis is black, it starts to belittle the real acts of racism.
There was real racism in the vitriol against him online that RB had stoked, but that was probably more racist trolls using the incident as an excuse to abuse someone in the public eye.
MSP.
You're so naive.
Did you not notice how big a cheer the crowd gave for Bottas? If it was tribal I wouldn't have expected the RB fans to be cheering the Mercedes No.2 so enthusiastically. It was almost as if they were trying to make a point.
The tribalism we were witnessing was a different sort of tribalism to the one you are thinking of.
See that's the trouble with racism. The Dutch fans have plenty of reasons to boo Hamilton - Silverstone, today's antics, denying Max his birthright to win 10 WDCs. Bottas is only a side show in all of that. I have no doubt that race plays its part in the booing, but after recent events I'd have expected some of that reaction regardless of Hamiltons heritage.
Hopefully he'll give them some more reasons to boo tomorrow.
MSP.
You’re so naive.
🙄
Naive - showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.
I don’t think it’s MSP with a sensible and balanced post who’s the naive one.
To the man with a hammer, everything is a nail.
Indeed.
Well, in my naivety maybe I saw things rather like reluctantjumper's friend, who saw the footage as a non F1 fan and found it disturbing.
Perhaps you guys can enlighten me as to why Lewis Hamilton has received a fairly similar reaction at every European Circuit over the last fourteen years? Perhaps you could provide a dossier of all the former driving indiscretions that legitimise the countless times he has been greeted with a cacophony of boos as he faces the crowd?
Sorry to hammer the point but if it looks like a nail......
A bit more info on the Silverstone crash
So Verstappen was going 1.5km/hr faster than he did in qualifying...with a full tank of fuel. Maybe they should get Albon to see if he could make the corner?
Max’s pre qualy interview was horrendous. Has no one pointed out to him that there are lots of crashes in F1, and he isn’t a special case. Just because he has crashed does not prevent the presentations and celebrations.
As others have said, his dad and Karen seem to be fuelling his belief that the world revolves around him.
Someone needs to get his feet back on the ground pronto.
Qualy has to have been very sweet for Mercedes.
I managed to catch the tail end of the qualifying and as they were going round I did think to myself that they might be pushed for time if they make a gap to the car in front. I think Lewis & Mercedes played it almost spot on to wind up Red Bull by making sure he had a gap for his run while making it really tight for the two Red Bull cars to get over the line in time. Dont watch many GPs (although I am watching the Spa 24h which has been really good so far) but its my youngests birthday tomorrow so might just stick it on to record for the first few laps alone.
So much hype - I’m predicting a boring race. Hamilton first, Verstappen second (undercuts Bottas)
Well, in my naivety maybe I saw things rather like reluctantjumper’s friend, who saw the footage as a non F1 fan and found it disturbing.
Perhaps you guys can enlighten me as to why Lewis Hamilton has received a fairly similar reaction at every European Circuit over the last fourteen years?
If you remember back to the Hamilton vs Alonso implosion at McLaren, the Alonso fans were turning up to races in golliwog costumes, etc. I had a lot of admiration for Alonso's driving in his championship years and had some sympathy for his view that McLaren should have given him priority over a rookie, but I don't recall he ever spoke out to criticize the fans' behaviour. I don't believe Alonso is racist at all, but I think he should have publicly condemned the fans' behaviour and made it clear that it was totally unacceptable. Same goes for Red Bull and Verstappen now. It's pretty naive to think that there isn't a fair bit of racism mixed up in all this.
Sorry guys, hammer time again.
I know you mean well MSP but a couple of times you mention 'real racism'....as opposed to what exactly?
And when you say:
"I don’t think it is helpful to see everything as racism just because Lewis is black, it starts to belittle the real acts of racism.
Are you suggesting that those who saw racism in the quite hateful booing are somehow making racism worse by commenting on it?...or perhaps you should clarify what you mean as 'everything'
And I can get where 'thepurist' is coming from, though I'm not sure saying 'See that’s the trouble with racism' is the best way to start a sentence....Do you mean that the trouble with racism is that fans can't get to boo a person of colour because people might see them as racist?
Say you're at an event and you and others are booing a sportsperson because of some indiscretion, theres no racial intent but then some of the booing gets a bit more spiteful and perhaps goes on for a bit longer than usual. Do you carry on booing because your booing is not based not on the same prejudice as other boo-ers?
The thing is, for 'naieve' people like me, I can't tell who's who amongst the cacophony. Perhaps the Red Bull fans who like to boo need an "I'm not racist but.." t-shirt or something to clear up the confusion.
Failing that the only solution I can see is if the anti boo-ers start booing the boo-ers for booing.
It’s pretty naive to think that there isn’t a fair bit of racism mixed up in all this.
It is, but nobody has suggested that there isn’t any racism in all of this.
All MSP suggested was that some of the anti-Hamilton sentiment on display at the circuit today is probably a result of partisan views of his actions at Silverstone and/or his actions in qualifying today, rather than being motivated by racism. A perfectly reasonable point to make.
To start a reply to that point with a condescending “You’re so naive” or some other clumsy attempt to be patronising - that’s not the way for that poster to get themselves taken seriously.
EDIT - “I know you mean well MSP”.
Perhaps he can’t help it?
All MSP suggested was that some of the anti-Hamilton sentiment on display at the circuit today is probably a result of partisan views of his actions at Silverstone and/or his actions in qualifying today, rather than being motivated by racism. A perfectly reasonable point to make.
I think it's a bit more complex than that. Going back to the Alonso fans in 2007-2008, I think part of it was that they were really angry with Hamilton and McLaren (which I can understand to some degree) and the golliwog costumes, etc. was seen as a humourous way to troll him. I suspect a lot of those Alonso fans weren't racist in the sense of wanting to sign up as Klansmen and lynch people, they just thought they were having a bit of a harmless laugh. Problem is, it normalizes the behaviour and it can easily snowball out of control, as the Red Bull P.R. department have discovered over the last couple of weeks. The problem is that "ironic" racist jokes are actually still racist, even if people think they're just having a bit of harmless fun, hence Red Bull sacking staff for what was probably a disastrously misguided attempt at humour.
The crowds problem was with Lewis not Mercedes so Valteri wouldn't receive any boo's, his warm reception was done just to highlight the cold one for Lewis, basically hammering home their dislike for him. You can't definitely say if it's racist or not.
We'll see later on during the taking of the knee, if they're still doing that.
Although being Hungary it probably will have a touch of racism in there, it'll be interesting to hear the crowds response, as well as the other drivers stance, it would really grab the attention and be nice if they all took a knee after the increase in Lewis's online abuse, can't see it happening though.
MV should take the knee just emphasise the point to his fans. Fine booing cos you want to support your man, not fine booing because of the colour of someone's skins.
Personally I think they all should in light of recent events.
I think they should of all started to take the knee once most have and for support of there colleague Lewis Hamilton, I am not surprised by the ones that have not taken the knee.
Honda found a crack in Max's engine, changing it for the race. If they can't repair it, Max is going to have engine related penalties later in the season.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-gets-new-honda-f1-engine-for-hungary-race/6640284/
Oh, there's a shame.
it's odd there's no penalty for an engine swap... what's to stop teams using a qualifying engine (the one of 3 thats producing most oomphf) then swapping it out in the race for a less powerful unit and saving it for the next quali ?
rain on the forecast 😀
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Klunk
Free Memberit’s odd there’s no penalty for an engine swap… what’s to stop teams using a qualifying engine (the one of 3 thats producing most oomphf) then swapping it out in the race for a less powerful unit and saving it for the next quali ?
They all have to be built to the same spec (minus the parts that are allowed to be upgraded)
They all have to be built to the same spec
they'll still produce different power on the dyno, and a new engine compared to a multi raced used engine is not the same.
what’s to stop teams using a qualifying engine (the one of 3 thats producing most oomphf) then swapping it out in the race for a less powerful unit and saving it for the next quali ?
They have to use the same spec engine for qualifying and the race. They used to be able to adjust engine modes for qualifying or for critical times in a race but that's not allowed now.
They are allowed three identical engines for the year without penalty. Max is now on his third, so he doesn't get a penalty for this change. He can change back to used engines, but if he takes another new one, he'll face penalties.
I think the crack was near a mounting point, obviously crash damage. Whether it can be repaired is not certain at this point. I don't know the details of the rules, but to me it would seem fair to allow them to do the minimum amount needed to repair the engine. All the mechanical components must be undamaged, it's just a cracked engine block so repairing or replacing that and refitting all the other bits to it would seem fair seeing as it was crash damage. I'm not sure if the cylinder liners are removable, I suspect not, and not sure how fitting used pistons and rings into a new cylinder block would work.
they’ll still produce different power on the dyno, and a new engine compared to a multi raced used engine is not the same.
Yup, but of the three one can’t be an 80s style qualifier hand grenade. Same spec doesn’t mean absolutely identical power output as the tolerances involved make that impossible
They have to use the same spec engine for qualifying and the race. They used to be able to adjust engine modes for qualifying or for critical times in a race but that’s not allowed now.
They are allowed three identical engines for the year without penalty. Max is now on his third, so he doesn’t get a penalty for this change. He can change back to used engines, but if he takes another new one, he’ll face penalties.
thanks for the patronizing lesson, but I knew the rules. Even same spec engines produce different power numbers (even if it is small) and worn engines produce less power than new engines so it just seems odd that theres no penalty for an engine swap between quali and the race.
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thols2
Free MemberHamilton trolling Verstappen.
Is that different to the sort of thing he’d say if the crash hadn’t happened? Seems fairly standard
"The problem is that “ironic” racist jokes are actually still racist,"
This x 1000
I saw a Lenny Henry documentary last year where he pointed out that the only black comedy facess on TV during the 2000's were in blackface. Lee Francis, League of Gentelman, Little Britain and Ali G.
I was uncomfortable with those shows at the time but didn't comment because I didn't want to be seen as missing the irony. I'm in my 50's, I could see the irony because I had grown up during the 70's and 80's but those shows were aimed at a youth audience who had no context in which to see it as ironic.
it just seems odd that theres no penalty for an engine swap between quali and the race.
They're allowed three engines for the season. The engines must be of the same spec, disregarding manufacturing tolerances and wear and tear. Any engine will suffer wear as soon as it is run so they often introduce new engines at power circuits and refit older engines for non-power circuits. That's perfectly legal. Qualifying engines with a different spec for higher performance are not allowed.
3 engines you don't say
rain at the start, looks very grey... soft tyres might not be such a disadvantage if it's slight moist
not sure how fitting used pistons and rings into a new cylinder block would work.
I thought pistons and cylinders sort of bedded in to each other during the running in stages? Maybe the tolerances are so tight on F1 engines that it's not really an issue?
tis raining
I thought pistons and cylinders sort of bedded in to each other during the running in stages?
Yes, so the old rings would have to be rebedded into new cylinder bores. No idea how that would work out. I suspect not well, but allowing them to fit new rings would give a boost in performance and would not be allowed.
tis raining
Does that mean they still have to start on the tyres they used in Q2?
Or do they get free choice to go for Intermediate or Wet tyres?
Surely it'd be insane to qualify in dry conditions on (say) Medium and then be forced to start a race in the pissing rain on them...?
Genuine question, sorry, I don't know the rules on that one...
So at what point does an old engine become a new engine? Some parts will no doubt get replaced every race. Then you can upgrade other parts for reliability reasons which you can presumably put on all 3 of your seasons engines. Given that way teams push the limit of the rules you must be able to get pretty close to a new engine without exceeding your allocated 3.
thats quite wet now
So at what point does an old engine become a new engine? Some parts will no doubt get replaced every race.
The engines are sealed. They cannot replace parts generally. Things like oil filters, spark plugs, etc. will be exceptions, but the major parts cannot be replaced.
Surely it’d be insane to qualify in dry conditions on (say) Medium and then be forced to start a race in the pissing rain on them…?
If it's officially a wet race, they can change tyres. If it's just a bit damp, it's not a wet race. It's up to the race officials to decide. I assume they ask the drivers and teams for input on the decision.
any bets on someone going off on the formation lap ?
mazespin i#m looking at you 😉
intermediates across the board
blimey!
He's tried to kill both our drivers there!!!
great team work from bottas
whoopsie
"Our" drivers?
I'm channelling my inner Christian Horner.
great start from lewis
I’m channelling my inner Christian Horner.
You will be a long time in the shower later, but you know deep down no matter how hard you scrub, you will never be clean again.
Great chance for Max to show his stuff, assuming his car is up to it.
Post race Horner interviews should be interesting today.
Gutted for Lando.
the Ocon in car is brilliant
From one of the onboard cameras, Hamilton looked to have slid a little in the first corner as well, he might have lost position if not for the chaos behind.
just looked like a twitch as he put the power down
gaffer tape a go go 😀
Perez says Bottas has ruined another engine too. Horner's going to be such value later.
Suns out 😀 Will max gamble on slicks ?
thats a lot of tape ?
