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Toto should just turn up and play a video of Horner’s interview at Portimao last year and then walk out.
That would be ace wouldn't it. Toto strolling in - shorts, t-shirt and flip flops (just to reinforce the fact HDGAF) - playing that clip and mooching back out again. And then perhaps Lewis could speak and say...
'I have nothing more to say on the matter... except Max is a pussy...'
Can red bull be penalised for wasting everyone's time and misusing the official procedures when they turn up without any new evidence?
Part of me wonders if they are just doing this to try and unsettle Mercedes, but it appears to be backfiring as they are the ones looking most unsettled by the abject failure of their mind games.
Horner is probably still sore because as team principal he was almost culpable for the corporate manslaughter of Verstappen after approving the underhand breaking of tyre pressure limits that caused that blowout a few races ago. He knows that this “desperate” (to quote a certain F1 team boss) measure cost Verstappen 25 points and is now trying anything to get them back. The only reason he’s not letting go of the Silverstone incident is to keep it in the news and distract everyone from him nearly seriously injuring his own driver with excessively deflated tyres.
What’s good for the goose……. 😀
Verstappen isn’t getting dragged into the mud-slinging; good on him.
Makes me wonder how much of his “disrespectful” comment was actually his dad, who was evidently with him at the time. Was amused to see his response to Steve Jones’ question about where his patience came from: “my mum I think… definitely not my dad!”
He seems to have come on leaps and bounds in the last year or two.
"Karen Horner - Can we all appreciate this new nickname a bit more please? 😂😂"
Whinger Spice?
I'll get me coat...
Whinger Spice?
I’ll get me coat…
With gags like that you’re welcome to stay 😂
I though Histrionics Corner was excellent.
How many can you get
https://www.sporcle.com/games/usertimely76/formula-1-gp-drivers-2001-202163 for me
Good quiz, but I'm afraid I gave up after realising I can't spell Raikenen.
Or Hakkinen.
And I'm not sure about Vlleneurve, Fisichella, Barrachello, Kobayashi, Kovaleinen, Karthayan...
I'll have timed out way before I'd finishe dif I had to check all the spellings
andrewh
Good quiz, but I’m afraid I gave up after realising I can’t spell Raikenen.
Or Hakkinen.
And I’m not sure about Vlleneurve, Fisichella, Barrachello, Kobayashi, Kovaleinen, Karthayan…
I’ll have timed out way before I’d finishe dif I had to check all the spellings
Haha yeah it's a bit strict on that! I did have to google the spelling on a few.
Can't wait for the outcome on Thursday,
Redbull gives you whinge.
Redbull gives you whinge
We have got to keep posting that on their ****ter feed... 😝
Still can’t imagine what they have that could possibly make a difference, suppose we’ll know soon enough.
Interesting that Honda are keeping the Silverstone engine in for FP1 at least
Interesting that Honda are keeping the Silverstone engine in for FP1 at least
I’m guessing that if the PU is viable then the Load of Bull claim of $1.8m costs is undermined somewhat. Though no doubt they’ll have a hefty bill to replace all the piss and vinegar they’ve expended on this. (That said, I guess they have a handy in-house supply of the former.)
I’m guessing that if the PU is viable then the Load of Bull claim of $1.8m costs is undermined somewhat.
Maybe, but they'd swap out the ICE at some point anyway. This is more about protecting themselves from grid penalties as they'll be on their third/last engine if it has to be swapped
greeny30
Redbull gives you whinge.
😂
Maybe, but they’d swap out the ICE at some point anyway. This is more about protecting themselves from grid penalties as they’ll be on their third/last engine if it has to be swapped
Oh, for sure. I think the whole point of them telling everyone that figure was just to try and shore up their complaining, because they don’t have a legitimate complaint so they have to rely on emotive stuff.
But despite what Horner and Marko might like to think when their wünderkind is on the receiving end for once, just as the regulations don’t say “except on fast corners like Copse”, they also don’t say “unless the other car is really badly damaged” 🙂
claim of $1.8m costs is undermined somewhat.
I'm genuinely curious about how they arrived at that figure. One way to do it would be to add up the marginal cost of manufacturing every damaged component, without any R&D costs needed. However, many of those components will have a specified life after which they would be set aside for use as spares, but not used unless they ran out of parts at the end of the season. The broken parts that were near their normal life should be costed at a fraction of new parts - an engine that's done three race weekends isn't worth as much as a brand new one, for example. However, as far as I know, all parts except the power-units can be swapped freely between the two cars, so Red Bull can probably adjust the parts allocation between the two cars to minimize the new parts that they need to manufacture (basically, Perez will get older parts for the final races so Max can stay on fresher parts.) On top of that, some of the aero parts would have been specific to that circuit, so they would not have been used again anyway. Just saying that it would cost $1.8 million to replace everything is a bit simplistic.
I’m genuinely curious about how they arrived at that figure
I’d imagine the bulk of it comes from what they’ve spent on tissues since the last race.
I know horner is a w####r, but you would assume he doesn't have time for that currently
I'd imagine getting to the $1.8m number was an exercise in largely making it up as is usual in these sorts of circumstances. 'The numbers don't lie' = bolleux...
$1.8m is the price when sold on the streets when everyone in the chain has taken their cut, and it has been diluted 16 times with baking powder, at least 10 times what you would pay for it from your friendly colombian importer.
Given that it’s Red Bull I’d imagine it’s a case of making it for tuppence ha’penny and then trying to persuade everyone it’s worth £1.50 😉
Didn’t RB reckon they had telemetry or video or something that showed that given the speed and position Hamilton entered the corner he could not have successfully made the corner if Max hadn’t provided an additional braking medium? They were certainly suggesting that at no other point during the weekend did Hamilton enter that corner that fast (possibly from that position - but they why would he?).
Whether it’s true…
Is copse not flat out (on the correct line) in an F1 car? So won't be able to go much faster than flat out...
yetidave
Free MemberIs copse not flat out (on the correct line) in an F1 car?
The bracketed part would be key to the (flimsy) arguement
if Max hadn’t provided an additional braking medium?
That gentle tap on his right rear wheel! 🙂
Didn’t RB reckon they had telemetry or video or something that showed that given the speed and position Hamilton entered the corner he could not have successfully made the corner if Max hadn’t provided an additional braking medium?
That’s a valid point but I would say that the stewards already concluded that anyway, hence them giving LH the penalty. They clearly thought the balance was that LHs move was a bit hopeful but nothing worse than that and gave him the penalty based on it.
Unfortunate RB seem to have forgotten the rule that the punishment is for the crime not for the knock on effects. Yes their knock on effects were an expensive crash that put their driver out of the race but these sorts of manourvers happen all the time and are a bit “he said she said” so the punishments aren’t ever that serious.
If 2 drivers make the same mistake they are punished the same.
IMHO he would have made the corner albeit on a very wide line but we will never know that for sure.
That gentle tap on his right rear wheel!
Exactly! It can’t have made much difference to the line really. I don’t think any F1 driver, no matter how bad, would think that a demolition derby move like that would help them get round the corner.
I don’t think any F1 driver, no matter how bad, would think that a demolition derby move like that would help them get round the corner.
That's not what they are saying. They are trying to prove that Hamilton was effectively out of control and would've gone off the track had Verstappen managed to make his car jump 6ft in the air to get out of the way.
See above "flimsy" comment though
I know it is unsporting but could toto not deploy bottas to give verstappen a nudge occasionally to wind up rb some more
They are trying to prove that Hamilton was effectively out of control and would’ve gone off the track had Verstappen managed to make his car jump 6ft in the air to get out of the way.
And he would have been the first driver in history to overcook a passing attempt, run wide, fail to gain the place and try again? It's hardly crime of the century and I'd question whether it's being "out of control", the drivers know exactly what run off is available at every corner so know how much wiggle room they have if they do get it wrong.
I know it is unsporting but could toto not deploy bottas to give verstappen a nudge occasionally to wind up rb some more
or get vettel todo it when he is being lapped
deploy bottas to give verstappen a nudge
He'd have to be close to do that (unless being lapped)!
And he would have been the first driver in history to overcook a passing attempt, run wide, fail to gain the place and try again? It’s hardly crime of the century and I’d question whether it’s being “out of control”, the drivers know exactly what run off is available at every corner so know how much wiggle room they have if they do get it wrong.
Yup, flimsy
Given that Hamilton had to apply corrections through the wheel when they collided, meaning he’d lost grip as a result of the contact, yet he still made it round the corner without leaving the track, I’d say “flimsy” is an understatement, but we shall see. It’s a pretty safe bet there wouldn’t have been a car’s width to his outside on exit, but then both the FIA and Christian Horner have said that the car on the outside should yield, so…
to be fair to TJ, he was saying Hammy wouldnt have made the corner 😀
"I know it is unsporting but could toto not deploy bottas to give verstappen a nudge occasionally to wind up rb some more"
I like your thinking, I think Max Verstappen is going to find it a little bit harder to work himself through the field after pit stops.
Hamilton has done the rest of the field a favour, I think they see it as Hammy putting some manners on the lad and they'll exploit the fact that MV will be under scrutiny at every overtake.
If it were the TDF we'd be calling Hamilton 'the patron'.
I believe the appeal has been thrown out.
I believe the appeal has been thrown out.
I hope the FIA outcome includes a requirement for all the other team bosses to point and laugh whenever they see Horner or Marko.
I’d like to see the penalty overturned and LH given a ten second head start at the next race.
Some hypocrisy here, that's for sure;
I believe the appeal has been thrown out.
It has
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/red-bull-fail-review-verstappen-hamilton-collision/
“They don’t expect me to just completely run off the track and then just keep my position - probably they would tell you that you cannot run off the track. So from my side, a bit surprised, yeah, that there is a little bit of a percentage [of responsibility] in there.”
What I think they expect, as James Allison calmly explained, is simply that he doesn’t keep his position. I’m not sure that possibility has entered Max’s head 😉 (Which, of course, would be part of what makes him the formidable adversary he is—but IMO does make him look a bit silly when he says things like that.)
Red Bull is understood to have presented several pieces of evidence to the stewards which they claim proved Hamilton entered Copse corner at a trajectory and speed which made the collision unavoidable.
Well, that’s bollocks, isn’t it: Max could have braked to allow Hamilton the corner and thus avoided the collision. (Which isn’t necessarily to say that he should have done that—just that “unavoidable” is hyperbole.) When Vettel hoofed him up the gearbox a couple of years ago, that was unavoidable for Max…
Good. Roll on Hungary and let's get back to racing 🙂
I can't help but feel this had been more a distraction to RB than Merc to be honest. Will be interesting to see if they both just knuckle down now and forget about it all.
Stewards dismiss Red Bull’s request for review of Hamilton’s Silverstone penalty, determining the evidence provided was neither new nor significant and had been created rather than discovered.
So...the stewards deemed that Red Bull were making sh!t up 😂
I can’t help but feel this had been more a distraction to RB than Merc to be honest. Will be interesting to see if they both just knuckle down now and forget about it all.
The teams forgetting about it (or at least "putting it aside for the duration") is one thing but the bloody media will be banging on about it for weeks more yet. It'll be in every interview with every Merc & RB driver and staffer (and probably a question asked of every other driver as well - "who do you think was at fault...?"), there'll be endless punditry about it, it'll be mentioned in every part of commentary when MV and LH are racing and there'll be wild speculation about how much impact that 25 points will have.
However, the final paragraph of the report does bring a further layer of controversy to this case through the mention of concerning “allegations” made in a letter from Red Bull, of which those slides were a part of.
“The stewards note, with some concern, certain allegations made in the Competitor’s above letter,” the report states.
“Such allegations may or may not have been relevant to the stewards if the Petition for Review had been granted.
“The stewards may have addressed these allegations directly in any decision that would have followed. The petition having been dismissed, the stewards make no comments on those allegations.”
Interesting...
Reading between the lines, perhaps they were trying to claim that Hamilton deliberately tried to punt Verstappen off.
Aside from anything, Hamilton would have to have a brain the size of a pea to do that, given that such a move would have had a high chance of ending both their races and he was 33 points behind at the time.
The content of the FIA’s statement seems like a fairly stiff middle finger to Red Bull:
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1420814770597466118
They’re really coming out of this looking like a proper bucket of dicks. Shame, really. I always liked the fact that I was relatively impartial about F1. Not any more 😂
Toto couldn't even be arsed to attend, classic.
Hdgaf.
Would have been extra hilarious if he’d just sent Ron Meadows and a couple of the catering staff 😂
speaking of 'desperate moves'....
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-red-bull-rejection-review/6638742/
But, at the risk of labouring the point, why go to the bother of getting Albon to create something that would look convincingly like a desperate and ill-judged lunge up the inside with an inevitable collision, when they could have simply discovered the on-board footage from Max’s car at Portimao? 🙂
😂😂😂😂
From the motorsport.com link they appear to think that maybe RedBull have criticised the stewards/FIA?? If that’s true that’s a REALLY bad move on RedBulls part. Throw mud around at other teams - they probable don’t mind - but criticise the governing body is really some thing way beyond that.
I hope someone leaks those “accusations”!!!!
Oh and BTW some of the memes on that Twitter thread are COMEDY GOLD.
😄
I'm just utterly bewildered as to what Red Bull think they could have achieved by all this nonsense. Feeling aggrieved by Hamilton winning after Max crashed is perfectly understandable, having a bit of a moan for a couple of days would be pretty normal. This "new evidence" stunt was just dumb - did they really expect anyone to take them seriously about this? The entire pitlane must be laughing their arses off.
Stewards dismiss Red Bull’s request for review of Hamilton’s Silverstone penalty, determining the evidence provided was neither new nor significant and had been created rather than discovered.
Apparently that was getting Albon to mimic Hamilton's speed and line on the simulator. He never made the corner.
This therefore proves that Albon in a Red Bull with their aero package and brake force/balance, on a simulation of the tyre wear and track conditions could not make the corner.
What this says about Hamilton in a totaly different car with tyres they can't possibly know about I'm not sure...
Possibly a little desperate 🤣
I'm looking forward to Coulthard (and maybe Webber) "interviewing" Karen Horner about this whole fiasco on the C4 coverage sponsored by RedBull.
Apparently that was getting Albon to mimic Hamilton’s speed and line on the simulator. He never made the corner.
Not on the sim...actually at Silverstone in a private test in a RB17 (?)
What a waste of money
What a waste of money
And second time this month that they‘ve forked out for an absolute car crash.
Mind you, it’s the Budapest cinemas I feel sorry for. I can’t imagine they can get hold of popcorn for love nor money right now.
Interesting…
I think that RB insinuated that Hamilton was let off as the stewards (at the British GP) were biased towards Hamilton (a British driver) and further, that they were biased against Verstappen. I think they cited the fact that Russell was given a 3 place grid penalty for his collision with Sainz...
Slightly undermined by the fact (obviously) that Russell is in fact; British...Desperate times indeed.
RB17
It was the RB15 (2019)
What a waste of money
Yep!
thepurist
Full Member
I’m looking forward to Coulthard (and maybe Webber) “interviewing” Karen Horner about this whole fiasco
Christ I'm not. The way those two handled the commentary live was excruciating. It was left to 'fluffy filler' Steve Jones to ask Karen the awkward questions at the wrap up whilst the two OAP Red Bull(shit) employees looked on like naughty schoolboys.
I think that RB insinuated that Hamilton was let off as the stewards (at the British GP) were biased towards Hamilton (a British driver) and further, that they were biased against Verstappen.
The stewards' decision was signed by Nish Shetty, Dennis Dean, Loic Bacquelaine, Emanuele Pirro, and Eric Cowcill. Do a Google search and see how many were British. RB might be right that they don't like Verstappen though, he's a difficult person to actually like rather than respect as a driver.
What a waste of money
I wonder how much change it left out of £1.3 million?
Do a Google search and see how many were British
I know they're not British, I think RB insinuation is that they were influenced by the fact it's a British driver and a British GP...It's incoherent, and I think shows the bottom of the barrel has well and truly been been reached.
It’s incoherent, and I think shows the bottom of the barrel has well and truly been been reached.
It is incoherent. There are always more barrels under the current barrel.
I'm not really enjoying the anti-Max sentiment or suggestions that the stewards might be biased TBH, Max is a racing driver paid to do a job.
One thing that did occur to me was that Max was the obvious candidate to replace Lewis at Merc, right up until Lewis signed a new two year contract...Red Bull's knobbery may have something to do with ensuring that particular bridge is burned.
If the stewards decided that RBR had created the information and not discovered it. Isn't that lying so bringing the sport into disrepute? Isn't there something like a £100m fine for that?
Although if rumours are to be believed the £100m fine was made up of £1m for the actual offence and $£99m because Max Mosley though Ron Dennis was a bit of a c***
Well, he wasn't wrong about that. 🙂
Although if rumours are to be believed the £100m fine was made up of £1m for the actual offence and $£99m because
Max Mosley thoughRon Dennis was a bit of a c***
FTFY
I think they meant that by getting Albon to attempt to drive the same GPS track that the stewards already had, all they'd achieved was creating a video attempting to show what would have happened to Hamilton. (Albeit driven by a different driver, in a different car, in different conditions..)
One thing that did occur to me was that Max was the obvious candidate to replace Lewis at Merc, right up until Lewis signed a new two year contract…Red Bull’s knobbery may have something to do with ensuring that particular bridge is burned.
As far as hiring drivers goes, Merc will take whoever is fastest. Something like this wouldn't come into it except that Max basically threw away the race by not yielding - he had a faster car so letting Hamilton past was much smarter than risking an accident. Saying dumb stuff after a crash isn't really going to come into hiring decisions.
Thing is, there was never any serious possibility of Hamilton retiring/going to Ferrari/etc. With Hamilton still at the top of his game and being a massive marketing asset with his anti-racism work, Merc have no need for Max. Max knew that so he signed a multi-year deal with Red Bull.
Hope they put the right soundtrack to intro Albon's reenactment.
Toto showing Red Bull how adults behave.
Just not getting better for Red Bull.
https://twitter.com/Motorsport/status/1421091711296626690
No idea if this is genuine, but Red Bull have an image problem either way.
https://twitter.com/swiftsambi/status/1420778553713389571
Mm, Horner is doing a fine line in saying he’s letting it go while not letting it go, casually listing the pile of chips on his shoulder while saying the matter’s closed.
Also still adopting his own version of the truth…
“We've lost a car in its entirety under a budget cap environment for something that the stewards didn't deem to be Max's fault.
Except the engine seems to be working fine, and the stewards didn’t say Hamilton was fully at fault, the implication being that they deemed Verstappen to be to some extent at faul.
“So there's nothing personal about it. But even a seven-time world champion can sometimes make mistakes, or misjudgements. That's just a fact of life, but at no point has this been personal about Lewis.”
Right, so comments like “I hope he can sleep tonight after what he’s done” don’t imply anything personal?
