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The stewards clearly felt that he should have. A tight call, probably just about the right one, but only just.
Nah, very clearly Hamilton's fault. You can tell the stewards thought so to, as it took them no time at all once they'd looked at the footage (and probably listened to the onboard of Hamilton keeping his foot flat to the floor) I don't think any racing driver worth his pay would've done anything different though.
he could have taken a tighter line, not opened the steering up
Yep, you're right, thanks for the correction, after I read it back I realised I'd got it the wrong way round, but it was too late to edit. D'oh!
I always think its a bit daft when us armchair enthusiastic fans try to call it one way or another.
Oh, absolutely. It's utter nonsense, but still fun to discuss 👍
Vettel, Hamilton, bad as each other 😉
And both outclassed by their teammates on the day.
Also, can't wait for Verstappen and Hamilton to go properly head to head. It was a shame that Verstappen's race ended so quickly and in the way that it did on Sunday
I can't wait for more "hilarious" antics when things aren't going his way
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
It will be F1's loss if that's the case, as he's a brilliant driver on his day. I can't believe he won't find a car.
Alonso at Renault?
Well, that is going to be one mother of a train wreck.
I can’t believe he won’t find a car.
Vettel’s out, always was IMO. Even if he wasn’t, he’s not exactly selling himself right now in any respect.
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
Will Racing Point dump Perez for an ex-champ? Not impossible.
Bottas was my bet to go to Renault, but that's dead. Will Merc dump him for Vettel? Not impossible.
But, my money's on Seb changing nappys next year unless he wants to hang out with Kimi again.
Will Merc dump him for Vettel? Not impossible.
I can't believe that Hamilton doesn't have a contract that gives him some say over his team-mate. Surely?
he’s not exactly selling himself right now in any respect.
No kidding, He's clearly had enough of racing with Ferrari.
Will Racing Point dump Perez for an ex-champ?
iirc Perez brings a lot of personal sponsorship to the team, it's effectively a pay to drive deal. Vettel will want paying, it wouldn't make any sense from any angle.
I can’t believe that Hamilton doesn’t have a contract that gives him some say over his team-mate. Surely?
Hamilton doesn't have a contract signed and is asking for a big pay rise. Having Vettel available reduces Hamilton's leverage. My money is on Hamilton and Bottas being re-signed next year, but crazier things have happened. My guess is that Vettel would drive for free if Merc offered him a seat.
I think Merc would look at Vettel’s last couple of seasons and keep clear of the rolling cluster ****.
Alonso at Renault?
Kind of feel sorry for Seb, but his performance on Sunday was one to forget. I get that it must be difficult for a four-times WDC to muster the enthusiasm to trundle round in the fifth fastest car on the grid, but the thought of Vettel heading to retirement at thirty three (he was born in 1987 FFS!) is a little disheartening. I can't see Merc offering him Bottas' seat, nor can I see him at Aston Martin unless Stroll makes a real pig's ear of things this year.
Alonso has a remarkable talent for upsetting manufacturers and it isn't just limited to Formula One. He'll be returning to F1 after a two-year sabbatical, forty years old and with a vaunted hotshoe team mate fifteen years his junior and a car that'll be midfield at best. Hmm...
My money is on Hamilton and Bottas being re-signed next year
I dunno, there are a couple of question marks there. One is how long does Hamilton want to keep going (probably a while longer) and the other is whether Bottas can properly sustain a title challenge thus year. If we get a good way into the season and Bottas has crumbled, my money’s on Hamilton and Russell. If Bottas is leading the championship through more than just good fortune when Toto comes to blow the dust off his pen, who knows?
I can't believe:
1. Renault have gone for Alonso
2. Alonso has gone for Renault
Ok, so Renault get a fast driver who can help develop the car but he's never been one to create team harmony, but what does he get out of it? He'll be in the midfield at best...
or can I see him at Aston Martin unless Stroll makes a real pig’s ear of things this year.
Doesn’t Stroll Snr have a sizeable investment in AM? If so jnr won’t be moving?
One is how long does Hamilton want to keep going (probably a while longer)
Hamilton is 35 and Schumacher* was 37 when he last won a GP (2006) . Wasn't Schumacher considered to be pretty fit? Can Hamilton maintain his current form for another 2 years? I'd have thought he can win races, whether he can resists the likes of Albon, Verstappen, LeClerc, and continue to win Championships, is another matter. I'd have thought his age, wage have got to start working against him at some point haven't they?
*Not the oldest to win a GP, but most of the 40+ year old drivers who were winning were racing back in the 1950's. Any bets on whether Hamilton can continue into his 40s?
Let's have a battle of the has-beens at Renault next year, Alonso Vs Vettel. \o/
Alonso will be racing next year at 40. Surely if Hamilton wins this year to equal Schumacher he’ll want to go one better. Also he’ll be closing in on 100 poles and 100 wins. Who could resist those goals?
ETA- if Mercedes have a dominant car again this year and next years specs largely unchanged it works in his favour.
Ok, so Renault get a fast driver who can help develop the car but he’s never been one to create team harmony, but what does he get out of it? He’ll be in the midfield at best…
But can he? I think someone on here summed it up quite well, comparing his time at Ferrari to Vettel. "Alonso can't develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one. Seb can develop a car but has done nothing with it"
He wasn't pushing McLaren in the right direction.
But can he? I think someone on here summed it up quite well, comparing his time at Ferrari to Vettel. “Alonso can’t develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one
Yeah that's a fair point..so Renault get a quick driver and publicity but they're basically looking at the occasional podium. And Alonso gets what? He can't still be motivated by money
I assume Alonso is hanging his hopes on the 2022 regs; he was probably looking at 2021 before covid kicked off, so I guess he's just going to take it as a year to get settled first.
Neither he nor Abiteboul seem to be particularly stable under pressure so I'm looking forward to Netflix in 2022-23 if nothing else. I expect Gunther's glazier will be casually leaving a business card on a table in the Renault motorhome.
Ocon's probably mightily cheesed off: he's going to have to share a garage with Captain Sulk and get his butt kicked on the track.
Doesn’t Stroll Snr have a sizeable investment in AM? If so jnr won’t be moving?
Yes, indeed he does but Perez comes with a long term contract and deep pockets. Stroll jnr has had his occasional moment but by and large he's been consistently outqualified and outraced by Perez. Stroll jnr didn't have a chance to shine in the race thanks to gremlins beyond his control, but once again he was outqualified by Perez. I am not sure that Stroll jnr is completely immune from being farmed out elsewhere if he doesn't perform.
“Alonso can’t develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one. Seb can develop a car but has done nothing with it”
He wasn’t pushing McLaren in the right direction.
I think that McLaren's problems ran deeper than driver feedback. The structure of the business under Ron was somewhat byzantine with various factions blaming one another for under-performance. It took a new CEO (Zak Brown) and Team Principal (Andreas Seidl) to shake the management structure and to put in the infrastructure needed to turn things around. Alonso was instrumental in developing the Renault R25 and R26, which won him a title apiece, meanwhile neither Jenson Button nor Lewis Hamilton could do much to avert McLaren's slide into mediocrity during 2011/12.
I assume Alonso is hanging his hopes on the 2022 regs; he was probably looking at 2021 before covid kicked off, so I guess he’s just going to take it as a year to get settled first.
I'd reached a similar conclusion, the delayed 2021 regulations deliver the potential for a 2009 style shake up of the familiar order. Alonso's reputation for histrionics will have closed doors at any Honda-powered team, Ferrari pretty much had enough of him back in 2014, Merc aren't short of world class drivers to pick from, all of whom are unlikely to publicly lambast the car after a bad weekend. I can't knock him for wanting another go at Formula One at the tender age of thirty-nine though, even if he turns out to be a bit 2010-2012 era Michael Schumacher.
Ocon’s probably mightily cheesed off: he’s going to have to share a garage with Captain Sulk and get his butt kicked on the track.
Ocon didn't have a stellar weekend just gone, did he? What was it, six places behind his teammate in qualifying? It would be churlish to judge him on one performance after an eighteen month sabbatical at the age of 24, but Ocon is historically fast and elbows out with teammates.
Renault in 2021 will be a spectacular meltdown.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
Signing Alonso in that context seems to make absolutely no sense to either Renault or Alonso.
It would be churlish to judge him on one performance
I wasn't really coming at it from that angle, more that Alonso can wring more out of a second-rate car than almost anyone.
more that Alonso can wring more out of a second-rate car than almost anyone.
Indeed he can, was it Azerbaijan in 2018 when he wrestled a broken McLaren to seventh? Mighty stuff, more than just one lap pace. But I wonder how much of his edge he'll have lost in two years out at forty.
Button reconed Fiscicella was the best driver at getting the nost out of a rubbish car.
And he was team mates with both Fisi and Alonso.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
McLaren did alright with that engine.
McLaren did alright with that engine.
Flattered by safety cars, though. Norris had a feisty start but once he’d been overhauled he looked down on power compared to the Merc and the Honda. Even on his final fastest lap he was around 20km/h down on Hamilton when he hit the brakes for turns 1, 3 and 4: it was through the medium speed turns in the third sector that he made the gains.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
I thought the engines were frozen for this year (other than for reliability updates) so the only opportunity for an upgrade was to bring one to the first race? Merc & Honda brought a new one, Ferrari & Renault didn't AFAIK.
I can see Alonso being a bit grumpy next year as I can't see the Renault being too competitive.
Flattered by safety cars, though
That feels a bit harsh, He did drive out of skin in the last laps, and as you say, got the fastest lap. Did mange to overtake Perez in the pink Merc as well. You can only take part in the same race as everyone after all. I think he did pretty well.
Flattered by safety cars, though
Nah. He qualified well, ran way up the field and kept his nerve.
If anyone was 'flattered' it was Leclerc. The Ferrari was the fourth best engine; third if you include reliability.
I think its great news
He'll add a bit of spice to things makes things become controversial
Ocon is very good, so I can see lots of strops, spat dummies and him regaining his place as F1's pantomime villain 🙂
As I remember it:
Alonso left Renault and joined McLaren.
Alonso left McLaren and re-joined Renault.
Alonso left Renault and joined Ferrari.
Ricciardo joined Red Bull and made Vettel look hopeless.
Alonso left Ferrari to join McLaren.
Vettel left Red Bull to join Ferrari.
Red Bull chose Verstappen over Sainz.
Sainz left Red Bull and joined Renault.
Alonso left McLaren.
Ricciardo left Red Bull and joined Renault.
Sainz left Renault and joined McLaren.
Leclerc made Vettel look hopeless, Vettel left Ferrari.
Sainz left McLaren and joined Ferrari.
Ricciardo left Renault and joined McLaren
Alonso rejoined Renault
Even on his final fastest lap he was around 20km/h down on Hamilton when he hit the brakes for turns 1, 3 and 4: it was through the medium speed turns in the third sector that he made the gains.
McLaren seem to have good single lap speed, but I concur with Bez's assessment that the Renault engine doesn't deliver the race pace of it's Merc (or Honda) rivals. Certainly Norris lost a couple of places mid race, but Norris and the team judged the race (and that final lap) to perfection to grab third.
Ricciardo seems to think that Renault were better than tenth on the grid, his Q3 run was cut short with Bottas's off-track excursion (which to be fair stymied Sainz too). Ocon reported that his car felt pretty good towards the latter part of the race, but it'c clear that we haven't seen Renault at their best yet.
I can see Alonso being a bit grumpy next year as I can’t see the Renault being too competitive.
As before, Alonso's focus will be on the new regulations for 2022 so he may view 2021 as a year for re-acclimatisation.
One other scenario to consider would be what happens if Vettel and Ferrari part company before the end of the season. Ferrari have Giovinazzi and Wehrlein as nominated reserves, the latter hasn't raced in F1 since 2017, so that could be problematic. Would Ferrari make a bid to obtain Sainz from McLaren before 2021?
That feels a bit harsh, He did drive out of skin in the last laps … I think he did pretty well.
Nah. He qualified well, ran way up the field and kept his nerve.
But I wasn't making a comment about Lando. His performance was outstanding: elbows out, lightning through the final sector at the end, and outperforming his highly-rated teammate all weekend.
What I was saying was that the Renault engine was flattered by the safety cars, because without those, things would have played out quite differently: the frontrunners would have pulled further away and Lando wouldn't have had so much opportunity to play the cards the way he did. Austria is power-sensitive and the Renault looked lacking. Safety cars kept them in the game.
Much the same could be said of Leclerc and Ferrari, to be honest: the Ferraris probably would have been more hampered by the pace deficit in a flat-out race, but Leclerc put in a superlative drive to make the most of the opportunities of a bunched-up pack.
Both drivers got lucky, but nonetheless were on the podium very much on individual merit.
What I was saying was that the Renault engine was flattered by the safety cars
Qualified 4th though... so not that much flattery, but yeah Norris is better than the car is currently
Much the same could be said of Leclerc and Ferrari, to be honest:
I did say that.
Qualified 4th though… so not that much flattery
Fair point (and again reinforcing the point that Norris had the measure of Sainz), although qualifying mode vs race mode makes it a slightly different kettle of fish.
reinforcing the point that Norris had the measure of Sainz
Oh, totally agree, I really can't make up my mind about which of these two is the better driver overall though. Sainz has admitted that his lack pace was entirely down to him, he said he just wasn't having a good weekend (excuse?). I want to say that Sainz is probably the better driver (He is the one with the Ferrari contract in his back pocket after all) but you've got to hand it to Norris, he total over-performed at the weekend. With the next GP at Austria again, the fight between these two will be (hopefully) on fire.
Well, there’s no disputing that Sainz had the upper hand and was the more complete package last year, so it remains to be seen whether last weekend was just a flash in the pan. Fortunately we only have a couple of days until we find out 😀