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He … definitely opened the wheel to block LH once back on track. Wurz’s observation in Bez’s post above is spot on.
Hm?
As far as I can see, Wurz disagrees entirely with your assessment of Vettel's actions. His comments from the linked article:
"It wasn't intentional to close the door and squeeze Lewis … I don't think he drove in front of Lewis intentionally, as aggressive as it might look on TV, because his head moves to look in the mirror [only] after the correction is finished."
I thought it was ****ing obvious, but let me separate the two things.
1 - Vettel opened the wheel to prevent Hamilton passing him (IMVHO).
2 - The rules are sufficiently detailed as to specify that a penalty in that case must be applied.
I don't agree with Wurtz where he says Vettel's move was not deliberate - I also don't particularly agree that the punishment fit the crime, or that any punishment even need be necessary. I do agree with him that the rules specify that a penalty be applied, as a result of the community insisting that behaviour be increasingly moderated,.
Well it wasn’t obvious to me pondo.
When you said Wurz was spot on, I assumed you meant you agreed with what he said, not some bits of what he said.
However. You are clear now so that’s fine.
I thought it was **** obvious
To be fair, writing "[Opinion X]. Wurz's observation is spot on." rather implies that you're referring to Wurz's observation about Opinion X, not Opinion Y 🙂
Anyway, no matter. We (and Wurz) agree that a punishment wasn't necessary in this case, at least.
Personally I don't agree the steering was for blocking. It's exactly the steering input I'd expect to see when the front end bumps over a kerb and hits tarmac while the back end's still on the grass. Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.
For me (and I think, logically, for anyone who takes the above view about the steering) the only question is whether Vettel could/should have rejoined the track at a shallower angle across the flat transition to the left of the kerb, which would have kept him off the racing line and required less steering correction. But getting the car under control—which takes time and thought in itself—and then making that non-instinctive decision and getting the car appropriately positioned and turned while on grass in the heat of the moment is a big ask. It takes someone with more insight into a top F1 driver's cognitive capacity to make the call as to whether it's too big an ask or not.
Personally I don’t agree the steering was for blocking. It’s exactly the steering input I’d expect to see when the front end bumps over a kerb and hits tarmac while the back end’s still on the grass. Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.
But they're not talking about the steering when he bumps over the grass/kerb/immediately after rejoining the track to avoid a spin; they are talking about him opening the steering after the corrections are all done. He (allegedly) opens the wheel again to let the car run wide into Hamilton's path. They think he could have steered away from the wall once the car was stable.
Anyway, back to the serious business 😎 Rich Energy are making more friends:
https://twitter.com/harrismonkey/status/1138540745168752640
But they’re not talking about the steering when he bumps over the grass/kerb/immediately after rejoining the track to avoid a spin; they are talking about him opening the steering after the corrections are all done. He (allegedly) opens the wheel again to let the car run wide into Hamilton’s path. They think he could have steered away from the wall once the car was stable.
Mm, it's a bit hard to pick apart the exact details because in this scenario the rules don't differentiate between a deliberately dangerous manoeuvre and a recovery that happens to be dangerous. From watching the onboard in slow motion my thoughts were the same as what Wurz seems to be saying: that he regained control on the grass but then (quite understandably) didn't try to turn the car once it was controlled, bumped back onto the track and inevitably had to open the steering to correct the effects of going from a low-friction surface to a high-friction one at an angle and over a kerb, and then once he'd collected that he looked in the mirror and didn't appear to steer to the right again.
The stewards have access to more data than I or even Wurz do, though, so it's all a bit moot; I'm sure they made a quite justifiable decision. But I don't think I've seen anything from the stewards to suggest that there was intentional blocking. Happy to change opinion if that does appear, though.
Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.
Indeed, if he'd spun and centre punched Hamilton with the rear of his car we wouldn't be talking penalties only that S%&# happens, pity but thats racing.
It was all just racing. Blocking is part of racing. And Vettel’s course of action was totally foreseeable for anyone who’s done even done a bit of racing, let alone Hamilton who’s spent 12 years at the top. He knew it was going to be close when Vettel rejoined and he went for the gap as much as possible until it was clear it was likely to end up with a collision if he didn’t back off. Both of them did the things, the right things, that any decent racer would do.
Unfortunately the rules are what they are now, which lands us with this silly mess.
Although at least we no longer have to listen to Alonso radioing in every time someone so much as farts in front of him.
From watching the onboard in slow motion my thoughts were the same as what Wurz seems to be saying: that he regained control on the grass but then (quite understandably) didn’t try to turn the car once it was controlled, bumped back onto the track and inevitably had to open the steering to correct the effects of going from a low-friction surface to a high-friction one at an angle and over a kerb, and then once he’d collected that he looked in the mirror and didn’t appear to steer to the right again.
I still think you're still looking too early in the incident (if I'm interpreting the autosport article right).
Once he's on the tarmac, count how many times he steers right. One big turn to correct the snap, then after that two or three more times to (allegedly) adjust his line to block hamilton when he could continued going left.
I say allegedly because I'm not sure I agree with their view, but I think that's what they're taking about.
"Although at least we no longer have to listen to Alonso radioing in every time someone so much as farts in front of him."
We've now got Groanjean for that.
then after that two or three more times to (allegedly) adjust his line to block hamilton when he could continued going left.
I dunno, I'm not seeing anything that looks beyond what I'd expect for correcting the car. Meh 🙂
We’ve now got Groanjean for that.
Yeah, true, Perez's (excellent) pass at turn 1 was a good example; I guess it's normally overshadowed by his constant complaints about his brakes or various other bits of his car. Though it seems that last weekend that job was taken on in toe-curlingly spectacular fashion by his teammate 🙂
Verstappen in a Merc next year with Vettel?
Hamo to Ferrari?
Can't see that happening, but would love to see Lewis in a Ferrari.
Why on earth would Merc be interested in swapping Hamilton for Vettel? And why would Hamilton want to leave the most dominant team in history for one that can't even get simple strategy calls right?
Why on earth would Merc be interested in swapping Hamilton for Vettel?
German team - German driver. Board may feel they have milked Hamilton's profile for as much as they'll get.
Can't see Vettel shifting many units to the U.S. rap crowd though! 🙂
And I feel Lewis will end his career in a Ferrari. Possible jumping in a year before the new regs come out may be a sensible option.
And I bet secretly Lewis would love to give Ferrari their first drivers title since Kimi - getting one over Alonso and Vettel into the bargain.
Merc have already had a WDC with a German driver, not too long ago...
My money is on Lewis staying at Merc until he equals Schumacher's tally of WDCs before moving to Ferrari. He might feel that the aggravation of building a team around him there is fraught with difficulty given that it's stymied people of the calibre of Prost, Alesi, Alonso and Vettel.
German team – German driver.
They're a German owned team, not a German team. I don't think they care about where their drivers come from, just whether they can deliver. Hamilton breaking record after record is much better for marketing than Vettel throwing away title after title.
Ferrari Appeal thrown out.
There are no significant or new elements which were unavailable to the parties at the time
Clucking bell, Williams are miles off the pace still. And Kubica slower than Russell and Latifi.
Hamilton under investigation in FP2 for rejoining in an unsafe manner and forcing another driver off the track 🙈
Old news?! He was cleared of it as he, verstsappen and the stewards all agreed there was nothing he could do about it, he rejoined slowly and there was no chance he could see verstsappen coming from the circuit profile, corner and mirror visibility
Good to see Maclaren getting some decent times in.
mr pole at it again.
Fingerboy not having a good day...
Who's going to get the boot first - Gasly or Kubika? Horner made it pretty clear on C4 that Gasly needs to start delivering, and I read that Kubikas sponsors are looking for other options for him. Oh and will that be before Seb quits?
McLaren doing the usual Alonso leaving a team bounce! Also just how good does Lando Norris look, no wonder they dropped Vandoorne to give Norris a seat.
Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari might try helping Leclerc to capitalise on that 3rd place? Or will then still move him out the way to let FingerBoy through...?
Wild predictions for next year:
Kvyat promoted back to Red Bull senior team to replace Gasly. (Quite likely IMO).
Vettel retires, replaced by Ricciardo. (Less likely, but possible).
Alonso back to Renault to replace Ricciardo. (Not likely, but can't hurt to hope).
Can't see Hamilton leaving Mercedes for ferrari, ferrari are only capable of shooting themselves in the foot, anyone hear the exchange between leclerc asking Vettel to get a move on. Classic
a lot of nursing some very hot and bothered motors out front
Safety car please. This is shite.
Struggling to stay awake here!!
Terrible race from Gasly. Another 'too-soon' promotion from Red Bull?
Gasley is for the chop at this rate
I've pretty much slept through this
I’ve pretty much slept through this
What? The battle for 7th to 10th places is fascinating.
Time penalties for Dan Ric, down to 11th.
a ton of DRS simple overtakes and a wounded car getting swamped on the last lap doesnt make it a fascinating race. total borefest
what happened to the new front wings allowing closer racing and overtakes,!?!?
jeeez compare this to the LE MANS WEC last week........... no contest - lets see a the WEC race every weekend
who would fill Gasleys seat? Answers to helmut please
I hope they give him a bit more time.
Alonso!
Vergne? Would like to see him given a shot in the RB.
Is he still attached to RB in any way?
jeeez compare this to the LE MANS WEC last week……….. no contest – lets see a the WEC race every weekend
You should have watched the nurburg 24hr which ended about 15mins after the f1 started.
even better than Le Mans was.
154 cars started and it runs on the fulls circuit comprising the GP circuit and the north loop.
Agreed, the 24 hours of Nurburgring was a good race I just couldn't figure out all the classes!
i believe it runs something like these classes.
So the overall win went to a GT3 class car, while the Aston Martin Racing entry with Alex Brundle and Jamie Chadwick which won their "SP8T" class meaning they were in a category of race cars with engines upto 4ltr (with turbo)
Considering they had a gearbox issue at the start and ended up having to catch up their starting group and i think started 134th they finished 28th overall.