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Nascar is awesome, but to do that in an F1 car, you'd need to rewrite the technical regulations so that it was no longer F1. The F1 audience would not be interested.
reggiegasketthe problem is the same problem F1 always has, and it’s boring to write it I know but…on some tracks, you just can’t overtake on track with evenly-matched cars. Hence the race is won or lost in the pits, by accident or design. [and Hamilton blowing up doesn’t change that]
I only watch the highlights these days but from what I’ve seen many of the races – half? – are won or lost by the pit strategy, rather than someone being a faster driver/car, which isn’t really what it should be like. Compare that to the recent motogp race at Assen. Now that was racing.
I agree that there is not enough 'natural' (as opposed to DRS/pitlane) overtaking and the regs should be changed to help this, however, it's *always* going to be harder to overtake in a fast, high down-force open wheel racing car with carbon brakes than on a bike. So the overtakes are something special when they happen.
To me watching the timing as somebody pits, come out on fresh tyres, closes the gap, then times it just right to make the move is more exciting than watching two motorbikes easily swap positions 20 times.
One of the examples of this I remember was from when I was 4 years old, watching with my dad. Mansell/Picquet at Silverstone '87. I've watched it countless times since and it's still just as exciting. Think he took 5 seconds out of Piquet in 2 laps, then the dummy and brilliant pass. Superb. That's not to take anything away from motogp, they're just very different sports.
Also the format/length of the races lend themselves very well to strategy, and TBH I like that aspect. Especially when a small team 'outwits' a big front runner.
To paraphrase the film Training Day, F1 is chess not draughts!
I understand that about F1, I really do (the tactical/technical thing). But I suspect you're also being sold short, and over the years you've just become used to nothing much happening on track, so now it's normal for nothing much to happen on track.
[and your example is of Mansell overtaking <span style="text-decoration: underline;">on the track</span>... which is what I'm on about...]
If the grand prix hadn't had tyre blistering issues, or the VSC, would anyone have overtaken anyone else (at the sharp end) on the track?
Yes but you were comparing it to motogp where overtakes are easy and riders can spend a whole race swapping positions back and forth. What I'm saying is that F1 cannot and will not ever be like that. Nor can drivers spend a race banging wheels like in Legend's youtube video (Maldonado excepted).
Also the qualifying format puts the fastest cars at the front. So it's often only when then are things like car faults, tyre blistering, VSC that you end up with cars out of position and therefore in a position to overtake.
Honestly to me this era is not the worst by a long shot, that would be Schumachers (2004ish). He drives off into the distance and wins pretty much every race. Or the Vettel era where again he drives off at the start then manages a 20 second gap the entire race.
Bye bye Boullier
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/boullier-resigns-as-mclaren-s-racing-director-1055781/?s=1
Wow...it's not unexpected - Boullier has been under pressure for some time.
His assertions about "the best chassis on the grid" have become rather stale.
Blimey, no comments about the British GP?
Quite a good race I thought.
Max vs Kimi, bloody good driving round the outside by Max
if the embedded vid ain't doing nuffink, link is http:// streamable.com / bbv6m without the spaces
Yeah decent race, but livened up by the SCs at the end. Don't think there's any Ferrari crash for cash conspiracy going on though. Ham's state ofter the quali lap shows just how much pressure there is to perform even though Joe Public probably thinks he just cruises to poles/wins.
Brilliant, looks like this race could go to the end of the season.
Again Max Verstappen hasn't learned - he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it's much easier to maintain speed if you don't even try to obey the track limits.
DaffyAgain Max Verstappen hasn’t learned – he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it’s much easier to maintain speed if you don’t even try to obey the track limits.
Yep, you're totally right, but I saw a few people doing that through the race, and race control didn't do anything then either. Guess they'd been told they wouldn't be enforcing it strictly.
Also here's Verstappen's spin & retirement (note: uncensored swearing)
Not great. Not sure I can let this slide though...
No, like I understand the difference between “moot” and “mute”, the former actually meaning open for discussion.
Not that his breakdown precludes any investigation over the strategy failure, but ultimately he could have been two laps ahead and he’d still have broken down. The end result is the same.
Moot has multiple definitions:
Adjective:
1. subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.
2. having little or no practical relevance.
Verb:
1. raise (a question or topic) for discussion; suggest (an idea or possibility).
Mute just means silent/to make silent. So you still meant moot, not mute. Although as said Hamilton's car was indeed mute in Austria. That fact making their poor strategy call moot.
Quite enjoyed Silverstone, obviously nonsense about Ferrari having it in for Merc, that would be astonishingly hard to orchestrate. Good result for Hamilton under the circumstances. Great drive from Bottas early on but he really seemed to pay the price in the latter stages, which is a shame. Not sure it was luck necessarily.
Again Max Verstappen hasn’t learned – he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it’s much easier to maintain speed if you don’t even try to obey the track limits.
Eh? There were certain corners where virtually every driver was leaving the track entirely, so not really fair to target Max alone, in this regard.
Eh? There were certain corners where virtually every driver was leaving the track entirely, so not really fair to target Max alone, in this regard.
True, but he was the only one to actually overtake someone off the track so targeting Max in this regard seems perfectly legitimate.
True, but he was the only one to actually overtake someone off the track so targeting Max in this regard seems perfectly legitimate.
Penalising him in this instance to me would seem like an even more silly interpretation of the rules.
Drivers, you can go over the markings with your whole car on corners X, Y & Z to reduce your lap time, EVERY LAP. But you can't do the same thing to affect an overtake......because that would be wrong.....erm. OK.
Either you should be able to do it, or you shouldn't. IMO, of course.
Oof, I missed this from Magnussen/Alonso, what a ****
"This video contain content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it from display on this website or application"
njee20
“This video contain content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it from display on this website or application”
Click the text at the top or the Watch On Youtube text to view it on youtube itself. It's some copyright boswollocks from FOM
Since the update there's no way I've found to post the link without the forum embedding the vid.
Hamilton is such a whinging sod though.
Click the text at the top or the Watch On Youtube text to view it on youtube itself. It’s some copyright boswollocks from FOM
Ah, ta. The subtitles are ridiculously annoying, but that's some 'defensive' driving!
Wow! Do yourself a favour and watch the highlights.
The 3 minute ones on YouTube?
when I heard Hamilton was in 14th place, I thought "Oh, race on, this might be interesting" but no... F1 has become so lopsided that he can go from 14th to 6th in 11 laps, why? Because no one actually wants to get in his way lest it hampers their own race to a mid place...
Did you watch it Nickc?
i thought Hamilton really brought something extra to his game today.
i thought Hamilton really brought something extra to his game today.
You’re kidding right?
i watched the midfield all hold their line and let him glide past, not even a hint of defence...even Magnussen failed to defend!
worst part was the final few laps though, Grosjean made up 3/4 places in 2 laps and we didn’t get to see it.
Yup, the midfield all gave him an easy ride, which wasn't all that surprising.
But even if the passes weren't riveting, he still tapped out the fast laps with no mistakes; at one stage he took nearly 5 seconds out of Raikkonen in one lap and was closing on Vettel quickly enough to be on for a potential win even without him binning it. It wasn't the most dramatic downpour in history, but Hamilton certainly seemed to be in a class of his own when the track was at its wettest.
I know he has his haters (i'm not one of them btw) but putting the ease at which he got through the field aside, Hamilton was in a league of his own yesterday. Watch the full highlights on C4 and his pace combined with how he looked after his tyres in the first stint, while being in the dirty air of other cars was nothing short of insane! No other driver got even close to how many laps Lewis did on the Soft tyre (i'm probably wrong but I recall the driver who got closest was Alonso on 31 laps) and certainly not at the pace he managed to keep up. When the rain came he made up more than 10 seconds on Vettel in 6 laps, dare say even had he not binned it he would be have been a good bet for the win anyway. I can see why Lewis has his haters, but there can be no denying at all he is the best driver of his generation alongside Alonso.
You're right of course, Hamilton will have an easy ride through the field up to the top 8 but there are only really 5 cars in front of him he has to really worry about. As has been pointed out others can slow him down but only at a cost to their own race. That last 5 though can really give him grief.
The story for me yesterday was how he kept his softs going and then when on the ultras handled the wet sections so well and then dominated on the dry sections. A great call by the strategy guys and an excellent drive by him to capitalise on it.
The only sad thing (but totally understandable) was the team's radio to Bottas.
If it was so easy why didn't Vettel do it?
As much as I enjoyed the win (esp. after Vettels 'beat them in their own territory' comment from silverstone), I can't understand how Lewis didn't receive a penalty.
Just seems to be random whether they punish people for breaking the rule, or the outcome.
Which rule do people think Hamilton broke? FIA Sporting Regs are here
https://www.fia.com/file/70710/download/23276?token=szOjLZMY
The only thing I can see is 27.3 which is the general rule about leaving/rejoining the track
Why Hamilton avoided a tougher penalty
Although Hamilton was adjudged to have committed an offence, the stewards' official verdict revealed he had escaped a stiffer penalty because:- 'The driver and the team candidly admitted the mistake and the fact there was confusion within the team as to whether to stay out or to enter the pits and that led to the infringement.'
- 'The fact that the infringement took place during a Safety Car period.'
- 'At no time was there any danger to any other competitor and the change in direction was executed in a safe way.'
Summing up, the stewards concluded: 'Taking all of the above into account, including considering previous infringements of the above rule, we are of the opinion that a reprimand would be the appropriate penalty for the said infringement on this occasion.'
As much as I enjoyed the win (esp. after Vettels ‘beat them in their own territory’ comment from silverstone), I can’t understand how Lewis didn’t receive a penalty.
Just seems to be random whether they punish people for breaking the rule, or the outcome.
Most punishments come in the race when there has been an incident where someone has done something so someone else loses out, this is either hitting someone, causing someone to crash, blocking an overtake illegally. They are normally dealt with during the race, which is quite right, as the offender should not benefit from breaking the rules.
Lewis did not gain an advantage, he didn't hinder anyone else's race. However there was an infringement and he was punished after the race.
There was no consideration of the effects of the infringement as has been demanded recently, the only things that were considered were the circumstances which led up to it happening and the risk it posed to other drivers. If the effects had been considered he would maybe have had no penalty as he surely lost out by driving over the grass!
I think it was a fair penalty to what was a minor issue.
Hamilton was in a league of his own yesterday. Watch the full highlights on C4 and his pace combined with how he looked after his tyres in the first stint, while being in the dirty air of other cars was nothing short of insane! No other driver got even close to how many laps Lewis did on the Soft tyre (i’m probably wrong but I recall the driver who got closest was Alonso on 31 laps) and certainly not at the pace he managed to keep up. When the rain came he made up more than 10 seconds on Vettel in 6 laps, dare say even had he not binned it he would be have been a good bet for the win anyway.
Even you are a Hamilton hater you have to respect this, he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet. While everyone else was slip-sliding around LH was casually lapping faster than everyone else and making huge gains which no-one else around him was doing.
The one thing LH does is trust the team in the pits. He was told over the radio that the rain wouldn't last long so he stayed out and coped with it - I know Merc haven't made some great calls recently but the detail they gave to LH was very accurate and gave him the info he needed exactly at the right time. He doesn't moan when things go wrong, but he does question why things have happended, which he would have every right to.
Bottas - no-one has mentioned what a great driver he is. I don't think he would have got past LH but he up for showing he has some fighting spirit which was nice to see from him.
A lot of drivers would be whinging about having to obey orders but he's got his head screwed on right - he probably expected some sort of instruction yesterday and Merc did let him have a go but he was grown up about it and just accepted it, said ok and left it at that.
Vettel - I've never enjoyed someone crashing out quite so much, and the fact that he had a little cry and a tantrum about it was the icing on the cake for me. And a bit of potty-mouth too.
he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet.
Apart from Jenson Button of course
The one thing LH does is trust the team in the pits.
He doesn’t moan when things go wrong
Are we talking about the same LH? He is an absolutely brilliant driver and he was at his best on Sunday, but he hasn't always accepted decisions made in the pits and he can be a whiny little brat when things don't go his way.
he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet.
I hate to say anything nice about MV, but he really does seem to be pretty handy in the wet.
thepuristWhich rule do people think Hamilton broke? FIA Sporting Regs are here
https://www.fia.com/file/70710/download/23276?token=szOjLZMY
The only thing I can see is 27.3 which is the general rule about leaving/rejoining the track
It's Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4(d) but that's the wrong document you're looking at
[b]d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating
the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is
prohibited[/b]
https://www.fia.com/file/69631/download/12831?token=iw8UzQo0
newrobdobMost punishments come in the race when there has been an incident where someone has done something so someone else loses out, this is either hitting someone, causing someone to crash, blocking an overtake illegally. They are normally dealt with during the race, which is quite right, as the offender should not benefit from breaking the rules.
Lewis did not gain an advantage, he didn’t hinder anyone else’s race. However there was an infringement and he was punished after the race.
There was no consideration of the effects of the infringement as has been demanded recently, the only things that were considered were the circumstances which led up to it happening and the risk it posed to other drivers. If the effects had been considered he would maybe have had no penalty as he surely lost out by driving over the grass!
I think it was a fair penalty to what was a minor issue.
But all the other drivers [i]did[/i] lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.
And he was on new ultras against old softs when the rain started.
Helps a bit.
But all the other drivers <em class="bbcode-em">did lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.
Thats being a bit obtuse - like saying other people lost out because he was driving faster. Drivers only get in race penalties when they directly affect another drivers race eg crashing/blocking/forcing off track.
He broke the rules, the team admitted it and he got a punishment. He didn’t get away with it. You could argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime but it wouldn’t be an argument you’d win as when you compare it with someone getting a 5s penalty (that they take during a pit stop) for hitting someone else what LH did hardly deserves more punishment than he got.
Good lord. That all went very wrong very quickly.
Excellent business man who was totally devoted to his brands.
thepuristBlimey – Marchionne has died.
RIP 🙁
newrobdob
But all the other drivers <em class=”bbcode-em”>did lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.Thats being a bit obtuse – like saying other people lost out because he was driving faster. Drivers only get in race penalties when they directly affect another drivers race eg crashing/blocking/forcing off track.
He broke the rules, the team admitted it and he got a punishment. He didn’t get away with it. You could argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime but it wouldn’t be an argument you’d win as when you compare it with someone getting a 5s penalty (that they take during a pit stop) for hitting someone else what LH did hardly deserves more punishment than he got.
You know, I still disagree and don't think it is being obtuse.
The team ****ed up and as a result Lewis should have gone down the pit lane and lost time relative to everyone else. He should therefore have had a penalty (not a reprimand) for not doing this.
The good news is though, now a precedent has been set so that rule can be ignored anyway.
The good news is though, now a precedent has been set so that rule can be ignored anyway.
Except the rule wasn't ignored, see the text you quoted for details. HTH