i thought Hamilton really brought something extra to his game today.
You’re kidding right?
i watched the midfield all hold their line and let him glide past, not even a hint of defence...even Magnussen failed to defend!
worst part was the final few laps though, Grosjean made up 3/4 places in 2 laps and we didn’t get to see it.
Yup, the midfield all gave him an easy ride, which wasn't all that surprising.
But even if the passes weren't riveting, he still tapped out the fast laps with no mistakes; at one stage he took nearly 5 seconds out of Raikkonen in one lap and was closing on Vettel quickly enough to be on for a potential win even without him binning it. It wasn't the most dramatic downpour in history, but Hamilton certainly seemed to be in a class of his own when the track was at its wettest.
I know he has his haters (i'm not one of them btw) but putting the ease at which he got through the field aside, Hamilton was in a league of his own yesterday. Watch the full highlights on C4 and his pace combined with how he looked after his tyres in the first stint, while being in the dirty air of other cars was nothing short of insane! No other driver got even close to how many laps Lewis did on the Soft tyre (i'm probably wrong but I recall the driver who got closest was Alonso on 31 laps) and certainly not at the pace he managed to keep up. When the rain came he made up more than 10 seconds on Vettel in 6 laps, dare say even had he not binned it he would be have been a good bet for the win anyway. I can see why Lewis has his haters, but there can be no denying at all he is the best driver of his generation alongside Alonso.
You're right of course, Hamilton will have an easy ride through the field up to the top 8 but there are only really 5 cars in front of him he has to really worry about. As has been pointed out others can slow him down but only at a cost to their own race. That last 5 though can really give him grief.
The story for me yesterday was how he kept his softs going and then when on the ultras handled the wet sections so well and then dominated on the dry sections. A great call by the strategy guys and an excellent drive by him to capitalise on it.
The only sad thing (but totally understandable) was the team's radio to Bottas.
If it was so easy why didn't Vettel do it?
As much as I enjoyed the win (esp. after Vettels 'beat them in their own territory' comment from silverstone), I can't understand how Lewis didn't receive a penalty.
Just seems to be random whether they punish people for breaking the rule, or the outcome.
Which rule do people think Hamilton broke? FIA Sporting Regs are here
https://www.fia.com/file/70710/download/23276?token=szOjLZMY
The only thing I can see is 27.3 which is the general rule about leaving/rejoining the track
Why Hamilton avoided a tougher penalty
Although Hamilton was adjudged to have committed an offence, the stewards' official verdict revealed he had escaped a stiffer penalty because:- 'The driver and the team candidly admitted the mistake and the fact there was confusion within the team as to whether to stay out or to enter the pits and that led to the infringement.'
- 'The fact that the infringement took place during a Safety Car period.'
- 'At no time was there any danger to any other competitor and the change in direction was executed in a safe way.'
Summing up, the stewards concluded: 'Taking all of the above into account, including considering previous infringements of the above rule, we are of the opinion that a reprimand would be the appropriate penalty for the said infringement on this occasion.'
As much as I enjoyed the win (esp. after Vettels ‘beat them in their own territory’ comment from silverstone), I can’t understand how Lewis didn’t receive a penalty.
Just seems to be random whether they punish people for breaking the rule, or the outcome.
Most punishments come in the race when there has been an incident where someone has done something so someone else loses out, this is either hitting someone, causing someone to crash, blocking an overtake illegally. They are normally dealt with during the race, which is quite right, as the offender should not benefit from breaking the rules.
Lewis did not gain an advantage, he didn't hinder anyone else's race. However there was an infringement and he was punished after the race.
There was no consideration of the effects of the infringement as has been demanded recently, the only things that were considered were the circumstances which led up to it happening and the risk it posed to other drivers. If the effects had been considered he would maybe have had no penalty as he surely lost out by driving over the grass!
I think it was a fair penalty to what was a minor issue.
Hamilton was in a league of his own yesterday. Watch the full highlights on C4 and his pace combined with how he looked after his tyres in the first stint, while being in the dirty air of other cars was nothing short of insane! No other driver got even close to how many laps Lewis did on the Soft tyre (i’m probably wrong but I recall the driver who got closest was Alonso on 31 laps) and certainly not at the pace he managed to keep up. When the rain came he made up more than 10 seconds on Vettel in 6 laps, dare say even had he not binned it he would be have been a good bet for the win anyway.
Even you are a Hamilton hater you have to respect this, he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet. While everyone else was slip-sliding around LH was casually lapping faster than everyone else and making huge gains which no-one else around him was doing.
The one thing LH does is trust the team in the pits. He was told over the radio that the rain wouldn't last long so he stayed out and coped with it - I know Merc haven't made some great calls recently but the detail they gave to LH was very accurate and gave him the info he needed exactly at the right time. He doesn't moan when things go wrong, but he does question why things have happended, which he would have every right to.
Bottas - no-one has mentioned what a great driver he is. I don't think he would have got past LH but he up for showing he has some fighting spirit which was nice to see from him.
A lot of drivers would be whinging about having to obey orders but he's got his head screwed on right - he probably expected some sort of instruction yesterday and Merc did let him have a go but he was grown up about it and just accepted it, said ok and left it at that.
Vettel - I've never enjoyed someone crashing out quite so much, and the fact that he had a little cry and a tantrum about it was the icing on the cake for me. And a bit of potty-mouth too.
he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet.
Apart from Jenson Button of course
The one thing LH does is trust the team in the pits.
He doesn’t moan when things go wrong
Are we talking about the same LH? He is an absolutely brilliant driver and he was at his best on Sunday, but he hasn't always accepted decisions made in the pits and he can be a whiny little brat when things don't go his way.
he really is far far better than anyone in recent years when it comes to driving in the wet.
I hate to say anything nice about MV, but he really does seem to be pretty handy in the wet.
thepuristWhich rule do people think Hamilton broke? FIA Sporting Regs are here
https://www.fia.com/file/70710/download/23276?token=szOjLZMY
The only thing I can see is 27.3 which is the general rule about leaving/rejoining the track
It's Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 4(d) but that's the wrong document you're looking at
[b]d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating
the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is
prohibited[/b]
https://www.fia.com/file/69631/download/12831?token=iw8UzQo0
newrobdobMost punishments come in the race when there has been an incident where someone has done something so someone else loses out, this is either hitting someone, causing someone to crash, blocking an overtake illegally. They are normally dealt with during the race, which is quite right, as the offender should not benefit from breaking the rules.
Lewis did not gain an advantage, he didn’t hinder anyone else’s race. However there was an infringement and he was punished after the race.
There was no consideration of the effects of the infringement as has been demanded recently, the only things that were considered were the circumstances which led up to it happening and the risk it posed to other drivers. If the effects had been considered he would maybe have had no penalty as he surely lost out by driving over the grass!
I think it was a fair penalty to what was a minor issue.
But all the other drivers [i]did[/i] lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.
And he was on new ultras against old softs when the rain started.
Helps a bit.
But all the other drivers <em class="bbcode-em">did lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.
Thats being a bit obtuse - like saying other people lost out because he was driving faster. Drivers only get in race penalties when they directly affect another drivers race eg crashing/blocking/forcing off track.
He broke the rules, the team admitted it and he got a punishment. He didn’t get away with it. You could argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime but it wouldn’t be an argument you’d win as when you compare it with someone getting a 5s penalty (that they take during a pit stop) for hitting someone else what LH did hardly deserves more punishment than he got.
Good lord. That all went very wrong very quickly.
Excellent business man who was totally devoted to his brands.
thepuristBlimey – Marchionne has died.
RIP 🙁
newrobdob
But all the other drivers <em class=”bbcode-em”>did lose out, he should have gone through the pit lane therefore lost time relative to them.Thats being a bit obtuse – like saying other people lost out because he was driving faster. Drivers only get in race penalties when they directly affect another drivers race eg crashing/blocking/forcing off track.
He broke the rules, the team admitted it and he got a punishment. He didn’t get away with it. You could argue that the punishment didn’t fit the crime but it wouldn’t be an argument you’d win as when you compare it with someone getting a 5s penalty (that they take during a pit stop) for hitting someone else what LH did hardly deserves more punishment than he got.
You know, I still disagree and don't think it is being obtuse.
The team ****ed up and as a result Lewis should have gone down the pit lane and lost time relative to everyone else. He should therefore have had a penalty (not a reprimand) for not doing this.
The good news is though, now a precedent has been set so that rule can be ignored anyway.
The good news is though, now a precedent has been set so that rule can be ignored anyway.
Except the rule wasn't ignored, see the text you quoted for details. HTH
At least McLaren should be able to build as good a car as Torro Rosso next year:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/44961301
Except TR are claiming they have a valid contract with Keys, so could be some extra negotiation between them and McLaren to sort it out.
Anyhow, RedBull's chance to shine this weekend? Max to throw it away in FP3 again, or will he wait until qualifying to bin it?
Wet quali was great and has set up an interesting start tomorrow.
I wonder what the outcome would have been had Vettel crashed out when he clipped Bottas - given his previous this (and last) season I think Ferrari would be looking very closely (if they are not already) at their options. Would love to see Riccardo in a Ferrari next year.
Rumors are that the new bosses aren't so keen on Leclerc and might prefer to keep KR. Wishful thinking, but there's still the slimmest of chances that Alonso or Riccardo have a chance at the seat.
The Force India situation seems "interesting" too - the management asking Perez to pull the trigger to take control away from Mallya, avoid a winding up order and effectively try to keep the team sellable (at a reasonable price). I hope they manage to survive as the last couple of teams that went into administration never came out. They weren't getting the same results though, so hope that swings it. Mr Stroll Snr seems to be supporting them with large chunks of cash, but that could mean even worse things for Williams if he shifts young Lance to the new Force India as part of the deal. Without his cash they'd go looking for aother pay driver who's funding exceeds their talent and that pretty much consigns them to the back of the frid. Martini are off next year too IIRC, no wonder Clare W is so keen on budget caps and prize money reforms post 2021.
Seems highly likely that Raikkonen will keep his seat again, and RIcciardo will re-sign for RedBull. Vandoorne's looking like he might "do a Palmer" this year too which could trigger a whole wave of changes in the midfield driver line ups, but I think the top 6 seats are pretty much fixed now.
Wishful thinking, but there’s still the slimmest of chances that Alonso or Riccardo have a chance at the seat.
Doubt that Ferrari would take Alonso on again, Riccardo yeah stands a chance, but who will he partner?
I can't believe that I'm 2nd in the stw fantasy league. How has that happened?
Summer break now, going to have to find something else to watch for a few weeks.
Doubt that Ferrari would take Alonso on again
Slim chance, for sure, but the management has changed and Vettel's ability to perform under pressure has got to be on their minds. Alonso sounds like a real prick to work with, but he ability to perform under pressure is astonishing. Business people don't mind working with total pricks if they get results.
So, mid season test at Hungary, and Williams and Force India showing 2019 front wing designs...
https://www.planetf1.com/news/revealed-new-2019-front-wing-breaks-cover/
Looks like Force India have looked at the new regs, and gone "what is the maximum loss we can expect if we interpret these literally/as intended", and come up with a super simple baseline spec wing. Whereas Williams appear to have a more complex shape, like they've said "what changes do we need to make to get a 208 wing compliant for 2019".
That Force India wing is almost like going back to 2009 when the wide/low front wing was introduced.
Detail shots of the FI wing:
And some of the williams wing on the next page..
Interesting piece from Joe Saward on the FI drama
https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00285
Whereas Williams appear to have a more complex shape, like they’ve said “what changes do we need to make to get a 208 wing compliant for 2019”.
If the regs I've seen posted are correct, I don't think that'll be a legal wing for 2019 (too many elements)
I was hoping it would be more like this. (Prettiest GP car ever.)
No - this is the prettiest F1 car ever
Nah this is
If we're playing that game you're all wrong!...
This was the prettiest Lotus 49
You know what, looking at those cars above I don't remember thinking "Gosh, I wish these cars were faster." Especially if it meant fewer overtakes.
End of thread. (as far as best looking car goes at least!)
End of thread. (as far as best looking car goes at least!)
bring it
[img] 
[/img]
Or...
That Tyrell was definitely designed with Scalextric in mind.
Is this going to run until Spa? It's gonna be a long summer break...
Boom - I win!...
🙂
You see - with a lot of these 70s and 80s cars there's a simple solution to front wing outwash - make the front wing no wider than the inside of the front wheels!
The new 2m wide one seems to defy logic - they remove all the fancy vortex generators, but then widen the wing and give scope for outwash again.
Actually speaking as a die-hard Lotus fan yes, the-muffin-man wins.
I am pretty sure Vettel will win the WDC this year as there is only so many times LH will get away with it despite his talent and team mate support.
Which annoys me as I prefer Hamilton as driver, although I find that Vettel's personality has become as annoying at LH's over the years !
as there is only so many times LH will get away with it
Get away with what?
Yep - get away with what?
He's had some luck this year - usually at Bottas's expense, who deserves to have won a few races this year - but he's also had bad luck in the past.
If Bottas had won a few he would be in contention for the title. All Mercedes are doing now is putting their backing on the driver most likely to win the championship. Whereas Raikkonen will never have the chance to beat Vettel - he's got No.2 firmly inked in his contract.
BTW - guess which cigarette brand I first tried as a teenager in the early 80s! 🙂
Marlboro?
Gold Leaf?
Camel?
Rothmans?
So while F1 peeps are on their holibobs - lets see some iconic F1 photographs - I'll start...
...and a pack of 10 JPS - nothing at all to do with a die cast model of a Lotus 72 I had as an 8 yr old! 🙂
Only smoked 3 though and gave the rest to a mate.
Personally I think Hamilton will win the WDC, Vettel & Ferrari always seem to implode when the pressure's on.
Niki Lauda has had a lung transplant
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/137804/lauda-recovering-from-lung-transplant-surgery
So it was more than a bit of flu then. Heal fast Niki.
Meanwhile DanRic is offically quitting RedBull at the end of the year, tipped to go to Renault. Gasly in at RedBull or is it too soon for him?
Blimey!
(And get well soon Niki!)
Best thing for Dani Ric - he risked becoming Max's wing man. Good luck to him.
Hopefully he'll be passing broken down Red Bull Hondas next season!
That is a surprise.
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11459194/daniel-ricciardo-to-leave-red-bull
Guess he wasn't as impressed with the Honda engine as Christian Horner and Helmut Marko claim to be. Sainz would be the obvious pick for the second Red Bull seat, unless there are any ex-World Champions coming off contract and desperate for a competitive drive.
Didn't see that happening, but Renault have had multiple past success after periods of being mediocre or inactive. Fingers crossed he'll be heading up a new successful period!
Now where does this leave Saintz? IIRC his Redbull contract could have been terminated if a RB seat was not available for 2019...
unless there are any ex-World Champions coming off contract and desperate for a competitive drive.
GP2 engine...GP2 engine
...unless there are any ex-World Champions coming off contract and desperate for a competitive drive.
Alonso doesn't fit Red Bulls image. They've knocked him back before.
Although I'm sure he'd relish the chance to work with Honda again! 🙂
There's also Raikkonen, of course, ex-champ coming off contract.
Not sure Sainz will get it - I don't think he's in favour at Red Bull anymore.
Gasly is the obvious one. With Torro Rosso having two new drivers - possibly Lando Norris being one as they've shown interest in him before.
Whatever - the driver market is wide open now.
Sainz to mclaren allegedly, not sure of Vandoorne
Vandoorne has proved to be very average - can't see teams fighting for him as he doesn't come with a bucket load of money either.
Alonso - Sainz for McLaren next year I think.
Ricciardo v Hulk will give an interesting benchmark too - Hulk's never had a properly top drawer team mate & is pretty even with Sainz this year (yes he's ahead in points but in quali & races where both have finished there's not much in it). Hulk clearly has a benefit from his experience with the team but I think most people would expect Ricciardo to dominate in performance terms - if not then it raises Hulk's stock (too late to be of any real benefit) and by assoication Sainz's. Though if Sainz is alongside Alonso that's more than enough of a benchmark for anyone.
Senior moment, ignore me
Apart from two world championships with Alonso!
And countless race wins as an engine supplier.
They have form and are in a rebuilding stage.
EDIT - ingoring a Friday PM senior moment 😀
Nice edit jimster! 🙂
Force India saved by Stroll
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/force-india-bid-stroll-consortium-administration/3155471/?nrt=54
So that means Lance is probably off from Williams taking a chunk of cash with him.
Great news for Force India - and as you say possibly not so good news for Williams.
No Martini sponsorship next year and now Stroll sticking his $$$s elsewhere.
So...who will get Alonso's seat?
Darn. I was just getting to like him.
Sainz, which is a shame as he’s no Alonso. Gasley to RB.
Given Alonso's record of decision making I'm gonna stick a fiver on mclaren to win every race next year...