We've literally just looked at a house in Norton, Sheffield. To be blunt it's knackered. But we'd have the.money to fix it.
Part of that would be to pop a pretty big extension on it, somewhere between 20-40 sq/m single storey.
But it's leasehold. There's 800 years left on the lease.
This is an unknown quantity to me. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently it's common in the are to have a leasehold, but does anyone have any experience of getting permission to do extensions etc? How do you do it? How long does it take? Is it expensive?
Anybody got any advice?
Thanks. 🙂
Can you negotiate to buy the freehold?
With the leasehold, you'd need the landlord's permission, but I'd be amazed if you didn't get it, especially if others around have had extensions.
Buying the freehold is the answer, and that's not hard (I don't think they can refuse to sell it these days)
We're in a Sheffield Leasehold house. When we bought it no one could track down who owned it / was the landlord so we're just ignoring the fact.
Can you negotiate to buy the freehold?
I don't know. I have a copy of the lease, there are 3 parties named on it. Obviously that's the first thing I'd try but if I can't extend it's a no-go, a deal breaker.
I know you have the right to buy the freehold after 2 years, but the house is a no-go as it is, and I can't wait that long.
Can they actually say no?
Most houses on the street are extended.
EDIT
sorry wrong forum.
Not specifically related but I just started reading about this leasehold and ground rent scandal in the Guardian last week. I have a freehold so not my problem but that one really boiled my pee.
The recent stories have been more about new builds.
My leasehold house has 892 years left on it and it costs £2.50 a year. The leasehold document looks like it belongs in a Harry Potter film. 🙂
My leasehold house has 892 years left on it and it costs £2.50 a year. The leasehold document looks like it belongs in a Harry Potter film.
Which is what the general expectation is. However post-Thatcher parasites, easy transfer of contracts and a ton of small print too small to write in pen and ink on vellum appear to have changed all that.
Annnnnd swiflty tearing things back on topic, does anyone have any more valid comments please?
Our house has a few hundred years to go on the lease, but the bottom of the garden is free hold and is ours, although the terms of it are that we are not allowed to keep pigs in it. However, I digress…
When we bought the house the searches found that the previous owners extended it but they couldn’t trace who the lease belonged to. To cover this they took out a small insurance policy to cover them should the lease holder make an appearance and demand a fee.
We’ve been in it for 8 years now. We’ve never heard anything from the lease holder regarding ground rent or the extension.
No idea who the land belongs too. Everything else round our way is owned by the Edgerton Family / Earl of Wilton, who own a good chunk of Manchester, but not our bit. The current Earl lives in Australia.
Interesting. I do have a basic copy of the lease and there's names on it. I expect we get more details if/when we buy it?
We've put an offer in anyway.
* Didn't read original post fully, this is mostly about buying the freehold *
It is possible to buy it out, however you have to ask if its worth it.
Leasehold is really common in Sheffield and I'd say that unless you have significantly high ground rent or covenances (e.g. you must use specific insurers or pay an admin fee to do improvements) its not worth it IMHO. Loads of houses in Norton have had loads of changes and I guess the majority are still leasehold so as a precedent has probably been set I wouldn't worry about it too much.
You can ask for it to be extended at any time (i think) but the 2 year rule means they are obliged to either extend or sell.
However, I've been through the process on a much shorter lease (84 years) where it becomes much harder to negotiate as the Freeholder knows they've got you over a barrel at 80 years and selling on is difficult. My Lease at the time had the following covenants =
- Ground rent of £7 per year
- I had to take out insurance through their broker or incur a £35 annual charge
- Any changes to the property had to be approved by them and incur an admin charge
The first step is to approach the freeholders directly asking them for a price to buy the Freehold. Fingers crossed they will come back and say its a few hundred pounds to a thousand. I think you can do this yourself, however it can also be done through a solicitor but not necessary. They may give you a price, in ours it was about £10k (on a £110k house). The next step is then to commission your own surveyor to come and value the freehold. They came back with a much lower value of about £2k. The next step is to serve them a notice (this is done through a solicitor) to say that you dispute their costs and that you want to take it to a tribunal. Normally after serving this notice they'll meet you halfway (or less) as there are certain fixed costs associated with going to court and if they lose they incur your expenses.
My Freeholders were Coppen Estates and they were ruthless and only assessed claims to purchase a freehold once a year, in September. My Solicitor was J Shaw of Nether Edge law who is very knowledgeable about these things but is grubby, rude and not the best communicator.
If they don't just give you a reasonable price upfront you'll incur solicitor's fee's of about £500 and £300 approx. for surveyor's fees.
Definitely ask to see a full copy of the lease before exchanging contracts. This is a mistake we made, however don't let my story put you off as ours was particularly tricky compared to others.
The reason you're buying the house is to build an extension. Find out if others that have the same lase have done this, but if its too restrictive I'd be inclined to look elsewhere.
"[i]I expect we get more details if/when we buy it?[/i]"
I'd want the details [b]BEFORE[/b] buying it....
Didn't read original post fully, this is mostly about buying the freehold
No it's not. I know all about that. 🙂
It's about getting permission to do major work if they won't sell the freehold straight away. Which is what it NEEDS BADLY.
I'd want the details BEFORE buying it....
Well yeah. You know what I mean. 🙂
So we put an offer in. Someone else offered asking price so we went a little bit over it.....
They're waiting until they've seen more people. It's like that in Sheffield, they like a bidding war. I won't be suckered into it though, I won't be hugely bothered if we loose it.
Greenhill sheffield. Recently asked to buy the lease and told they arent looking to sell at the moment!
We were going to get an extension built but didn't in the end, a next I'd be asking how much for permissions. We are changing the roof on the conservatory to one of those fake jobbies, just hoping they don't find out!
You're unlikely to get an extension unless the lease is about to run out. Otherwise, I'd avoid these properties if you enjoy DIY.
Pieface - I've seen J Shaw recommended elsewhere for Sheffield leasehold purchases. Would you recommend him despite what you said?
Shuhockey - I recall from an older thread we have the same landowner, and I've received that same response. We're just coming up to 2 years since we moved in, so expecting to start pressing them a little harder shortly.
When i bought my house the freeholder insisted that i took out my house insurance with Zurich (despite having to have the insurance in place prior to moving in and only finding out about there choice of insurers a month or two later). In their letter they advised that if i didn't they would fine me. That was like a red rag to a bull so i called them and told them i wanted to buy the freehold.... they had absolutely no objections to this and £550 later it was mine.
Even though the ground rent was something like £17 per year its worth every penny so i don't have to jump through hoops to satisfy them.
used to live in sheffield and bought out/combined freeholds / claimed half of front garden that apparently had been kept by the council for road widening when the houses were built in the thirties etc - think we paid the other parties cost all in was around £1200 - only problem seemed to be finding the leaseholder and getting their attention then subsequently we got claims from a third party that they had bought the leasehold and rent was owed bit of a pain as went away but then tried again a few years later
It's actually surprisingly common for houses in Britain to have very long leaseholds. They are often referred to as 'virtual freehold'. As has been mentioned above, find out about ground rent / any other obligations before you buy. The chances are that there will officially be a couple of pounds a year to pay, but no one will have any idea who actually owns the freehold anyway.
Greenhill sheffield. Recently asked to buy the lease and told they arent looking to sell at the moment!
After 2 years owning the leasehold you have a RIGHT to buy the freehold. They cannot stop you. If they sell it they MUST offer it to the leaseholder first. I know that much. 🙂
You're unlikely to get an extension unless the lease is about to run out
I'm not talking about extending the LEASE (it's over 700 years) I'm talking about extending the HOUSE.
Is it me or are some people a bit hard of undersanding here? 🙂 I've just reread my OP. It's fairly clear....
I assume the Vendor has been there for 2 years so ask them to ask to buy the freehold then make it a condition of sale? We did this as vendors and we probably played a bad hand but ended up in a good situation in the end.
@ Mowgli - I'd say that J Shaw probably specialises in this area and he know's alot of the landlords, however he isn't especially 21st century nor customer focused.
Have a chat with him on the phone, explain as much as you can but I expect that without the details of the lease he'll be able to offer any more advice than what has already been said on this thread. He doesn't speak very clearly which doesn't help. He communicates through snail mail and over-ellucidates in his correspondence.
If you do use him get everything written down up-front about what he's going to do and the timescales and any dependencies on the sequence of events (for both parties especially if this is a step within the sale) and ask for a fixed price or failing that an itemised quote. He's old school, doesn't wash his clothes and has a grubby office at the junction of Psalter Lane and Eccy Road South (if he's still there). He doesn't speak very clearly on the phone but at the end of the day I believe he prides himself on getting the job done, even if he's a bit of a git.
However - we had comissioned him to do 2 jobs - 1 was to sort out the freehold, the other was to do some conveyancing. There was a breakdown in comms between us an the purchasers about the sequence of events (they refused to begin conveyancing until the freehold was purchased) which delayed us by nearly 6 months - I believe that a good estate agent (if they exists) should have laid out all the conditions of the sale before accepting the offer. Jeffer's didn't exactly shower himself in glory throughout the rest of the process and was incredibly rude with us during the sale process.
The other company we looked at were Keeble Haw (Leesa Grubb) in Leeds who I'd have preferred to have used because our expectation was that they would be more professional.
Mowgli / SHuhockey, are you either of you currently in Greenhill ATM? if so anywhere near Westwick and go out on Wednesday nights?
I assume Mr Hockey works at SHU?
I am a leaseholder and the previous owners extended the property without the freeholder's consent. He cared but not enough to do anything about it. When we had the lease extended on purchase there was a clause written into it which said that the freeholder accepted no responsibility for the extension.
So if you do extend, the lease may need to be re-written to include the extension.
Pieface - thanks for the review. Good to know what to expect! I'm near to Greenhill yes, tho not currently getting much riding in regularly unfortunately. Hoping that'll change now the weather's looking better!
Pieface - Played hockey for SHU and that was a username I've used ever since!
Not me I'm afraid on a Wednesday night.
Leasehold- Lived there for 5 years so may try hard to get the freehold.
I'm not talking about extending the LEASE (it's over 700 years) I'm talking about extending the HOUSE.Is it me or are some people a bit hard of undersanding here? I've just reread my OP. It's fairly clear....
It is but the thread title is misleading and you've made a rookie mistake assuming anyone reads more than the title before jumping in with an opinion/advice :p
it may sound odd but I'd consider making the extension of the lease to 999 years a condition of the purchase (perhaps during the conveyancing process, claim the bank insists on it) - reason being that it forces the issue on how active the freeholder(s) are on it and potentially triggering the opportunity to purchase the freehold, basically make sure you deal with it before the sale goes through - reason i say this is i bought a flat with a relatively short lease (80 years ish) and the bank did insist on extending it and the process unearthed all sorts of other stuff that needed sorting (inc. weird stuff like 'access to my eaves by any of the other lessees' etc)...
Well update. I emailed them again a template email I found saying that they have to sell. They have sent me a questionnaire to fill in to decide on a price. They have also asked for £125 for the pleasure. This will be knocked off the price if we go ahead. Deciding what to do as just been on holiday and money tight!
Shuhockey - I had the same response. Advice from solicitor is to NOT pay the £125, but send them (or get solicitor to send them) a formal letter which essentially makes them give you the price without the £125 'fee'. Msg me if you want a few more details.