[Closed] Ex drug cheats going to the olympics.

didn't know he'd been found guilty of drug taking

grahamh - yep aware of that. Highly dubious all round but still not a guilty drugs cheat. Fwiw I would be less stressed from a sporting perspective about a none performance enhancing but still illegal drug.

Ex drug cheats have gone to the Olympics for years and will continue to do so, only now, so can British ones.
The Council For the Arbitration of sport who made the decision know what they are talking about and every sporting body abides by their decision.
End of as far as I'm concerned.

deepreddave - Member
Bloomin human rights being used again beyond its best and fundamental purposes.

Yeah! Bloomin human rights...had nothing to do with it.

"The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) will tomorrow announce their decision that [b]the BOA's bylaw does not comply with the World Anti-Doping Agency's (WADA) global code[/b], sources with knowledge of the case have confirmed to the Press Association."

[url] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/boa-lose-appeal-to-keep-drug-cheats-out-of-london-olympics-7688982.html [/url]

I have it on good authority that Rio would not have tested positive for a performance enhancing drug had he been tested that day.

I completed reading Millar's book last weekend.

I'd suggest that if you're anti Millar, but haven't read the book.
Then you would do worse than to spend sometime reading Racing through the dark.

It certainly wasn't / isn't black and white.

Millar held out against it for as long as he could.

The prospect of representing his country actually got him to clean up.
titles he won while using, have been withdrawn.
He has served his ban.

I believe that any performance he'd give today would be clean.

So, if hes got the talent and can take the pain.
Then he should, perhaps, be considered.

The past is the past and any Man's effort to make good, should not be dismissed.
In my opinon.

I'll support lifetime bans when drug testing becomes infallible. And that means no one who is cheating can evade detection and that no one who is clean can test positive.

Oh and someone needs to explain to me how athletes can be corrupted but testers and lab staff cannot.

Lifer - I feel the laws are based on the intent to avoid 'unfair discrimination' which is based in part at least on the liberal elements of the HRA.

😐

cynical
Ban counts for nothing? Erm...he got a ban...served it...that was nothing?

Counts for nothing coz they let him and the others back in, life ban or no ban would have been better, two years of "training" is hardly fitting

two years of [s]"training"[/s] not pulling a salary on top of the fine is hardly fitting

La UCI confirmó la sanción de dos años de suspensión (hasta el 2 de agosto de 2011) decidida por la RFEC y añadió una sanción económica de 35.000 euros.3

I like to think we live in a world were people are afforded second chances. Lets be honest, probably the biggest punishment is that they have been branded cheats. That won't go away. They should be subject to more frequent testing. But as I understand it all medal winners are tested automatically.

Unlike Dwain Chambers a drugs cheat who claimed he was innocent ...... then eventually disappears quietly into a corner to serve his ban

errr no he didn't

and don't forget the "confessional" book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiyVBhc3ipc&feature=related

all very like a certain cyclist.......

if you search you will find the interview where he explains his techniques for dodging tests, the same techniques that were used by a female athlete, who got a technical ban, who then appealed whilst threatening to change nationality, who then competed and won gold.

But as I understand it all medal winners are tested automatically

How many tests did DC and DM not test positive in?

The key is out-of-competition testing including blood tests and a biological passport system. The issue is that it is too expensive and doesn't go down well with the athletes

I have it on good authority that Rio would not have tested positive for a performance enhancing drug had he been tested that day.

recreational then?. Drugs are a funny thing in sport Matt Stevans got two years for recreational drugs and other players get ten weeks for sticking fingers in other eyess or breaking arms after the whistle.

I thought Millar was more of a time triallist ? Is there a TT in the Olynpics or just the road race ??

There is a time trial, Millar might get top 10 if he rode well. He is wanted for his racing brain and power to get Cav to the last 350m. He'll be the road captain and will organise the riders in the absence of team radios

So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?

Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?

So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?

So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?

Like drunk driving init.

Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?

Wetherspoons.

[i]So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?

Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?
[/i]

Hora. Are you being serious ?.
I ask because on the face of that post.
You appear to know very little about Millar's story.

Meanwhile in the velodrome, Bauge may beat Hoy in the final. Would anyone want to see someone who has already been stripped of a title for dodging tests win a gold this summer?
I think not.

Contador lost nearly €2,5 million.

You could view it that BEFORE he was caught he was actively taking money off of clean competitors.

You could indeed...

[i]You could view it that BEFORE he was caught he was actively taking money off of clean competitors. [/i]

Hence the fine.

Hey, Hora.
I've decided that we are not going to remove the three points you have on your drivers license, for speeding.
They can stay there and valid for enternity.
I know you didn't want to speed.
While doing so, you did put the lives at others at risk.
So thats it.
Points aren't for 3 years they're for life.

So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?

No drug is that powerful unless you sweat a compound that kills others – even then it would need to be a circuit so you can pick them off as they lap you 😛

Read his book then judge him

I've read Millar's book and although I have sympathy for him and can't say I would have behaved differently with 100% honesty, it still doesn't excuse it. His interviews are a mix of "it was my fault, there's nothing I can say to explain it" and "here's why I did it, it wasn't my fault". It shows how even to himself, he's still not able to separate how much was him and how much was the sport.

I do very much admire him not trying to get involved in overturning the BOC lifetime ban. He does very much come across as saying "I had my chance to be clean, I leave it to the rest of you to decide what to do with that"

I have a clean driving licence.

I've no idea what your point is on Millar but no one forced him to cheat. The choice was totally his.

no one forced him to cheat. The choice was totally his

Thinking like that is why sport struggles to become drug free.

Shouldn't the onus be on competing clean rather than blaming pressure and drop in performance as the reason why you decided to seek an unfair advantage?

Hoy wins without drugs. He wins because hes better, trains, focuses etc etc. I imagine when his talent window starts to dip he'd train harder or hang up his shoes...

Hoy wins without drugs.

[i]I've no idea what your point is on Millar but no one forced him to cheat[/i]

Hora.
You understand my driving licence analogy.
Of course I have no idea whether you personally have points on your licence.
🙄

And your comment ^^^ now indicates to me that you do not know his story.
Yet you are judging him.
Thats very shakey ground.

His team broke him, they raced him until he was a mess.
I doubt you'd ever be able to prove it, but I think the team had a hidden agenda to get him on EPO.

Either way, he says he regrets it all.
And has tried to give back, what a Ex-doper can.

Should he be selected, I have no doubt he will feel very honoured and give all he can to support the team.
He may never be able to remove the stain, but at least he has the balls to try, against the opinion of types like yourself, to do something [i]right[/i]

Goodness Hora.
Have you never benefited from someone giving you a second chance ?.
😉

[i]Shouldn't the onus be on competing clean rather than blaming pressure and drop in performance as the reason why you decided to seek an unfair advantage[/i]

Hora.
This may be familiar ground to you, but you are approaching Cocksville at an alarming speed.

So you have read the book then 🙄

His speeding suggests that all offences have a penalty period and dont last indefinitely...speeding is a good example should you loose your licence for ever for it? Or can you learn from the errors of your ways and reform?

I am not a fan of a blanket rule either way as it all depends on how /why the person cheated , their reaction afterwards etc
Contador is a good example - there is some good evidence out there that his cheating showed signs of systematic doping [ his biological passport] and attempts to mask. He maintained innocence and now accepts it was a tainted supplement despite saying there was no chance of this pre the decision. I would treat people like this [ cheats who deny] far worse than Millar - others are available and I dont want to turn this into a Contrador debate simply highlighting the difference between a reformed and apologetic competitor and one who is not.
The other problem with cycling is that it was endemic within the sport [ probably still is ]and the only think that singles Millar out from many of his peers is that he was caught. if you think Millar will be the only drug cheating cyclist then that is very naive. I would have more faith in Millar being clean that in pretty much any other athlete tbh.

Err right. A pro-cheat throwing insults. Good to see the cheats attract your type 😆

does millar even want to ride? he made some comments a while back about giving the olympics a miss because of exactly the kind of thoughts being displayed here...

Stock and modified classes

Hora.

Just go get your ducks lined up in a row, before climbing aboard your high and mighty horse.

With that thinking should all the clean athletes keep quiet incase they too look high and mighty?

[i]With that thinking should all the clean athletes keep quiet incase they too look high and mighty? [/i]

Eh ?.

My advise to you.
Is to go read his book.
Then come back here and tell me how clear cut it is, how black and white it is.
I invite you to educate yourself so at the very least.
You do not embarass yourself as you are currently doing.

You are pronouncing judgment on a Pro cyclist who never set out to Dope.
Yet you know nothing of how it came to be.

Can you see how your opinion is therefore invalid and frankly makes you look silly ?.

EDIT:
I'm not excusing what Millar did.
I believe he regrets it and lives with that everyday.
I'd be the last person to deny someone like Millar, a chance of redemption, at some level.

You are pronouncing judgment on a Pro cyclist who never set out to Dope.

Do you think ANY sportsman sets out on their career willing to dope? No.

The tipping point is due to stress/pressure for results/dip in form/injury/not getting selected etc etc.

Quit your yapping. You can't railroad someone into your opinion.

Quit your yapping. You can't railroad someone into your opinion.

Yes Junkyard, you are Solo are right. I was wrong. I will always agree with bighitters in the future, I promise 🙄

Tricky issue this one. It would be nice to think that the Olympics represented the pinnacle of sporting endeavor, that it was drugs free event and that individual olympic associations were given the liberty to adopt the ultimate sanction (but not the other way around). Equally, this is probably naive (especially the first bits) and to take arguments to their logical conclusion (just for you JY!), the logic of criminals returning to "normal" life after a period of punishment is a hard to argue against.

As a parent though, I would tend to veer towards the life time ban simply for the example that this sends. We have already made the choice for one of our sons, not to pursue a sporting career partly due the widespread misuse of PEDS in that sport. Even the coaches demonstrated remarkable physical transformations despite this sport's (hint) "whiter than white" image. 🙁

I wonder if there is ever a middle ground here? Well stupid question as this is where we are today. But I can see the arguments for life time bans in all pro sport and esp the Olympics and also a more libertarian (and less naive?) view that would advocate a free-for-all which leaves the individuals to take their own decisions re PEDS and to live with the inevitable consequences OF THEIR DECISIONS. The trouble with the latter is that at a young age, many people need protecting from these temptations. So the answer is......?

As a parent - life time bans
As an individual - leave to individual responsibility

Either way, watching DC is a Team GB vest will not be comfortable. Millar, hmmm?

Hora you are living proof that ignorance is no bar to an opinion which i rather thought was the definition off a BH.

THM whilst I agree would also rather be shot than start a sentence with the words " as a parent" 😉