[Closed] Everyone been out to vote then?

Some Mash just to lighten the mood:

[url=

opponents face Daily Mail dilemma: MILLIONS of decent, honest Britons today face the troubling prospect of being on the same side of an argument as the Daily Mail.[/url] 😀

just voted, and doesn't look like a large turnout at this moment in time.

The two systems do differ but I disagree that it is a fundamental difference: it is entirely incidental and immaterial

Certain arguments seem to be based on the premise that Tory party members are wholly rational and consistent in their decision-making.

I'm not saying the public is. I'm saying the difference between the systems only serves to modify the extent to which the process is influenced by irrationality. If you can make decisions in a consistent manner the pattern of voting is the same in each case.

..a very recent PM would never have been PM had they used AV rather than the system they do? Conceivably none of the PMs since him might have been PM either, with a whole succession of different people in charge.

I'm sold!

"[i]Not a fundamental difference that a very recent PM would never have been PM had they used AV rather than the system they do? Conceivably none of the PMs since him might have been PM either, with a whole succession of different people in charge. That's what I call incidental and immaterial.[/i]"

Is that speculation, or demonstrable with a published set of voting counts? (Not that even that would demonstrate it, since it would include the irrational swings and there'd be no control test to represent the AV outcome.)

For what its worth Hazel Blears thinks we should all vote no. Imagine agreeing with Hazel Blears

I postal voted and sent it off last week, but by teatime on Tuesday only 35,000 of the 61,000 postal ballots issued in Edinburgh had been received. I'm hoping mine was received - are people not bothered, or is it down to delays with the numerous bank/public holidays, or people leaving it too late.

Interestingly the only campaigners I have seen on the streets are the greens - who are very hopeful of serious representation- quite conceivably enough seats that an unholy alliance of the SNP and Greens could run Scotland without anyone else.

I am going to wait and see how all the politicians behave today, then make a decision at 9pm before I go up the road and post mine. That'll keep them on their toes.

quite conceivably enough seats that an unholy alliance of the SNP and Greens could run Scotland without anyone else.

[makes mental note]Must vote Labour[/makes mental note]

Exercised my democratic duty first thing. The referendum is the only vote where mine has counted. I also exercised a form of negative AV by using only one of the two votes for the local councilors.

I vote for reform of the voting mechanics - I turned up at the polling station for my previous address (missed the deadline for change of address) without polling card (lost in the move) gave name and voted with no request for ID or date of birth. I think they were just glad to see a voter!

My prediction for scotland is SNP to gain a few seats but to be just short of a majority - around 52
Labour to loose a few - around 42
Torys are down to their rump vote =- they will get around the same 17
Greens to gain significantly - be disappointed with less than 6 and could get over ten
Lib dems to almost disappear. down from 16 to 6 or less.
Couple of independents - Margo should get in again.

Teh left vote is being badly split so no representation I think. Why do the left fragment so badly?

My prediction for scotland is SNP to gain a few seats but to be just short of a majority - around 52

Nooooooo !! - an overall majority please! 😀

So all the people that don't bother to vote today (the vast majority I would say), is it going to be taken that they are happy with the system we have and counted as a no vote?

If so that doesn't seem fair, as they don't do that in the general elections, they just add up the votes and the one with the most wins, don't they?

Well, I'm working at a Poll station and we're not overly busy... hey, ho... The public are speaking.

So all the people that don't bother to vote today (the vast majority I would say), is it going to be taken that they are happy with the system we have and counted as a no vote?

I don't think that there is a minimum turnout requirement for the referendum so only the votes cast will count. Quite right too if you ask me. If we don't have a minimum turnout for General Elections, I don't see why we should have one for this.

I haven't voted on AV yet.

I'd decided to vote 'no', but am now confused as I note that most left of centre parties support it. I thought that it would give people like UKIP more chance of getting some representation (heaven forbid).

Can anyone explain to me the advantages for those on the left (such as myself)?

Your collective wisdom is much appreciated!

Some lucky people get to vote twice round here [url]

So if say, only 5000 people voted, 3000 voted Yes to AV, 2000 voted No, would they change the system to AV, or would they say the majority didn't vote so are happy with FPTP, so we will keep the current system?

....imagine if there is only a 35% turnout but 55% of them vote 'yes'.

Will the 'no' campaign disappear in a puff of logic?

[edit- ooooooh spooky ^^^ 😕 ]

rig - Member

I haven't voted on AV yet.

I'd decided to vote 'no', but am now confused as I note that most left of centre parties support it. I thought that it would give people like UKIP more chance of getting some representation (heaven forbid).

Can anyone explain to me the advantages for those on the left (such as myself)?

most people in this country vote for something/someone left of centre - but the vote gets split between labour/liberal.

the minority of people who vote 'right of centre' - have only one mainstream choice; conservative.

so the tories even win seats where the majority are voting for something 'leftish'.

AV would reduce the political power of the right - cos the winner would be the candidate with the broadest appeal - ie, leftish.

AV would be a disaster for the conservatives, and see loads of labour / liberal coalitons.

ukip are beginning to split 'rightish' voters away from the tories, which is why the tories REALLY hate ukip.

So if say, only 5000 people voted, 3000 voted Yes to AV, 2000 voted No, would they change the system to AV, or would they say the majority didn't vote so are happy with FPTP, so we will keep the current system?

There's no minimum turnout so in that instance the change would be implemented. It would be wrong to assume that people who didn't vote prefer FPTP, it would be more appropriate to say that they have no preference.

Here is an intersting one (for political geeks maybe)

I bet Scotland votes for AV - as the scots are now used to some form of PR but I bet across the UK its rejected by a large margin

yes to AV - cos it would be catastrophic to the tories.

+1

The others couldn't really care less I live somewhere that if you put a blue badge on a donkey it would get elected. We have a MP with less than 50% of those who could be bothered to vote.

"[i]would they say the majority didn't vote so are happy with FPTP, so we will keep the current system?[/i]"

There's a box on the paper to say that you're happy with FPTP.

Abstaining says "I don't care how it turns out, I'll leave it up to people who do care."

If even only one person votes then we should follow that vote, since everyone else clearly doesn't care. One person is better off in terms of their wishes being acted upon and everyone else is equally well off. That's a net gain.

I will this evening. I promise.

So all the people that don't bother to vote today (the vast majority I would say), is it going to be taken that they are happy with the system we have and counted as a no vote?

By the Tories, yes.

By everyone else, no.

rig,

Other thread [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/av-referendum ]AV referendum[/url] rehashes some of the arguments either way.

re: Internet voting, search for the hassle just having electronic voting machines , specifically designed for the task, has caused in recent American polling.

In this instance, I'm happy to stick with paper and crayon.

Can anyone explain to me the advantages for those on the left (such as myself)?

I can't do that easily, this might

Ok, thanks, that's good then.

I have had 2 different leaflets through the door advocating saying No to AV, with pretty poor reasons why, but nothing showing support.

I'd decided to vote 'no', but am now confused as I note that most left of centre parties support it. I thought that it would give people like UKIP more chance of getting some representation (heaven forbid).

Doh! The Yes campaign really didn't do a good job of explaining it did they!

ahwiles

AV would reduce the political power of the right - cos the winner would be the candidate with the broadest appeal - ie, leftish.

AV would be a disaster for the conservatives, and see loads of labour / liberal coalitons.

Give that person a job...

Am so annoyed that it looks like "No" will win...

if this vote had been held right after the expenses scandal turnout wouldve been high and im certain it would have been an overwhelming yes

as its been a year or so all those high-minded ideals about reform and 'fixing' the system seem to have been forgotten

infact the house of lords has got bigger, fptp looks to be here for ever, and rupert murdoch still has our government by the balls

most people in this country vote for something/someone left of centre - but the vote gets split between labour/liberal.

the minority of people who vote 'right of centre' - have only one mainstream choice; conservative.

I would agree with that in general, but almost in opposite terms, replace left with right and conservative with labour.

(Not trolling)

I would agree with that in general, but almost in opposite terms, replace left with right and conservative with labour.

2010 share of vote:

Conservative 36.48%
Labour 28.99%
Lib Dem 23.03%

You may, as they say, do the math 😉

Thank you for the explanations folks.

The 'yes' campaign didn't actually do a good job on me - I've been abroad & have entirely missed both campaigns.

I used to think that the Liberals were on the left - I'm not so sure anymore 🙁

Anyway, time to go & vote, & then to get the bike out 😀 , looks as if it might rain ... 😥

2010 share of vote:

Conservative 36.48%
Labour 28.99%
Lib Dem 23.03%

You may, as they say, do the math

I'm not sure who this is meant to support, me or awhiles and thebunk

Just placed my three votes (MSP, regional & AV)

Voted yes to the AV as I find the current system an abhorrent joke where on most occasions my vote is worthless.

I reckon TJ voted SNP, Green & Yes.

Also agree with TJ that in Scotland the AV vote will be yes as we are used to that system now.

from those numbers, 52% voting for something 'leftish'.

the tories managed 36.5% of the vote, surely in some part on the back of an 'i hate Gordon' sentiment.

I would agree that the Yes campaign has been poor, though not as bad as the sickeningly cynical, deceptive and manipulative No campaign. The No campaign has been much better funded though, unsurprisingly.

Here's a reasonable attempt at explaining why -

Turnout has been pitiful in my area apparently.

the yes campaign has categorically failed to explain how the system works (as have any media outlets i have seen) this has left a situation where the yes campaign looks like it is pandering to the populist vote (make them work harder etc) but ignoring the technicalities

and the no campagn has fought to make AV look complicated. I have yet to have an actual discussion with anyone who understands the process of AV (and i don't believe it is that complicated)

I voted yes, but predict a no.

Voted yes as the no campaign is so patronising and just rubbish from what I can tell..

I'm not sure who this is meant to support, me or awhiles and thebunk

If it helps Charlie, I often vote Lib Dem (being leftish) but would have to be dragged screaming to ever vote Conservative - hence, I reflect awhile's analysis.

OTOH if we had AV and a Green candidate (or even an independent with the right sort of local policies) then I'd vote for them with my first preference, whereas now I woudl have to vote LibDem in my constituency just to try to keep the Tories out.

now I woudl have to vote LibDem in my constituency just to try to keep the Tories out.