going later because the polling station is IN THE PUB
vote beer mmmmmm!
no because you are wrong, it was Ed who was elected due to second/ third/ fourth preferencesthe tory system is a series of FPTP ballots with an ever diminishing number of candidates. hence the electorate can review who to vote for at each stage
HTH
Not really. Looks like AV with people just putting their crosses on the paper each time.
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and has the work 'duck' written in large flashing lights above it.
Polling station was empty bar 2 people working (is that the right word) in there, normally vote in the evening but got today off so thought would beat the queues, last time i had to wait over an hour to put and x in a box.
Internet voting or via txt would be a great option next time round.
Did I mention any of that shit (sorry Bez)?
You asked me to run through the arguments I put to the Jehovas Witnesses.
TandemJeremy - MemberVote pink wafer!!!!!
Always knew you were that sort of deviant. 😉
Not really. [b]Looks[/b] like AV with people just putting their crosses on the paper each time.
www.specsavers.co.uk
HTH
A Polling Stration in the pub. What an inspired idea
But if all the polling stations were in pubs, would you get possible objections from Muslim voters?
And where do Jehovah's witnesses sit on the whole pub thing?
"[i]no because you are wrong, it was Ed who was elected due to second/ third/ fourth preferences the tory system is a series of FPTP ballots with an ever diminishing number of candidates. hence the electorate can review who to vote for at each stage[/i]"
Heh. That is [i]precisely[/i] how AV works. It's just that you specify all your preferences up-front rather than on an 'as needs be' basis (which is thoroughly impractical as a national ballot).
You fill in your favourite. If your favourite goes out, you can opt to vote for one of the remaining contenders or you can walk. And so on. AV is precisely the system you describe, it just saves on time and paper.
Because those options are readily accessible to more people in the country than the Internet is. Plus the "if it ain't broke" argument.
True, but over 30 million people in the UK access the internet every day and around 75% of households have internet access. So it's not exactly a minority interest.
I'm not saying it should replace polling stations (yet), but it would be a useful addition!
I mean, I'm with you, Internet voting would be nice - but it's not like you've got to trek 20 miles barefoot and hand-carve your vote in a tablet of granite.
True, but there are already two people on this thread who haven't been able to vote for whatever reason, who probably could if we had internet voting system set up.
Surely some boffin can devise a way for these shiny computery things to transmit information to each other and allow us to communicate our votes through some form of inter-connected network, or "internet"?
Designing a system to do this would be pretty easy. Designing a [i]secret and secure[/i] system that isn't open to abuse to do this would be considerably more difficult. The simple pencil & paper system has a lot going for it. Alternatively you could register for a postal vote.
Yeah, I agree. Internet voting would, in principle, be A Good Thing.
But if all the polling stations were in pubs, would you get possible objections from Muslim voters?
Our polling station is church hall at local C of E.
Should the same question be asked?
Heh. That is precisely how AV works. It's just that you specify all your preferences up-front rather than on an 'as needs be' basis (which is thoroughly impractical as a national ballot).You fill in your favourite. If your favourite goes out, you can opt to vote for one of the remaining contenders or you can walk. And so on. AV is precisely the system you describe, it just saves on time and paper
it's not how the tory system works, many people switch allegience in the tory leadership campaigns which is what causes all the hoopla. In the tory system your first (only) preference can change at each ballot, in AV it doesn't unless your candidate drops out in a round. A simple but fundamental difference.
of course you can continue to oversimplify if you want if it makes you happy to be right 😉
Our polling station is church hall at local C of E.
Should the same question be asked?
No.
It's no wonder we have so many problems with race relations in this country.
What do you suppose the "offence" would be?
Hmmmmmmmmmm. This raises some interesting questions. Would an alcoholic feel comfortable if the polling station was in a mosque. Indeed... would Allah mind if the alcoholic felt comfortable in the mosque?
Hmmmmmmmm... indeed.
I've already voted [u][b]NO[/b][/u].
It's no wonder we have so many problems with race relations in this country.
I was responding to a "joke" with a "joke"
Sorry if you were offended 🙄
Not really. Looks like AV with people just putting their crosses on the paper each time.
http://www.specsavers.co.ukHTH
Erm:
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?&k=Duck[/img]
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Designing a secret and secure system that isn't open to abuse to do this would be considerably more difficult. The simple pencil & paper system has a lot going for it.
Good point. Someone would need to know my address AND date of birth to fake my paper vote. Inconceivable.
Alternatively you could register for a postal vote.
I did and I used it - but it does have distinct disadvantage that you have to send it off before the public debates have finished.
"[i]many people switch allegience in the tory leadership campaigns which is what causes all the hoopla. In the tory system your first (only) preference can change at each ballot, in AV it doesn't unless your candidate drops out in a round.[/i]"
Yes. This is true. But internal party wrangling is, I rather suspect, a messy and polluted game. The two systems do differ but I disagree that it is a fundamental difference: it is entirely incidental and immaterial.
If, as should occur in a general election, the parties and candidates all set out their cases up front, then the relative merits are set. The only reason for anyone to change their preference after any given round is if the policies materially change.
If you're proposing policy changes between voting rounds then yes, there is a difference. But if there is no policy change then the benefit analysis will pan out identically each time and there is no need to build in a mechanism for people to change their mind.
Bez - Member"no because you are wrong, it was Ed who was elected due to second/ third/ fourth preferences the tory system is a series of FPTP ballots with an ever diminishing number of candidates. hence the electorate can review who to vote for at each stage"
Heh. That is precisely how AV works. It's just that you specify all your preferences up-front rather than on an 'as needs be' basis (which is thoroughly impractical as a national ballot).
You fill in your favourite. If your favourite goes out, you can opt to vote for one of the remaining contenders or you can walk. And so on. AV is precisely the system you describe, it just saves on time and paper.
dont think this is correct- only the second choice [i]of those who voted for the least popular candidate[/i] gets counted, not eveybody's second choice- a fundamental difference.
would Allah mind if the alcoholic felt comfortable in the mosque?
Allah, could not, would not mind or not mind. You cannot attribute human characteristics to Allah
Not yet. Will be voting SNP, SNP and YES when I do go though.
You cannot attribute human characteristics to [s]Allah[/s] a non-existent fairy
You are right there as well, Woppit. Mark this day in your diaries!
A sort of AV system then 🙂
I did and I used it - but it does have distinct disadvantage that you have to send it off before the public debates have finished.
Not true. You can take it along to the polling station on the day.
Calling Allah a fairy? You'll be drawing cartoons next 😉
Boom, boom, shake shake the etc... 🙂
The simple pencil & paper system has a lot going for it.
At the same time I'm not convinced that it is a secure system, there's no ID check and no requirement to take your poll card with you.
I know during the last general election some people who were EU nationals got a vote because they'd not declared their nationality on the electoral register. It was only when I was discussing how the OH didn't get a vote that they realised they shouldn't have either!
Not true. You can take it along to the polling station on the day.
Brilliant - yes true, I could register for a postal vote and then effectively avoid the whole point of it by traipsing to polling station anyway!
Alternatively why can't the "postal vote" just give me a one-time password so I can log into a website with my voter number and vote there?
Voted yes to AV.
The party i would usually vote for say that if they will get in they would save £25m by scrapping a new velodrome here in Derby. Difficult decision to make!
Calling Allah a fairy?
I seriously doubt that even Woppit would do this.
"dont think this is correct- only the second choice of those who voted for the least popular candidate gets counted, not eveybody's second choice- a fundamental difference."
No. Everyone else's first choice is still in, so that is who they will vote for in either system. They are the same.
The point is that the tory leadership system isn't AV (there is a term for it but it escapes me) and isn't being propoosed for the General Election.
Everyone else's first choice is still in, so that is who they will vote for in either system
which as pointed out before doesn't happen in tory leadership elections
HTH
Someone would need to know my address AND date of birth to fake my paper vote. Inconceivable.
Well if you want to commit election fraud by altering individual votes then you aren't going to have that much of an effect on the outcome. The potential to effect the outcome with a computer based system is much much larger.
The pencil & paper isn't perfect, I wasn't trying to say that it is, but adding technology won't necessarily improve on it.
Brilliant - yes true, I could register for a postal vote and then effectively avoid the whole point of it by traipsing to polling station anyway!
What do you want - the moon on a stick?!
Personally I like the fact that there is a big pile of bits of paper with crosses on, that can be inspected and recounted if necessary.
As things stand you can send off your postal vote as soon as you make up your mind. But if you think that things will be close and that your vote will be vital, but you still can't make up your mind (for some bizarre reason) until the very last minute, then you have the option to change your plans for the day and make sure you can still vote.
The potential to effect the outcome with a computer based system is much much larger.
But the difficulty is much greater as is the chance of it being detected and the perpetrators being caught.
What do you want - the moon on a stick?!
No - I want them to send me a password instead of a form.
I am thinking about it vaguely, but probably won't bother to vote.
yes, and 'yes'.
TJ guess: yes to AV - cos it would be catastrophic to the tories.
my prediction: no change.
"which as pointed out before doesn't happen in tory leadership elections"
If people reassess their preferences between rounds then either:
1. The proposition of each candidate has changed
2. They are being pressured to change their vote, or
3. They are changing their mind whimsically and without reason
The first will not happen in a public election, the second should be prevented from happening, and with the third you will get a randomized result if you take a sample at any given time so it is immaterial when you gather the ranked preferences.
Is preferential system the term you're looking for big_n_daft?
I appreciate the differences, but it's still a lot closer to AV, which the Tories are campaigning against, than it is to FPTP, which they are campaigning for.
Their system gives people more than one vote, which is one of their 5 key reasons to vote No to AV.
(And I appreciate that everyone, physically, gets to vote more than once, but in effect it's only likely to be the ones who's first choice gets eliminated that then make a second choice - not many are likely to change their mind/loyalty once it's underway).
