Doesn't the little woman get a say?
Madame always has the last word (so my current car is not a Citroën C6). Our current car is the one she spotted at the dealers, went and sat in, and the spent the next nine months pointing out whenever we saw one. I eventually got the message so we test drove one, she loved it and we ordered one.
Would you wear a potato sack to a job interview?
picking the kids up from school ? a job interview
But I don't wear my car to an interview...
I do actually understand why salespeople often feel the need for a decent car - unfortunately for many of the people they're selling to, they'll be judged negatively if they don't which can impact on their work performance - for me, that's a different thing.
5 year old safety features (or lack of), driver comfort (of lack of), emissions control (or lack....
has safety really come on that far? still got airbags and abs back then
have car seats got more comfy? aircon can be recharged
emissions- 15 years of exhuast vs the environmental footprint of a tonne of metal and plastic- im not sure which is more
indeed, my 21 year old wagon actually has more comfy seats than my newer (13 years old) one, and can't say the brand new pool cars at work are any better really.
and there's plenty of new cars that have worse emissions than some older ones, and that's before you include the environmental footprint of production and destruction.
Some/many people just can't get their heads around that the car they drive somehow reflects on them.
Yeah those SUV drivers really seem not to realise how many people just think they're a little pathetic.
Would you wear a potato sack to a job interview?
Ha ha!
Some/many people just can't get their heads around that the car they drive somehow reflects on them.
doesn't it just say 'look at me, I place value on an outward display of pseudo wealth?' 😉
doesn't it just say 'look at me, I place value on an outward display of pseudo wealth?'
Indeed, I have the exact same oppinion of every spotless 4x4 I see, and as this thread demopnstrates I'm not alone. But as these new car buyers must be in proportion with the old car buyers it's safe to assume that enough people in the world feel differently about it.
Adding up my spending on cycling/bikes it's probably more than most of these monthly PCP plans being touted! So who am I to judge someone spending that oney on something arguably more justifiable than push bikes!
I drop Jnr FD off at private school in the morning. The car park is full of Range Rover Evoques, Range Rovers, Audi 4 x4 etc. Pretty much all I am sure on lease. IMO you would be stupid to buy when you can lease. Helps with cash flow too.
Then there are a few of us that turn up in 'normal cars' ie me in a Toyota Aygo, others in battered 20 yr old cars.
I have tried to work out if its a status thing or not, and currently I am undecided. It does go through phases, and it would appear you have to have the right 4x4, but then that extends to carrying the right hand bag (if your female), and wearing the latest clothes etc etc. The whole dropping the kids off at school is a fashion statement / excercise.
I dont think its an exercise in 'I have more money than you snobbery', as it is quite clear they are loaded and can afford what ever they like (so why shouldnt they) more the fact that they dont work, and therefore have no goals/ambition/any thing to occupy them, so to make life interesting they get the latest fashion statements.
If you dont like cars that fair enough, buy a heap of sh!t I like cars, and buy ones that I can afford, as my wife and I have worked harder over the last few years we can now afford nicer cars (although I have to say its questionable these days what more you get from the likes of BM and Merc that you cant get in a Ford). As I said the next car I am looking at will hopefully be a 2nd hand Porsche. Nothing to do with status etc, just because its about the best 'affordable' sports car out there and I want one 🙂
It's got to be company cars. Who'd spend that kind of money?? I know I certainly wouldn't.
I like the attitude of a guy that I work with a lot - met with him yesterday afternoon. He drives day to day in a 57 plate Mondeo estate (not even top spec I think). Then when he wants a nice drive he gets out his Ferrari FF (paid for in cash). There is a man not interested in status but driving.
I think if you are a real car lover you get just as much, if not more, enjoyment from old and perhaps relatively cheap cars as from new ones. I count myself as a car lover, I enjoy cleaning and tinkering with them just as much as driving them and can get pleasure from driving even the most basic cars.
It's very rare for me ever to have owned anything newer than 10yrs old and the one time I did get a brand new company car (A3 TDI) I ended up giving it back after 6 months and taking the cash instead, as it bored me to tears. My wife finds it a little odd that I actually quite like cars to go wrong occasionally as I can have the fun of fixing them.
If I could justify spending a large sum ( Say £15k plus) on a car then it would definitely be a classic. A) It's more likely to keep it's value or even appreciate and B) I can't say I'm ever really impressed by someone driving a new flash car as all it says is 'I have disposable income/ a company car allowance' rather than 'I have great taste and really understand and appreciate cars.'
I have tried to work out if its a status thing or not
Been there - it's the family in the 25 year old Mercedes 300E estate that have the real status and wealth. There is always one in every private school car park. 🙂
New money will arrive in new cars - normally 4x4s. Middle class professionals in middle cars that show the sacrifice they are making for their kids education. Old money in old cars as they don't see the need to update the one they bought as there is nothing wrong with it.
TiRed - Member
I have tried to work out if its a status thing or not
Been there - it's the family in the 25 year old Mercedes 300E estate that have the real status and wealth. There is always one in every private school car park.New money will arrive in new cars - normally 4x4s. Middle class professionals in middle cars that show the sacrifice they are making for their kids education. Old money in old cars as they don't see the need to update the one they bought as there is nothing wrong with it.
Yep, exactly this.
Well a lottery win would make me buy a nice car but, having driven loads of cars over the years along with vans through different jobs, they all do the same thing ie A to B
I've got a 2 year old Fiesta on lease for work, all servicing, tyres paid for, back up of another car if this goes wrong big time 30k per year mileage allowance, £276 per month.
For me that back up is essential so I wouldn't buy a car as the lease is cheaper but, if I didn't have the Driving School, I'd just have a cheap banger.
Spend more on bikes these days, my bike is worth double the amount of my old banger that I use for the bikes and dogs.
Legoman - Member
I do about 25k miles a year, mostly business. Based on your logic I should be doing it in a 15 year old Mondeo with it's 15 year old safety features (or lack of), driver comfort (of lack of), emissions control (or lack.... think I've made my point)...
No, based on my logic you would buy the tool for the job. Which in your case is a comfortable car, and if it was necessary to impress clients, then it would be a "prestige" brand.
I love driving, and If I could justify/afford something nicer than my 1-Series BMW Diesel company car then I would be down the Audi dealers looking for something with an 'RS' badge in a heartbeat.
However this thread has made me laugh - all these people insisting spending more than a grand on a car is a waste, but would be quite happy to go and splash £5k on a bike, which, based on their ability, will offer nothing that a £1k bike wouldn't provide.
Same with watches - I've seen several threads on here with people showing off their bling watches - does a £3k watch tell the time any better than a £50 Timex?
Same with coffee machines - all they do is boil water, and push it though a little tray of coffee grindings.... no need to spend a fortune....
Each to their own I s'pose - I drive a nice car because I love driving and do a lot of miles - I live in a nice area because I'm a wannabe middle class snob who doesn't want to live next door to total trash (been there done that) and want to bring my kids up somewhere nice.
However, I've 'only' got an entry level Boardman mountain bike (oh the shame) because while I love cycling, I'm crap at it, and can't justify anything better...
However this thread has made me laugh - all these people insisting spending more than a grand on a car is a waste, but would be quite happy to go and splash £5k on a bike, which, based on their ability, will offer nothing that a £1k bike wouldn't provide.
I haven't read every post, but I don't recall anyone saying that. Perhaps you could point it out to me?
My wife's cousin has a fear of owning a car older than 3 years - as she considers them "unreliable". Er..... what?
Interestingly, my in-laws have always purchased a "2-3 year old" car on finance from dealers, and as a result, to my wife the concept of bangernomics (when you're 19, and can only afford a mk3 Fiesta) is absurd. She would rather be tied into a finance package for X years, then spend £500 on an older car. Both of which have zero warranty (or not worth the paper), and could require garage bills. Her parents have zero mechanical knowledge, and even ask me to change numberplate bulbs...
My folks on the other hand have always saved up, and bought their cars outright - and kept them for 15+ years. To me, the thought of a being tied to a finance package for a car is crazy... My Father is a very practical person, partly as he needed to learn - garages were too expensive when he was younger.
It would be interesting to know, how many of those who take the finance packages have parents who also went down that route?
If you're a competent mechanic, would you still choose finance on a more modern car?
Must admit, I've done PCP on the the last 4 cars, mainly for the comfort factor of reliability etc...My wife's Polo agreement ends October, and was going to just get a similar vehicle at the same monthly cost, £226. Reading this, no idea what to do now! She will not want a shonker, does not even like the Polo as it is for old people 🙂
I've just done a comfy 4 hour journey in air conditioned, cruise controlled, leather coated comfort in my 11yo car. . I felt quite smug as I went past others realising I don't need to pay 100's a month to do so. 31mpg average and 231bhp at the rear wheels what's not to like?
I'm starting to believe ill never bother paying much for a replacement if I had to.
Thankfully, you don't need to justify your car to anybody. If someone makes assumptions about you based on your car, it's not your fault.
I don't mix in circles with a lot of wealthy people, but the few people who I know who have nice cars (even, dare I say it, 4x4's) are nice people who don't think too much about what they drive.
If I was totally minted, I would not be driving round an a SMax diesel.
I've just done a comfy 4 hour journey in air conditioned, cruise controlled, leather coated comfort in my 11yo car. . I felt quite smug as I went past others realising I don't need to pay 100's a month to do so. 31mpg average and 231bhp at the rear wheels what's not to like?
I'm starting to believe ill never bother paying much for a replacement if I had to - these days all those toys ^^ in a bike friendly 2nd hand wagon needn't cost much.
Buy a new car with a service contract and you know you'll have nothing to buy except tyres for up to five years with no arguing about how much of the bill for a new particle filter/turbo/GRC valve/injection pump/management box/ABS box you pay or the manufacturer pays. There a no big services looming on the horizon and you know you've got all of the life of the vehicle.
You know you'll have no unexpected costs because you already pay a huge chunk of expected costs - invariably far more than anybody ever pays for fixing expensive bits on an older car.
If you look at the average life of a car in years (8years and three months in France)
On what do you base such a short lifespan? I got rid of my last car at 13 years old, and it still had life left in it (to be honest the air-con worked better than in my current one).
molgrips - Member
I'll keep my Passat until either it dies or I make tons of money. It's pretty comfortable, to be honest, and I like it.
Are you me?
Eight years and three months comes from French government statistics. The kms figure comes from me noting the kms on car speedos when getting the latest silly little bit of plastic/rubber to fail from the breakers.
When drove my 21-year-old Peugeot 605 to the breakers at 260 000kms it didn't feel much different to when it was new. The plastic and rubber things had reached an age where I was going to spend a lot of time and money working on it to keep it going for not much longer, so it went. Steering rack gaiters cost a few pence and a day of grovelling under the car to replace. A fuel pipe doesn't cost much but removing the fuel tank to get at it is messy and time consuming. Worn injectors meant fuel consumption was getting worse even if it was getting faster. Etc.
Most people don't have the time or skills to DIY and their cars get past the economic cost of repair stage long before 21 years. It went when I was no longer sure we could get in and drive to the Alps and back without one of those critical plastic/rubber bits cracking leaking or falling off.
Anyhow, when you buy a second-hand car I suggest working out its price compared to new and comparing the resulting fraction with it's age divided by 9 and the kms it's done by the distance that model usually lasts. If the price is a small fraction of the original cost and the proportion of the cars potential life high then buy second-hand. If not, buying new is a better bet.
Very much a case of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing then?
31mpg average and 231bhp at the rear wheels what's not to like?
31mpg, that's what's not to like!
So how do you define "value" motoring then, thisisnotaspoon? "Reliably and safely getting you, yours and your junk where you want to go in a comfortable, relaxed manner that means you're fit to do what you want to do when you get there at low price" is mine.
Edukator - MemberAnyhow, when you buy a second-hand car I suggest working out its price compared to new and comparing the resulting fraction with it's age divided by 9 and the kms it's done by the distance that model usually lasts. If the price is a small fraction of the original cost and the proportion of the cars potential life high then buy second-hand. If not, buying new is a better bet.
One wonders why you haven't made millions in the auto industry with a formulea like that.
Have not read all he posts, but has anyone mentioned saving up and paying for what you can afford?
I have only owned 2 cars, both of which were bought with cash and not credit. First one cheaper than the second, but simply a matter of applying available cash at the time to search criteria. If I had less cash I would either live without or buy a cheaper car.
Have not read all he posts, but has anyone mentioned saving up and paying for what you can afford?
whats the big deal with saving up v's paying into a finance purchase that will add up to the equivalent amount over the lifetime of the car, it's all just spending money at the end of the day...
I'm with Molgrips here. I buy nice cars since I really like driving. Simple really.
I thought that it was comprehensively proved in a previous thread that Molgrips doesn't like driving . . . . or overtaking ???
Why someone would want to waste 40k plus on a car is beyond me - particularly on some sort of useless tasteless SUV (chav chariot) that's not even any good offroad (e.g. Audi Q3/5/7, BMW X6, X1/3/5, etc).
The lives of these people really must be devoid of any sort of interest yet full of inflated self importance.
Private plates added to these things just add to the 'I'm a absolute c**t' factor. Point proved the other day by seeing a white Audi Q5 being driven badly, with personalised number plate who'se numbers and letters had been badly moved to read i think something like 'Sexy Mel'. Guess who was driving - yes a wrinkled lady in her late 50's. Not my idea of sexy that's for sure.
By the way the average scrappage age for a car in the UK is currently 14 years.
whats the big deal with saving up v's paying into a finance purchase that will add up to the equivalent amount over the lifetime of the car, it's all just spending money at the end of the day...
Huge difference between saving up, vs. paying for a car on finance!
Huge difference between saving up, vs. paying for a car on finance!
not really...
whats the big deal with saving up v's paying into a finance purchase that will add up to the equivalent amount over the lifetime of the car, it's all just spending money at the end of the day...
On alot of finance options you do not own the car.
On some with start and final payments the final payment is the value of the car
You are paying for the first year 30% depreciation of the screen price
If you lose your job, then you might not be able to afford the car payments
rs.... have you noticed the current recession we are in at the moment. You know, the financial crisis thing. Would you care to guess why it happened. I'll give you a clue: It has to do with the difference between saving up to buy things & borrowing money.
If I want to buy a car and i'm starting from zero, then I can save say $200/month, buy a car in a few years for X amount or I can buy a car now for $200/month finance, you can argue the technicalities but at the end of the day if you want a car you need to spend the money. Does it really matter if some people do it one way or the other.
We had a pension company visit us to discuss managing our company pension. They turned up in a BMW 7 series. We turned them down on the basis that if that was their company car, they were taking too much commission.
.
I can't actually remember ever taking any of my kids to school in a car, doesn't sound very nice for the parent or child. 🙁
I can't actually remember ever taking any of my kids to school in a car, what a horrible life for them and the driver.
Yeah, it's a bit shit, but it was either that or a shit school.
If I want to buy a car and i'm starting from zero, then I can save say $200/month, buy a car in a few years for X amount or I can buy a car now for $200/month finance, you can argue the technicalities but at the end of the day if you want a car you need to spend the money. Does it really matter if some people do it one way or the other.
except you're not 'buying' a car are you, and if your cicumstances change and you can't afford the repayments then you're left with no car, no physical object to sell to recoup some cash, and possibly a negative impact on your credit rating as well.
at least if you own it you can stop using it to save some cash, or sell it etc, or you could end up like people I know, one of which couldn't afford to insure or fuel his car after a change of circumstances so had to take his shiny new car off the road, but was still paying for it every month, and the other who got banned for 18 months after being a complete tw*t and had to do the same thing because selling it wouldn't have got enough money to cover the amount still owing.
Excellent, Footflaps.
Save up £x/month for y months to buy a car costing xy. Buy a car costing xy on finance over y months and pay zx where z equals say.... 1.1 Borrowing money is not free, interest accounts for (z-1)x extra cost for the vehicle. So the choice is wait or pay extra (or psu the same for a cheaper vehicle)
Eight years and three months comes from French government statistics. The kms figure comes from me noting the kms on car speedos when getting the latest silly little bit of plastic/rubber to fail from the breakers.
Stats for mean age of a car being scrapped? Including those involved in crashes? I suspect median might be a more useful figure to assess value/cost over the lifespan of a car, assuming you have fully comp insurance. Meanwhile most cars tend to get scrapped due to age rather than mileage (if not involved in a crash) - including your old car by the sounds of things - so I doubt your mileage figures are indicative of what a younger car would fail at.
Anyhow, when you buy a second-hand car I suggest working out its price compared to new and comparing the resulting fraction with it's age divided by 9 and the kms it's done by the distance that model usually lasts. If the price is a small fraction of the original cost and the proportion of the cars potential life high then buy second-hand. If not, buying new is a better bet.
Thanks for the tip. Given even the lowest depreciating cars lose 50% of their value in 3 years and 30,000 miles it's a no brainer even using your dodgy lifespan figures isn't it? I wonder why you don't follow your own advice. The one I just bought cost me ~20% of the new price at 4 years and 120k miles - what do you reckon?
