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There was a Eurovision on? Were ABBA on? I think that was the last time I actually gave a toss. I watered the garden then went to the pub.
Lots of people.
Or bots. Call it bad faith if you want, or bad taste, I just don't get it.
Thousands of eSIM cards in a bot farm can make a big difference in an event like this. Russia always did well in the public vote too
nah - **** it - deleted, no point raising an opinion and getting dogpiled over a song contest.
My suspicions are about the audience vote, theotherjonv. Three years ago they excluded the audience votes from six countries due to irregularities so it is a thing.
https://eurovision.tv/mediacentre/release/ebu-statement-voting-during-2022-shows
Re. Israel scores, Wasn't it the same last year?
Edit - yep. 2024, 52 jury votes, 323 public. 🤬
There was something off with that scoring. I just wish that every now and again all of the ****s in the world would have a night off.
Wasn't the Israeli girl a survivor of the Hamas attack? That won't have hurt her score, will it?
Go on then - why? Other than it's Israel therefore it must be a conspiracy why do you think a perfectly good EV song sung well wouldn't get a lot of support across many nations? Maybe even less surprising because every nation has a proportion of Israeli/Jewish population who may have been motivated to vote in support of a survivor of the October music festival attacks whose rehearsals and performance were disrupted by protestors....or are they included in the **** of the world?
Not everyone sees the situation as black and white as 'Netanyahu bad therefore anything any Israeli does is bad by association'. Plenty of Israeli/Jewish people are protesting inside and outside of Israel at the regime and genocide in Gaza. Equally, plenty of people can see that a vote for a decent song isn't the same as validation of Netanyahu's genocide.
It's a ****ing song competition.
This is hardly a conspiracy. Many people, Jewish or not, wish to express support for Israel, or proxy support for Jewish people generally who might be feeling a bit like outsiders at present, or otherwise just sub-consciously pre-disposed to like Israel's song. Even though (IMO) it was not at all special.
There was no single obvious banger which captured serious audience momentum and dominated votes. A small but significant bloc of people in each country voted for Israel, while everyone else spread votes across the large pool of all 26 countries. Remember there is no negative voting, and most people only vote once.
There is no need to start stories about vote rigging or bot farms. We didn't dismiss Ukraine's landslide audience win in 2022 as cheating.
Could have generated some real political ****-stirring on the audience votes if Palestine had entered though.
Someone who can be bothered should create a politically neutralised version of the votes.
Calculate scores based on how this year's allocations compare to the average of the last 3 years. So Sweden giving Norway 12 points for the 4th year in a row gets corrected to zero. Sweden giving France 10 points after previous years of 2 points becomes 8 etc.
Went to bed before the voting, just catching up, I see Austria won. MrsIHN loved that song, I thought it was awful. To be honest, they were all a bit average this year.
There was a Eurovision on? Were ABBA on? I think that was the last time I actually gave a toss. I watered the garden then went to the pub.
I hope you've updated all the other threads about stuff you're not interested in to let them know that you're not interested, we wouldn't want them to miss out from your vital input
I’m pretty sure the Israel audience vote was manipulated somehow. Take UK and its 12 points - the people who watch Eurovision, certainly those who actually bother to vote are mainly young people, the gay community, students…gen Z. This group is not pre-disposed to pro Israel sentiment, in fact if anything the reverse. My daughters, all thier friends - they don’t know anyone who voted for Israel. If our public vote had put them with 4 points or something that would have made sense but 12? Nah, just doesn’t stack up with a Eurovision audience
No way was that legit.
Not everyone sees the situation as black and white as 'Netanyahu bad therefore anything any Israeli does is bad by association'.
An apartheid state for decades that has been “protected” by the farce of it crying “antisemitism” at any criticism, nah…it’s time to cut Israel off from all sports/events and drop the pretence around Israel being a beacon of democracy and upholder of high moral values.
Israel is a pariah state and should be treated as such
Dodgy as hell. Morrocanoil (Israeli co.) became main sponsors in 2020, since 2022 Israel have come 3rd, 5th and 2nd
Still can't raise such things as would clearly be anti semitic...
I still don't know I subscribe to the conspiracies, but I do get the pariah state argument. The problem I have is the individual who happens to be Israeli vs someone 'representing Israel' and even if it does, does that automatically make them a supporter of Netanyahu. In an ideal world I suppose she'd refuse to participate I guess. And if she chooses to participate is she personally then fair game for the paint throwing protest that it seems security prevented?
To the comment that most voters would be the types unlikely to ignore the Israel situation. Ignoring the stereotyping (because I'm going to do some of my own now 😉 ) the 'artistic types' in Israel might be the ones least likely to be supporters of the Gaza offensive? Although whether being the victim of one of the music festival attacks might harden her opinion, IDK either.
And if she chooses to participate is she personally then fair game for the paint throwing protest that it seems security prevented?
Don't agree with throwing paint, do agree with protesting anyone choosing to Israel right now.
Duplipost
The whole voting system favours this kind of result. For example, if you live in the UK you obviously can't vote for the UK, so you have to choose one of 30-odd other nations. The Jewish diaspora is more likely to vote pretty solidly behind Israel, but other votes, although way more plentiful, will be split between half a dozen frontrunners. Result is 12 points for Israel unless there are only one or two other countries attracting UK votes.
FWIW, it's hard not to see the selection of an artist who was affected by the music festival massacre as a propagandist choice. So I have no problem with people responding with their own political message of protest against the genocide of Gazans.
There is no need to start stories about vote rigging or bot farms.
Agreed. Presumably it’s just British Jews wanting to express their support of the Genocide State.
The reason Israel do well is the same reason (most) cyclists are a shoe in for BBC SPOTY when they're nominated, given cycling is still, like it or not, a minor sport - most people don't vote, so you only need a relatively small but committed group of people to vote to disproportionally swing the result.
And the twelve points go to.......Mossad!
selection of an artist who was affected by the music festival massacre
I understand what are saying but are you downplaying that deliberately or don't you know what happened?
FWIW, it's hard not to see the selection of an artist who was affected by the music festival massacre as a propagandist choice.
She won the Israeli equivalent of BGT or whatever to be there. Or was that rigged, is the suggestion?
It's weird this year for me, because my brother and his partner are actually there, instead of flooding all the social medias with their ESC Fan TV mania and endless posts about incomprehensible madness. But I'm kind of missing their deranged enthusiasm
She won the Israeli equivalent of BGT or whatever to be there. Or was that rigged, is the suggestion?
I imagine her history was known to the voters, so it was probably still a propagandist choice, made by the peace-loving Israeli people.
Plenty of Israeli/Jewish people are protesting inside and outside of Israel at the regime and genocide in Gaza. Equally, plenty of people can see that a vote for a decent song isn't the same as validation of Netanyahu's genocide.
On the first point I've only seen a Palestinian anti-Hamas protest in Gaza on the TV channels I watch in the last few days.
On the second point I disagree, I'd Happily vote for a Ukranian contestant even if I thought the song shit but wouldn't vote for an Israeli song however good.
Soft power counts, if you seriously disagree with a regime boycott everything about it. See the US boycott thread on this forum, people are willing to boycott US stuff even if it causes personal inconvenience, boycotting a song isn't even inconvenient. Israel uses its soft power and even hard power in every way it can to earn creds on the international scene. A few seized Russian-made Hamas weapons given to Ukraine, Start-Up Nation, Mossad, buttering up African nations, buttering up Tony Blair... open your eyes.
A vote for the song was a vote for the contestant, Israel and its Zionist regime.
I note that the Israeli contestant was prepared to give testimony on behalf of the Jerusalem Institute of Justice at a UN hearing (A supposedly independent NGO which spends a lot of time attacking the UN's valid criticism of Israeli war crimes and human rights abuses). So, knowingly or unknowingly, she is part of Israel's ongoing propaganda effort with regard to Gaza.
No-one is downplaying her traumatic history, but there is no doubt that it will have contributed to her success with the voting public in terms of talent show/Eurovision selection, just as it is useful to those who seek to justify the killing of tens of thousands of Gazan children in terms of an ongoing threat from 'external forces'.
It's interesting that the lyrics to her song seem very nice and inoffensive, until you spot the bit where she slips in a passage from the Song of Solomon in Hebrew, which in Judaism is often interpreted as referring to the love between God and Israel rather than romantic love.
"Many waters
Cannot quench love
Neither can the floods
Drown it"
Hmm.
This link explains it better: https://theisraelbible.com/a-new-day-will-rise/
It's very loaded language indeed - this is a political statement about Israel standing strong against external oppression.
Those of us on this thread sceptical about the public vote aren't alone. I agree with Pedro Sánchez.
Get rid of any country that is not actually in Europe and change rules to state that any nation currently at war/in conflict (or whatever words would be needed) are not allowed to compete regardless of who started it!
Then change it back to voting after all the songs are done and only 3 votes each or something, 20 is stupid!