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I've never seen so many talented people regrouped in one place as today.
We had a vote on membership. Yes or no? We lost. No/ leave won. That you can’t get over this is your choice. Living in the past is the foolish bit.
Not knowing what was won is the foolish bit. It’s starting to look a lot like a white elephant.
There's good and coherent arguments you can make for brexit, now. But "We knew what we were voting for" never has been, and never less so than today.
Not knowing what was won is the foolish bit. It’s starting to look a lot like a white elephant.
Red,white and blue strong and stable elephant.
We didnt win anything, just managed to keep ourselves at the table for some more negotiations.
(Otherwise Gove,May,Davies and Bojo would be all sat around a table shittin themselves.)
There’s 27 to be appeased till endgame.
One good thing about all this kicking of cans down the road for me is that I will be retired if / when we finally leave - so can move to the mainland of europe to keep my EU citizenship before the UK leaves
NW if you chose not to understand - as in the Indy debate - then that is your prerogative. To suggest that other people didn’t is merely ( what’s the STW favourite?) patronising and condescending.
It is true that there was only one certainty ie what membership involves including costs and benefits. On the certainty, the democratic process delivered a “no thank you”. People voted against what they knew. That you guys want to deny those people their right is rather sad. The tactics are more than that - they are shameful.
It’s also total BS to argue that we don’t know what is ahead. We know exactly what the range of alternative options for retaining access to the SM are and we also know that the UK is rejecting the idea of accepting an existing off the shelf option but to negotiate a unique free trade agreement.
That undemocratic remoaners have to muddle/ignore and distort this in order to deny voters their right is the bit that shames us
One good thing about all this kicking of cans down the road for me is tat I will be retired if / when we fnally leave - so can move to the mainland of europe to keep my EU citizenship before the UK leaves
Same here probably a bit earlier than I planned.
I’m just annoyed that the politicians just played(are playing) the people on this and fiddling when Rome burns.
I retire in 2021 so hopefully I will be able to move to the netherlands then and gain netherlands residence rights. I have family there.
Bingo.People voted against what they knew.
Bullshit.It’s also total BS to argue that we don’t know what is ahead.
It is true that there was only one certainty ie what membership involves including costs and benefits.
That is easy just add the link or text that defined that and get two leavers to agree to it.
A million people standing around quietly clapping and tapping their feet when they hear a familar tune.
Time to dry our eyes and move on now.
It’s also total BS to argue that we don’t know what is ahead. We know exactly what the range of alternative options for retaining access to the SM are and we also know that the UK is rejecting the idea of accepting an existing off the shelf option but to negotiate a unique free trade agreement.
Well we don’t know what Spain wants to do with Gibraltar so the options may be on the table but if U.K. can’t palate the deal finally offered.(May be wild speculation but a right to veto is a right to veto).
We’re not out of the wood yet plenty more opportunity for mischief and mayhem,unless of course it’s all been stitched up behind the scenes already so a bit more circus and last minute final hour settlement for the masses.
That undemocratic remoaners have to muddle/ignore and distort this in order to deny voters their right is the bit that shames us
THM really is quite terrified, for whatever reason, that brexit might not happen. Only someone who has nothing to lose could persist in the faux outrage that is 'deny voters their right'. I doubt THM even understands the concept of a 'right'.
Nah, thm has a couple of buttons that he knows how/when to press.
Some people he can play like a fiddle...
Just remember who pays the piper.
Adieu Johnny.
THM really is quite terrified, for whatever reason, that brexit might not happen.
Nope
Only someone who has nothing to lose could persist in the faux outrage that is 'deny voters their right'.
Nope ^2
I doubt THM even understands the concept of a 'right'.
That would be displaying ignorance on your side not mine , so that’s your choice entirely. You decide.
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😀 that doesn't even mean anything.That would be displaying ignorance on your side not mine , so that’s your choice entirely. You decide.
Please explain your understanding of the concept of a 'right' in the context of the 'voters'.
We’re not out of the wood yet plenty more opportunity for mischief and mayhem
Unusually refreshing honesty there dude!
So democracy in your world is the people of the future cannot be given a free choice but are bound by the decisions of the people of the past?
Yep, we had a referendum about remaining in the EEC, after being taken in by the politicians without asking us first, and agreed to do so. We abided by that and remained bound by it until the EEC no longer existed.
We were then taken in to the EC, by the politicians, without asking us first, and remained bound by that until the EC no longer existed
We were then taken into the EU, by the politicians, without asking us first (and despite an election manifesto pledge to hold a referendum before accepting the European constitution) and, in just the same way as with the EEC, we then held a referendum about remaining in it, and will once again remain bound by that decision of the people, hopefully till the EU no longer exists.
What you can see is an entirely consistent trait, we remain bound by decisions of the people, but not necessarily bound by decisions of the politicians. Surely that’s how a democracy should work?
Given the leave vote demographic kicking the problem down the road is unlikely to get the outcome they want.
Theres only three choices: a) leave and get borders and tariffs. b) dont leave and get neither. c) pay a load of money to pretend to leave but dont.
We have chosen C, which seem's madder than either of the other options.
teamhurtmore - MemberNW if you chose not to understand - as in the Indy debate - then that is your prerogative. To suggest that other people didn’t is merely ( what’s the STW favourite?) patronising and condescending.
Beyond parody...
Democracy requires an informed electorate. When th majority of the media has run a 20+ year campaign against the EU for there non UK owners own political ends then we do not have a functioning democracy.
its as simple as that
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tjagain - Member
The sketch shows two things.
1. A dignified PM May.
2. The act of a lesser man/person raiding another handbag.
Take you pick. 😆
Edukator - Reformed Troll
Another sketch with double meanings.
1. The British PM trying to compete with one hand.
2. The bully thinking he has upper hand. He thinks he won hand down.
Take you pick. 😆
Context perdy: the government offered the people (they represent) the opportunity to vote on whether they wanted to remain members of the EU and promised to respect the result of the vote whatever the outcome. This was in writing and definitive. So
Right 1: to be able to participate freely in the democratic process offered to them *
Right 2: to have their decision respected and acted on as promised in writing
Right 3: to be respected as individuals - their vote counts as much as anyone’s - not derided generally as thickos and racists
*Remember the Indy debate? One side were lied to on a constant basis, they had no plan re basics of how a country works including what currency to use and how this would work, lied about their obligations and were about to cause economic self harm all in the name of faking control. Many years of lies about how their problems were caused by others.
Did we deprive them of the opportunity?
Did we say that they were too thick (despite evidence that they were accepting the deceitful lies willIngly)?
Did we threaten to ignore their rights?
No we didn’t. Because democracy doesn’t work like that. But note how some of the same people now want to deny others the rights that they were granted. That says a lot.
Chewkw - and one person with a pair of balls (the sober one) 😉 !!
Good interpretation - especially re the bully. Didn’t someone mention that you can judge a man by the company he keeps!! ;-)!
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teamhurtmore - Member
Chewkw - and one person with a pair of balls (the sober one) !!
True, true. 😀
Edukator - Reformed Troll
All Nos (the sketch with No signs) mean a yes for being happy with our identity. 😀
Happy with your identity as a Brexiter:
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The second cartoon portrays Europe as being without foundation and emphasises litlle beyond superficial “attractions”. Why would they want to stress that??
Perditus - based on the above you can see how some remoaners view
Right 3: to be respected as individuals - their vote counts as much as anyone’s - not derided generally as thickos and racists
You chose whose approach you wish to be associated with.
Edukator - Reformed Troll
Happy with your identity as a Brexiter:
The sketch in the pub actually shows people have their own unique identity who may not be acceptable to all (except their own). They may not like everyone but that's who they are.
To me that's their identity(s) and I ain't going to change them nor them changing me. That's the nature of life.
Chewkw - you did notice how the cartoon was intended to sneer and look down on people who had different views!?! Why would anyone want to post a copy?
teamhurtmore - Member
Chewkw - you did notice how the cartoon was intended to sneer and look down on people who had different views!?! Why would anyone want to post a copy?
Yes, that's the nature of news/media/social media/social engineering nowadays. They need to do that to ensure their own existence. 😛
Democracy requires an informed electorate. When th majority of the media has run a 20+ year campaign against the EU for there non UK owners own political ends then we do not have a functioning democracy.
I bet a fiver you wouldn't be arguing to ignore the outcome of the referendum on the basis of an ill-informed electorate if you had won
(Same goes for Scotchland referendum too, of course)
Only a fiver? The hypocrisy is breathtaking and informative to read and note.
I've found something to explain your recent travels:
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Interesting that you also choose to post racist cartoons. Again very informative. True colours....
Ninfan no because it would have been [i]despite[/i] the bias press. BTW - stop with the petty racism about Scotland. You are better than that. Scotchland is a racist term.
Should we ban Racist food too?
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But mostly it's:
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Two sides to every story and the one you're hearing probably isn't the one the electorate of 27 heads of state is hearing.
(Same goes for Scotchland referendum too, of course)
650 page white paper vs the side of a bus.
We win.
Scotchland is a racist term.
Why wife is a scotch. Can I brag I'm in a mixed race marriage now?
Ninfan - you know the difference. Scotch is the produce, scots are the people. To do as you did is racist. and you know it. Windups are fine so long as they do not descend into cheap petty racism. Don't lower yourself to THM levels