[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

teamhurtmore - Member
If this stage was tortuous the next one will be worse. Inside track, the French are going to delay next phase as long as possible. How did Sartre start “la nausee”?

Makes sense (if you're French of course) and would explain the reports earlier this year, that said that many French firms were making 'exploratory' calls, visits, and probably scheduled meetings too I would imagine, with some of our multinationals.

Well, you would, wouldn't you?

Poor old Gideon is trying to find something to be bitter about in tonight’s standard - but ended with a positive conclusion to the editorial. How bitter must that have tasted?

So what's to stop CRC dispatching bikes to the republic duty free?

I think that the likes of CRC will operate within the rules, what they may do is look to exploit the rules. It is unfortunate that at the moment we have a mode of law, especially for business and finance, where the specific rule of law is allowed to override the intent of law.

So it seems my buddy who voted leave, and lives in Scotland will be able to retain his EU citizenship because he was born in Belfast. I voted Remain and live in Scotland but can't claim EU citizenship as I was born in Scotland. Brexit it's the gift that just won't stop giving.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-keep-eu-citizenship-irish-border-a8099176.html ]The Independent[/url]

gordimhor - Member

So it seems my buddy who voted leave, and lives in Scotland will be able to retain his EU citizenship because he was born in Belfast. I voted Remain and live in Scotland but can't claim EU citizenship as I was born in Scotland. Brexit its the gift that just won't stop giving.
The Independent

Which is what I said back there <<<< somewhere. It's something NI residents would have already been able to avail of even if the UK had never been a part of the EU.

An interesting turn of phrase in the article ...

[i]“The people of [b]Northern Ireland who are Irish citizens[/b] will continue to enjoy rights as EU citizens, including where they reside in Northern Ireland.”[/i]

Being a NI resident (living there) isn't the same as being an Irish citizen (born there or otherwise entitled).

Well well well. I can only congratulate May on finally making some sort of deal. Its a shame she squandered a load of goodwill on it and funnily enough its precisely what was the EUs starting point.

Now her problems really start. Keeping the rabids on side and now we get down to the real negotiation.

18 months spent, loads of political capital used up. She folded on everything. But then it was obvious from the beginning her red lines were nonsense.

All the same - she has fronted up and ridden that tiger to the only possible destination. Now to steer it thru parliament and to dodge the knives in her back

This video of Raab getting very spanked today really needs to be shared widely

https://www.channel4.com/news/dominic-raab-on-brexit-deal-its-your-wilful-inability-to-accept-that-weve-actually-made-a-positive-step-forward

nough its precisely what was the EUs starting point.

Nope

But appreciate eating humble pie is difficult. She (and the very clever people behind the scenes) have done an amazing job in circumstances that would have defeated most people.

They proved the remoaners very wrong indeed. Thank goodness

But you are correct that the hard work begins now that we have got to the startling point eventually and despite the EUs worst efforts

in fact with the Police (in my experience) there is even more of a right wing bias in officer's minds, not surprising given their often despicable clientele, it tends to stiffen ones resolve and beat the compassion out of you...maybe not what the lefty progressives on here want to hear.

I’m a firefighter and find we have the most problems with the type of person you seem to be. You know, thicker than they think they are, racist, bitter, self entitled and angry about everything and nothing. Should that make me a swivel eyed Tory or yogurt knitting leftie? Virtually all the paramedics we work with seem nicer than you.

But appreciate eating humble pie is difficult. She (and the very clever people behind the scenes) have done an amazing job in circumstances that would have defeated most people.

They proved the remoaners very wrong indeed. Thank goodness

But you are correct that the hard work begins now that we have got to the startling point eventually and despite the EUs worst efforts

Keep going THM, you are the gift that keeps on giving. 😉

They proved the remoaners very wrong indeed. Thank goodness

Still looks like a cluster**** to me.

I will,don’t worry. It’s going as planned so easier than it must be for you. Hope you can cope with the disappointment

She (and the very clever people behind the scenes) have done an amazing job in circumstances that would have defeated most people.

Have I misundersetimated you ?

Yes you're right THM, it's a glorious victory for the Maybot and brexiteers over the perfidious foreigners. No wonder Farage is overjoyed, along with that vile Banks man and even jamby on here. Looking forward to my first bite into a juicy chlorine-washed chicken.

(who am I kidding, I've had plenty - but not in the UK up to now)

It’s going as planned

That was planned 😆

Edit; I think this might just be your [i]Jambalaya 150 majority[/i] moment...

What an odd choice you make captain

Farage happy 😯

.It’s going as planned

So the dup snafu earlier in the week was part of the plan, interesting negotiating technique there.

TM agreed more or less the same thing the uk had before but at the same time lost 99% of its influence .

your Tory allegiance knows no bounds .

😀

She (and the very clever people behind the scenes) have done an amazing job in circumstances that would have defeated most people.

The only true bit of that is she secured an agreement that a week ago looked beyond her. The fact she could have had that agreement 18 months ago makes it look somewhat self defeating and what concessions did she get - zero

Now there is under a year to do the difficult part - including keeping the rabid tendency on side. I think once they red the small print and realise she has conceded every red line she drew that the tory infighting will only get worse

😀 😀

It’s going as planned

Theres a plan...you should upload it to the Maybot

We will still be in a transitional position at the time of the next General Election. I'm sure the Tories would have preferred to avoid that.

There is no such thing as a Brexit Bill or Divorce Payment. May/EU have fudged the issue by saying we will effectively remain in the EU until Dec 2020 enjoying single market / customs union “membership”

These figures (£40bn) are what it costs to be a member for 2 years plus the pension deficit. Odly enough it’s about £350m a week. £20bn is our net annual contributions over 2 years and the other £30bn is hidden stuff like loans (which should be paid back, then we have roughly £10bn coming back to us)

We could (and should) have just left making a clean break in March 2019 and payed virtually nothing (maybe even a net recipent)

Citizen stuff is nonsense, until March 2019 anyone coming here (just for a week ?) gets to stay / return bringing their husband/wife, kids, parents and grandparents !

Ireland border more nonsense, the lack of a hard border cannot be [b]guaranteed[/b]. Its simply not possible, Both sides can commit to doing what they can to avoid it but thats it. Major error from May. Politico is also confused regarding the ambiguity of the Irish border wording

https://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-brexit-divorce-deal-doesnt-add-up/

The EU and UK are “committed” to come with the tra sition deal by March 2018 but it says nothing about the final trade deal. EU is incentivised to just delay and delay to keep us in and paying longer via an extended transition. We should have had a clause which says end state trade deal largely / fully agreed by March 2019

This piece from Policto is typically slanted pro EU as usual but worth a read (markup and commentary on the agreement)

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-document-annotated/

Anyway personally hoping the deal gets voted down in Parliament and we default to WTO.

@danny happy birthday. Not been checking the thread all day hence missed your question - will give it proper attention tomorrow.

Even Laura K spat out “it was a good day for TM”

😀

jambalaya - Member

There is no such thing as a Brexit Bill or Divorce Payment.

Nonsense. Maybot has agreed effectively a blank cheque including ongoing payments beyond the leave date.

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20121205194057[/img]

Ireland border more nonsense, the lack of a hard border cannot be guaranteed.

Easy. Next ge whoever wins no longer depends on dup and they go back to being ignored and stealing subsidy schemes rather than bribes for cash - no hard border then

TJ the loan commitments and the pensions go far beyond the end of 2020

There is not a euro being paid which is over and above what we owe as a member of the EU until Dec 2020. There is no new money and it is not being paid upfront.

Nonsense. Maybot has agreed effectively a blank cheque including ongoing payments beyond the leave date.

😀 😀

Yesa thats right - we are going to pay everything we owe for 7 years plus any other bills that occur between now and the date we leave. a complete capitulation to the EU. A humiliating climbdown for the tories. Basically in the end as it was clear they would have to they agreed to everything the EU asked for on day one. Shame they wasted 18 months getting to this point

Check the agreement. Its everything in this budget round which is 7 years plus any other commitments that arise between now and us actually leaving.

this is exactly what the EU asked for on day one and could have been agreed then

teamhurtmore - Member
Even Laura K spat out “it was a good day for TM”

To be fair I don't think May has had a good day since last September

Any day that May doesn't get decapitated is a good day for May.

No no no let me finish, you're entirely right THM, you must be delighted at how the plan has worked out. May has completely destroyed any remoaner arguments with her promise to remain in "full regulatory alignment". Take back control!

Even Laura K spat out “it was a good day for TM”

Being a fully paid up tory she would wouldn't she

Did you read the text TMH, surely you did. Its been agreed we will respect the Framework (“budget”) till Dec 2020 as if we where a member. This includes commitments that will go beyond 2020 like pensions and loans. It also says explicitly we will only pay towards projects which are funded by all 28 - so no stitch ups

Anyway personally hoping the deal gets voted down in Parliament and we default to WTO.

TJ we have agreed to pay up until 2020 on the basis we effectively remain a member of the EU

The EU wanted an even larger amount unfront including relocation costs for agencies and in return for nothing, no transition period etc.

Anyway its a mistake to have agreed this. Hopefully it will fall apart.

No no no let me finish, you're entirely right THM

True. Well done.

But appreciate that it must be tough being a remoaner today. An incompetent PM supported by no one of intelligence ends up proving you AND the nutters wrong.

TM of all people 😀 T blloody M 😀

yes thats right Jamba - we have conceded everything the EU asked for bar the relocation expenses

And it is not limited to 2020. Its all commitments entered into in that time as well and ongoing payments beyond this

Being a fully paid up tory she would wouldn't she

Odd that everyone who proves you wrong is a fully paid up Tory. With so many, how did they screw up the last election?

But easy to see why you might think that given that she needed protection from Labour bullies this year

With the border agreement hasn't the UK effectively agreed to stay in the Customs Union regardless of what happens?

Or is the plan to stay in the Customs Union until the DUP are no longer relevant and then move the border to the Irish Sea?

Bruce - I doubt they have been thinking that far but yes - regulatory alignment across the whole of the UK has been promised and that is the effect.

Sad day in some ways, good in others.

Good because it makes the ridiculous situation of hard Brexit less likely.

Sad because it makes soft Brexit more likely.

Given the choice between hard Brexit (yes I know “certain people” on here refute the existence of hard Brexit) and remaining, the UK (parliament, population or even government) would chose to remain.

But soft Brexit or remain? Less clear cut.

Still, the deal done today leaves the possibility of the four freedoms being up held. Only a Brexy wouldn’t want to see freedom upheld.

Time for this yet again, basically its the High scenario in return for 2 more years single market full tariff free access

[img] [/img]

mefty / TMH perhaps you can tell me why the agreement draft shows £3.5bn coming back from EIB and not the higher figures shown above