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But would it?
Indeed. The last day of parliament sitting where a VONC could be called, possibly ending up with a general election before our current exit date, has now passed. Jeremy had a rally the next day to celebrate it passing — no, sorry, to call for the chance to have been seized by himself, or something. Push this government out now, and you need to have a government ready to replace it, without an election, to request an extension from the EU before calling an election. And the big problem with that is it looks to many normal people in the street as undemocratically stopping Brexit… or at least you know it will be painted that way for them.
Errm the lib dems have, unsurprisingly, explicitly rulled out a partnership with the tories.
Cite? Because thats not what I have seen. Deal with anyone bar the labour party
Lib dems / greens / plaid / snp are not going to get anywhere near a majority
Off the top of my head I could name quite a few very effective areas where the Lib Dem’s reined in the Tories plans.
Really - name a couple then.
And … back to the EU, and the issues in hand … this year … approaching like a steam train …
The last day of parliament sitting where a VONC could be called, possibly ending up with a general election before our current exit date, has now passed.
4 weeks from dissolution of parliament to a new election. 2 weeks max from vonc to dissolution
12 weeks to brexit day
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
You're clutching at straws there, Kerplunk.
Like it or loath it, the tuition fees stance is old news, and from my understanding has actually cost the taxpayer more than the students.. The price might be higher but the repayments are on such a sliding scale that the student (now I'm a profession) they hardly hit thier pay checks.
Unless your name is tarquin and your degree is media studies.
12 weeks to brexit day
When does Parliament next have a sitting day when a VONC process can be kicked off by the opposition?
4 weeks from dissolution of parliament to a new election. 2 weeks max from vonc to dissolution
12 weeks to brexit day
But parliament doesn't sit until 3rd Sep, plus 2 weeks for defeated government to try to cling to power after VONC.
Ah - missed that! Doh!
Like it or loath it, the tuition fees stance is old news, and from my understanding has actually cost the taxpayer more than the students.. The price might be higher but the repayments are on such a sliding scale that the student (now I’m a profession) they hardly hit thier pay checks.
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
At this rate we'll have no government in place a week before Brexit and Her Maj will have to phone up Donald Tusk to ask him to hang on a minute while we get ourselves sorted...
I( am still awaiting the list of tory policies they stopped!
Guys - until they admit they were wrong then the lib dems remain toast. they will not be forgiven and Swinson has doubled down stating she is proud of what she did in coalition - thats 20 000 extra deaths, millions impoverished and selling of state assets cheap to tory spivs.
Also the Alistair Carmichael scandal has ruined them in Scotland
When you have honesty as your USP and lose that you have nothing left.
I'll make a bet here - next GE lib dems do not reach 50 seats and probably not 30 and remain the 4th party behind tory. labour and snp
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the
LibdemsTorylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
Despite that being nearly 10 years and 4 leaders (Clegg, Farron, Cable, Swinson) ago with 4 or their 12 MPs not even being in parliament during coalition and only 2 of the current 12 having been in the coalition cabinet (Davey, Cable)?
Sounds exactly like the same party to me, I mean, they're libdem MPs. Either they are cloned or they must have been forced to retrospectively agree with everything that the party did since it's formation to get on the voting slip..........................Surely they aren't allowed to have their own opinions or change the party's outlook and direction?
Unless you distrust all politicians, but only choose to vent against the Libdems (which is a bit like VanHelsing declaring to eradicate vampires and then going after Count Duckula).
Didn't a thingymajig get passed a few weeks ago that allows the commons to seize control of parliament for a day? My guess isthat's when the VONC will come, but we are relying on magic grandad for that to come to pass.
Ah – missed that! Doh!
Not your fault at all… lots of noise was made to hide the fact that the last chance was slipping past for a General Election to be forced through before we Leave. The rally to call for an election after the opposition let the chance pass being only one example (Mogg’s style guide was a more effective one).
So what happens now? If, because he knows he can’t get a No Deal Brexit budget passed, Johnson calls chicken, and asks for parliament to vote for calling a general election, what does everyone do? After years of calling for an election, Corbyn will be able to whip his party to support the principal… despite it meaning there is no way for any new government to step in and ask for an extension from the EU. We leave on No Deal, and whoever wins the election, has to pass emergency budgets and measures (including home rule in Northern Ireland). An election this autumn needs to be avoided… and this government needs to be removed… all without looking undemocratic to the voters… square that one!
Also the Alistair Carmichael scandal has ruined them in Scotland
The man shouldn’t be an MP. He’s a stain on Parliament.
But… back to the EU… and the train coming down the tunnel very, very soon… with Raab&co in charge of all the signals…
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
Yes as a minority partner in coalition.. They had to pick thier fights carefully.. This wasn't one of them. FFS change the record, the manifesto was based on if they had a majority government.
And come on, how many governments DID have a majority in the past and then scraped manifesto pledges? PMSL
I'm sure Boris will bluster his way past it...
And come on, how many governments DID have a majority in the past and then scraped manifesto pledges? PMSL
exactly the same as any other party, can't be believed.
I'm still awaiting the list of tory policies they stopped!
Here you go TJ, a few to have a look at:
Inheritance tax cuts for millionaires
Scrapping help with housing costs for young people
Weakening arrest warrants for people who have fled overseas
Firing workers at will, without any reasons given
Regional pay penalising public sector workers outside London and the South East
Privatising the motorways and key A-Roads
The Snoopers’ Charter
Bringing back the old O-level / CSE divide
Profit-making in state schools
Cutting the time childminders can give to each child
Cutting new nursery buildings
Stopping geography teachers telling children about how we can tackle climate change
Axing human rights from national curriculum
Ditching the Human Rights Act
Appointing Michael Howard as a European Union Commissioner
Watering down the ban on hunting by allowing 40 dogs to flush out a fox
Weakening the protections in the Equalities Act
Renewing Trident in this Parliament
Scrapping Natural England
Cutting investment in green energy
Nation-wide immigration checks on all new tenants and lodgers
And why shouldn't Swinson be proud of what they achieved in coalition? Compared to what has been done by the Tories since they had a majority I'd say the libdems did a pretty bang up job of reigning the selfish ****s in. It is a shame that they were blamed for everything that happened in the coalition and all people ever do is shout "tuition fees".
And I'm not even a past LibDem voter. Just a grown-up able to look beyond mudslinging and headlines and take a pragmatic view 😉
Time to start a separate Jo Swinson thread?
Yes thats right they did all those things. Enabled tax cuts for the richest, scrapped help for housing for young people etc.
Now lets see what they stopped 😉
20 000 extra deaths from austerity. the bedroom tax, huge cuts to benefits, selling the post office cheap, massive cuts in investment in green energy - all happened under the coalition.
they didn't make anything but the slightest difference - how often did they vote against the tories - not once!
It was a huge blunder to go into coalition - they should have done supply and confidence and retained some power. Instead they gave it all away
The best thing about blaming the LibDems for all that was bad, and letting the Conservatives take the credit for anything positive, is that lots of seats went from LibDem to Conservative, helping Cameron get a majority, giving the more extreme Eurosceptics in his party more sway…
Anyway, back to this year, and the train coming straight at us… what is genuinely left to stop it… that won’t result in the Conservatives claiming all other parties have performed an undemocratic coup, and then storming in with a majority at an election, with most Brexit Party supporters back on their side…?
Which is worse - being a selfish twerp or enabling selfish twerps?
If they had not gone into coalition we would not have had austerity and 20 000 people would not have died younger than they needed to.
Swinson is so riught wing 25 years ago she would have been in the tory party - look at her voting record. Lib dems could be a force for good but under Swinson they are tory lite. she is also a liar and a carpetbagger.
anyway - thread drift you are right - and WTF am I doing back on a politics thread!
I'm more concerned about now and the future than the past.
they are tory lite
It’s going to take a lot of “Tory lite” voters and politicians to stop Brexit, or even just delay it and stop a No Deal Brexit… the left can’t do it alone (and some aren’t even actively trying).
At least she can directly answer questions... That's more than labour or the tories can do.
Hey TJ,
So working with tories is always wrong and must never be forgotten.
Good to know. Does that make SNP supporters "black and yellow tories" to go with all of the other torytypes you've identified?
So who is pure enough to hold the saltire of loveliness (and scribble their political slogans on it like nationalist divs).
(Edit for clarity .. "working with tories" up there is a link to a story about the SNP "working with tories".
Ludicrous to blame Lib Dems for things that happened in the coalition government. It's not like Clegg had full power over everything is it?
there is a difference between working together in a council or parliament that is elected by propotional representation and going into formal coalition in a FPTP parliamnet.
The scottish electoral system is designed both at holyrood and in councils to ensure no one has overall majorities.
That arcticle is wrong - it was never a formal coalition. SNP made their case on any policy and challenged parliament to vote for it or against it. The tories engaged co operatlivly - as is the intent at holyrood. labour and lib dems just automatically opposed the SNP on anything
so - a totally different sort of situation and there was NO formal coalition
Molgripos - if he had done supply and confidence he would have had a veto over every policy. As it is he gave away all his power. they never once voted down a tory proposal
Who mentioned the coalition ? It’s a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
Quite right too. I don't trust the Germans because of Hitler, or the Scandinavians because of the Vikings. Come to that, I don't trust anyone because of Original Sin.
the merits of the policy have nothing to do with it, did they or did they not renege on a manifesto commitment ?
Whereas it's a well documented fact that every other party in history has always fulfilled 100% of its manifesto commitments and not forgotten all about them as soon as the election is won.
"Yes but tuition fees" is simply an excuse to justify a party prejudice. Throughout history you won't find a single party that only ever did good things or only ever did bad things. You could equally well argue against Labour for the Iraq War or the Tories for removing free milk from schools. It's cherry-picking and it's lazy. Arguably it's even propaganda - how many other actions, good or bad, ever get mentioned? Why is it always tuition fees?
You want to criticise a party then go ahead, but criticise them for their actions now rather than for what an entirely different group of people did a decade or three ago. And lets face it, it's not like we're lacking for current material. If the Lib Dems are currently our greatest chance of stopping brexit, I don't care if ten years ago they were eating babies. I'd probably say the same of UKIP in the highly unlikely event that they did a sudden U-turn.
Their actions now? Moving the party further and further to the right so they occupy the ground the tories did 25 years ago? electing a liar and carpetbagger as their leader?
Look at her voting record!
At least she can directly answer questions… That’s more than labour or the tories can do.
Their actions now? Moving the party further and further to the right so they occupy the ground the tories did 25 years ago? electing a liar and carpetbagger as their leader?
Look at her voting record!
I'm not arguing for or against any party. It's hard to pick out many good guys in the HoC currently and certainly not collectively. Rather, every time I read "tuition fees" it makes me want to put a brick through the screen. We can't move forward if we're obsessing about the past.
Voting record aside, what are her policies now? Three and a half years ago Theresa May was a remain campaigner, that proved to be a reliable metric didn't it.
I( am still awaiting the list of tory policies they stopped!
T-J : Unlike yourself not all of us on this forum have the tenacity nor the will to sit behind a keyboard and argue a point to death but thanks to shackleton/cougar etc for pointing out the bloody obvious, not that it will make the slightest bit of difference.
And it is easy to see how Brexit is happening so easily.
A PM elected by 90000 people is doing what he wants unopposed and all you lot are doing is arguing about years old policies and decisions.
Wake the **** up and do something about current situation!
Wake the **** up and do something about current situation!
Any suggestions?
Give your support to commited Remain parties?
Give your support to commited Remain parties?
Or convince your party to become committed. Owen Jones is finally back on board. Who’s left, outside the bunker?
Give your support to commited Remain parties?
Did that ages ago, anything else?
Realistically, it has to be solved using the MPs we already have… contact them by all means available to you. Many do consider it part of their job to engage, and do.
contact them by all means available to you
Richard Benyon has stopped replying to me....
Anything else?
As above, there is nothing much we can do. It's in the hands of the Government and Parliament.
Even if there is a GE because Boris can't get a deal with EU and Parly bins no deal then we'll all have 1 vote and for only a minority of us that vote will have any influence in marginal seats. Then it would take a coalition of remain parties including Labour to win a majority for a 2nd ref
I think we all know this and that's why there is so much frustration and aggro on this and the other political threads
Anything else?
I have given up on “my” MP… they ignore emails and block on Facebook (and left Twitter)… and contacted many others who were still keeping too quiet, or went for the “damaging but democratically unavoidable” line, in all parties… some have over the last few years become more vocal about what needs to happen (not my doing of course, but due to moving events and the views shared with them by many many others).
Good thread from Chris hope of the telegraph about what Cummings might be plotting over the summer
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1156594392939073536?s=19
Meanwhile the by-election tomorrow will be interesting for the Tories & lib Dems (and labour)
Johnson's not been keen to plug the dodgy Tory candidate
https://twitter.com/elashton/status/1156544746631979008?s=19
TJ,
Same old purity tests, same old populism.
You shouldn't set up and sloganise purity tests no-one can pass and then tie yourself in knots defending them.
Compromise is a good thing in politics for anyone over 12.
The only branch of politics that demands "purity" is nationalism/populism, and you wouldn't want to see that in Scottish politics would you?
Also applies to brexit, where apparently now Dominic Cummings is not enough of a leaver for Farage. LINK
We're all doomed.
Nonsense eat the pudding.
WTF is a "purity test"
Holyrood is set up to be a consensual and co operative parliament as a result of its PR electoral system
only once since the formation has there been a majority government. the rest of the time its been minority governments or coalitions - as intended. Now when the SNP first took control with a minority administration both labour and lib dems refused to have anything to do with anything the SNP proposed automatically voting against them. IN order to get any votes passed then the SNP had to work with the tories, the greens, scottish socialist etc. so they did - thats pragmatic compromise. Labour sewed the seeds of its downfall in scotland at this time by its total no cooperation and the Bain principle. The minor parties thus gained a fair amount of power ( although the Greens rather blew their chance)
There was never any formal coalition SNP / tory
HGowever on a vote by vote basis with a bit of " you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" the tories supported SNP policies they had little trouble with in return for a bit of SNP support for policies the SNP had little trouble with. same with greens and scottish socialist. Out of thei the SNP government lasted the full term, acheived most of its aims and the greens, scottish socialist and tories got a few things thru. Labout put themselves in the wilderness
This is how Holyrood is supposed to work even tho labour did their best to wreck it.
Nopw lets compare this to the Tory / lib dem coalition at westminster
By going into formal coalition the lib dems gave away all their power especially once Clegg decided they would support the tories for the whole 5 years. This meant the lib dems voting for tory policies they must have known were wrong. The tories soon realised that the lib dems were never going to vote them down on any issue thus then simply ran roughshod over them treating them as lobby fodder.
I am not one of those that think the lib dems should have tried coalition with labour - it wouldn't have worked)
If the lib dems had done a supply and confidence deal they would have retained a lot more actual power as they would have been free to vote down tory policies like selling off the post office. But by going into coalition and by making it clear they would not vote the tories down on any issue they lost all this power.
Do you really think the lib dems would have voted for some of these nasty tory policies if they had had a free vote - of course not.
Thats the differnce. In scotland there never was any formal agreement and stuff was done on a vote by vote basis with the minority parties holding a lot of power. In Westminster the lib dems simply became lobby fodder and lost all power
WTF are you on about? I haven't vote labour for a decade due to their antics as above and am no supporter of Corbyn. I simply hate the sorts of lies that are told about him and like a bit of truth and clarity
If that's the case TJ, I don't know why the hell you defend him - to us lefties down south he's a liability. To you guys maybe not. You have your SNP and Greens who can actually gain seats - we have what again? We have a reason to be pissed with him - whilst you don't have a horse in the race. At the end of the day, you know and have the privilege to piss off from the union and let England wallow in crass stupidity. Scotland is superior, we get it - I might even end up there as a bloody Brexit refugee.
If we were North of the border some of us here might see the issue in much the same way as you, but we don't.
You should get this TJ.
TJ,
Its pretty clear what a "purity test" is in the context we're discussing
(google ideological or political purity test if unsure).
Its the same pish that keeps popping up from the SNP about how labour "shared a platform with the tories" against independence and can NEVER be forgiven, but ignores the fact that Nichola has been on the same anti-brexit platform as a variety of tories since with no comment.
Its a simple way to short circuit the "thinking" part of politics and jump straight to tribalism and populism, and whatever follows.
Its lazy thinking and lazy politics, and can have unfortunate divisive and populist results.
Do I agree with everything the lib dems did in power with the tories, hell no.
Do I think that a grown up politics involves compromise, hell yes.
(For clarity i DO think that Corbyn is a terrorist supporting, anti semitic, ineffectual prick, and that IS based on who he has hung around with in the past. I don't like purity tests but I do have some standards)
Question: If Torys loose Brecon and Radnorshire to the Lib dems, so their majority is one; what happens if two tories defect? Do they just stick as a minority govt or is there a mechanism where the other parties could club together to say they have a majority coalition without a VONC?
so their majority is one; what happens if
two toriesone tory defects?
FTFY. 🙂
The government remains until there are two successful VONC in the House of Commons over a two week period. At that point any party/coalition that thinks they can form a government can approach the Queen and request the opportunity.
Realistically, though, VONC would require the votes of quite a few Tory MPs, there would be no viable coalition at that point, and so a general election would be called.
And we’d leave with No Deal, and no government in place to deal with it, while an election campaign was under way, unless the outgoing PM broke his word and asked for an extension from the EU.
See now why Corbyn HAD to act (but didn’t) when the other parties (and some resigning Conservative monsters) tried to?
Johnson has Parliament snookered now, unless they can work across parties to form a new government that can ask for the extension before calling an election. And then, everyone but Johnson and the rest of his Conservative Brexit Party can be painted as undemocratic for stopping us leaving… Johnson gets a landslide… we leave the EU in May with No Deal. I think he’s hoping for this anyway, as he knows we need more time to prepare, and it gives him his mandate and five years minimum as PM.
Presumably as we have fixed term parliaments a vote would be needed to dissolve parliament early, assuming that is amendable then it could be enforced that an extension is requested and because it is a primary piece of legislation it would be enforced.
unless the vonc overrides that
Why not give it to the NHS instead?
Because it will be privatised next year.
Question: If Torys loose Brecon and Radnorshire to the Lib dems, so their majority is one; what happens if two tories defect? Do they just stick as a minority govt or is there a mechanism where the other parties could club together to say they have a majority coalition without a VONC?
No Boris will get some Irish party to join up, Promising them free reign and a united Ireland, God awful country.... take it ,can hear him now
To be honest if Boris hopefully demolishes the backstop at least the yanks wont want a trade agreement , and there's only one set of idiots id rather see the back of than the Tories and that's warmongering money grabbing American politicians.
Presumably
Unless after 2 VONC a replacement government can not be formed, then we have an election without it being voted for, and no government to be “enforced” to do anything first. It would all be a huge gamble that many MPs will back away from. The time to move to stop Johnson and No Deal has just passed… and the “opposition” let it pass, and their leader held a little rally to celebrate call for the government to stand down and hold an election instead.
I still think Johnson will challenge Parliament to call an election (needs 70% vote IIRC) after it uses all measures to seek to stop No Deal. What do the other parties do then? If they agree, there is no government to seek an extension and we leave with No Deal while an election is taking place, if they say no, they will be painted as “frit” (and some have been calling for that election and little else for years now).
Worth a read…
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17804904.nicola-sturgeon-right-believe-boris-wants-no-deal-brexit/
I’d copy and paste some extracts, but I think it’s all worth reading, and it all threads together in a way that taking a section out of context might weaken.
The time to move to stop Johnson and No Deal has just passed… and the “opposition” let it pass
I must have missed that. When did labour have the ability to stop Johnson being elected or prevent no deal? The only way labour could have done either would have been to vote May's deal through parliament, but I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean?
This is just brilliant - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836
Fact check on Raab's 'no-deal' comments. Sadly wont make any difference - fake news etc..
Eat the pudding - none of what y9u describe is my position nor have I ever said it. I even said I believed the lib dems should have co operated with the tories - just that going into coalition was a massive blunder and caused huge damage to the country. Until they acknowledge this ( and most lib dem activists do) then they remain beyond the pale for me.
My turning away from Scottish labour was not to do with sharing a platform with the tories - tho that was also a massive error in judgement. Its their behavior in Holyrood since losing power and the appalling behavior of Murphy during the independence vote campaign that means I no longer support scottish labour. again until they reset and acknowledge the wrong then I will not support them
dazh
Subscriber
The time to move to stop Johnson and No Deal has just passed… and the “opposition” let it passI must have missed that. When did labour have the ability to stop Johnson being elected or prevent no deal? The only way labour could have done either would have been to vote May’s deal through parliament, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what you mean?
Labour made the attempt several weeks ago, they got the cross party support that was needed but 18 labour mps did not support them so it fell
As for a VONC - if labour thought they would win they would have gone for it.
Labour made the attempt several weeks ago, they got the cross party support that was needed but 18 labour mps did not support them so it fell
Yes I remember now. I also seem to remember that Corbyn whipped his MPs to support the vote to prevent no deal? Or is that wrong?
TJ my comment wasn't all about "things you said" it was about the danger of purity tests in politics, and the resultant tribalism and populism.
I think that compromise will make better politics than dictatorship, and going on and on about the equivalent of "what your sandra did to our billy in high school" in the place where we are now is just political masturbation.
At the moment I'd vote Sinn Fein if I thought it would stop brexit (and not make things worse), and they've done worse things to my family than make the odd stupid compromise and not offer a fullsome apology.
Or is that wrong?
That was before a Johnson government was imminent.
Since then, government ministers resigned… one specifically asked the Speaker for a vote in the house to test if Johnson and his No Deal policy had the confidence of the house. Other party leaders also called for such a vote. The Speaker said the he would only allow such a vote if the request came from the Leader Of The Opposition. He declined, and, once the deadline had passed, held a little rally to call for… well, what he had avoided Parliament voting on.
He declined
Hang on wasn't everyone ridiculing Corbyn a few months ago for calling a 'pointless' VONC which he couldn't win? I distinctly remember at least one Life of Brian picture on the subject 🙂
unless the outgoing PM broke his word and asked for an extension from the EU.
Strictly speaking, Whitehall runs the country during an election campaign following the dissolution of Parliament, so it is not entirely encumbent on Boris to ask for an extension.
But we are now entirely dependent on the goodwill of the EU 27 in terms of getting one. And I feel they may have just had enough of our screwing about.
The VONC would require significant support from the Hammonds, Alan Duncans and David Gaukes of the Tory party to offset those members of the PLP who would abstain or vote against due to Brexit ideology, and to compensate for 'missing' MPs who either will not, or cannot, attend, eg Sinn Fein.
I quite agree eat the pudding - thats why I like the holyrood setup as it forces co operation and concensus ( unless you are labour when you just sit in the corner and sulk)
The differnce between the SNP / tory cooperation and the tory / lib dem coalition tho is that in holyrood the tories maximized their power, in westminster the lib dems gave it all away
Actually surely the best resolution for all sides is that as sinn fein feel so strongly they should turn up for a few weeks to nail the government make sure no deal cannot happen then they can do what they like again
Subscriber
Labour made the attempt several weeks ago, they got the cross party support that was needed but 18 labour mps did not support them so it fell
Yes I remember now. I also seem to remember that Corbyn whipped his MPs to support the vote to prevent no deal? Or is that
wrong?
No you are right. 18 labour mps not supporting the labour motion meant it failed despite 8 tories voting with labour
The other thing eat the pudding is I like a politician who is able to say - " we got it wrong" or " I made a mistake" Swinson is unable to do this this is why for me the lib dems remain unvotable
grahamt1980
Subscriber
Actually surely the best resolution for all sides is that as sinn fein feel so strongly they should turn up for a few weeks to nail the government make sure no deal cannot happen then they can do what they like again
Could you imagine how the DUPs heads would all explode !
Actually surely the best resolution for all sides is that as sinn fein feel so strongly they should turn up for a few weeks to nail the government
That would be absolutely hilarious!
If I were them I'd do it just for the shits and gigs.. "hi guys! Remember us?!"
The other thing eat the pudding is I like a politician who is able to say – ” we got it wrong” or ” I made a mistake” Swinson is unable to do this this is why for me the lib dems remain unvotable
Whilst I don't disagree with the first part of that, going "yeah, sorry, we screwed up" is hardly a common event amongst politicians is it? Seems somewhat bizarre to single out one particular person / party for that.
Somewhat ironically, the only MP I can remember doing that in recent years in Nick Clegg.
Hang on wasn’t everyone ridiculing Corbyn a few months ago for calling a ‘pointless’ VONC which he couldn’t win?
I don’t remember, but his timing can be misguided twice. When you have Tory ministers resigning to call a vote, and it is the last chance to stop a Johnson No Deal government from taking over, and a summer recess is upon us meaning no more votes will be possible before it is too late to have a general election before a No Deal Brexit… that might not have been a open goal, but it sure looked like the best chance so far, and probably the last good one… if you want to both stop No Deal Brexit and change the government that is. I suspect he only wants the second though, don’t you?
If nothing else, Labour rebels voting in a Johnson No Deal government would have focused minds on the choices our current MPs have before them. Perhaps that was what Corbyn was avoiding.
A tory openly considering defecting to the Liberal Democrats
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-defection-lib-dems-brexit-boris-johnson-majority-phillip-lee-a9030576.html
Francoise does it again.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/mark-francois-tory-rebels-vow-to-block-brexit-deal-even-without-backstop
Should we feign surprise?
Give ‘em any ground, and they just want more. They want the damage, so why would they accept any agreement that seeks to reduce it?