martinhutch - MemberYou can't help but think that the reason the sectoral reports are not available is because they make for unpalatable reading and have been sent back for a rewrite or quietly shoved in a cupboard somewhere. The longer their publication is delayed, the further we will be down the track towards the leave date, and the less time the message they carry will have to fuel public sentiment against Brexit.
Posted 7 minutes ago #
I can hear the reassuring thwack of a hammer hitting the head of a nail square-on.
The Tories are trying to get this so far down the road that it is irreversible before the truth comes out about what a catastrophe this will cause.
In that very real sense, the Tories are conducting an assault on democracy - one that Mao and Stalin would recognise immediately.
Don't think I've ever been as dispirited as I am at the moment, PMQ's for all it's carnival of barnyard noises is supposed to hold May to account. Corbyn won't really go for her on Brexit for obvious reasons, and she gets away with bland non-statements about talks making "very good progress" really!?! Not even the most brexity of brexiteers thinks that surely? The Tories seem utterly complacent about the fact that this could all end very very badly indeed. All of a sudden talks about Ireland are back-burner... when Ireland and the EU have made it plain that this has to be resolved now using words that everyone has agreed to...Now Davis has been forced to admit that after saying he's done his homework, it turns out he was lying...
My ****ing dead dog could make a better fist of this than they seem to be
Will Davis lose his pension if he's found guilty of lying to parliament? If he was a police officer he would - a quick google finds officers losing pensions for leaking information late alone an offence that equates to perjury.
A "quantitative economic forecast of outcome" does not exist, he said. "That is not there. We have not done that. What is there is the size of the industry, the employment and so on."
So, someone spent a couple of hours on google searching terms like 'size of UK car industry'.
DD won't be held to account. None of them will. Apart from the rabid minority, Parliament just want Brexit done and dusted and its impact really doesn't matter to them. There will still be a Parliament so they will all have their careers intact.
kimbers - MemberBeen busy but has Davis just admitted to lying to parliament & ppublic about having done any impact assessments?
Yes.
We did our own impact reports!! Like most businesses. Never rely on politicians
I work for a sme of 3 dozen people. We have neither expertise or capacity to do our own reports. Like I suspect 1000's of similar businesses. Instead we were relying on our elected government to do their ****ing jobs, make information available, and you know.....assist the smal businesses that keep this country afloat.
Obvs, we haven't relied entirely on DD's stewardship, we have also leant on the industry association, and others. Summary, it's a **** up of epic proportions. But the government won't take heed of that advice either, so what's the point?
Good to see the DM are still talking up Brexit:
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Hammond says there have been discussions about Brexit, but not a specific one about the end state.
So the idiots don't even know where they want to end up
There is no plan.
Not only that, it is impossible to formulate a plan that all key ministers could agree to.
Never mind the DUP. Or enough Conservative MPs.
So, keep moving "forwards", without a destination.
We know where we are Leaving from, that is all they can say without uncovering irreconcilable differences.
Cancelling the journey should still be an option open to the UK as a whole.
If only the Labour Party would back giving that choice to the people of the UK. Doubt it can with Corbyn in charge.
Wikipedia is staying current:
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Speaking of reading quality newspapers, this from today's Metro:
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You tell 'em Irene! And whilst they are at it: pick one bloody religion and stick to it!
😆
so has this been done?
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/935437491691278337
basically: [img] 
:large[/img]
=DD contempt of parliament
So the idiots don't even know where they want to end up
I guess that does mean they will be able to claim that they didnt fail to meet their objectives.
I think Irene should go and take some history lessons.
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/irish-history
[i]so has this been done? [/i]
yes 🙂
thought so 😳
I knew the tories were both mendacious and incompetent but the events of the last couple of days show the depths they have now plumbed.
The decision that " respecting the referendum" meant a hard brexit with no place for the 4 freedoms or the ECJ was taken by May and Nick Timothy alone with no consultation with anyone.
Davies has lied about the impact assessments in contempt of parliament. there are no impact assessments so May and co don't actually know what the effects of their decisions would be
May and co have not decided where their endpoint is ie what their favoured outcome is
May was making up policy on the hoof over the weekend without either consulting cabinet or the DUP about the deal she was offering thus it collapsed
There is no possible deal in any form that will satisfy the EU, the DUP, and not divide the cabinet
The rabids are controlling the process.
May - I know you have a strong sense of duty which is why you are attempting to manage this clusterfart but for the good of the country and yourself resign and let us get some non delusional and vaguely competent people in
Where does a no deal leave Ireland?
divided with a hard border. But the UKs fault not the EUs or the Rebublics
More mendaciuty / incompetence
(Hammond in parliament today)But he says the UK will not walk away from its obligations. Where it has a legal obligation to pay money, it will pay that money.
The draft agreement that failed on Monday
offer is “conditional on an overall agreement which takes into account the framework for a future relationship and an early agreement on transition,”
Now both these things cannot be true.
Wow, just reading Hammond’s answer to the question as to whether the cabinet are aligned on what Brexit actually means....
I would not be surprised to see either a leadership challenge or a government collapse on the back of all of this.
It deserves to collapse frankly.
It's getting completely surreal. Just sickened by it all now.
I think Davis gets the support of the rest of government for now for the simple reason that anyone who would take that job now would be almost by definition unsuitable.
In any normal situation he’d have to go.
Has he lied to parliament? Maybe, maybe not.
Has he misled parliament? Yes.
You’re out of here David.
Where's THM when we all need reassurance that it's going brilliantly and the tories know what they are doing?
I was hoping for Jamba.
Sorry Jamba, I don’t mean to bait you, but today has been typical Brexyism.
Where's THM
Doing some impact assessments.
Guys THM suggested Davis should walk a page or two ago.
Don’t portray him as supporting this debacle unless he actually comes out and does so.
Did he pay for your “p” igm?
😉
Etc.
I work in Pharmacy in the NHS and just on my way back from a meeting in London where one of the things discussed was future challenges. There is real concern about drug availability and cost post brexit. Apparently there’s suggestions from drug companies that post brexit if the UK has its own regulatory system to comply with outside of the EMA, plus the NICE process, there’s a real possibility that the UK market won’t be commercially attractive enough to bother with (we’re about 4% of the global market). It could be that access to many drugs is increasingly limited and we will rely on increasing amounts of parallel imports with a much less robust supply chain. They’re forecasting potential major supply issues.
Ironically the sections of the population who voted brexit eg older people are most likely to be taking these drugs! Killed off by their own brexit.
I guess it’s the sort of thing an impact assessment might have thrown up.
Step away from the noise then!
By Jan we will be on to trade. Bill (tick), Ireland (tick) etc
Kelvin - you have been reading!! Joking apart ;- the EU briefing docs are very interesting as are our own versions - hence a bit lost on why there is so much fuss as many studies are available. But you are correct they are often clearer than our version on why this is a lose:lose. Which is one reason why I am more optimistic that the grown ups will end up with a compromise. Forget all the who losses more BS. The clever people are focused on minimising the damage all round.
X post on the calls above 😉 !!
IGM. Not sure I did say that about DD - the incompetent one not the sneering one 😉 tbc
Which is one reason why I am more optimistic that the grown ups will end up with a compromise
Out of curiosity what do you think is going to happen when all the children look at that compromise and realise that wasnt what they were promised?
Forget all the who losses more BS.
Stop making BS up then. Although I would love to see how you think this isnt going to work without some losses on one side or both.
igm - MemberDon’t portray him as supporting this debacle unless he actually comes out and does so.
He has said its all going fine, the adults behind the scenes are making a deal, there will be no problems and no damage to the UK.
All utter nonsense he needs to be called out on
Those impact assessments in full...
Lost for words. Our company already has its own impact assessments and a group trying to sort out implications for the enormous number of EU workers.
By [s]October[/s] [s]November[/s] [s]Christmas[/s] Jan we will be on to trade. Bill (tick), Ireland (tick) etc
I have no doubt that some very clever people on both sides are trying to minimise harms.
I have less confidence that their skills and intelligence will have anywhere near enough influence on the shower of eejits who are currently driving* the process (from our side).
*loose term. More like those baby rides at the fair where the cars have a fake steering wheel allowing the wide-eyed occupant to act like Mr Toad and make 'poop poop' noises without any control over direction or speed.
@THM
With the very greatest of respect:
Would you agree that David Davis has misled both the public and parliament over the so called impact assessments?
Are you not in the slightest bit nervous that the government has attempted to bypass parliament more than once and that the Prime Minister does not appear to have briefed her cabinet partners and defacto coalition partners before attempting to strike agreements?
Guys THM suggested Davis should walk a page or two ago.
I was actually more concerned with Hammond saying that the cabinet hadn't even started to discuss where they were hoping to go with Brexit.
Apologies THM - that was how I read this statement
teamhurtmore - Member
not sure of exact protocol tbh but certainly should lose position - BTW I am not a DD fan at all. Never have been.
I have misinterpreted you before and I will probably do again, but what did that mean?
The clever people are focused on minimising the damage all round.
Who are these clever people behind the scenes doing the negotiating?
What have they negotiated so far?
How are you getting this information?
And while you are at it can I have Friday's lottery numbers.
Punch up in a Parliament bar judging from a report in the Guardian.
[edit] Ah, last night apparently. Two men aged 57 and 63 respectively.
If parliamentarians then that rules out anyone from UKIP this time.
^ They might not be able to organise a piss-up in a brewery but at least there's one thing they can do!
Aged 57 and 64.
Thats the grownups at work.
