[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

and see also

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/06/10/dont-blame-the-eu-for-the-decline-in-some-british-fishing-ports/

apparently UK is 2nd largest fleet in EU, but 5th biggest employer, thanks to modern ships, profits in the UK fishing industry growing year on year and are the highest across the EU, as are profit margins. The level of investment in the industry, is also growing and is the highest across the EU.

its almost as if the decline of the british fishing industry has more to do with changes in technology than in the EU

just wait till the sea is full of robot trawlers, isnt that the future Hammond has for us all?

wonder if theyll still get this 25m investment in the port from the EU?

http://humberbusiness.com/news/european-funding-boost-for-the-seafood/story-525-detail/story

Didn't that awful first Star Wars movie start with a trade war, hmmmm?

52% of us are delighted and a decent chunk of the 48% have accept d the result and are getting on with making the best of it.

It does seem odd that if Brexit is going to be so awesome, then the impact assessments would have been readily available. Apparently what is available is heavily redacted and subject to heavy security procedures in order for MPs to view.

Also, +1 for fixing the disaster that is universal credit. But that’s for another thread.

Commitee meeting:

[i]Benn: So the govt has not undertaken any impact assessments on individual sectors of leaving the EU?

Davis: No.[/i]

Jesus H Christ what have they been doing?

[edit] some more detail:

[i]Benn: Has the Government done impact assessments on leaving the EU for individual sectors?
Davis: not in sectors..theres no systematic impact assessments Benn: Automotive?
Davis: No
Benn: Aerospace?
Davis: No. No on all of them[/i]

David Davis: ‘Just because you use the word impact doesn’t make it an impact assessment’.

Indeed. [url= https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/11/david-davis-boasted-his-brexit-impact-analysis-papers-now-he-wishes-they ]Seema Malhorta (MP and member of the Brexit Select Committee) writing in the New Statesman last week[/url]:

For months, Brexit Secretary David Davis boasted that his department had compiled analyses of the impact of Brexit on 58 sectors of the economy. For months, MPs like me called on him to publish them, to be straight with the public about what Brexit will mean for their lives. For months, he refused.
...
Finally, the Department for Exiting the European Union released a list of the sectors they had analysed. Covering everything from aerospace to broadcasting, telecommunications to road haulage
...
It's striking that in June this year, the Secretary of State said on the Marr Show that “we’ve got 50, nearly 60 sector analyses done”. His department confirmed in September in response to my freedom of information request that the studies were completed. In October, the Secretary of State not only confirmed they had been completed, but that they were in “excruciating detail” and that the Prime Minister had seen the summaries.

Since 1 November, ministers have been saying these same analyses don’t exist.

Absolutely pathetic and a basic contempt for the parliamentary sovereignty and democracy that they claim to be defending.

If this was a normal government Davis would have no choice but to resign....

So what odds on him staying and not being fired?

Bluntly, should be going to jail.

They've lied and lied and lied about these studies.

Regardless of their now claiming they would have been useless they've spend a year reassuring people all would be well on the basis of non-existent evidence they chose not to try and collect.

Bunch of useless ****ing tossers trying to bluff their way to some uncertain future they think will benefit them politically and their friends economically. Arseholes.

Did anyone else read about the slightly ambitious 'terror plot against May' revealed in the papers today and think that maybe someone needed something to keep Brexishambles off the front page?

I think with her shitshow its highly plausible someone wanted her knocked off. Not quite sure its a brexit distraction.

Regardless of how people voted is this how they would expect any UK government to conduct itself during the planning and execution of an EU exit?

There’s definitely a case for contempt of parliament.

So where are these fing reports?

Why won't a Brexiteer come along & explain why 58 (FIFTY FING EIGHT!!!) reports are now being withheld??

Surely theres some good news in there somewhere?.....

After all, aren't we the ones holding all the cards & we should just walk away a la IDS if the EU won't play ball?!

No, the truth is it's all BS & the electorate have been played by a minority of disingenuous, egotistical, RW gits who are only looking after their own bank balance.

The Tories are a DISGRACE.

FFS - have you listened to DD's delivery of that bullshit … ?!? Is he for real?!?

All the promises that the government has made about secotr analysis since June 2016. A lie and a sham. All of it. Not once but repeatedly by different ministers. A complete con trick.

[url= http://jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-early-history-of-the-58-brexit-sector-analyses/ ]http://jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-early-history-of-the-58-brexit-sector-analyses/[/url]

I read somewhere that sources close to DD suggest he’s planning on quitting before March 2019. If he hasn’t commissioned reports to assess the impact of Brexit then it is as David Lammy says a gross dereliction of duty. If he has commissioned reports which are so heavily redacted that they’re merely detailing the current status quo, then there’s a suggestion that ministers have deliberately misled Parliament.

People have been tried in a criminal court for less.

We did have them, but my dog ate them. And then a big boy took them and ran away. Honest miss.

Withholding information? There seems to be something of a pattern emerging...

[i]Party leader, Arlene Foster, revealed that she had been asking the government for the wording of text relating to the Irish border for five weeks. She said it was a “big shock” when the document landed on Monday morning because “we realised there was no way we could sign up to that text”.[/i]

What makes this even more ridiculous is that they're now trying to 'negotiate' with the DUP over this, so they can get a breakthrough before the end of the week. As exercises in futility go, this will take some beating. If you asked the DUP for one red line that they absolutely, positively, definitely will not cross, the answer you'd get is pretty much what May is 'negotiating' for them to sign up too

She's no ****ing chance!!! The truly incredible thing is that she can't even see that, and is wasting yet more valuable time on something that is simply never going to happen!

Did anyone else read about the slightly ambitious 'terror plot against May' revealed in the papers today

They clearly hadnt thought it through. Surely leaving her in place is far more damaging.

Bit like late in WW2 the allies decided against trying to assassinate Hitler on the grounds someone more competent might take over.

Regardless of how people voted is this how they would expect any UK government to conduct itself during the planning and execution of an EU exit?

Maybe I should have put 'want' not 'expect' - that was more what I meant 🙂

Oh and;

[i]Davis: I don’t know how long existing full sectoral reports are. I don’t want to be rude about my own department. First round of reports weren’t all that good...[/i]

So even if they had been done they'd have been rubbish.

It's pretty much going as I expected.

Yep, i am sure the usual Tory apologists will pop up and claim nothing to see here.

Regardless of how people voted is this how they would expect any UK government to conduct itself during the planning and execution of an EU exit?

yes, it's one reason I voted remain.

I think with her shitshow its highly plausible someone wanted her knocked off. Not quite sure its a brexit distraction.

Regardless of how people voted is this how they would expect any UK government to conduct itself during the planning and execution of an EU exit?

No. It was always going to be messy but the sheer incompetence of this government has taken me by surprise.

A p1ss up in a brewery would be beyond the Tories abilities....

I've never known anything like it!

Regardless of whether you're for or against Brexit, surely this is time for a vote of no confidence in the current government?

Regardless of whether you're for or against Brexit, surely this is time for a vote of no confidence in the current government?

I thought the quotes above were made up.
They are not. ****ing hell.
What deals are they going to manage with the Chinese?

Have you seen the state of the opposition?

To not be 20+ points ahead of this shower in the polls takes some serious doing!

That is the power of the press.

Well, when you've a Labour Party who want to bring back Galloway - then it's no surprise that folks are running scared of them..

[img] [/img]

Bit like late in WW2 the allies decided against trying to assassinate Hitler on the grounds someone more competent might take over

😆

I had to laugh at this. Hysterical laughter, mind but still.

Apparantly no point looking into the effects on industry (despite claiming that was the ongoing work of his department) of any form of Brexit, because they would all result in a [b]"paradigm shift"[/b]. The man is both a liar [b]and[/b] intelligently ill equipped for his role. Stil, he's fully beind "the cause", and that's all that matters to supporters of said cause. DD for PM? Or send him back to Tate&Lyle?

Yep, i am sure the usual Tory apologists will pop up and claim nothing to see here.

I'd have agreed with the idea that Labour would make even more of a hash of this process than the Conservatives earlier in the year… but like most people, I'm well past that point now. I don't want a Labour government, but they are the only available alternative given the ticking clock we're up against now. The current government needs replacing.

The impobable but sensible third way : Time for MPs from multiple parties to come forward and form a government with the aim of getting us through the two years ahead of us? These are not normal times… we have to cope with a "paradigm shift", after all.

Thing is if everyone *expected* a complete ****ing shambles of a brexit process why the hell did they vote for it?

A triumph of hope over experience?

I'm encouraged at the suggestion by Sir Keir Starmer that we retain off the shelf Single Market and Customs Union access. So much so in fact, that I have emailed him to express my support, whilst copying in my own MP who happens to have been a prominent remainer. The latter is probably too busy fwapping like a safari park chimp over internet grot to respond, though.

We won;t get customs union and single market without free movement and complete regulatory alignment.

So why are we leaving?

Its the incompetence and outright lies that get me. It would be bad enough if they were competent and truthful but Davies outright lies astound me.

For example - he denied in parliament today that there would be any impact on the NHS. 96% loss in EU nurses coming to work in thee NHS is a huge loss. IIRC around 40 000 nurses short because of brexit and we haven't even left yet.

I have been a political geek for 45 years and have never seen anything like this for a toxic mix of hubris, incompetence and lying

wwaswas - Member

We won;t get customs union and single market without free movement and complete regulatory alignment.

So why are we leaving?

Because of a moral panic whipped up by a large section of the press over 20 years and the actions of vested interests all manipulating public opinion

It's obvious that our reasons for leaving the EU have less to do with the EU per se than nefarious ambition of certain politicians.

The rank dishonesty is startling, in any other age these individuals would be suspended pending an investigation, they're bringing parliament into disrepute.

I say again, it's more about inflicting sufficient shock to our economy and society to restructure it on the cheap in the way that those on the political fringes (especially on the right) wish to see it.

[i]Because of a moral panic whipped up by a large section of the press over 20 years and the actions of vested interests all manipulating public opinion [/i]

It was in the way of being a rhetorical question 😉