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Don’t worry. There will be a completely contradictory statement along shortly confirming their commitment to honour the result of the referendum
There's a brewing turf war within the Labour Party - the shock of discovering that the opposition is polling at 18% (with a GE potentially six months away) has rattled a great many cages. Corbyn cannot count on young people to vote for him given his very public flip-flopping and he's lost the support of practically everyone else.
Excellent - thanks for the link Princejohn 🙂
Not really. Proportionally China will be dwarfing everyone and everything, but in numbers, English and Spanish are still growing.
Sure. But China is right at the start of a a age of logarithmic growth in people learning Mandarin. It will likely never totally supplant English, but other languages are going to become competitors with the rise of Asia and Brexit. Maybe not in the short term but definitely the long term.
Out of the last 6 shows I watched on Netflix, three were in English, 1 was in Japanese, 1 was in Korean and 1 was in German. English cultural supremacy is no longer a given, the quicker we wake up to that as a nation the better we will be able to cope with it physically and psychologically.
other languages are going to become competitors with the rise of Asia
But there is an element of critical mass. If lots of people already speak English, then new learners will continue to prioritise it. A Japanese schoolkid learning Mandarin will only be able to go and work in China, however as it stands there is unlikely to be many job opportunities.
I'm not attempting to assert any sort of superiority here. English isn't widely spoken because the Anglophone world is better - it's just logical and practical for the world to gravitate towards the same second language and due to historical chance, it's English. They don't learn English to talk to us, they learn it to talk to everyone else.
It's also not really about cultural supremacy either because for anything other than small markets films and TV get dubbed, and in most places they are subtitled. I'm guessing, Rayban, that you don't speak German, Korean and Japanese and yet you still enjoyed the shows I hope.
The man is an idiot, no? It just means that the extension is ended early if we don't elect MEPs in time (but we have) and we haven't ratified the WA (we haven't, but as we've elected MEPs, that's fine).
So… if we failed to elect MEPs, but instead ratified the WA, we'd still have the entirety of the extension period to get ready to leave at the end of it. If however we both failed to elect MEPs, and to ratify the WA, the extension would have cut off early at the end of May.
Anyway, this bit should be hammered home by journalists when they get to interview Johnson, Hunt or Corbyn…
This extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. Any unilateral commitment, statement or other act by the United Kingdom should be compatible with the letter and the spirit of the Withdrawal Agreement, and must not hamper its implementation. Such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship.
It’s considered that we have reached peak English, whilst the amount of people who are learning Mandarin as a foreign language has jumped from 30 million in 2004 to over 100 million today.
So we haven’t even got to peaking Mandarin yet?
So we haven’t even got to peaking Mandarin yet?
Just ”ducked” under I believe
Globally are going into big trading bloks.
USA, Russia, China, EU.. India maybe?
Anyone with any sense can see this.
For a pissy little country the UK to go it alone.. A very small fish in a very big shark tank.
On the language front it's also a numbers game. Yes we have a poor attitude to langues but also there is less of a obvious 1st choice of second language to learn. French is pushed in school, good for France and some African States that few will go to. Spanish? Widely spoken but in a part of the world a long was away. Mandarin is now becoming a logical choice but it's tough choice. My language skills are poor and I regret that but I am not sure what would be a good language to learn. Given hindsight as I work in engineering it would probably be German but that still is only a return of two countrys.
Mandarin is now becoming a logical choice
Really? How many job opportunities have you seen come up in China? How many professional interactions? I've had a few, and they've spoken English but of course we work for a US company so our corporate language is English. As for jobs, they are quite protectionist to put it mildly.
Mandarin may be spoken by the most people, but only really in China, and it's bloody hard, Most widely spoken (most countries) are probably English and Spanish because they're easy to learn by comparison, and arguably more useful.
As for jobs, they are quite protectionist to put it mildly
This proves my point is hard for a native English speaker to make an obvious choice as to which second be language they should choose! I say mandarin only on a numbers front involved in business.
Thinking some more I think for first language English speakers the second language is actually very industry related and this is the problem.
Politics? Possibly French but what with Brexit maybe less so. Engineering? Maybe German but also maybe russian, again depending on area of engineering.
To have a good chance to need to learn these languages when young but this is well before you have any idea about jobs!
Has there ever been a more embarrassing week to be English? Surely, even by the standards of the rolling car crash that Brexit is, the antics of Anne Widdecombe and Farage in Brussels, combined with the fantasy politics of the Tory leadership campaign, have brought us to a new low?
It's just a disaster. We're an international laughing stock. A beacon of small-minded bigotry and insular xenophobia. And there's no end in sight
Most widely spoken (most countries) are probably English and Spanish
Outside souther / Latin America Spanish is not widely spoken though, and for many their interactions are more likely to be Europe based. It's just not an easy choice.
It does bef the question why the obsession with teaching children french when everyone I know who knows both French and Spanish says Spanish is easier?
Link to what happened Bonners please? I am working away and have missed loads of news
Prepare to cringe....
Face palm.
Prepare to cringe….
A bit like those celebrities, sportspersons, politicians etc openly showing their disapproval of certain, authority, system or ideology. Nothing wrong with that? 😀
It looks like both sides of the camp are upping their disapproval on each other now.
The trend will continue for sometime to come so plenty of entertainment to come ... 😂
Who says politics are dull? 😆
Good on Ann Widdecombe to provide some entertainment.
P/s: at least they stood up while others simply sat there watching ... the question is who is right? Stand with the back being disrespectful or sitting down?
Outside souther / Latin America Spanish is not widely spoken though
there are more Spanish speakers in the USA than Spain for a starter.
the question is who is right?
the person who has the opposing view to yours will be right.
But at the time your next PM is being chosen in a lawless process.
Some people got 2 ballots papers but electoral commission is powerless.
You are well and truly ****ed over.
The way I see it if they don't want to be there they can stand aside and let someone else do it.
the person who has the opposing view to yours will be right.
🤔
Looks like big John McD has got the wrong end of the stick (like most of the rest of us) and is still calling for Corbyn to move to the position of backing a referendum if Labour get into government. Someone send our boys around to set him straight, and save him the time and effort, please.
May I take a moment to remind forumites that the killfile is an extremely effective way of minimising nonsensical posts and filtering out background noise.
There will not be a second referendum under any circumstances while Corbyn is at the helm of the labour party, no matter the lipservice he pays to it. Even formerly loyal fellow travellers like John McDonnell can see that now.
There was a pretty spot on analysis of this in yesterdays Observer by Will Hutton
Labour Remainers must try to seize control before the party becomes a historical footnote
Jeremy Corbyn and the powerful coterie around him do not comprehend the new politics, resisting the unacceptable “Blairite” message that Labour has to be a Remain party. The concerns of the up to 30 Labour MPs in Leave-voting constituencies have offered them the pretext for indulging their own time-warped anti-EU prejudices
Regarding language learning - I have never understood why we wait until secondary school before we start to learn. Surely it'd be better at primary school while we are still learning English?
Once again - labour policy is for a second referendum in all circumstances and has been for a while. The argument now is should labour back remain or allow an open vote. A difficult choice given the split in the party.
Why you two keep on insisting black is white is beyond me. Its utterly ridiculous Even the Guardian which hates labour and corbyn accepts this now.
Its been like this since the euro vote.
Earlier this year, in response to fears it was losing support to pro-remain parties such as the Liberal Democrats, Labour shifted its Brexit stance and agreed that any Brexit deal passed by parliament should be put to the people in a second referendum.
From the very article Binners quotes I think - certainly in todays gaurdian
So while we all try & decipher labours Brexit policy.
Lynton Crosby's pet journo Oakshot has leaked diplomatic cables saying our Ambassador thinks Trump is a disaster, all because our ambassador wasn't brexity enough for the swivel eyed...
No doubt farage still wants the job, a scary thought. https://twitter.com/SophiaCannon/status/1147445844968443904?s=19
Oh, TJ's back. Yes, after cross party talks went nowhere, the position moved to any deal passed in the current parliament, with the Tories in government, will result in Labour "demanding" a referendum. Now, if we get a Labour government, would we get a referendum with a "Remain a member of the EU" option? Big names in the party, who otherwise are fully behind Corbyn, are now pushing for this in public, rather than in private, out of frustration. Are they just pushing against an open door?
Once again – labour policy is for a second referendum in all circumstances and has been for a while.
Would you like a gold-plated unicorn TJ? It is now my policy to most definitely deliver you a gold-plated unicorn.
One day. I will... honest
Yes we would Kelvin - thats the policy.
I stopped coming onto this thread because of the utter nonsense you and Binners keep on quoting
Labour policy is unequivocally for a second referendum in all circumstances with leave and remain options
Why you and Binners still keep on denying this despite multiple announcements of it and its acceptance across the political commentary is utterly ridiculous.
Labour policy is unequivocally for a second referendum in all circumstances with leave and remain options
Except, it isn't… and I'll listen to all the key Labour politicians pushing for it to become that, rather than you, for obvious reasons.
…keep on denying this despite multiple announcements of it and its acceptance across the political commentary is utterly ridiculous.
The group now demanding that the party shift to a position of backing a referendum with remain on the ballot paper, no ifs, no buts, is far from restricted to Jeremy Corbyn’s internal rightwing opponents. It includes, in the shadow cabinet, longtime allies and leftist stalwarts John McDonnell and Diane Abbott as well as “soft left” members such as Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry. It takes in the pro-Corbyn Scottish and Welsh Labour leaderships, and the London mayoralty; key unions, such as Unison and the GMB; and Labour members, over half of whom didn’t vote for their own party in the European elections according to YouGov – which accurately predicted the results of the first and second leadership elections.
Owen Jones is just one example… we've wasted pages on this… and I don't think we should bother wasting any more time on links, quotes or responses.
As you seem to be unquestioningly buying the Corbyn narrative that he will definitely deliver a second referendum* TJ, could I put you in touch with my Nigerian uncle Abegunde, who presently has a range of investment opportunities for you to take advantage off.
He will make you a very rich man, entirely risk free. It would simply involve him being allowed temporary access to your bank accounts
* terms and conditions apply
BBC website 7th July
Labour should 'get on with' changing its Brexit policy to support a second referendum, the shadow chancellor has told the BBC.
John McDonnell said Jeremy Corbyn was "rightfully" trying to build consensus, but added the party needed to reach a position "sooner rather than later".
"I want to campaign for Remain," he said.
TJ, its nowhere near as clearcut as you claim. If McDonnell is pushing for clarity, how can you possibly argue that it is already clear?
Labour policy is unequivocally for a second referendum in all circumstances with leave and remain options
So why are
longtime allies and leftist stalwarts John McDonnell and Diane Abbott as well as “soft left” members such as Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry, pro-Corbyn Scottish and Welsh Labour leaderships, and the London mayoralty; key unions, such as Unison and the GMB; and Labour members, over half of whom didn’t vote for their own party in the European elections according to YouGov,
still calling for a straight Remain option on any Labour backed referendum? They're all wrong and missed the memo that you alone received? Seriously? I asked you over a week ago for a link to any statement assuring of a Remain option on a ballot. I'm still waiting.
BBC website 7th July
Not that small insignificant part of the "political commentary", just across the rest of it… stop being "utterly ridiculous".
I’m still waiting.
He's replied. I think that's all you'll get.
From the very article Binners quotes I think
Sadly, I searched the article posted by Binners, and those words were not in there. Do you have a link TJ? I'd be interested to read the words in context, and to know who they are from, and if they think it applies to the next parliament and would include a option to Remain an EU member.
i was about to post something directed to TJ, but thought I'd quickly look it up. I found some stuff that kind of supports his position. And then a lot that doesn't! These are a few of the stories I've dug up. I put them in chronological order:
<br><br>
March 2019 - Labour imposes a whip to support a vote on a 2nd referendum
...now if you stop here, you can perhaps argue that Labour has a coherent position. But...
<br><br>
March 2019 - ...but several shadow ministers resign in protest, and about 45 Labour MPs rebel
April 2019 - Labour's EU election position settled as "if we can’t get the necessary changes to the government’s deal, or a general election, to back the option of a public vote”
May 2019 - Labour Deputy Leader: "the party cannot go into a general election without a clear position on a second referendum and a special conference may be needed to decide a Brexit policy"
June 2019 - "Labour Shadow Minister for International Trade denies second referendum is official Brexit policy"
July 2019 - "Labour should 'get on with' changing its Brexit policy to support a second referendum, the shadow chancellor has told the BBC."
Today - Labour's current manifesto: "Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first."
You just can't argue that this is a clear or coherent position. IMO Corbyn himself is tentatively in favour of a 2nd ref, but his party are fighting like cats and dogs and he can't persuade them that it's a good idea. And I don't think he'll be able to.
TJ, Labour's position is so clear cut that even those taking an active interest are struggling to make sense of it, or at least the writing here suggests that there are at least two interpretations that people subscribe to. Let's say you're correct, just for argument's sake, do you think the average man or woman in the street will be be clear on their position?
I think we can see the net effect on their performance in recent elections and polling...
The argument now is should labour back remain or allow an open vote
Where has Corbyn said Labour would do either? Everything points to Labour (with Corbyn as leader) pushing for a Brexit option on a 2nd referendum. Hence why senior people in his party are trying to get clarity (and no doubt push him into one of the choices you've given if they can).
I think the only thing that is clear is that Jeremy and his Union/Momentum chums don't want to deal with Brexit.
This is quite understandable IMO, as EU membership would probably prevent re-nationalisation of large swathes of British industry. However, I feel Jeremy's strategy of not coming out with a firm commitment of either Leave or Remain is backfiring spectacularly.
Which begs the question, how does Jeremy/Momentum/Unions persuade the lost voters to return? Or are Labour now utterly doomed for a decade or more?
IMO Corbyn himself is tentatively in favour of a 2nd ref, but his party are fighting like cats and dogs and he can’t persuade them that it’s a good idea. And I don’t think he’ll be able to.
Agree. The party is almost irreparably split, and he has the impossible task of trying to find consensus to hold it together. And without wanting to attract more monty python pics, we also need to consider the impact of the utilisation of the brexit issue by Corbyn's enemies to unseat him rather than working to find a way through. I'll admit they've played a blinder, and looks like they may be successful. It won't happen before a new election though, so the end result of the 4 year battle for control of the labour party will be continued Tory govt, probably driving a no-deal brexit.
This is quite understandable IMO, as EU membership would probably prevent re-nationalisation of large swathes of British industry.
This was one of the reasons the Lexiteers around Corbyn gave for their inherent dislike of the EU. However, you won't have heard anyone say it for a while as it was quickly debunked as being complete and utter bollocks
Agree. The party is almost irreparably split
It really isn't. The hardcore Lexiteers in the party are a tiny minority, numbering maybe 26 MPs. Unfortunately, one of them is presently occasionally masquerading as the party leader, when not hiding in his allotment shed
And without wanting to attract more monty python pics, we also need to consider the impact of the utilisation of the brexit issue by Corbyn’s enemies to unseat him rather than working to find a way through.
What about Corbyn's allies in the shadow cabinet calling for a Brexit policy that the party can get behind? Those that think the frustration with the leadership of the party as regards Brexit is all about "enemies of Corbyn" need to wake up.
And when I asked what this "way through" or "compromise position" looks like, you stayed silent. If you think Labour can offer a Brexit that will be appealing to more than a small section of the voting public… then let's hear it… and then we can compare it to the Labour whipping of the past three years.
Damn, he drew me in… better stop now before we disappear down the same pointless rabbit hole…
Those that think the frustration with the leadership of the party is all about “enemies of Corbyn” need to wake up.
I didn't say that. But you can't deny that the same people who tried to get rid of Corbyn in 2016 (Angela Eagle was on Sky News this morning coincidentally) are using brexit to get to him how. I don't blame them for it, it makes sense if you're in that camp. But lets not pretend their motivations are pure. Those who want to remain are being f**** over by these people as much as everyone else because it will result in a no deal Boris driven brexit. It's not just the tories who put their own ambition and interests above those of the country.
But you can’t deny that the same people who tried to get rid of Corbyn in 2016 (Angela Eagle was on Sky News this morning coincidentally) are using brexit to get to him how.
Maybe, and I admit I'm going out on a limb here.... they just now all want to get shut of him now because the recent local and EU election results, and subsequent polling, have shown that with the electorate he's about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit, and the likelihood of him delivering a Labour government are about the same as the likelihood of me giving birth to triplets.
Just a thought....
So, Dazh, what policy should the Labour Party have, as regards Brexit, in your opinion? And has/is/will Corbyn stood/standing/stand in the way of the party adopting it?
Labour policy is unequivocally for a second referendum in all circumstances with leave and remain options
Gotta stop you there, TJ. I've not been following Shrodinger's Labour too closely because whilst you and Binners have spent the last hundred pages arguing that two diametrically opposite and mutually exclusive things are perfectly clear, to my mind Labour is an irrelevant distraction. However, I do know that Corbyn did not mention a referendum "with leave and remain options," rather that any referendum would have options for leave and remain voters. That's a subtle but potentially very very important difference.
The quotes I have given are perfectly clear. Labour policy is 100% second referendum on any deal. Multiple quotes from multiple sources stating this.
The question has moved on to "should labour back remain"
Why you guys keep inventing falshoods I do not know.
It’s fake news TJ! Whipped up by a kabal plotting against our one true leader. Sad.
And when I asked what this “way through” or “compromise position” looks like, you stayed silent.
?
I think I've been pretty open on here that I would accept a Norway style arrangement if it resolves the issue in the interests of moving on and avoiding further polarisation. Wasn't aware I had to repeat that again.
It's an interesting exercise in whataboutery though to wonder what different a non-Corbynite leadership would have done in the various brexit votes. Not a lot I reckon. In fact given their past record in agreeing with moderate tories I reckon there's a better than evens chance they would have voted May's deal through.
Kelvin
Earlier this year, in response to fears it was losing support to pro-remain parties such as the Liberal Democrats, Labour shifted its Brexit stance and agreed that any Brexit deal passed by parliament should be put to the people in a second referendum. But the party has not committed to backing remain if such a referendum were to take place. McDonnell said last month he was arguing the case for Labour to explicitly back remain.
Scotroutes - I gave the link several times.
with that - I am back out.
The quotes I have given are perfectly clear. Labour policy is 100% second referendum on any deal. Multiple quotes from multiple sources stating this.
The question has moved on to “should labour back remain”
You've just dodged the question. Again.
Scotroutes – I gave the link several times.
No. You didn't. Give us a link to a statement from Corbyn/the leadership that any Labour backed referendum will have Remain as an option.
with that – I am back out.
Aye, because you have nothing - NOTHING - to back up your assertion.
It's ironic that this thread should have drifted into the subject of second languages when there are obviously some people on here who don't even understand their native English.
I would accept a Norway style
Labour whipped against that. Years ago. So given that, what should Labour policy be now? And is Corbyn resisting its adoption?
with that – I am back out.
Please come back when it is Labour Policy that a Labour government would hold a referendum including an option to remain in the EU. I can see it happening, eventually, probably too late, possibly requiring a change of leader, and at that point many of us can start voting Labour again… those of us that want to, unlike you.
Another fair assessment of Labour policy, such as it is, under Corbyn by Matthew d"Ancona in todays Guardian
Labour could dominate the centre ground and win. But it doesn’t seem to want to
On Brexit, we cruise towards a no-deal departure on 31 October. In such desperate circumstances, you do not have to be a remainer to conclude that the public should be consulted again in a fresh referendum. Such an offer, made unambiguously and without qualification by Labour, would electrify the political landscape. Like all such decisions, it would bear an element of risk. But that is the essence of statesmanship.
Whether he likes it or not, this is the great opportunity of Corbyn’s leadership: one he did not seek, but with which he is confronted nonetheless. The goal is two miles wide. The goalkeeper lies unconscious on the pitch. The ball is two inches away from the line. And – thus far – Corbyn’s instinct has been to nudge the ball feebly to the left, promising only to consult his members and the unions on the extent to which goal-scoring is consistent with authentic socialism.
what should Labour policy be now?
I've also said in many previous posts that if a Norway style compromise wasn't possible then labour should push for a second referendurum, which they are now doing. I've also said that I've always supported McDonnell's view and still do, so in addition to their existing commitment to a second referendum they should campaign to remain. The primary focus above all should of course be preventing a no deal brexit lead by Boris but that aim seems to have been conceded in favour of a self-defeating culture war.
It's pretty irrelevant though because it's now blindingly obvious that anything labour do will not be enough because the remain camp is now more obsessed with Corbyn and the labour leadership than brexit itself, hence my comments above.
the remain camp is now more obsessed with Corbyn and the labour leadership than brexit itself
Who are the "remain camp", and does it include McDonnell? Abbot? Thornberry? Starmer?
I think you know full well who they are and no it doesn't include McDonnell.
[ Hoey is standing down at the next election. ]
I think you know full well who they are and no it doesn’t include McDonnell.
Does the "remain camp" include all the Labour members who voted for Corbyn to be leader, twice, but think that Labour should, with no further delay, ifs or buts, commit to holding a referendum with a Remain option if Labour get into government, and would themselves campaign to remain in that referendum?
Another fair assessment of Labour policy, such as it is, under Corbyn by Matthew d”Ancona in todays Guardian
Damn thats a surprise. A rightwinger arguing the answer is for Labour to become right wing giving the choice of the right or hard right.
Labour shifted its Brexit stance and agreed that any Brexit deal passed by parliament should be put to the people in a second referendum
But everything so far suggests parliament can't agree a Brexit stance so what actually triggers Labour to call for a second referendum? As it stands the two most likely options are:
1). No deal Brexit on October 31st
2). BoJo government collapses and a GE is triggered
What's this mythical 3rd option of a Brexit deal? The only deal available before 31st October is May's deal but BoJo and Corbyn are both against that.
Corbyn obviously wants option 2 above but even if he wins and has a significant parliamentary majority as PM that still means renegotiating Brexit, that's going to take at least a year and requires the EU not only offer another extension but remove the current clause precluding any renegotiation within the extension period. So does that just leave the option of cancelling A50 and starting it again? I'd rather just vote for a straight Remain party than a party that would still support Brexit and just draw out the whole mess for potentially years more.
arguing the answer is for Labour to become right wing
How would backing a referendum "unambiguously, and without qualification" be a shift to the right?
Yeah citing a D'Ancona article really isn't doing yourself any favours Binners. He can take his opinion and **** off back to the Tory party.
I do sometimes wonder what the point of all the arguing in this thread is, as it's all speculative. Corbyn could come out and explicitly say that Labour will aim for a referendum with Remain as an explicit choice in any circumstance - hell, they could come out as full "Revoke A50" - and it wouldn't matter, because Boris is not going to offer a referendum and there isn't going to be a GE before October 31st. It's all entirely academic, and we're busy shouting at each other and furthering divides on the left of the political spectrum.
[ Granted: if a GE is called, Labour need to sort out their position sharpish. That's a big if and something to consider if/when it happens IMO. ]
EDIT:
I’d rather just vote for a straight Remain party than a party that would still support Brexit and just draw out the whole mess for potentially years more.
Strongly agree. If we somehow get a GE in (say) early October, I'd be more likely to vote for "Revoke and remain" over "Referendum".
That’s a big if and something to consider if/when it happens IMO.
If you wait for a GE to be announced by Boris, before beginning the campaign for it, then you are a political lightweight who shouldn't be allowed to lead your party. He will call it at the last moment, and only once the fighting funds are ready, and/or an arrangement has been arrived at with Farage and his personal political vehicle.
And besides, it is Labour policy to try and get an early general election… having your key policies ready before a VONC is even called, never mind won, shouldn't be too much to ask.
He can take his opinion and * off back to the Tory party.
Stealing supporters and voters from the Tory Party (and LibDems, SNP, Greens & Brexit Party) should be the aim of the Labour Party… setting out a better path for the UK than those other parties, and taking the voting population with you, should be the aim. Telling everyone to * off back to old tribal homes is part of the current problem.
On this specific issue, it's not just any GE at any time. It's a GE called within the next 3 months, and a GE takes ~2 months to run.
Agree that Labour should be planning how they'd respond to whoever is PM calling a GE, and Brexit would be a key part of that before October. But after October it's a non-issue (assuming Boris actually follows through with his plan).
Regardless of that, the point is that we're arguing over speculative futures, rather than discussing the actual current position of "Tories are Brexiting, how would a remain-voter actually stop this". Labour coming out in favour of 100% guaranteed referendum vs a referendum only on the current Tory deal doesn't materially affect the situation right now.
How would backing a referendum “unambiguously, and without qualification” be a shift to the right?
Read the full article.
Does the “remain camp” include all the Labour members who voted for Corbyn to be leader,
Well anecdotally, and certainly on here, it's very illustrative that most fellow remainers I speak with only ever want to talk about Corbyn and the labour party than Boris and his no deal ambitions. Feel free though to continue with this line of pedantry. No doubt when no deal happens you'll all be blaming Corbyn for distracting you from the real enemy.
and it wouldn’t matter, because Boris is not going to offer a referendum and there isn’t going to be a GE before October 31st.
You're forgetting about the secret 'Stop Brexit' button Corbyn has in his bunker that he's annoyingly refusing to use. Maybe he's confusing it with the nuclear button?
Telling everyone to **** off back to old tribal homes is part of the current problem.
D’Ancona is still a hardline tory. Look at his primary employment for gods sake. This isnt someone who has switched but just someone who rather than take on the lunatics in his own party wants to turn Labour into a clone.
To appeal to him would be to abandon anyone even centre right.
Read the full article.
His list of back benchers (and a few front benchers) that he would like to see in government looks good to me. So much talent being wasted…
wants to turn Labour into a clone
Does that include Brexit policy? Would unambiguously, and without qualification, supporting a referendum make Labour a clone of the Tories?
Brexit should be a chance to take voters from the Conservative party.
You’re forgetting about the secret ‘Stop Brexit’ button Corbyn has in his bunker that he’s annoyingly refusing to use.
At the last set of elections, we were told that the only way to stop Brexit was to get a Labour government in place. The plan is still for Labour to try and get into power, yes? What they would do in government is still a vital issue then.
D’Ancona is still a hardline tory.
I think you may want to have a closer look at the present Tory party if you think someone like Matthew d"Ancona represents its 'hardline'.
I find his weekly Guardian articles a pretty balanced impartial read. Its not like he's been shy of wading into the mess that is the present Tory party. And he's socially liberal and very anti-brexit.
Here you go. From the last few weeks columns:
Hard Brexit is the drug the Tories need to wean themselves off
Labour could dominate the centre ground and win. But it doesn’t seem to want to
Can't say as I blame him TBH. Anyone with more sense than ambition* would want to keep well away from power at the moment. Corbyn could swoop in at the 11th hour, pull us back from the brink of mass Seppuku and wind up being the greatest PM in living history, and the gutter press would be dining out on gammon and kippers on the back of it for the next two decades. Brexit will be Corbyn's tuition fees / Iraq war.
(* - which is why Boris is a shoe-in.)
No doubt when no deal happens you’ll all be blaming Corbyn for distracting you from the real enemy.
Corbyn will be blamed because there is supposed to be an effective opposition party. There won't be until Corbyn, Milne, and the rest of the cronies are disposed of.