jambalaya - Member@Kilo testimony to HoC last week
That's an interesting interpretation of HMRC's DG stating they had no idea about the Irish border as I quoted
"Appearing before the parliamentary spending watchdog on Monday, HMRC officials were asked how they would monitor the movement of goods and services at 300 crossing points along the border.
Karen Wheeler, HMRC’s director general, said: “That area is not within the scope that we have been working on in the border planning group because the arrangements on Ireland are still subject to negotiations and ministerial discussions.”"
@kelvin I have a lot of experience in global trade finance (Standard Chartered where I worked for 11 years along with HSBC and Citi dominate trade finance) . The EU’s biggest trade partners operate under WTO. This whole “crashing out” and “cliff edge” stuff is just media / Remainers nonsense. The biggest tarifs are on agricultural products and we can buy those elsewhere once outside the EU if we chose, tariff free if and when we sign deals. The EU has trade deals with 60 countries most of them tiny and not major trading counterparts. The big ones operate under WTO.
Does the DUP announcement mean that if there is an agreement for an open border in NI but not at Dover, then we’re looking at another election?
Could be.
Jamba, are you going to address my point as regards trade across the Irish border on "WTO rules", and that it isn't in our remit to treat it as either an open, or tariff free, border?
The EU’s biggest trade partners operate under WTO
Want to list the countries that trade solely on WTO rules?
I have a lot of experience in global trade finance
So not global trade then.
Jamba - I’m sure you’re a bright guy, but finance is a relatively simple game. Trade, particularly in a time of flux and new products and standards is not. With Brexit we are giving up a lot of control of our markets. Previously we had a place at the table on standards and specifications - going forward we will end up accepting EU standards with no say in the matter.
And that sadly is probably unavoidable now - at least without agreeing to be part of a variety of institutions that May has stupidly red lined.
Standard Chartered where I worked for 11 years along with HSBC and Citi dominate trade finance) . ....The biggest tarifs are on agricultural products
Did you oversee many big $$ international turnip deals ?
Aaaaand we've folded again
https://www.ft.com/content/acc6c972-d5c8-11e7-a303-9060cb1e5f44
Bound by ecj rulings but no longer any judges on the court
Brexit really is taking back control 😡
Good news for this morning, if true. Swiss style deal for aviation is very sensible (but gives away control compared to current position, of course).
A non-FT linky: https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-stay-in-eu-air-safety-body-in-blurring-of-brexit-red-line-11151049
Red line turning pinkish?
Now let’s get working on keeping the four freedoms.
That was a red line too, but it would sort a lot of problems if it also went pink line (or no line).
Just stay out of the Euro. Hopefully we’ll still get the rebate but I guess that’s not definite.
If we are staying in ecj for aviation, then why are we leaving Euratom or EMA?
Because even the lack lustre politicans handling this understand aviation needs sorting a year early. Of course, lots of other industries ideally need that early certainty as well, but aviation is more clean cut. I expect/hope that next summer the idea of paying for, but not having a say in, more bodies, will be on the cards.
so basically , the growns up doing the negociations are just agreeing to keep what is there at the moment ?
i wonder how much they are getting paid for doing it .
That’s because what we’ve got is an excellent deal for Britain.
they seem to be negotiating a dea that is worse than what we have here and wont make either leavers or remainers happy
that really is stellar levels of **** wittery
Er, no Junkyard… that describes any deals that can/could/would/might be arrived at.
There is no alternative for us that is either better, or more popular, than staying in the EU but carving out our own exceptions from within. No A vs B referendum could be won… [i]where A is remaining and reforming, and B is a defined new relationship[/i]… what we had was A vs (B or C or D or unicorns)…[i] where B and C and D are totally conflicting non overlapping new relationships, and the unicorns were impossible cake and eat it deals that fall apart as soon as securitised. [/i]This is why there is no chance of the public being offered the choice between the end deals and remaining in the EU… no one on the Leave side, or wanting to keep the Conservative party in one piece, will risk giving "the people" a real choice to make.
And kelvin is doing that accurate information thing again.
You’re right of course Kelvin but don’t expect it to make you any friends.
We don’t want accuracy we want unicorns.
“Real” choice - do you want to remain members of the EU. Yes or no. How unreal does it get?
Still all moving along despite the moaning. Agencies will be dealt with, bill done who knows the rights of UK citizens in the EU might be addressed. And then trade at last...,
Although a lot of that probably stitched up behind closed doors alread
Still hard Brexshit looking less likely so we should all be happy !!
What about the people who voted wanting a "hard Brexit", and would see something akin to EEA/EFTA, with payments continuing, and our place at decision tables removed, as worse than staying in the EU? We can't "all be happy"… it's not even possible for the majority of Leave voters to be happy with the end deals, is it?
Bespoke deal kelvin, bespoke deal
Get with the program ( awaits bigger boy in slippers) 😉 and note use of conditional tense (“should”)
They can enjoy every day as a learning day
Bespoke deal still means nothing at all… …it only rules out adopting an existing arrangement in its entirety. It clearly doesn't even mean the same thing to government ministers tasked with essential work in forming our new relationships with the EU, WTO, and everyone else.
then we’re looking at another election?
And a genuine leaver in charge of Brexshit not a pretend convert. Best of all we would get a jobs first Brexshit. What’s not to like?
Bespoke deal still means nothing at all… …it only rules existing options out
Indeed. Bespoke.
Well, once these "bespoke" deals are actually fleshed out, whatever form they take, they won't please a majority of "the people", will they?
they won't please a majority of "the people", will they?
Just keep repeating "bespoke" and it will all be good. Like "brexit means brexit" and "strong and stable". OK maybe not that one.
At best we will end up with a similar situation to now but just with no say and probably a bigger bill.
Which will have everyone annoyed.
Then you have variations down to the dream land of the ultra hard brexit and even then I suspect most of those currently dreaming of it will not be pleased when they realise that it just means cash for the few.
I have no idea. But negotiations normally involve compromises on both sides and given that I do not support the “thicko narrative” I expect most people will have the capacity to understand this.
So far, this is what is happening. So a bad deal is being made better. Not good but better. So let’s hope this continues. In that context, a good week
Sad but not unexpected that Sturgeon ( remember her) still talking about “in” the single market today. Why can’t these people understand the basics?
Membership of v access to
Cmon wee nippy. Repeat 200x and it might sink in. Then you can learn about how currencies work Treat Brexshit as a learning experience instead of repeating BS
Membership of v access to
Membership of vs operating in.
"Access" means anything, including WTO rules only.
Do we want full tariff free access? Or full tariff free access excluding farm and fish products? Or quota limited tariff free access? Or ariff access only? Same regulatory bodies? Full mutual recognition of standards? Limited recognition of each other's standards?
Please list the areas where the EU have compromisednegotiations normally involve compromises on both sides
Please list the areas where we have capitulated erm compromised
Feel free to do the same for the red lines for both sides
Compare and contrast please
There is no doubt there has been movement but only from one side.
You really are very impolite and happy to flirt with racism and sexism to anyone in the SNP. ShamefulCmon wee nippy.
It is one of the “off the shelf” four kelvin correct. Not a good one, but one nevertheless. We knew that.
Wow that’s a lot of editing to keep on top of 😉 and a lot of questions to put on a ballot paper ! 😉
Pleased to see that you cut the break short BTW.
Indeed… saying we want "access not membership" is as meaningless as Brexit means Brexit, and bespoke deal…it is leaned on by people masking the lack of plan beyond "leaving the EU".
On the contrary it is the crux. Do I need to link the explanation for a hundredth time?
repeating BS
p'rhaps you'd have a word with your mate about that, now he's back? 😉
😉
I do regularly !!
😆
Do I need to link the explanation for a hundredth time?
Everything other than "membership" is "access" … so meaningless.
The highest politican in Scotland is right to want to keep her country, and ours, operating in the Single Market. We would not be members, no, but we could operate in it and benefit from tariff free access and standards harmonisation. Not where we will end up, I suspect, and a worse position than being a full member, but hey… damage limitation.
The end result will be seen as worse than EU membership by well over half "the people", so their "will" won't be tested by any kind of UK wide vote or poll.
Sad but not unexpected that Sturgeon ( remember her) still talking about “in” the single market today. Why can’t these people understand the basics?
60% of her constituency voted to remain. She has a clear democratic mandate to pursue our continued membership. Remember, she's the [b]Scottish[/b] First Minister. She is perfectly at liberty to reject the English vote (as it was an English vote).
Funny how you criticise yer mate Corbyn (at infinite and tedious length) for saying nothing and Sturgeon for the opposite. Make your mind up please. It's almost like you're just trolling... what currency do you get paid in?
Why can't YOU respect democracy for a change, will of the people and all that. Seen as you're such an advocate.
You know, I think I've reluctantly become a supporter for Scottish independence.
Well done, go ask for a bonus.
Do we want full tariff free access? Or full tariff free access excluding farm and fish products? Or quota limited tariff free access? Or ariff access only? Same regulatory bodies? Full mutual recognition of standards? Limited recognition of each other's standards?
Come , come kelvin, it was all perfectly clear in the in/out referendum slip. There's no point in moaning now. We just have to get on with it... the people have [i]spoken[/i] 😯
I do regularly !!
You need to watch that, it's one of the first signs of madness...
Why can't YOU respect democracy for a change, will of the people and all that....You know, I think I've reluctantly become a supporter for Scottish independence
the best today. Bravo !
The highest politican in Scotland is right to want to keep her country, and ours, operating in the Single Market.
That is what all the leaders are advocating. Some using the correct language and understanding others less so. The lovely Ms Sturgeon is in the latter camp but factual accuracy has never been her forte
says the man caught not being factually accurate yesterdayis in the latter camp but factual accuracy has never been her forte
Perhaps he just despises in others his own shortcomings...like the way he lecture us on politeness and accuracy and then does that
Then again he might just be a troll...neither option is that positive...careful now he will cal us a posse of bullies soon [ not now i have said it 😉 ]
Whisper it gently, we are not going to make a success of Breakfast, sorry Brexit.
At least not with idiots like David, Borris and Liam around. JRM doesn’t help either.
Four freedoms as a minimum.
