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So JRM is backing BoJo, make of that what you will.
JRM once said "I can see no reason why Johnson couldn't be Prime Minister." Some wag immediately popped up with, "should have gone to MonocleSavers."
Neither Boris nor JRM are blessed with much in the way of imagination, judging by their published works both are educated beyond their intellectual limitations.
So JRM is backing BoJo, make of that what you will. To me it indicates the fix is already in, Boris lands the job and Moggy and his ERG chums will be taking turns operating their new puppet.
Everyone strap in, it’s going to be a rough ride.
The thing is, we need them and Farage to be in charge, to expose them for the frauds and idiots that they are. Otherwise them, their cheerleaders and those who follow them will always be sniping from the sidelines undermining any chance of progress.
I just hope they can be exposed (to the majority) before they do too much damage, so we can return to being a progressive and enlightened country.
I hope the damage will largely be political and reversible before it destroys too many peoples lives, and communities.
I hope the damage will largely be political and reversible before it destroys too many peoples lives, and communities.
It is still the tory party, destroying peoples lives and their communities is their main goal.
So JRM is backing BoJo, make of that what you will. To me it indicates the fix is already in, Boris lands the job and Moggy and his ERG chums will be taking turns operating their new puppet.
Becasue JRM is one of those classic back seat drivers. The person that sits in the wings telling everyone how much better it could have, should have been done, how they'd have sorted it by now but never ever daring to get behind the wheel becasue they'd be shown up immediately by their utter incompetence.
Actually quite a clever tactic - you get all the publicity by standing there shouting but much less of the risk of being shown up as a monumental ****.
Boris has too much of an ego for that - he's the one up the front bluffing that yes he meant to do it this way and isn't it all jolly funny.
Out of the frying pan into... ?
we need them and Farage to be in charge, to expose them for the frauds and idiots that they are.
Only, that hasn't really worked so well this far, has it.
As previously reported, the astroturfing going on in the Labour Party forums has been an eye opener, but the response has been largely unanimous. I don’t believe that Magic Grandad would survive a confidence vote.
Some 80% percent of Momentum members back Remain, simply swapping Jezza for another Seumas Milne approved Brexiteer won’t get Labour any closer to power.
seems to be a large internal cock-up by the Electoral Commission
How?
As far as I am aware the failing is down to the maybot leaving it to the last minute to go "errmm yeah about leaving the EU before the elections, errm ahhhh, bit ambitious so get voting". Which meant the local authorities hadnt got the funding approved to properly manage and plan for it. Some managed (probably by gambling it would be happening and spending in advance which would have risked them getting in trouble if it didnt happen) and others didnt.
I dont think the electoral commission has the legal authority to have enforced a sensible timetable.
Why does England want to leave the EU but remain part of the UK. That's not independence, is it?
I'm with those that say the likes of Boris needs to take over from May.
I can't stand him but we need a Brexiteer PM to fail badly and bring down Brexit with him. The Tories too, fingers crossed.
The country will be damaged along the way but that's no longer avoidable.
The country needs to suffer in the short term to truly put Brexit to bed for generations.
Yes, I'm totally p*ssed off by Brexit and it's proponents!
We’ve all seen those beautifully surfaced roads they have on the mainland that are only like that as the uk paid for them.
How long after we leave will our roads be the same?
seems to be a large internal cock-up by the Electoral Commission
It's yet another UK government cock up. Add it to the list.
Why does England want to leave the EU but remain part of the UK. That’s not independence, is it?
I shall be reusing this. Thanks.
Why does England want to leave the EU but remain part of the UK. That’s not independence, is it?
No, wait, I know the answer to this one...
Apparently the British Steel thing is the EU's fault - they insisted that BS be responsible for its environmental impact (in fact the Govt lent them the money for carbon credits), and prevented public money being spunked up to make good their losses. Such is brexiteer logic...
Boris has made his 'No Deal' pitch.
Radio 4 this morning were reporting that the 'contest' will be decided by under 100,000, possibly as low as 50,000 Tory party members (they refuse to give actual figures) with an average age of 71
God help us!
Boris will need to make it through to the final two selected by Tory MPs. By all accounts he is not very popular amongst his peers and beyond that is thought of as a bit of an election liability. So he will need to work hard to get the Brexiteer ticket.
Rory Stewart committing the ultimate sin: endangering the party solidarity by saying he couldn't or wouldn't serve under BoJo, I see...
DrJ
Member
Apparently the British Steel thing is the EU’s fault – they insisted that BS be responsible for its environmental impact (in fact the Govt lent them the money for carbon credits), and prevented public money being spunked up to make good their losses. Such is brexiteer logic…
Simon Jordan on QT was interesting about this. From memory he said the venture capitalists that bought it for £1 have taken £60 mil out of the company since owning it.
Boris will need to make it through to the final two selected by Tory MPs. By all accounts he is not very popular amongst his peers and beyond that is thought of as a bit of an election liability. So he will need to work hard to get the Brexiteer ticket.
This. Though I suspect Boris would rather be the next + 1 PM, rather than the shooting his bolt being the next, as well- like JRM, he's better on the sidelines fine tuning his opinion each time the winds shift.
Yeah that`s because Rory Stewart is by some margin the only sane candidate as far as I can see.
His experience in difficult situations outside politics is remarkable , compared with the other candidates who are a bunch of liars or something , none of this helps when the country has no palatable party to support that has the numbers to make a difference , Labour need to split first
with a sensible middle ground team - they would cleanup .
Yeah that`s because Rory Stewart is by some margin the only sane candidate as far as I can see.
His experience in difficult situations outside politics is remarkable
I agree, and the fact that he’s achieved all this after being killed in Vietnam is all the more remarkable.
giggle , lots here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart
I would never vote for the Tories but I think there is something I could respect there.
Rory Stewart sounds a very decent sort and with much more real world experience than your average career politician. Makes you wonder why he's in the game and why he's a Tory.
re British Steel- Greybull Capital who as mentioned above bought them for a pound, promised at the time of aquisition to invest £400m into the company. Instead they loaned them £154m, upon which they charged £17m in interest in 2017 and 2018. The company's owner loaned them money at a higher interest rate than the company's banks. They also charged £3m management fees annually for the privilege.
Greybull Capital have got form for this sort of thing.
They conducted a similar ‘rescue’ of Monarch’ airlines and made a profit on its collapse while costing the taxpayer 60 million quid.
And these sorts of disaster capitalists are going to be licking their lips at the prospect of the no deal Brexit that is looking increasingly inevitable. They’ll make an absolute killing out of the ensuing carnage
How can I become a disaster capitalist? Seems lucrative
How can I become a disaster capitalist? Seems lucrative
There’s the rub. You need a shitload of ready cash you can initially ‘invest’ and a list of ‘contacts’ that include some senior Tory politicians.
A bit like those grand tax avoidance schemes. If they were open to everyone it wouldn’t be so bad, but of course they only work if the gain you make on avoiding tax is more than the fees of the advisor. For this to work, the bill must be big.
If things get too bad, you also need more cash to add two metres to the height of the fence around your estate so you can feel secure against potential criminals who might have it in for you.
If I'm not mistaken, John McD has pretty much just announced that labour will be swinging behind a 2nd ref on sky news. Said it was 'right thing to do to try to bring the two sides together, but now we have to move on'. Also said labour and other parties and moderates had to do everything possible to prevent an extremist new tory leader from taking us out with no deal. If that's not a clear signal that labour are now moving towards a full-blown remain position I don't know what is.
Get over it man! Whether you like it or not, Corbyn isn't going anywhere.
Then sadly. I fear, niether is the Labour party
Looks like Len McClusky didn’t get the memo on the second referendum then. He’s on Five Live now
Head still buried in the 1973 sand as they carry on reversing down their Corbynite Brexit ‘delivering the will of the people’ cul-de-sac.
He’s ripping into Tom Watson for having the temerity to engage with reality, as opposed to red unicorns
It’s pretty depressing listening. He seems to inhabit some kind of alternative universe
The shadow chancellor and deputy leader have been talking sense about Brexit for months now… but… they don't set Labour policy on this, and nor do the members. Hell, even Paul Mason is stridently calling for the Leader to clearly come down in favour of a referendum at least. The pressure will be mounting over the next few weeks… I doubt it'll have any effect though… but I would like love to be wrong and for Corbyn to come good on his "party run by its members" promise.
There’s the rub. You need a shitload of ready cash you can initially ‘invest’ and a list of ‘contacts’ that include some senior Tory politicians.
Also helps to be an utter ****.
Looks like Len McClusky didn’t get the memo on the second referendum then.
Which explains Corbyn's position. Irrespective of his own views his primary job is to hold the party together, which so far he's managing (just!). Somehow he has to keep working class dinosaurs like McCluskey and modernist middle class socialists like Paul Mason on the same side. Same for working class white voters in northern towns and middle class cosmopolitan liberals in the cities. It's all a balancing act. And yet you think they should rip all that apart just at the time when voters are sending a clear and unambiguous signal that they're fed up with politicians obsessing about themselves and their parties?
Did you read the deputy leader's email/column? Labour need to turn their back on the Lexit dinosaurs if they want the support of the public that are normally inclined to vote for them. They'd already have done this if it wasn't for the intrangency of the leader and head of strategy.
And, time to dump this bullocks about the "working class" being the supporters and facilitators of Brexit. It is the public school educated, those one step removed from the reality of life in Britain for most people, who have pushed it on the nation. And I include Corbyn in that.
And, time to dump this bullocks about the “working class” being the supporters and facilitators of Brexit.
Do you deny that there is a significant proportion of white working class labour voters who voted for brexit? I could take you to places in the north east where the vast majority are habitual tribal labour voters, and almost 100% pro-brexit. And I can assure you they haven't changed their mind. If you think labour can afford to lose them either to Farage or simply them not turning out then you are as much in denial as those who think a no deal is a good idea.
It is the public school educated, those one step removed from the reality of life in Britain for most people, who have pushed it on the nation. And I include Corbyn in that.
Once again the cult-like obsession with Corbyn warps people's minds. So not only is he a far-right sympathising hard brexiteer immigrant hater, now he's also a member of the aloof public school governing elite!
Well Corbyn went to a £2500 to £3500 per term (depending on age) school, Castle House, so he is very much a part of "the aloof public school governing elite!"
he’s also a member of the aloof public school governing elite!
Sorry, he went to a state school and has a long history of doing jobs that any reasonable person would identify as "working class". Silly me. He is in no way a career politician (not that I think that's a bad thing) and is working class to the core. Not public school educated. Not part of the political "elite". Man of the people. Salt of the earth. Also he was never a Brexitier, because he has no history of anti EU campaigning and positioning and voting. None at all.
Several prominent tory MPs today saying they would vote against thier own party in a VONC, if a no deal brexiter replaces may. The numbers are there across the house to take down the government, I'm fairly confident.
Corbyn needs to openly support a 2nd ref though, or get ousted and replaced by someone like Starmer.
Corbyn is dead wood and needs to go.
Well Corbyn went to a £2500 to £3500 per term (depending on age) school, Castle House, so he is very much a part of “the aloof public school governing elite!
I doubt a few years at an independent prep school is quite the equal of attending Eton.
No one can help their background but what you take from it is key.
It not the "equal" of Eton, no, and nor is Adams. I think you can comfortably call both "elite" though. I have no doubt that Corbyn is doing what he thinks is best for the "working class", but he is ultimately still talking about pushing ahead with Brexit with no real experience of what it is like to live a less rarified life. And nothing he has said in the last three years suggests to me that he really understands the areas of business, education, research and personal lives that will be touched by the alternative "an end to FoM, Leave the Single Market, Leave the Customs Union, Jobs First, not a bad Tory Brexit" he espouses.
the remain vote is leaving Labour in droves. Tom Watson and the like recognise it, and are advocating doing something about it. While the Tories continue their downward spiral in to the black hole of faragism, the hardcore brexit vote from both Labour and Tory goes to brexit party. Labour need to provide a home for those remain votes. If they don't the remain vote will continue to split across lib Dems and green, and nothing will stop this train wreck. Ironically the Brexit party may do enough, take enough of the swivel-eyed with them from the big two, to make it an easier choice for Labour.
Karl Marx’s Garden Gnome (thanks to the Mash for that one) interpreted the Labour parties awful local election results ‘as a message that we need to get on with Brexit’.
So when tonight’s disastrous EU election results come in, he’ll double down, say the same and continue to haemorrhage support to the greens and the Lib Dem’s from remainers who’ve had enough of the fence-sitting, as the hardcore leavers all shuffle off to Farage
Clueless!
Will be interested to see the results of the EU elections tonight from the UK.
I've a feeling farage won't do quite as well as he hopes. There's a definat upsurge in green /lib dem sentiment. We might see quite an even playing field.
I expect the brexit party to be strongest, but not by much.
Bets on pasties anyone?
I've just finished counting votes at the local polling station, got home and turned the TV on. The results are quite reassuring. The RN (FN 24%) have done slightly better than in the last general election in 2017 but slightly worse then in local elections in 2015. EM (Macron 22.5%) did as well as could be hoped, the Greens 12.5% did well and the rest did somewhere between poorly and catastrophic. When the votes for the two previous governments, Hollande (PS 6.5%) and Sarkosy (LR 8.5%) don't even get to 10% you know the political landscape has changed, and the Macron - Le Pen duel wasn't just a blip.
How many extra MEPs do we think Labour will pick up, given the strife of the Tories?
Somewhere between none and minus figures.
So when tonight’s disastrous EU election results come in, he’ll [...]
Clueless!
So you're saying he's clueless based on your pediction of what he'll do? In what world does that make sense?
I’ll just have to share this one with you from one of the hardcore Lexiteer Corbyn nutters I know when I told him I’d voted Green.
I’ve voted for ‘rebranded Thatcherism’ apparently.
Just have a think about that for a minute. That’s where we are with the Corbynites in their bunker.
Difficult to know where to start with that, really
given that we voted on Thursday, why aren't the results available immediately at 10pm???
Oh come on DrJ. Labour are going to have a disastrous night tonight, and as he’s done before, at every turn, he’ll double down on his voter-jettisoning pro-Brexit nonsense
Len McClusky has been busy doing the warm up act all day today
He’s the mirror image of May. Incompetent, useless and surrounded by a small cabal of ideologues who’s opinion he listens to exclusively, ignoring everyone else, and reality
why aren’t the results available immediately at 10pm???
Because counting didnt start till now. I assume to prevent results leaking out and potentially impacting on the decisions of those still to vote.
given that we voted on Thursday, why aren’t the results available immediately at 10pm
Because some EU countries don't vote until today, so everyone gets to see the results all at the same time
Woohoo!
Brexit party won (2 - 1) in the North East with 39% votes! 🕺💃
240K plus votes.
More than double the votes of 2nd place Labour.
he’ll double down on his voter-jettisoning pro-Brexit nonsense
I bow down to your experience with doubling down on nonsense. Binners meaningful prediction 1020
A long night but so far a good night for the Brexit Now Party, but not for leave overall (on votes, not MEPs, which is what would count in a third referendum).
But a long night ahead.
So far…
Labour running 5th in Scotland.
Behind Plaid Cymru in Wales.
5th in East of England.
Behind LibDems in London.
Give the Labour leader's director of strategy and communications a gold star.
Interesting that Brexit Party vote is big, but less than drop in votes for UKIP & Tories from 2014. So far anyway.
It looks CHUK will be defecting to Lib Dem ... 🤔
CHUK are the kentuky mc burger King of political parties.
CHUK are the kentuky mc burger King of political parties.
True true 🤔 🤣
I recommend the killfile if you wish to avoid rerunning the same conversations as we had three years ago. Also effective with 99% of non-sequiturs.
Labour 5th in South West.
Brexit Party, again, basically had UKIP share of the vote, plus less than half of the vote share lost by the Tories. No Labour or Conservative MEPs returned at all.
Greens don't look to have done as well in Scotland as seemed possible... I optimistically voted for them as it seemed plausible they'd get one seat, but the SNP were very unlikely to pull 4, bit disappointed.
Still, enjoying all the comments that the current SNP position of 50% of the seats and 39% of the vote is a disaster, while the brexit party's 15% and one is a triumph.
Looks like Nige has scored his desired outcome, he's killing UKIP and hoovering up a reasonable chunk of protest votes from Lab/Con leavers...
Christ knows what that actually achieves but there you go.
The only thing I'm taking comfort from is the level of LD and Green support is that a 2nd ref would still be a nail biter for Leaverists...
That turnout figure and 37% on BBC here is that really only 37%* of the countries voters bothered to vote on this? *me included.
My mind boggles that amongst our MEPs will be Ann Widdecombe and Annunziata Rees-Mogg.
Looks like Nige has scored his desired outcome, he’s killing UKIP and hoovering up a reasonable chunk of protest votes from Lab/Con leavers…
Not enough but promising.
The only thing I’m taking comfort from is the level of LD and Green support is that a 2nd ref would still be a nail biter for Leaverists…
The main parties might have to join the "beauty contest" while Brexit party will be the judge ... 🤣
Now dance! (not you but the main parties)
That turnout figure and 37% on BBC here is that really only 37%* of the countries voters bothered to vote on this? *me included.
Yes, very low in my view ...
As much as it pains me that The brexit party have done so well, I am encouraged that if you add up the remain parties, they seem to be winning.
Re the turnout, I’m all for mandatory voting. The biggest issue since the war, and almost 2/3s of people can’t be arsed. That’s disgusting.
As much as it pains me that The brexit party have done so well, I am encouraged that if you add up the remain parties, they seem to be winning.
Add up all the Referendum votes see what you get. 🤣
I’ll just have to share this one with you from one of the hardcore Lexiteer Corbyn nutters I know when I told him I’d voted Green.
These guys sound interesting (not in a good way BTW)! Back in the day I had a lot of fun arguing against old left Stalinists. Maybe we should organise a night in the pub? 🙂
The main parties might have to join the “beauty contest” while Brexit party will be the judge …
You reckon?
This ain't a GE, or a 2nd ref.
It's a supposedly "meaningless" vote where the Gammons have turned out in force to send some sort of message, still not sure what it is though.
So far… The Brexit Party have managed to wipe out UKIP.
🤷🏻♂️
Big surge for LibDems, Greens and SNP, while many Labour and Conservative MEPs get the retirements that their parties promised them.
Was gonna reply but popup.
Was gonna reply but popup
What was that then?
Re the turnout, I’m all for mandatory voting. The biggest issue since the war, and almost 2/3s of people can’t be arsed. That’s disgusting
I agree with you, we should have mandatory voting, but the turnout is also an indicator of the general Brexit malaise/fatigue the country is now suffering from...