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THe way to kill any Leave thread on Facebook is to ask what the first euro law they would repeal is.
Any news today on the "Project Fear" claim that the threat of new overheads, regulatory burdens and delays relating to rules of origin, the Single Market and Customs checks would make it very difficult for car manufacturers to expand their operations here, and could even lead to factory closures, huge job losses, and cars being built elsewhere instead?
Back from the frozen north. I guess then Corbyn did his stitch up and I owe Binners a pound of pies? No?
Honda now. Eek.
Message us Uncle Jezza and the cream cakes are on me.
Anyway... if anyone could ask the leavers why, as the US and China embark on a full blown trade war, that these 2 economic superpowers are going to come over all benevolent when negotiating with the lil’ol U.K.?
These people really are totally detached from reality
I've been thinking about those on the left (on here and elsewhere) now so keen to say that Brexit must happen to defend democracy, and the contrasting view of others that Brexit is some kind of right wing take over. How have those keen on disruption persuaded so many of us that breaking international ties is the only path forward that "respects democracy", and that one referendum prevents any further referendum or course adjusting, when, logically, the public being able to vote and in other ways inform politicians as to how policy should change, is democracy. For me, it keeps coming back to an odd group of people whose ideas I read with great interest in the early 90s. I was a subscriber to Living Marxism, the ideas magazine of the Revolutionary Communist Party… and their writers were always thought provoking… and I only stopped when the anti-war campaign, which I supported, revealed the organisation was cultist (yes, yes, it should have been obvious, I was young). Anyway, follow the chain…
RCP > Living Marxism > LM > Spiked > Invoke Democracy Now > The Brexit Party
That's right, what looks like being the most successful new party for a century, that is so often described as "right wing", is relying on the organisational and astroturfing skills of people who I'd have once known as far left cultists. Those who aims are to, quite frankly, **** up our country, are successfully coming together from what, redundantly, we used to call left and right… and most importantly, persuading us to vote for them in the name of protecting "democracy", or persuading us to post on the internet that forcing through Brexit now is the only valid path we can take, as they seek to dismantle all our democratic institutions and protections.
Dark days people, dark days.
THe way to kill any Leave thread on Facebook is to ask what the first euro law they would repeal is.
There was a delicious snippet of this on R4 today during an outside broadcast in Peterborough, about 720am ish?, The brexit party candidate was asked this and the yawning silence and then stutter, followed by a garbled non answer was just great. Bastid will still get in though
THe way to kill any Leave thread on Facebook is to ask what the first euro law they would repeal is.
Yep. Also heard the guy on radio 4 this morning. Would be funny if it wasn't true.
David Lanny is rarely wrong about Brexit...
https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1128197038066348034?s=21
Just like anyone who tries to explain what they think is best for the UK (who isn't a Brexitier) he will be labelled as sneering, condescending, undemocratic etc.
It is time though, for Labour politicians standing to be counted, to stop using "far right" to describe the forces they are seeking to counteract. It's playing to the home crowd. Time to be clear that the disruption and damage will be as a result of people from the left, right and neither, acting to break up the EU, and cripple the UK state, in order to futher their own interests and the interests of those that fund them. I understand why it is hard for those staying in the Labour movement to say that, as the party is a broad church, especially given its current leadership, but it has to start being said.
David Lanny is rarely wrong about Brexit…
I'll ask again, do you and all the others who think labour should be a committed remain party think they can win a general election on that platform?
And not just beat the tories, but win against a tory/Farage coalition???
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1128055509842419713
I don't know if a remain labour will win but they will stand more of a chance than a leave labour .
We are not only fighting brexit ,we are now fighting fascists.
I’ll ask again, do you and all the others who think labour should be a committed remain party think they can win a general election on that platform?
No, but they would stand a good chance of becoming the largest party both at the European Parliament (and I mean largest from ANY country) and the largest party in the UK parliament after a general election called before we have left. I don't think a majority in the UK parliament is on the cards in the next few years come what may, but current "policy" as regards Europe is hampering not improving Labour results right now.
I think that the very idea of a Tory party willingly going into a coalition with the far right would scare the living bejeesus out of many moderate Tory voters. Enough for them to vote for a labour party that was more interesting in opposing that coalition rather than pretending the very real threat of a far right government doesn't exist.
As someone noted earlier, just because we've never had a really extreme government in this country doesn't mean it can't happen. The complacency, at best, and clowardly, directionless facilitating of this by the labour leadership is an utter disgrace
If it can't stand up to this then, really, what is the point of its existence? The politics in this country is being wrenched further and further to the right and becoming nasty and intolerant, while the labour party sits idly by with its thumb up its arse
Neither Labour or the Conservatives are likely to get a majority in a general election regardless of their Brexit stance. A fully Remain Labour would do better though and probably be more able to form some sort of progressive coalition as a result.
Current polling for the EU elections probably doesn't reflect what a GE would look like though.
So I've joined a direct action group on Facebook, to see what they get up to. The best they have got so far is to hang some banners on bridges at the weekend.
As you can imagine there has been some chat in this group about who to vote for in the upcoming EU elections (even tho it's undemocratic organising full of unelected bureaucrats...
Today I decided to create a poll - simply asking if the NHS should be privatised post Brexit. Given that it's an actual UKIP policy & Farage has stated as much on several occasions...
So far no-one thinks it should be privatised, I am however wondering the best way to point out who they are voting for wants to privatise it.
Suggestions please.
Could you write it down the side of a bus?
I could photoshop that way. Seems they'll believe it when it's on the side of a bus. Cos buses don't lie.
I’ll ask again, do you and all the others who think labour should be a committed remain party think they can win a general election on that platform?
Under the right leader? Possible. With this one? Unlikely they could win irrespective of their policy on brexit IMO.
Could you write it down the side of a bus?
As long as you don't get the nochange party's graphic designers to do it.
Call for free range bananas by a bell-end brexiteer on James Obrien LBC earlier this morning, as long as there is idiots like this with voting power then we are ****ed
bell end brexiteer talks yet more shite
Given the calibre of those who called in this morning i figure they were all a little lost when they found out the jeremy kyle show was cancelled
I occasionally hear the James OBrian show and the callers sometimes are beyond belief. There was one claiming that leaving the EU would prevent things like the bombing of Manchester Arena, Lord knows how, he clearly had no Idea.
But he'd clearly been primed by the Farage Migrant poster
Yeah i heard that guy mentioning the manchester bombing earlier in this mornings show, I used to think that this country was of a reasonable median intelligence but lately it seems to populated by complete ****ing idiots. I've had enough of trying to reason and justify our EU partnership with them as they are all ****ing brainwashed brexiterring cultists (i have an eu flag sticker on my van and house so have had a fair number of comments), from now on it's a more direct approach.
This type of thinking is not limited to UKIP followers. During a past election campaign I saw my old local MP (Djangoly, Conservative, Huntingdon) doing a chat at the local Tesco.
Being interested in politics at that point with more than a passing interest in defence policy, I asked him what he thought about Trident. His response was that it was essential for the defence of the country and would discourage terrorists from attacking us.
For an allegedly clever person, that's a really retarded way to look at a strategic deterrent and, since then, events have proven him wrong several times.
Anyway, it's not just the public that make stupid statements.
We will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners.
That is a direct quote from the Labour Manifesto. So will all the apologists still denying that Labour is a brexit supporting party please stop. Just stop. There is no ambiguity in that.
whats the difference between a member and a partner then, in practical & political terms?
ultimately they want us to no longer be members so they are a brexit party I suppose
Onewheel, my read of that is that Labour want to be out of the EU, but still want to work with them.
Unless I am missing context from elsewhere in the manifesto, it certainly sounds like they want a Brexit.
I think its safe to assume that any party that votes to trigger article 50, votes to stay outside the EEA and the customs union, then votes to stay outside the single market is most definitely a Brexit party
The rest of the half in/half out partnership bollocks is just flannel
So far no-one thinks it should be privatised, I am however wondering the best way to point out who they are voting for wants to privatise it.
Suggestions please.
Ask them “Are you serious? Why are are you betraying our party? Whether you are UKIP or straight Brexit this is our policy. It’s what we believe.”
Looks like she’s giving it another go...
https://twitter.com/polhomeeditor/status/1128388231958081537?s=21
With or without a deal with labour?
Yeah, right. She must have had the nod off magic grandad as they both know they’re about to be wiped out at the EU elections
Labour Three line whip/stitch up/desperate mutually approved skin-saving exercise imminent
How has it been changed?
Civil servants have gone over to talk about possible changes to the political declaration … the fact that no minister has gone might mean that the tweeks being sought are for a cross party cook up … or it might just mean that May doesn't trust her ministers not to (further) antagonise the EU team when the request is made for changes in line with the Malthouse unicorns to get more Tories on side.
And on the Brexit bonanza front: https://news.sky.com/story/british-steel-seeks-new-75m-taxpayer-loan-to-avert-collapse-11719704
I just hope every time Farage appears the interviewer asks him about his plans for the steel industry...
Farage's party is shadier than Rich Energy its not a party as such just a money laundering machine it seems
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/05/14/brexit-party-donations-an-open-invitation-to-launder-money/
hes getting away with launching a party with no manifesto & electing some absolute arses to not represent us as MEPs,
hes cost the country £bns, lies constantly, yet people still vote for him, Ill admit Im puzzled
He's a monster, and either a genius or a genius' stooge.
Labour Three line whip/stitch up/desperate mutually approved skin-saving exercise imminent
Yes because after the tories have announced they wont keep to it and plenty of Labour MPs have made it clear they would be likely to disobey it anyway the Labour leadership would go with it anyway.
You have thought this through havent you?
Ill admit Im puzzled
The problem is faith in politicians has been so dented and people feel so unrepresented that they will just grasp at straws. He is also give a hell of a lot of airtime and rarely properly challenged on his lies. Even when it happens though, as Marr sort of did, he just uses the time honoured whining about being picked on.
binners
Subscriber
Yeah, right. She must have had the nod off magic grandad as they both know they’re about to be wiped out at the EU elections
Labour Three line whip/stitch up/desperate mutually approved skin-saving exercise imminent
Ironically, you're basically this thread's Theresa May. Claim of imminent stitchup failed last week? Just do it again! Nothing has changed.
Voucher bet still available?
hes cost the country £bns, lies constantly, yet people still vote for him, Ill admit Im puzzled
Populism. It works for the people who don't want to think about things.
He needs stopping, not supporting, and one of the main parties needs to drop support for his Brexit and make a stand…
In more cognitive dissonance news....
Theresa May urges world leaders to follow UK in online terror content crackdown
If only we were part of a large group of nations that could work together, in unison, to combat such things through legislation in our common interest?
If only we were part of a large group of nations that could work together, in unison, to combat such things through legislation in our common interest
So at a global meeting - why is this even relevant?
And we won't even discuss the action of successive Governments to breed terrorism and extremism in the first place.
It's alright being pro-EU or whatever but at least recognise it's not always the solution to every problem. Far from it.
It’s alright being pro-EU or whatever but at least recognise it’s not always the solution to every problem. Far from it.
What an odd thing to say
Because in this case it very much is a solution, we can propose just those very laws as members & see them implemented for 500milliom people, in one of the world's most influential political powers.
Unfortunately the Brexit party is set to elect 3 former RCP members who believe in just the opposite https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/25/people-should-free-watch-child-porn-jihadi-videos-online-says/
[img] 
[/img]
18 months old and already smarter than 52% of the population
Yeah, there’s no contradiction at all with calling for international co-operation while pursuing a policy that is isolationist and divisive, is there?
He needs stopping, not supporting, and one of the main parties needs to drop support for his Brexit and make a stand…
How do you stop Farage/brexit by deliberately losing the next election? Because that's what labour will be doing by taking a position against the referendum result.
@Shackleton- never mind the poster your child is trying to explain continental drift to you- now pay attention to the toast!
You're assuming that Labour won't pick up any votes from the "metropolitan elite" or even just plain old sensible remainers who are deserting/not even considering them because of their current Brexityish stance. It was as good as 50/50 and it's not divided across party lines and how many Labour voters are REALLY going to put a cross in a Tory/UKIP/Farage box on the day? That's a big leap.
by deliberately losing the next election? Because that’s what labour will be doing by taking a position against the referendum result.
They'll lose anyway with this leader, however do you think the resurgence of the lib Dems and the gains of the Greens in local elections happened by accident? Labour are losing votes NOW
Corbyn and Farage want the same thing.
Anyone who agrees with Farage is a ****.
And so we head for another PMQ's where Jeremy can talk about anything else other than the elephant in the room
What do you reckon we'll be covering today instead? I'm going for rural bus services. We've not had that one for a while
Those bloody Scottish buggers will probably spoil things by bringing Brexit up again, but Jezza and the Maybot will just stare across at each other and agree that neither of them heard the 'B' word. La La La ... we're not listening
Then they can return to sorting their stitch-up, like it never happened
Corbyn and Farage want the same thing.
Anyone who agrees with Farage is a ****.
🤣
...how many Labour voters are REALLY going to put a cross in a Tory/UKIP/Farage box on the day? That’s a big leap.
If this is in the GE it will be enough to break the two party strangle hold ...
While the two party system does indeed need smashing, I seriously doubt fascism would provide a preferable alternative
Anyway... compare and contrast. Here's Barry Gardiner from Sunday Sounds pretty damn Brexity to me
Asked if his views showed Labour was now an officially pro-Brexit party, Gardiner said the bulk of its MPs had backed remain in 2016. “But when that referendum came in, we said, ‘Look, we made you a promise that what you decided is what we would do’,” he said.
While the two party system does indeed need smashing, I seriously doubt fascism would provide a preferable alternative
The voters will determine whatever system there will be regardless in a democratic election.
In the bad old days of the British Empire, the UK was the master of divide and conquer.
It would befriend one faction, promise the earth, sow discord until the factions were at each others throats, then step in and before they knew it, they were in the empire, trade deals were one way and only to the benefit of the UK, and if you objected you could end up strapped to the front of a cannon or simply massacred, or bombed and gassed.
America was won like that, one tribe at a time.
Now it is the Empire, the EU is the target, and the weakest link? The old Empire.
Who's being getting the big bribes and future investment opportunities in our denationalised infrastructure? Who owns the media that "informs" us and sows discord?
Follow the money, because sure as fate it isn't the femme...
Looks like their version of a trade deal for us is dumpster diving...
The voters will determine whatever system there will be regardless in a democratic election.
Indeed...
Told you Farage would be heading for PM.
"People like Coldplay ... "
👆😂
Farage won't be pm as he would quickly be found out as bloody useless. He will bugger off and form another party then continue moaning about everybody else.
Farage won’t be pm as he would quickly be found out as bloody useless.
Boris Johnson was appointed Foreign Secretary, where he proved to be not only be utterly and completely useless, but a total national embarrassment
He is presently odds on favourite to succeed May as PM
The way this country has been heading the last few years, I wouldn't discount anything
Told you Farage would be heading for PM.
I really doubt it. He is slightly more selfaware than Boris blowhard and I really doubt he wants to be in a position where he is actually having to do proper work and make hard decisions.
Its why his rebel position on the EU suited him so well. Could rake the money in but the worse job he did representing his constituents the more he could rant and rave about the EU.
If he actually had any real work ethic he would have been representing the UK properly rather than just popping up like a bad smell occasionally.
Unfortunately he will continue to have a totally disproportionally toxic and corrosive effect on our politics
Why would he want to be in a position where he would actually have to take responsibility for what he says, and own the consequences?When other people will do your dirty work for you, out of fear of losing votes?
Lets face it, the Tory party is now fully embracing every single policy the nicotine-stained man-frog has always advocated. His job is done, really. He's successfully dragged government policy right round to his nasty, bigoted, right-wing view, while maintaining his ludicrous 'man of the people' routine. And it doesn't look like its heading back in the other direction any time soon, if ever
That's how people described Trump … look at him now …
“But when that referendum came in, we said, ‘Look, we made you a promise that what you decided is what we would do’,”
FFS that's not pro-brexit, it's simply honouring a democratic vote. I still can't get my head around why people can't grasp this simple point.
Unfortunately he will continue to have a totally disproportionally toxic and corrosive effect on our politics
Not least because the natural opposition to the likes of Farage, and many of it's supporters, are currently engaged in a completely pointless and self-defeating argument about what their leader may or may not believe, even though the party has a long established policy which was the result of an open and transparent democratic process.
It's fairly simple really. If you want to defeat Farage and prevent him gaining any form of power or influence, there's only one way to do that, and that's to vote for whoever has the most chance of removing the tories in your constituency. If it's a (very) safe labour seat, by all means vote libdem or green, but if it's anything else then a vote for anyone other than labour is a vote for the tories and Farage and their no deal brexit.
FFS that’s not pro-brexit, it’s simply honouring a democratic vote.
HAH! Was this the one that would have been nullified had it been a legally binding referendum? If you are holding the referendum to that level of democratic accountability, then the legality of it needs to be considered as well.
Oh and.....
Free range bananas!!
How do you stop Farage/brexit by deliberately losing the next election? Because that’s what labour will be doing by taking a position against the referendum result.
Is it a "position against the referendum" or simply taking up a position for a 2nd clarifying referendum to end stalemate in the commons and move the country on?
BoJo or whoever moggy gives the nod to will most likely win the next GE even if Jezza carrys on riding the populist Brexit bandwagon...
But Labour are driving voters away just as much by failing to differentiate themselves from the Torys on the one topic parliament seems to be debating.
Instinctively left leaning voters (like me) who would have defaulted to Labour are being drawn by the policies of the remain supporting parties like the LDs simply because of this one issue...
I won't be voting Lab or Con for the EU elections, there's plenty of others to choose from that better reflect my values...
And come GE time I amd now very much a "floating voter"... I don't think I am unique in this now.
Stop being a floater. Ether stick to the pan or sink to the bottom
Instinctively left leaning voters (like me) who would have defaulted to Labour are being drawn by the policies of the remain supporting parties like the LDs simply because of this one issue…
I won’t be voting Lab or Con for the EU elections, there’s plenty of others to choose from that better reflect my values…
And come GE time I amd now very much a “floating voter”… I don’t think I am unique in this now.
Indeed. As as instinctively right leaning voter I am coming to the same conclusion from the opposite direction. Very sad.
Instinctively left leaning voters (like me) who would have defaulted to Labour are being drawn by the policies of the remain supporting parties like the LDs simply because of this one issue…
I won’t be voting Lab or Con for the EU elections, there’s plenty of others to choose from that better reflect my values…
And come GE time I amd now very much a “floating voter”… I don’t think I am unique in this now.
Exactly this, ×1,000,000
I won’t be voting Lab or Con for the EU elections, there’s plenty of others to choose from that better reflect my values…
Fine for the euros as they’re completely meaningless. How will you vote in the approaching general election though?
If Corbyn gets the fence out of his arse I would vote Labour for the first time in my life.
Realistically , Lib Dem.
I'm sure someone will have worked out how much of a swing to Farage can be absorbed by both parties without taking too many seats off each.
Next GE will be very interesting.
Lib Dem will come in second and Cable will be jumping for joy, rubbing his hand with glee and salivating, as he will get to choose who he wants to "jump into bed" with; while Tories and labour will have long faces in the next GE. British politics will change forever ... I hope.
Bring it on! Woohoo!
I don't think the LDs would go into anything with the Conservatives after the shafting they got the last time.
I could maybe see a supply and confidence arrangement (if that's the right phrase? What the DUP currently (or did have) with the tories) with labour rather than a coalition.
I'm not sure the Euro elections are completely meaningless. It is a chance to show main parties whether you agree with their stance or not.
After voting labour in last GE and for that to be taken by Jezza's accolytes as a vote for Brexit rather than a vote to stop May, I don't want to make the same mistake again. I'll almost certainly vote Lib Dem.
No idea who'll I vote for in next GE. Instinctively I'll try to stop the tories and we have a good local labour MP but I am massively pissed off by the whole 'you voted for Brexit' BS.
I don’t think the LDs would go into anything with the Conservatives after the shafting they got the last time.
We are talking about LD here as they have the mentality of being in to have a "say", just like the way the want UK to be in to have a say in EU.
If there is No majority from any party there will be another "confirmatory GE vote", within 3 months, until the desire result appears.
We are talking about LD here as they have the mentality of being in to be in to have a “say”. Just like the way the want UK to be in to have a say in EU.
If there is No majority from any party there will be another “confirmatory GE vote” until the desire result appears.
Meanwhile back on planet earth, GE votes are legal, unlike brexit and May's WA minus the backstop if the extreme right wing of the tories has anything to do with it.
We might even see a multi party agreement between labour, lib dem and green, if if it keeps the bloody tories out.
A multi party government might be quite good for keeping the fascists at arms length.