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Anyone watching Dispatches on C4? First couple of folk interviewed run businesses (farmer and care home owner) that rely on foreign workers but they voted for Brexit and now wondering how they’ll cope. Jesus wept.
I remember watching something just before the referendum where they were interviewing a couple who ran a coffee shop in Newcastle and a few of their staff. One of the owners said "I'll vote out, but not for me, it's for people like her (an employee) who are struggling. If we leave the EU and cut down on the immigrants then their wages will go up because they're really struggling to get by at the moment". But she was the one setting their wages. She could have paid them more at any point. By her own admission, she was making plenty of money from the business, she just chose not to give more of it to her staff, but was voting out so that someone else would pop up and pay them better.
A bill to extend the Brexit process and avoid a no-deal scenario has been given an unopposed third reading in the House of Lords and will now go back to the Commons.
Commons leader Andrea Leadsom said the government would not stand in the bill’s way and would schedule time for a debate tomorrow if it gets royal assent this evening.
Just now...
Hopefully it's not passed queenies bed time.
Judging by the traffic on here last couple of days it seems like everyone is utterly jaded by the whole thing. I know I am. A couple of weeks ago I was glued to the news, now I barely bother because, well, there’s nothing new to know. Maybe that’s the plan? Bore us all into accepting whatever is served up? It could be a pretty effective strategy!
Although judging by the increasingly desperate attempts by brexit nutters to depose May maybe there is cause for optimism?
If the mainlanders reject may's grovelling for an extension how does what does that mean for the above law?
Hopefully it means revoke.
That's coz nothing has changed, May won't drop her red lines, Corbyn doesn't want responsibility for the farce.
Parliament have given up voting on it, because they have no idea how to sell it the the voters
Terrified of no deal forced to eat humble pie of euro elections
The power is where it's always been, with the EU right now they're deciding how long an extension they'll give us.
Taking back control, Brexit style
Well having been away riding for the weekend, some stuff has happened and some quite significant stuff at some levels.
The EU want to offer us a long extension as otherwise we will be back again.
The tories are at their most unstable and unpredictable at the moment
Labour are not sure what is going on but the conversation about revocation is not getting more use at higher levels, it's now getting closer to the table.
Couple that with May's This or no brexit at all lines and it's starting to be the options up for choice now
Confirmation Vote on the decision is becoming more likely as a condition to get something through otherwise the decision parliament gets to make is No Deal or Remain.
Bore us all into accepting whatever is served up?
I genuinely thought that was your plan.
I don't believe Macron's up for offering any sort of extension and if he says 'non' that blows everything up.
He is integrationist, federalist and has grand visions for the EU's future; mustn't forget that he's also about sending a strong and clear message to other countries.....do you really want to go through the shit the UK are drowning in?
May can't do charm and persuasion so Macron is totally outside her sphere of influence.
I don’t believe Macron’s up for offering any sort of extension and if he says ‘non’ that blows everything up.
.....
May can’t do charm and persuasion so Macron is totally outside her sphere of influence.
If a few are to be believed Macron is playing bad cop while Barnier gets to play good cop, at this point May can't but doesn't need to charm Macron, it's Tusk etc that will have the plan and we are being played as we have been all along. At the moment the EU are trying to look after Ireland (one of their own) and will play all they can to make that happen.
The current leaders are wearing red/yellow shirts in the away party
http://digg.com/2019/star-trek-shirt-color-death-data-viz
the ones we know the name of all work for the EU
And a no deal has just been rulled out by the house of Lords. At least for this month.
So it's..
1)May's withdrawal agreement (lol)
2) year long flexible extension
3) revoke and try harder next time
My money is on 2).
May can’t do charm and persuasion so Macron is totally outside her sphere of influence.
We've seen strong angry may, cuddly sofa may , can we expect sexy temptress may next?
I genuinely thought that was your plan.
Well then you have genuinely misunderstood everything I have said 😉
Honestly though I don’t have a plan, only an opinion. And it’s the same as it always was, to find a solution that cuts across the divide and has some hope of reversing the divisions rather than amplifying them.
President Macro should stand firm by not given even an inch.
He should be as tough or tougher as he can be otherwise he is weak. Very weak.
President Macro if you are listening I advise you Not to give an inch to UK. 😂
Honestly though I don’t have a plan, only an opinion.
I thought it was to make us all give in and accept some kind of brexit - somewhere between cutting a foot off and all your limbs.
He should be as tough or tougher as he can otherwise he is weak. Very weak.
Ah the Bot is back on the Trump setting
zippy - that's an image I prefer not to have.
mike - I have little doubt that Tusk and the grown-ups have a plan of sorts but they need 28 signatures (27 plus UK) and I can't see that happening. I stand by my view about Non Macron.
can we expect sexy temptress may next?
Careful what you wish for 😀
sexy May
mattyfez - that's like one of the martians in Mars Attacks!
It's worse, it's 'mother' from futurama!
Make it stop! Quick, someone ban Matty!
mike – I have little doubt that Tusk and the grown-ups have a plan of sorts but they need 28 signatures (27 plus UK) and I can’t see that happening. I stand by my view about Non Macron.
At this point they have not deviated from the plan, each one has done their bit and read their lines as required. This has solidified the EU and brought them together, proving how common interest beats self interest every time.
Everything that can be said on here has been really
Tories are utterly falling apart which is the only good thing to come out over this. My bet now is on a long extension and second vote
Worth a read
54% say Britain needs a strong leader who is willing to break the rules.
https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/reports/audit-of-political-engagement-16
This is a sign as to where the current debacle has taken us, not so strange to see the military being trusted more but also judges are on the trusted list too.
It was of 5live today with people interviewed wanting a strong leader to sort it all out. Somebody who can fix it all regardless of the consequences.
Is this the point where we count the few good men who did nothing?
Everything that can be said on here has been really
Yup. We just need to wait for our failed UK government to realise it.
Even if there was a GE and the tories gotthe boot Labour would be in the same check-mate situation.
The EU position is the same, the Belfast agreement is the same.
There's no point in a change of UK government at this point as neither tory or Labour have a plan. Labour might be in a stronger position (in the eyes of the UK public) as they are not currently in the hot seat.
But for anyone outside the UK, especially governments across Europe, all they can see is a bunch of rats fighting in a sack between themselves.
Maybe one rat will survive before the whole sack gets thrown into a river with a couple of bricks for good measure.
Labour would not be in quite the same position - although split its much less fundamental - and they have differnt / less red lines so could actually make a deal that might well pass ( BINO). Too late tho for that now
42% think many of the country’s problems could be dealt with more effectively if the government didn’t have to worry so much about votes in Parliament.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LETS BRING BACK MUH DEMOCRACY BY KILLING IT TO DEATH!
Do people actually want mobocracy? Referendums and simply an executive to enact them?
I am starting to favour the Chinese model of governance.
they have differnt / less red lines
FoM
As ever, the Daily Mash has it's fingers on the national pulse....
What odds on Maybot revoking A50?
Anything longer than 10-1 is worth a tenner.
William Hill offering 10-1 on revocation of A50 by 13th April.
Where's that tenner I've been saving?
Conservative Sir Bill Cash, speaking as MPs debated the European Union (Withdrawal) (No 5) Bill, moved an amendment to prevent the holding of European Parliament elections.
Sir 'Bill'... 'Cash' .. That just says it all.
What a name.
emily maitlis repeatedly calling Mark Francois a 'unicorn dreamer' who killed brexit on Newsnight was niiiice
In other news
The legislation to extend the Brexit process in a bid to avoid a no-deal scenario has received royal assent and has become law.
Passed by 390 - 81; TM - can you feel the pressure ratcheting up even more?
I think all I can say now is 'roflcopter'.
Tempted to bung a tenner on that revocation bet.
Sadly, gut says though that Tusk et al will offer an extension but it will be 'a year or nothing' and May will grudgingly accept. Cue two elections and more of the same until this time next year...
The legislation to extend the Brexit process in a bid to avoid a no-deal scenario has received royal assent and has become law.
Unelected millionaire heiress with Germanic family ties millionaire blocks Brexit.
Unelected millionaire heiress with Germanic family ties millionaire blocks Brexit.
God save the Queen.
😀
Kimbers : Emily Maitlis has been taunting the rabid delusional brexiteers with increasing vigour over the previous few weeks, her utter destruction of Jacob Rees Moog was a highlight, to see him stammering away as she verbally castrated him with a sly grin on her face was brilliant in its effectiveness.
All Labour channels on full bullshit mode saying that the vote insisting the PM ask for an extension (she was going to anyway) ensures that a no deal Brexit cannot happen. It can. As soon as this week. A nation served only by liars now. They think we're all idiots.
Law or not, it makes no difference. No deal is happening on Friday. Up to the people in charge to change it.
Hugh Merriman MP (asst to Hammond) is going to talk at a PV rally calling for a public vote in order to get deal through. He wants Mays deal vs Revoke
calling for a public vote in order to get deal through. He wants Mays deal vs Revoke
With hindsight the initial referendum should have been in two parts.
Q.1
Do you wish the goverment to begin negotiations to leave the EU.
Q.2
Do you wish the goverment to enact the negotiated leaving deal.
But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Ahhh… time to be reminded of that Mogg quote on two referendums…
https://twitter.com/alikhrh/status/1114894677830971393?s=21
…and a fun bonus old quote, about the nonsensical approach of withdrawing from the EU.
Judging by the traffic on here last couple of days it seems like everyone is utterly jaded by the whole thing. I know I am. A couple of weeks ago I was glued to the news, now I barely bother because, well, there’s nothing new to know.
Yup, that's where I'm at. Thoroughly depressing. 🙁
Cue two elections
Mobilise the remain voters in the EU elections. Kick out the Eurosceptic MEPs. Keep ratcheting up the pressure.
Even farage says he wants an 12 to 18 month delay so that they can get a more Leave pm.
Of course leavers will blame May or Corbyn. What they are unlikely to accept is that the very idea of leaving is incredibly difficult without severe harm, and that's what we're facing.
Mobilise the remain voters in the EU elections. Kick out the Eurosceptic MEPs. Keep ratcheting up the pressure.
Post Brexit delay, I think this is absolutely critical if Remain want the Gov to take notice of how people are feeling. If UKIP/Brexit Party/EDL/BNP types gain votes and MEPs in the upcoming Euro elections then I foresee a hard Brexiteer PM taking control of the tories and it will further harden tory resolve to get a hard Brexit done.
This might be Remains only chance to make a difference at the polls as both Labour & tory manifestos are committed to respecting the Referendum result. For Remainers to not vote in the EU elections for a Remain MEP could prove very costly indeed.
It’s an opportunity to block Farage from being re-elected and stop his pension isn’t it?
Surely that should be the priority for the country now.
How many MEPs would a Revoke party get with 6 million votes?
How many MEPs would a Revoke party get with 6 million votes?
Depends on location of course, but last Euro elections we had a 12m turnout. I suspect most Gammon Leavers will 'boycot' the whole thing (I wonder how Farage will try to spin it to try to keep his pension) but I suspect UKIP to lose their arse.
but I suspect UKIP to lose their arse.
They will also be competing with Farages fan club or whatever the name of the new party he created.
Are the TIGgers actually an official political party yet? That you could actually vote for?
At any upcoming elections, EU or otherwise, we presently have a choice of:
Tories: Chaotic, incompetent Brexiteers who want to return to the 1800's, destroying the economy in the process
Labour: Disengaged, incompetent Red-Unicorn Brexiteers who want to return to the 1970's, destroying the economy in the process
UKIP: Bunch of Islamaphobic Nazi's
Farageworld: Isn't Nigel Great? Lets tow Blighty out towards the mid-Atlantic
Lib Dems: Who?
Given that Brexit is the only game in town right now, I reckon that makes 50% of the electorate who's votes are presently going begging
But this time (and I can't see many voting UKIP);
EU citizens living in the UK will be able to vote in the next European Elections, that will be held on May 2019. But their eligibility to vote will change compared to the previous elections on 2014.
Are the TIGgers actually an official political party yet?
That's their plan apparently.
I think they will do very well. People are more inclined to vote radically in 'other' elections i.e. non parliamentary.
Post Brexit delay, I think this is absolutely critical if Remain want the Gov to take notice of how people are feeling. If UKIP/Brexit Party/EDL/BNP types gain votes and MEPs in the upcoming Euro elections then I foresee a hard Brexiteer PM taking control of the tories and it will further harden tory resolve to get a hard Brexit done.
Most people will have 2 shots, local elections first then the EU, Tories are panicking about losing councils over this as True Blue Tory voters (about the only ones who turn out for local elections in those areas) can't support talking to a Marxist Terrorist and will vote elsewhere in protest. Taking votes to either Lib Dem or others might make a big change in the local level and really make life hard for May.
It would also be a good springboard of publicity for any EU elections.
Are the TIGgers actually an official political party yet?
They are trying to turn themselves into Change UK (although the existing political group Change aint happy about it for some reason) keeping independent in it as a tag line and have claimed that they have several hundred candidates waiting.
They still have to come up with a coherent set of ideas though and explain given that outside of brexit they will make tories/labour appear of one mind how they can be an effective party.
Are the TIGgers actually an official political party yet? That you could actually vote for?
At any upcoming elections, EU or otherwise, we presently have a choice of:
Tories: Chaotic, incompetent Brexiteers who want to return to the 1800’s, destroying the economy in the process
Labour: Disengaged, incompetent Red-Unicorn Brexiteers who want to return to the 1970’s, destroying the economy in the process
UKIP: Bunch of Islamaphobic Nazi’s
Farageworld: Isn’t Nigel Great? Lets tow Blighty out towards the mid-Atlantic
Lib Dems: Who?Given that Brexit is the only game in town right now, I reckon that makes 50% of the electorate who’s votes are presently going begging
Im glad we have the SNP option in Scotland.. Even though you seem to have forgotten that there is life outside of London and the English parties.
I've said it many times: I wish to god we had the equivalent of the SNP south of the Border. I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. I now plenty of people, utterly despairing at the present hopeless, unelectable state of the labour party, who share that opinion
Lib Dems?
Agreeing with Binners again. This thread is annoying.
Do the LibDems pick their leader before the European Elections? Could be a bounce for them… or be the end of the party's support.
The Change UK lot need some of the Tory & Labour MEPs that have been treated poorly by their parties to formally join them, if they want to get the ball rolling… and ideally some of the other really good (yes there are) MEPs of both parties that have spoken out about the effects of Brexit.
Yep the complete abandonment of the Lib Dems is one of the reasons we are here at the moment, a 2nd bloc of full on remain MP's in parliament would have helped over the last 3 years. Again if you can't vote for Labour why not vote lib dem?
I can see some of the Change/TIG doing OK on name recognition but as a group they need to get some kind of broader position down on record or at least declare they are simply pro EU and will vote as they see on issues but adopting a centrist agenda
Labour: Disengaged, incompetent Red-Unicorn Brexiteers who want to return to the 1970’s, destroying the economy in the process
You've been reading the sun again haven't you? 🙂
"if you can’t vote for Labour why not vote lib dem?"
because in our constituency we would end up with a Tory MP.
Liam Fox bleating this morning, seems being in a Union with the EU, without having a say on it's direction is a bad thing, who'd have thunk it. "If you're not at the table, you're on the Menu" apparently.
It's *almost* starting to feel like the Brexiteers really wanted something far more radical than their referendum, knowing it wouldn't fly with voters and now realise they might be blamed for the fall out.
So - if May is legally forced to negotiate an extension, then the EU place conditions on it - they can make us do whatever they want nearly?
Yip. 'Taking Back Control' now involves us doing whatever the EU demand or our economy implodes in a couple of days. They could literally insist that Theresa May runs around Strasbourg dressed as a clown and she'd have to do it. They know it, and she knows it
It's gone well, hasn't it?
“if you can’t vote for Labour why not vote lib dem?”
because in our constituency we would end up with a Tory MP.
In local and EU Elections? those are the next 2 on the list to be sorted.
“if you can’t vote for Labour why not vote lib dem?”
because in our constituency we would end up with a Tory MP.
This time. You've got to consider the longer term picture, or you will never see any change. Getting the LDs into second place would be a start. That might encourage more folk to switch next time. Or perhaps you think they should just suspend voting in your constituency for ever?
Finally something to put on a bus
https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/1115334395324456962
So 2.5 million Golden Retrievers a week for the NHS?
My wife's taken some students to Berlin for the week. They got to the Reichstag to find this parked outside.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Mays attempts to shift the blame for this shitshow onto Labour are so transparent, its ridiculous. Its actually laughable to think that it was ever going to wash. But unfortunately there's obviously a sizeable chunk of the population who are so thick, blinkered and wilfully ignorant I'm sure they'll happily swallow it, once the press hammer the point home with enough force
Anyone seen the running commentary from inside the asylum?
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1115571908165152769
Unelected millionaire heiress with Germanic family ties millionaire blocks Brexit.
What? Laura Kuenessberg?
Of course the brexiteer ultras are calling for a no deal - it's become talismanic to them, the shady Crosby-Johnson group has spent £1m on targeted advertising on social media selling No Deal as though it was spelled out in Project Brexit from day one.
Rory Stewart explains the nature of the problem quite succinctly here: http://www.rorystewart.co.uk/no-deal/
Anyone seen the running commentary from inside the asylum
For those who havent you are missing the joy of "I was in the army" Francois attempting a poetry reading. In fairness I have to say his talents as a reciter do outweigh his talents as an MP.
Mark Francois/Penfold is reaching for new epic levels of bell-endery. He's been banging on about being in the TA again. I'm pretty sure he never went any closer to a front line than the odd weekend on Datmoor, but in his head it looks like...
Of all the cockwombles in the ERG he really is the wobbliest cock