Maybe I'm one of the turkeys voting for Christmas but at this stage I'd happily see Britain leave the EU without a deal but with the caveat that we don't pay them a single penny in a 'divorce' bill...stuff 'em.
They will have to trade with us under WTO rules anyway and if anyone believes nonsense like flights over Europe and the UK will stop following no deal then they're delusional....things like that are as important to them as us, call their bluff....let the negotiating team do the maths and work out whether the UK is better off with a good deal and a massive divorce bill or no deal and withholding any 'divorce' money....if it's the latter then go with that and stuff honoring any agreements....the UK is a net contributor and has been for some time, the EU is downright lying if they say they won't miss our money.
Here is your weekly reminder that the rEU is the only big player supporting our proposals for joining the WTO after we leave the EU. All the other big countries and blocks have already said they are not happy about the terms, schedules and quotas we have requested. Something to consider before buying into the "we don't have to play nice with our partners because we can rely on WTO rules" nonsense.
espresso meaning forced not expresso meaning quick!
FFS chaps
Is there some coffee-ist thing about espresso and expresso?
This has made me literally vomit in outrage
deviant - without a deal flights from UK to Europe would be illegal. so they would stop. Same with transport of radionuclides so advanced medical imaging would soon be under pressure.
these things are not scare stories / bargaining points. there are laws about this sort of thing.
Dont be bringing facts into this that is practically cheating when dealing with a Brexiter...I wish i was just taking the piss with that but its largely true IME.
.let the negotiating team do the maths and work out whether the UK is better off with a good deal and a massive divorce bill or no deal and withholding any 'divorce' money.
They have, that's why they will pay the bill
No deal is still loose-loose but simple maths tells u we loose more than the EU, they are a bigger slice of our income , than we are of there's.
It's why THM keeps repeating that the government doth protest too much & they'll just roll over in the end.
The bus of lies never mentioned the bit where it would be a decade or so before we'd have spare cash for the NHS or anything else did it?
May cannot roll over on the money offered or ECJ adjudication or else she will be deposed. 80 rabid brexiteer tories have signed a letter to the 1922 committee that would mean a new contest for tory party leadership. they are holding this threat over her head in case of "backsliding"
It's why THM keeps repeating that the government doth protest too much & they'll just roll over in the end.
Not quite what I am saying, but....
I actually want them to play v hard ball at this stage. Like all bullies ^ they don’t like being stood up to. The Europeans need our cash. We know that, they know that. So it’s not such a one way trade
Junket would choke on his claret if we actually said ok guys, enoughs enough. If you don’t want to negotiate properly, the we are going to walk away.
That’s a crap outcome but they need to think we might just be stupid enough to do it. Otherwise it’s like Corbyn and the red button - pointless
Watching Davis making a prat of himself just resonates so well down the ages.
Puts me in kind of this total cluster****. Different era, same bullshit.
THM, so we walk away, no cancer therapy, no planes, etc....
Do you really think that the UK government are really that insane????
Do you really think that the UK government are really that insane????
I wouldn't necessarily want to test that theory as the Tories are unable and unwilling to get to grips with the swivel-eyed loons and risk splitting their shit shower of a party or losing MPs to the UKIP/NSADP/Broederbond or whatever they are marketing themselves as these days.
The temptation to be assuaged by what should be accepted norms of sanity is dangerous.
From what I can see there are only two polar/binary outcomes likely at the moment.
Brexit gets kicked into the long grass / ignored.
Cliff edge Brexit.
Given the last 18 months I wouldn't bet against the Tories taking the option to scuttle the ship and kill all the passengers rather than lose face by admitting this whole thing is a colossal mistake. Undertaken for the wrong reasons, voted for with the wrong motivations and implemented by tossers.
Tries once again to get some more realistic WTO talk going…
https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/uk-wto-leadership/amp/
We have to let the EU think so, otherwise what’s the point. They are screwing about playing three card poker, so we need to clll their bluff.
As I said otherwise it’s like having old jezza in charge of the red button - pointless
They are screwing about playing three card poker, so we need to clll their bluff.
We dealt the cards.
"this whole thing is a colossal mistake. Undertaken for the wrong reasons, voted for with the wrong motivations and implemented by tossers." The perfect Brexit analysis.
kimbers - MemberNo deal is still loose-loose
Instaban!!! 🙂
We dealt the cards.
Even better - we know where the 2 clubs is
And all the knaves.
Kelvin - unfortunately the remainers here understand the WTO option is nothing like as easy or good as the leavers want to believe. The leavers are sticking their fingers in their ears going "lalalalalala"
This assumes they are bluffingwe need to clll their bluff.
What makes you think they will capitualte and give in to our demands ? What exactly have you seen in their behaviour that makes you think they are going to "fold" to our demands ? It will be ike Greece here take this or piss off. we all know this.
That is just silly even by the standards you set on here.
Its criteria we either hit them or we dont that is it there is no negotiation at this point NONE.
True captain 😉
it's not like a game of poker, unless there's a variant I'm not aware of where your opponent knows exactly what's in your hand and yet you're still supposed to make believe that going all in is some sort of strategy.
They've done the same assessments as we have (you know, the ones we daren't release to our own parliament select committee) and know we have sod all in our hand.
But yep, load the chips up, Dave.
glitchy doubler
The key point is the EU are not bluffing. This is something the leavers don't want to understand. the integrity of the EU is the single most important thing to them. they will do nothing to jeopardise that and any deviation from the 3 key conditions would do so.
these 3 things are the hardest for the UK to compromise on thus it makes perfect sense to the EU to make them essential first steps. That and there is no solution to NI or citizens rights that will be acceptable to both sides.
Its also not bluffing when you hold the strongest hand and know you hold the strongest hand.
The saddest parts are that this is going exactly as I and many other remainers said it would and the damage is already being done to the UK economy
well said Jonv
cliff edge leaving will also leave 1 million uk citizens in the EU without any medical cover - and for many of them insurance will be impossible to get / afford
these 3 things are the hardest for the UK to compromise on thus it makes perfect sense to the EU to make them essential first steps.-
Indeed so they don’t have to negotiate. You are starting to get this now. Took some time but we are getting there
Easy to miss one very large item on the agenda - our cash!! Forget the rest. That is the EUs Achilles heel - always has been
Is it just me that thinks £40-50bn isn’t actually that big a number in governmental terms?
nearly 3 years worth of empty bus promises.
not compared to what we lose with WTO /no deal/angry EU people on our borders and NI being screwed.
theotherjonv - Member
nearly 3 years worth of empty bus promises
>6 years of the actual figure!
But even in a no deal would we still end up paying in for collaborative projects, science, policing, etc
Part of the reason people like me voted to leave is so we don't have to deal with these euro freaks and their colossal cash swallowing project of an ever more integrated Europe...factor in the dictatorial stance on negotiations and the lovely democratic way the Spanish handled the Catalan crisis (prosecutions for sedition looming FFS) and I'm more than happy to get far far away from these loonies...i appreciate they may have the same view/sentiment towards me.
Easy to miss one very large item on the agenda - our cash!! Forget the rest. That is the EUs Achilles heel - always has been
And it's also our Achilles heel. We stand to lose far more than that in the years following a no-deal Brexit.
The one correct theme you've kept going, THM, is the "there is no such thing as a good Brexit" line.
Why not just call the ****er off, then?
deviant - Member
Part of the reason people like me voted to leave is so we don't have to deal with these euro freaks and their colossal cash swallowing project of an ever more integrated Europe...factor in the dictatorial stance on negotiations and the lovely democratic way the Spanish handled the Catalan crisis (prosecutions for sedition looming FFS) and I'm more than happy to get far far away from these loonies...i appreciate they may have the same view/sentiment towards me.POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
Laudable honesty. At what cost are you prepared to do this?
Well we have already spent / allocated a billion pounds for this plus 8000 more bureaucrats. and thats just the preparation for leaving.
Deviant - and you prefr to be impoverished with a badly damaged nhs, reduced environmental protection, reduced worker protection, lower food standards etc etc.
A billion pounds has already been spent / allocated on this just on the preparation for leaving
It would have been a lot easier if the government had just granted a national 'Racism is OK Day' to let the swivel-eyes get it all off their chests every twelve months. Of course they would then moan when they got told to **** off by the local tandoori, but then because we 'won the war' the world owes us a living. 🙄
Why not just call the ****er off, then?
Hmmmm 😉
Interesting reading on the WTO options Kelvin
and I'm more than happy to get far far away from these loonies.
That'd be the flaw in your plan
We can't leave Europe, just lose* influence in the EU
*for sbob
That'd be the flaw in your plan
Ah, Blackadder.
"There was, of course, one tiny flaw in the plan."
"What was that then?"
"It was bollocks".
I do enjoy watching things like Blackadder and trying to draw parallels with Brexit.
It would be much better if old thick as mince Davis was more like Blackadder in that sketch (smart, but just pretending to be mad to avoid a cataclysm).
Or even like Baldrick (honest, but incredibly thick, but willing to be led by grown-ups).
Sadly he's lieutenant George. Incredibly thick, indoctrinated, and unwilling to countenance anything other than English 'superiority'.
But then they all get mown down equally at the end anyway, so what the heck. 🙄
tj, firstly I'm not convinced the 'impoverished' scenario is likely, as much as the doom mongers are pessimistic I'm optimistic...and secondly yes, it did come down to a decision that wasn't about money for me, it was done on the principle of rejecting an ever more integrated Europe, rejecting an over reaching European Court etc...if there is some financial penalty for that then I'm game, this country has been through worse.
You only have to look at how the EU treated Greece to see how big a bunch of pricks they can be and now with Poland and a few other countries being threatened with sanctions by the lovely EU for daring to administer their own immigration levels and not just taking the number the EU threw at them...i thought the EU was a collection of sovereign states free to make their own rules and laws?...the bureaucrats in Brussels don't seem to think so...nearly made me puke the other day when that prat O'Brien on LBC was telling a caller that countries in the EU have always been able to set their own immigration levels and that the EU has nothing to do with it!....in reality that's complete nonsense and the current actions of the EU towards Poland are a classic example of why I can't stand Brussels and the duplicity of conning people into thinking they (the EU) have nothing to do with overruling individual countries but dare to go against their decisions and they'll threaten you with fines, sanctions etc....classic bullying and I have no desire to live under that.
Part of the reason people like me voted to leave is so we don't have to deal with these euro freaks
You may find that we still have to deal with them - as I said before we will need to pair with them (and already are) to get anything our own way out of WTO. Also, we'll still live next door. Or are you leaving Europe?
