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you are you have got to be sh--tng me
https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824
MV4 then
That was funny
MV4 then?
This was more MV2.5 so think it would be MV2.5V2
At what point do we stop applying the word ‘meaningful’ to these vote
As soon as everyone misses May has called MV445848 and so dont turn up leaving her to pass it of course.
The one good thing is the ERG arseholes looking even more tosserish than normal and carry out rapid reverse ferrets. Clearly some people can be trusted to change their minds so long as they have gone to the right schools. Plebs though aint allowed more than one attempt.
Speak of arseholes. Shouldnt the March for Leave be assembling for the victory celebrations outside parliament about now?
mickmcd
Member
MV4 thenThat was funny
you may have missed my last post
https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824
Or go for a long extension, most likely 5 years imo, then call a GE and then restart the merry go round again.
Doubt the EU will agree tbh
There's no way on Earth the EU27 would agree to that, surely to gods.
extension time!
That is an assumption, probably what Tusk wants, but not in his gift. There is a risk that EU leaders will decide to lance the boil, quite a few EU correspondents are saying many people in the UK are overestimating the desire of EU leaders for the result to be overturned.
wouldnt blame them tbh
now that Tommy Robinson is on stage in parliament square addressing the leave rally, its not a good look for britain
No deal being put firmly back on the table by EU
"by the EU"? eh?
So will we have MV4 ?
“by the EU”? eh?
In the sense that it is up to them and they are briefing it is now a likely outcome.
In the sense that it is up to them and they are briefing it is now a likely outcome.
Nope still simple options available to the UK parliament....
Next steps have to be UK representative briefing the eu as to what we need the extension for.
Ball 100% in UK court here.
I’ve decided the only way to stay sane whilst following this is to not care, what’s the worse than can happen (please don’t answer that anyone).
I’d be delighted, given today’s vote of Ref2 (inc remain) passes on Monday, the obvious compromise then would be Ref2 - May v Remain, or WTO v May v Remian if the leavers are feeling very cocky.
The joker in the pack of course is JC and his deal.
My own personal wish though would be to be involved in the EU elections, and Farage being BLOWN THE **** AWAY - I believe as a sitting MEP in the event of Brexit he gets a pretty massive pension of sorts, if he’s unelected he gets SFA, although that might be a dream more than a fact.
Next steps have to be UK representative briefing the eu as to what we need the extension for.
No obligation for them to accept though, the assumption is they will, but it is an assumption and they are briefing no deal is now a likely outcome - obviously saying that potentially helps them achieve the outcome they want.
Will force us into choosing no deal or revoke, and theres massive support to avoid not deal in parliament.
Why are none of the news outlets talking about this massive elephant in the room, so soon, still too sensitive?
@mefty hence it's the next step - yes briefing no deal could be as it's near certain or it could also be to motivate the UK into talking about it....
At the moment if the UK does not go back to the EU we leave on no deal.
There is absolute minority support for no deal but that is it. However there is still not a majority of support for the other options. That is the big problem here, the blink and you miss it chance to pass a remain motion on the 12th is also on the table. It will take some massive political shift to revoke instantly but if people continue to frustrate it could be the outcome.
No deal being put firmly back on the table by EU
Ha ha!
"They made us Leave".
Perpetrations for Brexit in our neighbouring countries is far ahead of our own. We called it, they got ready for it, we sat around with our fingers up our arses waiting for the promised sunlit uplands.
UKIP leader was warning on Twitter that he had heard reports there were police plans to use water cannons on brexiteers and that there would be plants to aggregate (sic) marchers.
Yep, those water cannons that Boris bought for £300,000 and then were sold for scrap when Teresa May outlawed them.
****ing idiot.
There is absolute minority support for no deal but that is it. However there is still not a majority of support for the other options. That is the big problem here, the blink and you miss it chance to pass a remain motion on the 12th is also on the table. It will take some massive political shift to revoke instantly but if people continue to frustrate it could be the outcome.
I know which is why I said what I said on the previous page.
Blimey. DUP might be the first to do the obvious and say "we want Brexit, but this deal is SO shite we'd rather stay in the EU than take it". Any MP signing up to this will have to justify it for years to come. Oh, and any MP pretending that is the only option open to them is a straight out liar. If it's worse than membership, even to many of those that campaigned to Leave, it should be rejected, and we should either revoke or extend and find another way.
Anyone fancy a new board game?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brexittherealdeal/brexit-the-real-deal
It’s almost as if union is their middle name or something
There's a U in the middle of their name somewhere, for sure.
Wouldn't she need to disband it before resigning?
wonder when Mrs May is going to have Gina Miller bumped off out of spite for causing her all this grief.
Hoping there isn't a General Election. I think it'll just see the Conservatives given a majority in parliament.
I'm damned if I'll vote for the anti-Semitic Brexit-loving half-wit of a Labour leader. Suspect many people feel the same way.
hand the country over to an intellectual bunch
Do you have anyone in mind?
So vote for someone else.
Or is it still something something tuition fees?
A GE will solve nothing and just waste more time. It's a pathetic option.
The issue with the general election is the issue with all elections in the FPTP system.
The tories are rubbish at Brexit and their government is unlikely to fix any issues that led to the brexit vote anyway.
Labour will be just as rubbish at negotiating brexit and while they would likely be a bit more radical at fixing inequality in more general "governance" (basically what I see as the root cause of the brexit vote), they are still in thrall to the "will of the people" and their red lines that equal a rubbish brexit so will therefore not be in position to do anything about it since the country will be shafted and lacking in disposable cash to implement their plans.
I'd vote SNP in a GE. They're talking sense on Brexit and could maybe end up in a coalition to have some of that sense implemented. And if not, it keeps the Scotland leaving this shitshow behind and getting back in the EU on the cards.
But there's the issue - the SNP will never get in power in Westminster so my vote is probably helping the tories get in, which is what I don't want... but what else should I do? Labour will bollocks up Brexit, the Lib Dems won't get near government (sadly as I like a lot of their policies)...
The whole system is just useless. And no sitting government will change it as it will help keep them out of the power they all crave for its own end. Which basically goes back to why I support Scottish independence... this UK system will never ever ever deliver a government I want. So it gives a way out even if I would prefer to stay attach to all you lovely crumpet gobblers.
And with GEs, people think they are voting for a Prime Minister. But you vote for a party. If the tories get in we could end up with any lunatic as PM
The unlimited backstop is here to stay..
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's top Brexit official, has said British MPs will need to find a cross-party solution to resolve the current crisis.
"The only way to avoid a no deal now is for MPs to finally act next week & define a cross-party way forward," he said, following Friday's vote.
"If they do, we are ready to change the Political Declaration."
This can only come down to no deal or remain. Which was always what it would come down to once you strip out the can kicking and misdirection.
Yes there could be another election but that's just more can kicking regardless of who wins, the end game is the same 😀
brexit really has put the deficiencies in our political system into sharp relief, constitutional monarchy useless ineffectual outdated waste of time, fptp creates a combative politics where, compromise and consensus have no place. We really are a mess, mother of all parliaments my arse mother of all **** ups.
We really are a mess, mother of all parliaments my arse
The problem with being an early adopter is that you get to make all the mistakes which everyone else can then learn from. Its also hard to bin off the legacy and stop making those mistakes.
But there’s the issue – the SNP will never get in power in Westminster so my vote is probably helping the tories get in,
Only if Labour turn down the opportunity to work with the SNP.
Dear Brexiters,
A Greek immigrant has just won Masterchef.
Yours,
A Remainer.
A Greek immigrant has just won Masterchef.
Gaaaaarrrrgh!!! Where was the spoiler alert?!
Damn immigrants coming over here and winning our scripted reality shows.
Don't worry the politicians are going to look in their hearts and see that May is right.
sirromj
Member
Don’t worry the politicians are going to look in their wallets and see that May is right.
FTFY
Did anyone else notice the predominance of grey hair and old people at the pro Brexit march yesterday?
So... Dominic Grieve facing deselection. I'm hoping the Tories will lurch so far right they fall off a cliff.
May, the fourth be with you?
Did anyone else notice the predominance of grey hair and old people at the pro Brexit march yesterday?
There were a few younger men there and they all seemed to have very short hair
What a difference a week makes. Last weekend up to a million young and old protesting in a carnival atmosphere akin to a music festival.
Yesterday, up to a few tens of thousands, Tommy Robinson, arrests and loyalist flute bands.
I know whose future I would prefer.
Edit: too late. And out of context on a different page...
What a difference a week makes. Last weekend up to a million young and old protesting in a carnival atmosphere akin to a music festival.
Yesterday, up to a few tens of thousands, Tommy Robinson, arrests and loyalist flute bands.
I couldn’t help thinking they’ve got a catchier slogan though. ‘Leave means leave’ - it’s a simple/inane answer to anyone seeking a rational answer on how to progress.
toby young & claire fox on newsnight yesterday, were angry & bitter
blaming parliament, May, everyone for us not leaving
but they were complicit in this
claire Fox sat next to David Davis as he laid out how devastatingly effective plans negotiate with the EU, by demanding german car makers save us....
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1108155476011900928
toby young told us wed get a great deal from the EU because of our trade balance etc
& endorsed Norway option (he now calls that remaining)
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-facts-not-fear/
Im heartily sick of these brexiteers telling us that its remainers fault that brexit isnt what they promised
There were a few younger men there and they all seemed to have very short hair
A very very no longer a mate of mine is plastering Tommy Robinson all over his Facebook and falling out with people who don't agree with him .Wasn't a particularly simple lad but one of these who believed he was a leader but didn't see he was easily led...it's easy to see how the people get led up the path to ****ing stupidity
tommy robinson bringing out the best in people
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1111920592515747840
Common sense in the guardian yesterday.
The tragedy of this is that I'm almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely, instead of seizing the opportunity and uniting to put the final nail into the tories coffin, the labour party will return to it's obsession with Corbyn and tear itself apart as well. We'll end up with Boris or some other **** as PM because some labour MPs won't be able to swallow their pride.
Why is the path unclear,
When we know home is near.
Understand we'll go hand in hand,
But we'll walk alone in fear. (Tell me)
Tell me where do we go from here.
When does the end appear,
When do the trumpets cheer.
The curtains close, on a kiss god knows,
We can tell the end is near...
Where do we go from here
Where do we go from here
Where do we go
from here
Is it down to the lake, I fear?
The tragedy of this is that I’m almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely, instead of seizing the opportunity and uniting to put the final nail into the tories coffin, the labour party will return to it’s obsession with Corbyn and tear itself apart as well.
I agree. I am not a labour supporter ,(or a Tory supporter) but Crobyn doesn't seem to be doing much other than heckling from the sidelines and trying to make (limited) political gains. May seems crazy but Corbyn just seems weak with nothing else concrete to propose.
toby young & claire fox on newsnight yesterday, were angry & bitter
De facto Toby Young. Pure cock.
Lots opposing May's deal because potentially the backstop,the insurance policy that may be called upon if a trading arrangement isn't decided and so could mean a hard border between Eire and NI even though UK,Eire and the EU say they don't want one.
WTO rules/No deal/Hard Brexit = Hard border
Customs union, which now seems to be the flavour everyone is talking about also potentially means a hard border.
Am confused
The tragedy of this is that I’m almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely,
Plenty of people keep saying this. Can't see the Tories letting this happen.
An election won't actually be fought on Brexit by Labour - it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
Tinge / Change / Chukka party will try and fight on Brexit etc.
If it happens...
but Crobyn doesn’t seem to be doing much other than heckling from the sidelines
Or perhaps he's keeping his head down in order to hold his party together because it's so fragile that any opinion expressed either way will simply widen the cracks? Myself and others (TJ in particular) have asked many times what he should do and no one has yet offered a meaningful answer.
Corbyn just seems weak with nothing else concrete to propose.
Other than their party policy, which they have repeatedly and consistently pushed since last September, what would you have them propose?
Customs union, which now seems to be the flavour everyone is talking about also potentially means a hard border.
No. A permanent customs (EU/UK) union means the opposite.
EU/NI would be a hard border.
No. A permanent customs (EU/UK) union means the opposite.
EU/NI would be a hard border.
Are you sure?
"What about Corbyn’s plan to place the UK in a permanent customs union with the EU? This would certainly eliminate the need for customs controls to collect tariffs – as a customs union would eliminate tariffs on all goods crossing internal frontiers. But it would not eliminate customs controls entirely. This can be seen from the fact that between 1973 and 1992, the UK and Ireland were in a Corbyn-style customs union with each other (called the European Economic Community) and yet customs controls were maintained.
Member states of a customs union can maintain all sorts of regulations – such as health standards, agricultural controls and minimum product standards – and goods entering the market need to be checked for compliance with these. This is exactly what customs officers along the Northern Irish border were doing until the single market emerged in 1993.
Only in a single market are such standards harmonised or mutually recognised on a comprehensive basis – without the need for customs checks. This is why it was possible to abolish systematic customs checks along the border in 1993. "
Turkey is in the custom's union and has a hard border with the EU.
An election won’t actually be fought on Brexit by Labour – it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
In which case labour will be setting themselves up to fail
We have at least a decade of the much more complex future relationship to navigate.
In power of labor world be sucked into the same Brexit black hole as the Tories have been for the last 3 years, everything else will be pushed aside.
Bristol Museum exhibited Banksy’s Devolved Parliament for Brexit Day yesterday. Still there today. Quite a bit bigger than I’d thought. 😀
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/ZKGNccWQ/2-AB14-B2-C-D2-F9-4-BDC-A203-67-E1-B8911247.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/ZKGNccWQ/2-AB14-B2-C-D2-F9-4-BDC-A203-67-E1-B8911247.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Turkey is in the custom’s union and has a hard border with the EU.
Depends what you mean by a hard border. Switzerland isn't in the CU but you can travel freely from neighbouring EU countries. Goods have to be checked though.
Goods have to be checked though
.
Having goods checked at the NI border would breach the GFA.
For example if you have a warehouse on one side and a retail outlet on the other, you'd be getting customs checked constantly, which would be in direct contravention of:
• the right to equal opportunity in all social and economic activity,
regardless of class, creed, disability, gender or ethnicity;
If you compare that example to someone operating purely in NI, or purely in the rebublic, you wouldn't be subject to checks.
Therefore if you do conduct cross border economic activity, your right to equal economic opportunity would be breached.
An election won’t actually be fought on Brexit by Labour – it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
Which is why I voted Labour last time, since both major parties had the same view on Brexit. But now my MP says Labour stood on a platform of supporting Brexit so she has to support it…
Switzerland is in EFTA and is part of the singlemarket which is a lot closer than just the custom's union.
Having goods checked at the NI border would breach the GFA
So if that's the case then that rules out WTO(ERG) or being in the custom's union(labour et al) so makes opposing the backstop whether your ERG or Labour somewhat contradictory??
Unless neither side wants to apply checks......
The only deal that will be passed is one that lines the pockets of the elite and throws the normal's further into the gutter. If you voted leave or remain, it doesn't matter. Years of history will show you that those in charge only care for themselves and no one else. Until they agree on a deal that doesn't tarnish their political stance but furthers their social and financial status then you will get a conclusion to what is now a global fiasco.
So if that’s the case then that rules out WTO(ERG) or being in the custom’s union(labour et al)
That's how I read it, yes.
I'm not a lawyer, but the Belfast agreement is not a particularly long or complex document, it's written in very plain language, presumably so it can't be misinterpreted.
They could rip up the Belfast agreement, I suppose.
Disregarding International peace treaties isn't a good look though if you're looking to do international trade deals.
Apparently Nigel Dodds would rather cancel Brexit than see the break up of the UK.
That's about the only sensible thing I have ever heard from the DUP.
dazh
Myself and others (TJ in particular) have asked many times what he should do and no one has yet offered a meaningful answer.
Oppose Brexit.
Oppose anything that makes the elite even richer and the workers worse off regardless if what the policy is called.
Oppose Brexit.
You need think through how that would play out with labour voters, MPs within his party and with the media. Not a great idea.
Not if you've got a lack of bollocks, no I guess not.
Switzerland is in EFTA and is part of the singlemarket which is a lot closer than just the custom’s union.
Switzerland is not a member of the single market but does participate in it. The lack of CU creates considerable border friction for goods.
You need think through how that would play out with labour voters, MPs within his party and with the media. Not a great idea.
They are not exactly cleaning up at the polls with their current position.