stumpyjon
Subscriber
The ERG are no more the Tory party than Militant or Momentum are the Labour party. They are all extremist elements of otherwise main stream parties.
There's estimateed to be between 40 and 80 ERG MPs, recognised by and exclusively part of the Tory party, supported by cabinet members and publically funded- how is that comparable to Momentum, which have 0? or Militant, which have 0?
I'm sure the tories would love us to think it's some eccentric outlier but Leadsom, Grayling, Javid, Davis, Gove, Mordaunt, Duncan-Smith and Patel have all funded it (they refuse to publish a members list but these have all claimed expenses for funding the ERG)
5 million on the petition. #justsayin
Does anyone know a golfer that didn't vote to leave?
My brother and my cousins
Gove?
F no!
A backstabbing Judas if ever there was one..
If your going to unite a nation in something...hold on some people will actually think gove is a stand-up guy
Does anyone know a golfer that didn’t vote to leave?
Does anyone one know a cyclist who pays road tax?
Does anyone know a golfer that didn’t vote to leave?
My Dad. But I believe he is becoming increasingly unpopular at his golf club because he dares to point out one or two holes (no pun intended) in many of the arguments bandied around the clubhouse.
A couple of my mates are architects and golfing seems to come with that territory. They're both remainers.
I have a mate who plays a lot of golf. He voted leave.
He also signed the petition and supports a 2nd referendum
Does anyone one know a cyclist who pays road tax?
I don't know anyone who pays road tax.
BBC reporting that the Maybot has summoned some MPs to Chequers for an emergency summit.
All are the usual suspects – members of the ERG. So once again it looks like the headbangers are the only ones being consulted
Oh, what a jolly wheeze this all is for those making millions out of playing with the country as if it was their birthright to wield such power…
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109844167281254400?s=21
Let's please hope the poor little sod rebels and becomes a lion tamer or anything but follow in his father's footsteps.
Christ almighty that **** hunt is in the running!?
It's a very shallow pool of talent to choose from. Basically any tory could run for leadership and be in with a fighting chance of winning.
May will carry the cross until further notice.
Knocking on for 5.2 million now........
anyone see boris johnsons car?
Hunt's been building a leadership case for about a year. I guess what he can say in his favour is that few of the awful things he've done have been through incompetence, Tories lap that up. A health secretary who pursued a policy that killed and crippled people by deterring them from going to hospital? That's the sort of no-nonsense thinking we'll need post brexit.
as if it was their birthright to wield such power…
Well son? Do you want to play football and watch cartoons this afternoon or go tell the prime minister what to do...
So why exactly is that twunt mogg going along? Surely he's no more relevant than any other back bencher? Or does he hold some special position that I am un aware of...other than shouty right-wing baw sack ?
Well, they say Brexit is divisive, bit since spamming a bunch of friends on WhatsApp about the revoke petition my phone's never been so busy, in a good way.
anyone see boris johnsons car?
Didnt seem to stand out. Duncan Smith was looking a bit toad of toad hall though.
other than shouty right-wing baw sack ?
Leader of the ERG so speaks for a whole load of shouty right-wing baw sacks.
Curious the only people she is speaking with are the brexiteer lunatics.
So why exactly is that twunt mogg going along? Surely he’s no more relevant than any other back bencher? Or does he hold some special position that I am un aware of
Yeah ring leader of the ERG so effectively in control of 50-80 Tory MP's a sizeable faction.
She is only speaking to the Brexiteers is they are going to rebel and screw it up for her, she can probably cobble together enough support without them but they are going to rail for a hard brexit.
anyone see boris johnsons car?
No, but in my head it would look like a clown car, and I would post a picture of one if I could be arsed to suss it out.
I worry that the closer we are to getting this stopped (or at least voted on again) the more likely the ERG are going to panic & end up supporting May so as not to lose some form of Brexit. It's hugely frustrating.
In terms of them supporting her the issue she has is that she needs the ERG, DUP, most of her remain colleagues and possibly some Labour, she is going nowhere near the other 2 at the moment. For those against any kind of Brexit this weekend showed them it's possible and there is a decent amount of support from the people to push on,
It does beg the question who called the meeting?
Is that even a question?
They feel like they call the shots, hopefully it's more like putting in requests to the Titanic band
Also a quick look back at the petition map
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
Has quite a few Tory MP's in the 10-15% bracket for signatures that is going to start and hurt the ones she really needs who are the remainers in the party - or those not willing to see the entire world burn
Let’s please hope the poor little sod rebels and becomes a lion tamer or anything but follow in his father’s footsteps.
Safe to assume he is being groomed.
One thing that will come out of this sorry affair is a much wiser, angrier youth. With very good reason.
They’ve been utterly shafted by their older generations with grossly inflated education costs, increasing retirement age, pensions, housing costs, general living standards falling and now Brexit.
Expect some quality politicians rising through the ranks in ooohhh... 10-15 years.
What we are seeing now is the result of extended youth apathy with the likes of Dominic Raab rising far higher on the greasy pole than his abilities and intelligence warrant.
One thing that will come out of this sorry affair is
Whoever suggested petitions is going to be in a lot of trouble
5.3 😉
First member of the government [Mark Field] to say they'll vote in accordance with that petition. Being able to see the break down of the signatories by MP's constituencies might well have helped him make that move. If you haven't signed, do… it could help change the balance of pressures on your own MP.
Stunning isn't how removing the name on the deal suddenly makes it much better!! I can see why they are suspicious lead by donkeys might be ringing true for some of them
the prospect of the Farage like treatment of a rolling video screen following you showing how you railed against every reading of the bill. I'd pay for that to happen
What went wrong?
https://amp.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-4c03-11e9-bde6-79eaea5acb64
Has former Brexit secretary David Davis worked out that his plan to leave the EU while retaining “the exact same benefits” as staying in the single market, was a little ambitious? Or that the Germans actually care more about the integrity of the EU than about selling Brits BMWs? Has Michael Gove finally noticed that we did not after all “hold all the cards” the day after we voted to leave? Has anyone worked out that frictionless trade is quite complicated, and that the dreary Brussels machinery does a good job for us?
The whole piece is full of obvious sense… I won't cut'n'paste it all though, as the FT has a paywall (of sorts). You should get one free read.
https://petitions.acadweb.co.uk/overview/229963
For some comparison and maybe somebody needs to run the bot check 😉 The Leave with no deal just got the sort of boost that you know doesn't make sense 🙂
It's remainers rigging it to make them look dishonest
Curious the only people she is speaking with are the brexiteer lunatics.
You do understand that May still intends to enact Brexit, right?
I’m amazed bonnets hasn’t mentioned this; https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/08/poverty-and-climate-more-important-than-brexit-says-corbyn?CMP=share_btn_fb
What’s gonna happen this week then? Will the Tory remainers finally grow some balls and put country before their party? Amber Rudd, Gauke, Hammond, Grieve, Clarke et al are the only people preventing May’s fall and a softer, less brexity solution.
For my money I’m going for a collapse of the govt, no confidence vote and a new election. If that happens labour will need to campaign on a promise of a 2nd vote. It’ll be time for Corbyn to bow to the inevitable in addition to May.
Well the Sun want her gone (but with praise), Telegraphs wants Borris by the looks of it, the Express is just recycling headlines again 😉 Rest seem stuck working out if this is real or just a diversion.
The key for today is what people try and keep off indicative votes - rumours were there that they wanted to keep Revoke off the list cause you know nobody wants that.....
If the tories are looking to sub their leader is this a good time for labour to pull off their tired left back and put on a more attacking centre forward?
I’m amazed bonnets hashn’t mentioned this;
Great. Whaboutery, on this week of all weeks. What an utterly shite leader. Still, if you want Brexit and "your people" don't, then I suppose it's a plan of sorts.
Edit: oh… that link posted was from weeks ago… ignore me. I thought it was news.
Edit: My local Labour councillor said that he would have been at the march on Saturday, if the party didn't have a "day of action" doorstepping for the local elections on the same day. Which was planned first? Was this just coincidence, or a smart way of using the "party machine" to keep Labour people away from the March?
They’ve been utterly shafted by their older generations with grossly inflated education costs, increasing retirement age, pensions, housing costs, general living standards falling and now Brexit.
This crops up from time to time. Would you like to explain to me (65 years old) how I have shafted the younger generation?
how I have shafted the younger generation?
For the heinous crime of expecting a decent wage, decent public services and decent welfare provision, and then voting for parties/politicians who will deliver it.
We have all failed the next generation. Through our actions or inactions the planet and society is in a mess and we leave them precious few resources to dig themselves out of the hole we have dug.
how I have shafted the younger generation?
You can be shafted by "a generation" without an individual particular person from that generation having been active in that process.
For the heinous crime of expecting a decent wage, decent public services and decent welfare provision, and then voting for parties/politicians who will deliver it.
While deffering payment to somebody else, like the classic canteen sketch where the guy waves at somebody back down the line and says he is paying.
But as usual there is a big difference between individual and collective responsibility.
See the March at the weekend was well supported 👍👍
By people of all ages.
This crops up from time to time. Would you like to explain to me (65 years old) how I have shafted the younger generation?
I have also been part of that problem, or at least enjoyed some of the benefits you have done. Don't feel too special 😉
Seriously though, I have already stated what is challenging for the youth these days that older generations have taken for granted. Think about zero-hours contracts, unpaid year-long internships, housing shortages, students from lower-income families having grants abolished and leaving university with 50k debts, Junior position jobs requiring work experience... These are now norms, not extremes.
How much equity has your house accrued since you owned it? That's free equity from a prospering society that the younger generation are less likely to enjoy with greater austerity required by a hard Brexit.
If you can't see the inequality, it wouldn't take much time to do your own reading. I mean that without sarcasm and wish you a good day.
As for how this is related to Brexit? It's a complex issue. Has greater migration pushed up housing prices? Almost certainly. Yet the youth either haven't twigged that or the trade-off is worth it to remain in the EU. The other areas are government policy failings, hence why I feel more sovereignty for the government is a bad idea based upon track record.
I ma the older generation that has taken those things for granted. However, I have also voted against the parties that helped the decline of those things so not sure how I have exactly shifted anyone.
Good to see yet another Tory MP be prosecuted for Expenses fraud. Which means another Tory seat up for a by-election.
Typical Tory behaviour IMO.
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone is suggesting that all members of the gilded generation should be shot or anything. Please don't feel that you need to demonstrate your not-being-a-money-hungry-**** credentials.
Just accept that your generation has had it easier than both your parent's and your children's.
If you're going to argue against this then please try to do it without using the words '48 inch flatscreen TV'.
When people say the older generation has shafted the young, I don't think anyone means specific individuals are culpable. But the actions of governments over the last 30 years have dismantled or failed to invest the infrastructure that new generations need to progress and succeed, across the country either deliberately or accidentally. And the country relied on immigration to plug the deficit leaving an underclass of people trapped in low-skill jobs.
I'm in that generation, and I agree - we've had greater opportunity then any other generation, but at the cost of the younger ones. I don't really feel that I did anything "wrong", but it feels inequitable, and it does now affect some of my thinking/decisions.
We obviously dodged a bullet avoiding chaos with ed milliband
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1110110489235910656?s=19
Just accept that your generation has had it easier than both your parent’s and your children’s.
I completely accept that. What I don't accept is suggesting that the older generation set out to shaft the future generation. So no shafting, more going along with what was happening at the time just as the younger generation will do.
The older people in my family that voted for Brexit say they would now vote to stop it, if we are given another a role in deciding what we do next. Their generation as a whole may well not have moved this way.
Individuals. Generation. Different concepts. Understandy?
I’m in that generation, and I agree – we’ve had greater opportunity then any other generation, but at the cost of the younger ones. I don’t really feel that I did anything “wrong”, but it feels inequitable, and it does now affect some of my thinking/decisions.
The reason for raising this whole issue, is that I think the government(s) need to be held accountable for these failings that have suited them at the time, but not the younger generations inheriting this country and planet.
For me, the EU is a small price for keeping our Government in check. Losing that concerns me. Would we have working hours directive, cleaner water, better beaches, reduced pollution and cleaner environment and all the other improvements without EU guidance?
I don't believe we would, so where we go from here is worrying.
The daily Five Live Brexit phone in has taken a turn for the bonkers even by usual standards. Apparently this was all prophesied in the Bible, and we're in this mess because we have become a godless country
So there you have it. Its all gods fault! 😀
So no indicative vote, probably no MV3 as it wouldn't pass, um not sure what this leaves then.
I don’t think anyone means specific individuals are culpable.
Except Thatcher obvs.
I completely accept that. What I don’t accept is suggesting that the older generation set out to shaft the future generation. So no shafting, more going along with what was happening at the time just as the younger generation will do.
I don't think anyone suggested that the shafting was deliberate, rather a convenient blind eye turned to things like the impact of a pensions lock, dismissing the evidence for climate change etc. Will the younger generation do likewise? Probably. So what?
So here's today's choice of amendments:
Amendment D: Jeremy Corbyn
Calls on government to make time this week to find a majority for a different approachAmendment G: Tom Brake
Requires government to seek a 2 year extension of Article 50 to hold a second referendumAmendment A: Sir Oliver Letwin
Takes control of parliamentary timetable on Weds 27th to debate and vote on alternative ways forwardAmendment B: Will Quince
Reaffirms commitment to honour referendum result that UK should leave the EUAmendment C: Yvette Cooper
Instructs government that if deal is not passed, to set out by 28th March how it will stop a no deal Brexit on 12th April, including extending Article 50Amendment E: Anna Soubry
Instructs the PM to hold a second referendumAmendment F: Margaret Beckett
Orders that MPs be given time to vote on whether to leave EU with no deal or to seek an extension, if we get within 7 days of leaving the EU without a deal being passed
I'm guessing Bercow will chooise A, B & C
What I don’t accept is suggesting that the older generation set out to shaft the future generation.
Sincere apologies that it was taken in that way.
Amendment D: Jeremy Corbyn
Calls on government to make time this week to find a majority for a different approach
This is wishy-washy. Still holding out for some leadership to appear from Jeremy.
Well, we have defended the speaker lots recently… but those are poorly chosen amendments. So many more options available to us… yet so many of those amendments are similar and/or lack clarity.
but those are poorly chosen amendments
They haven't been chosen yet, maybe my post wasn't clear but those are the options available to the Speaker to select from.
Well ... what a surprise...
Government could ignore indicative Brexit votes, says Liam Fox
Liam Fox has indicated the government could ignore MPs’ views from indicative Brexit votes this week if parliament’s stated choice goes against the Conservative manifesto, insisting the real choice is still between Theresa May’s deal and no deal.
Do we actually live in a parliamentary democracy any more? Its starting to feel more like some tin-pot dictatorship by the day
Can we amend Disgraced Former.... Liam Fox to Liam "First Against the wall" Fox
Nothing will inspire a bigger vote for something than the prospect of the PM trying to wriggle out of it
Losing that concerns me. Would we have working hours directive, cleaner water, better beaches, reduced pollution and cleaner environment and all the other improvements without EU guidance?I don’t believe we would, so where we go from here is worrying.
If a hard brexit happens, we will be going to America, or should I say become part of it to all intents and purposes. Brexit is just another small key to unlock all the progress that is mentioned above. Those behind Brexit and their links to the Trump campaign, and those who influence policy through printed media, or social media(a texas oil Billionaire is the latest to being exposed as funding certain right wing media sites) have a view on the world that is firmly entrenched in the 20th Century, Pump oil out the ground, f the environment, free market, f the workforce, etc.
And of course subvert democracy, which is where the political party funding, the "think tanks", the written media and social media come in. I mean those millionaires and billionaires don't own newspapers so they can print unbiased "news" for all our benefit do they?
And what better way to subvert Democracy by getting people to vote against their own interests eh? That Jonathan Pie youtube vid I posted a few pages back was spot on about the last ten years where MP's have broken the contract between Government and the people, which sowed the seeds for voters to "democratically" vote to leave.
Its our fault though. We have tolerated a voting system that has been broken for a very long time, and just let what I would call the outcasts of other industries to become MP's not through qualifications, but through a popularity contest.
A few years ago this would have been tin foil hat territory, but did anyone ever think that when we won the right to vote, that those who had this exclusive option before were just going to let us plebs ruin it for them?
binners
Subscriber
The daily Five Live Brexit phone in has taken a turn for the bonkers even by usual standards. Apparently this was all prophesied in the Bible, and we’re in this mess because we have become a godless country
So there you have it. Its all gods fault!
Time for J.C to make a reappearance I reckon. Can you imagine if J.C had called for a 2nd ref at the march? Then fed everyone with bread, fish and chutney from his allottment!
I’m guessing Bercow will chooise A, B & C
Sorry… missed this.
Probably right
A&C the useful ones.
B is nonsense, it offers no way forward, but there needs to be something from the no deal Brexit camp in there, sadly. Parliament must hear them as well.
Just heard that the reading room on indicative votes this morning for Cabinet ministers was pulled
Yes, it’s because David Davies had finished doing his colouring in so the room was still in use.
B is the PR nightmare really, passed and it will be used to try and remove any remain option from further debate.
I'd be inclined to say that the give parliament control option will be last tabled such that it can be carried and take this away from the government.
I was in London on Saturday, along with 192,000 others (according to Leave.eu) or approx 1.6m others (according to the Met Police). The atmosphere was amazing, people of all ages and creeds, marching because they have been offered not a jot of compromise since June 2016. Forget the assertions about demographics - slowoldman will be delighted (I hope) to read that his generation were as well represented as the millenials.
We could not get into Parliament Sq, such was the crowd - much, much larger than in October 2018 when 215,000 people (according to Leave.eu) or 700,000 people marched. When we left at 4pm, there were still trainloads of people coming in to march.
We did not see one arrest. James O'Brien opened the public speeches with an appeal to remind us that those who voted to Leave are our friends and family, that we cannot blame them for being sold a lie.
Everyone who spoke was excellent, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Justine Greening, Caroline Lucas, Michael Heseltine especially so.
So
1.6 million people turn up to march wanting a second ref
1.6 people turn up to march for leave means leave
The cancel A50 petition is, what, the fastest signed petition ever run on the gov site?
So, will of the people is to leave, is it?
dazh
For my money I’m going for a collapse of the govt, no confidence vote and a new election. If that happens labour will need to campaign on a promise of a 2nd vote. It’ll be time for Corbyn to bow to the inevitable in addition to May.
Boris for leave vs Labour for remain/2nd ref with Corbs or A.N other.
5.34 million now, just saying....
Sadly its not going to make any difference, I was foolishly optimistic that it might give TM an inkling that not everyone is a hard right nutter. She clearly isnt, having seemingly pulled the concept of indicative votes from the government options. Reports on twitter that remain cabinent ministers will vote against indicative votes, despite it loosing last time by two votes.
Abandon hope, all ye who enter here
If they ignore a majority outcome in an indicative vote then the no confidence motion that will be placed I suspect will pass and we will be having an election (well actually 2 as we will be doing the European ones too, probably on the same date)
If we have a general election, won't we just be faced with the same choice as last time. 2 parties of useless self-serving muppets, both of whom seek to deliver some fantasy cake-and-eat-it Brexit?