I think I've figured it out. The plan was to demonstrate beyond all doubt that the British government was irredeemably incompetent, to the point that the UK population rises up as one and begs the Germans to invade us.
So no meaningful vote unless Govt. thinks it will wim but given the arthimatic, its never going to be reasoanbly certain. So what haooens? The whole thing is ludicrous
Bercow needs to kick these repeated attempts into the long grass.
I think the Maybot is probably curled up underneath her desk, sobbing.
Less than two weeks to go and nobody has got a ****ing clue whats going on, or what, if any, arrangements are going to be in place at zero hour
I've been saying it for ages that I can't see anything other than a no deal, purely due to the sheer biblical level of incompetence presently on display by the total bunch of clowns in parliament. No Deal is the default, so thats exactly what is going to happen
And parliament passing a motion ruling out no deal is like me passing a motion to say I can't be run over, then going for a stroll down the outside lane of the M62
Third enquiry this morning asking if I can supply deliver before the 29th...takes us a month to manufacture
Looks like the last batch was literally the last I can send before we have some semblance of what's happening
I think people there are worried too about where this is going.
I still think she'll scrape a deal through at the last
......... then we get to repeat the last 3 years on steroids because you can bet a shiny brexit 50p coin that no brexiteer has the vaguest clue how to make the much tricker future rlationship & trade deals work either.
this farce has a long way to run yet
the ONLY thing we know for sure is that it will be the fault of everyone, but those that voted for it
[i]"the ONLY thing we know for sure is that it will be the fault of everyone, but those that voted for it"[/i]
Yep.
Europe were mean to us. The "Remainers" are unpatriotic. Various "Leave" politicians have been misquoted. The general public are being "too literal" in believing that everything was going to be easy.
I have no idea whether Brexit will be better or worse for the UK. Only time will tell. What I do know is that this whole thing has been a disgraceful sack of deliberate lies from start to finish. Shameful.
I do know that the gammons will moan whatever happens.
Any jobs lost will be because it wasn't a hard enough Brexit.
The reason we're in this mess is because our useless politicians have spent decades using the EU as a handy scapegoat for their own numerous failings. It wasn't us! Honest guv! It was them lot over in Brussels
I can't see that changing any time soon. Can you?
Is that no vote 3 then ?
Just here to laugh at Bercow's decision.
They can do it in a different session apparently.
Don't put it past them ...
... and the rudderless drift towards the cliff edge continues...
It's interesting that no one seemed to no this at the time.
(Or has a minister flagged this.)
They can do it in a different session apparently.
Don’t put it past them
As the current session runs until the Summer. That means September at the earliest.
We now need a GE or new ref to get an A50 extension or it’s no deal.
Has anyone asked Jezza if he thinks it's the time to push for a second referendum yet?
Alistair Campbell didn't think so yet. Last minute when its second ref or no deal was his view. Still - he cannot be wrong being a blairite can he?
For ****s sake - I have Brexit to thank for learning so much about how parliamentary procedure works. 😆
Couldn’t it just have been fox hunting or something else less contentious?!
John Bercow: An Apology.
The Guardian wishes to apologise to Mr Bercow for describing him as a pompous, entitled, **** every month for the past 20 years, and now states for the record that he is one of the greatest statesmen of the age. We regret any confusion this may have caused.
For **** sake – I have Brexit to thank for learning so much about how parliamentary procedure works
Looks the same for Teresa too.
The gammons are going to go mental! I can just see tomorrows Daily Fail headlines 😀
slowoldman
Subscriber
Bercow needs to kick these repeated attempts into the long grass.
He just did sort of.
Oof.
https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/1107677345907908608?s=21
Although it is interesting to see that the headbangers are all up to blow smoke up Bercow’s arse.
The gammons are going to go mental! I can just see tomorrows Daily Fail headlines
You think? They hate the deal just as much as us. To them no deal is the only thing they want and at the moment that is exactly where we are heading.
I voted remain but accepted the leave vote.
The deal offered is worse than what we already have. Why leave with a worse deal?
Just leave with no deal and sort trade out deals. End.
Just leave with no deal and sort trade out deals. End.
Is this a serious comment?
You think? They hate the deal just as much as us.
Theres a gammon Tory MP on Five Live now saying he's voted against Mays bill the last two times but still demands his right to do so again. And then suggesting dissolving parliament
You really couldn't make it up
To them no deal is the only thing they want and at the moment that is exactly where we are heading.
Or May has to go and beg for an extension to Article 50?
I have Brexit to thank for learning so much about how parliamentary procedure works.
Is it like homeopathy?
http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
Or May has to go and beg for an extension to Article 50?
And if she doesn't or the EU says no? Don't get me wrong I think something will change before the 29th but the current law says we leave on the 29th, which is one week on Friday!
I voted remain but accepted the leave vote.
The deal offered is worse than what we already have. Why leave with a worse deal?
I agree with the first part, but why is May's deal worse than no deal ? Is it the back stop, it would only be worse if the EU cynically tried to trap us in the backstop to prevent us leaving !!! But that makes no sense at all 🤔. Totally understand Bercows rulling but it could go horribly wrong for those hoping to remain, or those looking for a deal to make the best of a bad job.
why is May’s deal worse than no deal ?
Why is May’s deal better than no deal (other than the soundbite of her saying it is)?
Genuine question. From this side of the fence it looks to us like economic ruin, we'd love to be reassured to the contrary.
Because, y'know, even if you take it out of the current political situation, when in the history of ever has no deal been better than a poor one? The sentence itself is self-evidently abject nonsense.
Is a bad deal in a divorce settlement worse than leaving with nothing? Is getting an orange for your birthday worse than getting no presents at all? Because that's what's on the table here, make no mistake. We can leave with a bad deal (which is actually a pretty good deal in reality, arguably better than anyone expected we'd get) where we still get to keep a bunch of benefits, or we can leave with absolutely nothing. How in the name of your deity of choice is "nothing" better than "something" or "anything"?
Is getting an orange for your birthday worse than getting no presents at all?
If you have a severe orange allergy it is.
Context is everything.
First time in a long time that anything Brexit-related has made I laugh. 😉
Has anyone asked Jezza if he thinks it’s the time to push for a second referendum yet?
There is no point asking him, he doesn't know the answer.
Incompetent Opposition unable to hold incompetent government to account.
I seriously think it is time for The Queen to step in. I am serious
Just leave with no deal and sort trade out deals. End.
We would be utterly ****ed if we tried that.
Trade deals take years, and you have to give something up to get something back. You need to give the relevant country what they want. Without any trade deals we will desperately need them so we'd be in a very weak position and have to concede a lot.
Alistair Campbell - you know Blairs fixer who everyone who hates corbyn seems to think is the messiah is on record as stating its not time for the second ref push yet. Or at least he didn't last week.
Long delay now and probably a People’s vote.
How in the name of your deity of choice is “nothing” better than “something” or “anything”?
Because every deal contains benefits for compromises - otherwise it's a gift. If the compromises outweigh the benefits then it's worse than nothing.
<deleted for being too slow>
Member
I voted remain but accepted the leave vote.The deal offered is worse than what we already have. Why leave with a worse deal?
Just leave with no deal and sort trade out deals. End.
FFS, really?
how long do you think it will take to sort out trade deals?
its taken 3 years for our MPs to not agree a 500 page withdrawl agreement
wtf do you think theyd suddenly have a plan to sort out our future relationship- average trade deal is 1000s of pages long and takes 7 years
even the few trade roll overs Fox has cobbled together are void in the case of no deal
we'd be tearing everything up & having to start again on everything, Ill ask again what or who in the government have you seen that makes you think they have the wit or dompetence to do this?
it aboslutely most definitely would not be '.END'
it would be the begininng of an even longer & more painful road than the one we presently have ahead of this
how can people not see this?
I voted remain but accepted the leave vote.
The deal offered is worse than what we already have. Why leave with a worse deal?
A lot of us are saying don't then leave.
Just leave with no deal and sort trade out deals. End.
2 + 2 = 5
Our current 'deal' is being members of the EU. May's deal is worse as it's 2 years of paying for membership but with no voting rights and 95% of the leaving terms still to agreed (kick. long. grass. can.) Leaving with no deal is different again (WTO and zombies).
Because they honestly believe that 'no deal brexit' comes with unicorns and pixies.
Any time anyone uses the word "just" or "simply" you can bet the following sentence will be a reasoning free zone.
I don't think Bercow's Intervention (like Shatner's Bassoon, but tuned down a semi-tone) Is all that...
MV2 was substantially different "enough" to MV1 to go ahead, May's issue is still that not enough MPs will vote for it, bot Bercow's refusal to give it time.
I seriously think it is time for The Queen to step in. I am serious
i said that a few pages ago - it'd be very entertaining to watch the royalty-loving papers try to cope with it given that they're also the rabid Brexit-supporting papers.
They couldn't very well go calling the Queen a traitor and an enemy of the people!
Has anyone asked Jezza if he thinks it’s the time to push for a second referendum yet?
There was a hint yesterday that JC will call for a new ref for us all to choose whether we want the May Deal or his deal.
So, do you want peas or beans with your shit sandwich?
Is this a hypothetical shit sandwich with beans or is it actually on the EUs menu?
You know what will happen if JC gets his way, the idiot will win the referendum and then lose the required general election for it to be acted upon.
magnificent clip on the BBC website.....not because of the decision, but he now seems to just say 'Order' as some sort of tick (watch to the end, he can't help himself)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074
So what does May ask for when she goes to the EU summit? Last week it was either going to be a delay to the end of June if she had her deal or a much longer extension if not.
May is in a position where she can do very little. the EU have made it clear an extension is possible but only if there is a serious change in the UKs position. So out with Mays red lines and a new withdrawaL agreement, a general election or a second referendum or something similar.
The EU leaders are all asking " what do you want Mrs May?" and she has nothing to tell them as she has nothing to aimfor.
Indicative votes looking rather more likely I reckon, thusly feeding into TJ's view above.....probably.
After days trawling the twitterati, I didn't think MV3 would pass tbh, so meaningful votes were potentially coming anyway.
Bercow has taken one for the team I think...
I think that Bercow has actually done May a favour. The sense was she would have lost MV3 - now she can blame Bercow for not bringing to the house. Bugger of to EU, do just enough to get MV3v2 next week - and with it being so up against the wire that lots of MPs panic vote it through.
I'm enjoying the Gammongeddon though
I'm not so sure Bercow has done may a favor, more bungs to the DUP and some of the ERG softening could have seen a 3rd vote slip through, but i guess we'll never know.
Now the DUP aren't useful to May anymore, and they must realise this now.. what a are they saying I wonder...
After days trawling the twitterati, I didn’t think MV3 would pass tbh, so meaningful votes were potentially coming anyway.
Should have written indicative not meaningful!
Without the DUP the Govt is a minority of course
Woohooo ... just as the media is getting really boring Bercow has give the them something new to chew on. 😀
An old rule resurrected to defy the people and I wonder what happened then ...
In my life time I really want to see how far the Parliament will go to defy the people ... then see demoncracy in free downward spiral. 😀
Yeah, you're right. They should keep having the same vote until they get the result they want.
Erm. Oh.
Yeah, you’re right. They should keep having the same vote until they get the result they want.
Erm. Oh.
I think they should keep defying the people with all their tricks just to see how much they have up their sleeves. 😀
I think they should keep defying the people if it's in the country's best interests. That's how a representative democracy works. Are you new here?
Cougar wins this page of the internet for today.
I think they should keep defying the people if it’s in the country’s best interests. That’s how a representative democracy works. Are you new here?
I am not objecting as long as both sides try their best to outdo each others by hook or by crook all in the name of demoncracy or Parliamentary demoncracy whatever. They should play dirty or as dirty as they can.
I am just observing that's all ... 😀
2016: We must leave the EU in order to restore parliamentary sovereignty
2019: We must abolish parliamentary sovereignty in order to leave the EU
An old rule resurrected to defy the people
An old rule resurrected, or simply one that has been obayed ever since so no need to use it? ROFL 😀
An old rule resurrected, or simply one that has been obayed ever since so no need to use it? ROFL 😀
I want to see Parliament topples a govt for once in my life time 😀
They should keep having the same vote until they get the result they want
You're right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008
et al....
Not sure about parliament toppling, the executive on the other hand..
For those of you banging on about MP’s defying the will of the people & perveting democracy.....have a chew on this:
“The first duty of a member of parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate. Burke's famous declaration on this subject is well known. It is only in the third place that his duty to party organisation or programme takes rank. All these three loyalties should be observed, but there in no doubt of the order in which they stand under any healthy manifestation of democracy.”
Sir Winston Churchill, 26th March 1955
https://academic.oup.com/pa/article-abstract/VIII/3/302/1532097?redirectedFrom=PDF
Not sure about parliament toppling, the executive on the other hand..
Whoever topples who is not important but the important matter is the circus must go on.
Let's see now long this will last and enjoy it while you still can coz it is once in a lifetime. 😀
Enjoying this debacle is like enjoying watching a cage fight between a bear and a tiger where you get to fight the winner.
A once in a lifetime embarrassing debacle for me. It's a bit more serious for those who have already lost thier livleyhoods or are about too, especially as the benefit system won't be there, small safety blanket though it was.
We're about to witness the great, very slow capitulation.
You either haven't read those entries, or don't understand them nick1962
I'm not sure this changes much
(Apart from raising gammon blood pressure to dangerous levels)
May had already said she wouldn't bring the vote unless she thought it would pass.
The DUP & ERG haven't backed down on the backstop, May's latest tactic was to try & get Stormont involved in getting out of the backstop..... Which is still a unilateral effort to leave the treaty, so simply won't fly, just as fanciful as malthouse etc.
So she'd never have even got to a vote, unless the EU were to change their rules at the council of ministers on Thursday, in which case it's be a material change anyways.
So we've got the same choices we always had. But May & the brexiteers red lines preventing any progress.....
An old rule resurrected, or simply one that has been obayed ever since so no need to use it
It's the latter, I read about this a few days ago. It hasn't been invoked (IIRC since the 1940s?) because no-one's ever been daft enough to act in a manner which requires it to be invoked.
ION, this is a long but interesting read. Remember the Guardian 'bad boys of brexit' article from about a thousand pages back?
Where's JHJ when you need him?
Man who doesn't believe in freedom of movement for other people buys team which freely moves around Europe.
I have run out of rude words to say.
It’s the latter, I read about this a few days ago. It hasn’t been invoked (IIRC since the 1940s?) because no-one’s ever been daft enough to act in a manner which requires it to be invoked.
That's my understanding, the whole 'resurrecting' a rule, is just political spin.
*coughs*
As a sometime participator myself, I urge you to consider the killfile before you get pulled into a vortex from which it's impossible to escape.
Anyway, Bercow pulled a blinder didn't he?
Anyway, Bercow pulled a blinder didn’t he?
He really did. You would never believe this plot if someone was writing a novel. I like it as it's forcing people's hands rather than letting the May deal get through because people are just fed up. It's not clear what the final outcome will be (other than a long delay) but it's difficult to believe it's worse than riding into a wall at full speed and seeing what's left when the dust settles
I just want to see moggs face when the EU tax avoidance reforms come into law.
OK he's so rich it won't even matter to him in any material sense, but it's obviously a prickly subject for him. He's got investors to look after, donchano 🙂