[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I have an 18 journey today. Expect some poignant thoughts, facetious silliness and many spelling mistakes / autocorrects.

I am sure it will be a step up from zokes! Enjoyed the clicky 😉

I think you enjoyed it last year too.

spekkie - Member

I read somewhere last summer that the existing customs at places like Calais and Folkstone already acknowledge that they can't possibly check every vehicle that comes through and that therefore they know tons of stuff/people are being smuggled past them every week. . . .

UK border controls were relaxed considerably in the nineties, for fiscal matters the method of control shifted towards using the importers systems and much less physical control, so as you say the border force can't check everything although the use of newer technology helped in preventive rummage work. However the problem will be when there's no single market and the nature of the perfectly legal commodities is of concern due to tariffs, rebates etc. Constant under investment means there won't be the staff, facilities or technology to deal with this.
The controls at the airports are already creaking at peak times remember maybots massive queues at the airports to process travellers from non Eu countries, well removing freedom of movement for eu nationals isn't going to help that, queue loads of staff being removed from front line anti smuggling duties and the relaxation of checks to clear the log jams.

NI border is going to be even more of a mess , back to the old days of cows being shifted across borders to screw subsidies. Who wants to be a border guard in the north? A new unarmed "legitimate target " which will be easy picking for any dissidents?

I'm sure this has been covered, but Hammond is now under fire for not thinking enough positive thoughts, or making enough positive sounding statements.

Also seems he's "coopted the CBI, parts of the City and, it seems, the Treasury”. Well. At least he's been busy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/08/conservative-brexiters-turn-fire-philip-hammonds-treasury-sack-chancellor

Trying to remove the grownups from the room.

I clicked on the link to Bernhard Jenkins article. It started with the line

[i]There is no intrinsic reason why Brexit should be difficult or damaging[/i]

I don't think I'll bother reading any more of it, as he clearly has less of an understanding of reality than a 2 year old

[img] [/img]
I think we can safely file that with the others then, no room for you reality sorts in here. Positive Mental Attitude and all that

I am sure it will be a step up from zokes!

Don't like home truths do you, Tmh?

So - they continue to flounder. apparently ( from Maybot) the ball is in their court now. What utter piffle. She is trying to frame the debate in such a way that the EU are seen as the intransigent ones. Well most of us can see thru this. No progress on the NI border, a laughably inadequate offer on our continuing commitments and a disgustingly poor offer on EU citizens rights.

And still the tories can't even get a united front on the negotiating positions

She is trying to frame the debate in such a way that the EU are seen as the intransigent ones.

I'll agree with tmh that the EU may be being intransigent, but at least they're not incompetent

I don't see the EU as intransigent at all. Merely looking after their interests. They have been consistent and reasonable right from the start.

In what way do you see the EU as intransigent?

Mainly in that they're driving a hard bargain by looking after their interests. Quite understandable, and predictable, but it's also intransigence.

Nope - its not. Its just negotiating. Why should they make things worse for themselves to ease our way? No way are they going to lose out so the UK can gain.

Its not the EU that have gone missing at the negotiations, its not the EU that are unprepared, its not the EU being inconsistent, its not the EU that don't have a unified agreed position

You're doing a remarkable job of arguing with someone who is in agreement with you 🙄

[i]Definition of intransigent

1) characterised by refusal to compromise or to abandon an often extreme position or attitude

[u]2) uncompromising: intransigent in their opposition[/u][/i]

They are being intransigent, only in that they are expecting the UK to follow the schedule we signed up to, Davis just wasting months whining about trade deal 1st

The Tories quite clearly still think the EU mob are playing poker and at some point will say "Go on then, we'll give you whatever you want". They really don't understand that they hold no cards do they?

It would be hilarious if it wasn't going to be so damaging.

Intransigence? If you want to see Intransigence then the Tory conference was the place to be last week. I caught footage of some fringe meeting or other. I think its was Bill Cash or one of the other foaming-at-the-mouth fruitloop Tory MPs. It was the ramblings of a madman. His proposal was that we basically tell the EU fo eff off, send all the immigrants back, crash out of the single market and customs union and carry on on WTO terms.

In normal circumstances, you'd just laugh at this lunacy and suggest their doctor ups their medication, but May is so weak that she has to pacify these headcases

It is not going to end well

The EU position is not extreme tho. Its moderate, proportionate and reasonable. thus its not intransigence to stick to it. I actually think they have been far more helpful than they might have been and much more flexible

😀

Reasonable Europeans
Intransigent Brits

We really have swallowed their narrative hook, line and sinker

😀

Are you struggling to read, TJ?

I even underlined the relevant bit. In any case, the first definition says "often", which is not a synonym for "always".

Words in having more than one meaning shocker....

So who's the EU's equivalent of Bill Cash then Hurty?

Binners the headcases feed the news, behind the scenes the grown ups are moving forward albeit slowly and as usually business is being proactive

Papers don’t sell if they stick to the dull underlying truth

We really have swallowed their narrative hook, line and sinker

Nope, just being pragmatic realists.

Not that it matters anyway, with your clowns in charge we'd be lucky to negotiate a discount at a second hand car dealer.

zokes - I don't think the EUs position fits those criteria at all. Its just opinion tho

WTF has a has-been like Cash got to do with things? He’s just background noise

Who are my clowns?

Its just opinion tho

Edinburgh defence v2.0? 😉

Who are my clowns?

Unless you've changed your spots even more remarkably than you did about Brexit, I believe you're usually found in support of the Tories, no?

I'll leave you to work out the rest...

Awa' and shite 😉

Davies hasn't even bothered to turn up today

Asked about the absence of the Brexit secretary, David Davis, from the first day of the fifth round of negotiations starting on Monday, the spokesman added: “The European commission article 50 team is available 24/7. The timing of talks depends on the availability of our UK partners. We are always here and we are ready.”

Eu negotiate - well done, perfectly understandable
UK negotiate - boo hiss, indefensible

With enemies like this, who needs friends?

Papers don’t sell if they stick to the dull underlying truth

FFS we essentially know what is happening with Eu nationals

Sturgeon - remember her? - was even offering to pay the £65 for those working in the public sector as a sign of tartan hoodwill

UK government currently playing a toddler screaming “it’s not fair” very well indeed. It’s ok though, plenty of Mitty quitlings telling us that things are going smoothly behind the scenes. 😆

“The ball’s in your court.”
(Please sort out our internal party crisis for us.)

Have the ground workers started widening the roads at Irish border crossings yet?

FFS we essentially know what is happening with Eu nationals

What is?

Then what's happening with the border?

And what are we doing about the bill?

No answers on those, no trade deal. Remarkably simple concept to grasp, one would have thought.

teamhurtmore - Member

FFS we essentially know what is happening with Eu nationals

really? I know I shouldn't engage with you but this is utter nonsense. ther have been proposals from the tories immediately contradicted by other tories and no suggestions are in any way close to what would be satisfactory to the EU and the tories proposals if reciprocated would =mean huge issues for all those brits living in the EU

So go on - I'll open another post of yours. What is the position on EU nationals living in the UK. Will they have to have id cards or not? Will they have to apply for right to remain or not? Will they be eligible for NHS care or not? Will they be eligible for benefits or not?

All thoses issues have recent contradictions from the tories

plenty of Mitty quitlings

You imaginative choice of phrase is getting more developed and enjoyable to read. More subtle than the studs on the shin too! Bravo! 😉

essentially? or actually have an agreed position.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-in-the-eu/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-the-european-union-safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-living-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-living-in-the-eu
That would not be enough for me to commit to my future somewhere.

Zokes, TJ - May’s announcement is there for anyone to read

It even made the headlines and cause quite a stir.

THM - yes and is a part of the contradictory briefings. Will EU nationals Need ID cards? One tory says yes, another no. Also it is simply nothing like good enough an offer - if reciprocated it would mean huge issues for the million UK nationals in the EU

I knew it would be pointless. Bloocker back on

Even in May's warm words, it is clear that EU non UK Citizens will neither keep their existing rights, nor be treated the same as UK Citizens. Digging into the position papers doesn't make it at all clear where that erosion of rights ends, or how different life in the UK will be for rEU nationals compared to UK nationals.

That will depend on the negotiations won’t it. Good for her for protecting UK interests

Shucks TJ miss you already. 😉

Is this the position?
He ( labour MEP) says in particular that the mandatory nature of the British requirement for 3.2 million EU nationals in Britain to apply for biometric ID residence documents declaring their “settled status” is likely to face tough opposition from the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Or is it this?
It read: “The Home Office has confirmed ... its position that EU citizens will not have to have comprehensive sickness insurance [private health insurance], will not have to meet an income threshold, will not have to submit fingerprints; will not be issued with an ID card.”

so which is it?

settled position?

Those joining after Brexit will be subject to the new immigration rules. The Home Office document says a range of options is being considered on how EU migration will work “for new arrivals post-Brexit” and proposals will be published as soon as possible.

teamhurtmore - Member
That will depend on the negotiations won’t it. Good for her for protecting UK interests

Why have one position on an issue when you can have several, depending on who you speak to, and what day of the week it is?