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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Taxi - you are correct initially. EU law is already enshrined in uk law - we are mandated to do so.

The issue is that the whole Brexit concept is to free us from all this EU nanny state red tape apparently. The people pushing the agenda want deregulation and pure market capitalism. That basically means less rules and regulation for business, less workers rights and less quality control on imports.

We have taken a lot of these basic rights for granted - most only came into existence from the EU.

Food labellling, including contents/nutrition
Animal welfare rules
Workers rights
Minimum wage
Maximum working hours

Amazing protections we get as citizens thanks to the EU, but all just barriers to profit to the free market capitalists.

The Brexit sold to the population as “taking back control” is just a smokescreen to the real power and agenda.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 1:44 pm
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There is no good news from this.
If Enola can go and get a " deal" from the septics regardless how shit it is the papers can hail Brexit a success.
We will take whatever deal we are offered.
Edit .unless we get David the rottweiler Davis to do the negotiations.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 1:45 pm
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View from the US neoliberals (and, er, Daniel Hannan, of course) on 'The ideal US-UK free trade deal' on rules of origin:

It should ensure that the rules that determine whether products and services are originating (meaning that they come from one or more of the agreement’s parties) are not so restrictive that they limit the scope for supply chain innovations.

https://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/ideal-us-uk-free-trade-agreement-free-traders-perspective

Because of course, we wouldn't want to limit the scope of innovations such as chlorinated chicken.

@taxi25 - yes the UK law may prohibit this for the time being. But it is abundantly clear that the US are going to hammer this and other similar points, under threat of demolishing us with tariffs, until we give in.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 1:51 pm
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Thanks Cultsdave.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 1:56 pm
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A good article by Johnathon Freedland in the Guardian last week

We now know the great prize of Brexit: becoming Trump’s prey

Its not just chlorinated chicken. One thing they'd absolutely insist on is that the NHS and other public services are opened up to private US providers.

Any trade deal will involve the US issuing its demands on a 'take it or leave it basis. There won't be any negotiation. We are about to get royally shafted!


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 1:57 pm
 csb
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Once we've isolated ourselves by leaving the EU we'll be desperate for a trade deal with the US. They're being quite open about the lower standards they want UK consumers to endure as the cost of allowing access to their markets. You only need to track which EU standards they oppose (on welfare, composition, intellectual property) to understand which we'll be expected to sacrifice.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:05 pm
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 The people pushing the agenda want deregulation and pure market capitalism. That basically means less rules and regulation for business, less workers rights and less quality control on imports.

True there are some pushing that agenda, but their not in the ascendancy IMHO.Even May is a remainer at heart and so is the majority of parliament, my optimist hat stays on for the time being.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:22 pm
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Fox was on Marr today, he looked terrible, Marr gave him an easy time considering how badly the trade talks have gone.

It's obvious, especially to the likes of America & Japan that we'll be so desperate to strike deals that they will skewer us, they've not been shy about admitting it either. This is why Fox is looking so hollowed out in interviews.

Outside of the EU I'm resigned to rights & protections, being stripped away by successive parliaments in an effort to claw back the trade we are losing.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:35 pm
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Sandwich

Kimbers, double isn’t even close. Have a look here for the first 6 Months of 2018.

Roughly 1500 deaths per year (source)

The U.K. has approximately 500 deaths each year from food poisoning Source - warning Daily Mail link, but looking at the source linked by Sandwich, the US actually has around 5000 deaths each year, the 1500 is only those from known pathogens.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:44 pm
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I lived in South Africa while the case for Brexit was being argued over and it got virtually no coverage at all over there. They had enough of their own problems at the time.

The stuff that's been coming out since the vote is just staggering to hear. It's like watching some sort of a soap opera with the most unbelievable story line ever, and every week it gets worse.

It's looking like it's going to be the one of the biggest "scams" ever pulled off in the history of the world. I hope not, I hope it all works out . . . but its looking doubtful.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:47 pm
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True there are some pushing that agenda, but their not in the ascendancy IMHO.

The US will force us to accept their lower standard goods, so that we can sell them our stuff, even if a government doesn't want lower standards.

May might be a remainer, but she's also a Tory and she needs trade deals as we all do, now we've just torn up all the ones we had.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 2:49 pm
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Ahhh the distinctive call of the lesser spotted ‘reluctant brexiteer’....

First there was THM with the assurances of there being adults in the room who would mitigate the worst of the **** ups and deliver a Brexit so soft even the Andrex puppy would be hard pushed to notice. Proven to be incorrect.

Then along comes dazh with the aggro ‘it is ok to lash out at people in fury and sink yourself in the process angle’, but it must be allowed to happen or there’ll be burning cars in the streets.

Then taxi25 is having a go, a variation on the THM approach, less patronising, but also less detailed. Lots of unfounded hope.

But none of them actually want Brexit, oh no!

If Brexit has to be mitigated to such a point that it is ultimately meaningless (BRINO) then, why, for the love of god why bother at all?


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 3:44 pm
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Yep, and as has been previously said, once we lower food standards we won't be able to export food to the EU, the loss of a huge market for us.
The US will flood our market with substandard food and put our domestic farmers out of business.

The Americans aren't stupid, they'll have us by the balls and they know it.
And that's just food, also as previously mentioned it will be the death bell for the NHS too.
The Americans have already pretty much laid out the terms, and it's nothing but bad news for British citizens.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 3:47 pm
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 we won’t be able to export food to the EU, the loss of a huge market for us.
The US will flood our market with substandard food and put our domestic farmers out of business.

Obviously this is the most likely scenario.

 also as previously mentioned it will be the death bell for the NHS too.

This as well. We might as well all give up then 🙄


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 4:06 pm
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This as well. We might as well all give up then

Well we *will* be giving it all up, that's the point I and several others are making!

Far from 'taking back control'.

We'll be 'free' to drive ourselves further towards 3rd world country status.

We'll just be another 'shithole' Country for the Americans to exploit.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 4:15 pm
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But if British law requires them to they’ll have to do. At least if they want to export to the UK. Why do you think that can’t happen ? Parliment is and will be mostly remain regardless of whether or how we leave. If there’s a need for food labelling thats what we’ll get.

Well I get US bars via amazon uk and they have labelling of GM cos the eu say so, I don’t agree with GM so I don’t buy them any more, if we get a ‘deal’ with the US by Mr disgraced Fox the labelling regulation will be easily changed without having to have the annoying problem of getting this thru 27 partner states who are currently happy with the labelling.

Suddenly you can’t make an easy decision on whether you want to eat GM choc bars or not as it’s not on the labelling any more.

It’s not sky falling it’s just I like to know what I’m sticking in my gob.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 6:25 pm
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The US will demand this as a price for getting a trade deal.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 6:27 pm
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Ripping up all our trade deals overnight sort of puts us inbetween a rock and a hard place.

Old mog won’t even acknowledge that his favourite Brexit economist Patrick Milford says

just like coal and steel", manufacturing and farming would no longer make sense and would cease to operate."

And after seeing 3.5K jobs(probably 12k) just get blasted away in Swindon without a blink, I really don’t get the madness that is happening.


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 6:56 pm
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70 mps will vote against a second referendum! 30 will vote for Mays deal even idf not tied to a second referendum. corbyn / labour really are in as much of a mess as May and the tories

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/jeremy-corbyn-warned-he-faces-rebellion-of-up-70-mps-over-second-brexit-vote/?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=ijp&fbclid=IwAR2Qkt0lrpEDKlVZMXNHzSj4sG7fIcTOrMOEDQQsPKdSNwGx-_iRBqi6LMQ


 
Posted : 03/03/2019 11:04 pm
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Not the same thing. this is labour MPs that think either they should get on with leaving because of the manifesto commitment to " honour the referendum" or because they are scared of racists in their constituencies. Labour activists are pro remain by a huge majority, labour voters are across the country but these craven MPs fear leave voters in their constituencies


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 7:28 am
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The U.K. has approximately 500 deaths each year from food poisoning Source – warning Daily Mail link, but looking at the source linked by Sandwich, the US actually has around 5000 deaths each year, the 1500 is only those from known pathogens.

At risk of being accused of something, is that per capita or just total number of deaths? Because it actually makes a big difference.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 8:14 am
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At risk of being accused of something, is that per capita or just total number of deaths? Because it actually makes a big difference

The figure is total deaths for both countries, the US death rate is just under double the U.K. rate. I looked it up for the same reason, as 1500 deaths actually implied a much lower death rate in the USA.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 8:30 am
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Having to give up British butter in favor of US-style "butter" will be quite a sacrifice.

- mystery white butter; apparently if you feed cows on corn in giant warehouses rather than grass in fields, the butter comes out white and mostly tasteless

- "butter!" mixed with canola oil. Not called a spread, but blatantly labelled as butter.

And don't even get me started on yogurt.

I like the US, and the US people, but when it comes to food, it seems to be quite hit-and-miss.

Oh, and food poisoning from chlorine-washed chicken? Yeah, that's definitely a thing.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 9:23 am
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One thing they’d absolutely insist on is that the NHS and other public services are opened up to private US providers.

Erm, that ship sailed a few years back, the US healthcare corps have been registered (or are buying companies in the UK that already are) for years now. They are though massively risk averse and things like GDPR scares the Willie's out of them. Watch for that sort of regulation to disappear, that's the signal.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 9:26 am
 dazh
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Then along comes dazh with the aggro ‘it is ok to lash out at people in fury and sink yourself in the process angle’, but it must be allowed to happen or there’ll be burning cars in the streets.

WTF are you on about? I had hoped to stay out of this ridiculous thread after being labelled a nazi sympathiser for the suggestion that we should listen to why working class northern communities voted for brexit but alas it seems I have to come back to refute the same bollox as before. I get it dannyh, you don't like brexit, you think it should be unilaterally reversed on the grounds that the oiks simply can't grasp what might be in their own* best interests. The trouble with that is that this country only works because every now and again the oiks are given an opportunity to have their say. They'll put up with 40 years of crap wages, shit jobs, shit services and bugger all prospect of breaking out of that as long as they get their say every few years, or in this case in major policy decisions which will affect them. And when they get their say they expect it to be honoured. It's the fundamental principle on which this entire country is built, do you really want to mess with that?

*or rather yours


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 10:46 am
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Not sure how that argument counters a second referendum now the deal (such as it is) is known. Everyone gets the opportunity to say "Yes, this is how I wanted it to turn out, let's do it!" but also with the choice to say "Hold on, this isn't what was promised! You elites are just trying to scam me and make my life even worse, screw that!"


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 10:58 am
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They’ll put up with 40 years of crap wages, shit jobs, shit services and bugger all prospect of breaking out of that as long as they get their say every few years, or in this case in major policy decisions which will affect them. And when they get their say they expect it to be honoured. It’s the fundamental principle on which this entire country is built, do you really want to mess with that?

The flaw in this is that it's blindingly obvious that Brexit won't fix any of those grievances, infact make them worse!


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:04 am
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A good article by Johnathon Freedland in the Guardian last week
We now know the great prize of Brexit: becoming Trump’s prey

Surely this isn't news. It was always blindingly obvious that if we left the EU we would come under the increased "influence" of the US. I've been blethering on for 3 years to anyone who'll listen that our "natural allies" are Europe and Scandinavia, not America. We need a strong and stable (oh God did I just say that?) Europe to stand up economically and politically to the US, Russia, China and increasingly India. This talk of "vassal state" the Brexiters bang on about if we remain in Europe is what's going to happen to us if we leave.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:42 am
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Surely this isn’t news.

You wouldn't think so, would you? But alas for the simplistic worldview of the terminally hard-of-thinking the Good 'ol US of A is as heroic and benevolent and just brilliant as the EU is evil and corrupt.

Rude awakening time on both counts is looming into view


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:53 am
 dazh
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The flaw in this is that it’s blindingly obvious that Brexit won’t fix any of those grievances, infact make them worse!

I agree, but try telling them that! It doesn't actually matter if they are wrong and we (yes, 'we', I am a hardened remainer despite what some people on here like to think) are right. As we all know though many of them didn't vote on economic grounds, but on emotional and entirely imaginary subjects such as race, culture, history and pride. The economic lies about brexit dividends and NHS money were simply convenient smoke screens to legitimise their baser instincts. In their heads the only thing that matters is that 'they' won the referendum and it's should be carried out. They'll put that above everything else, even if it makes them poorer, because to do otherwise is to admit defeat, and to admit that they were wrong. They're never going to do either of those things.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:57 am
 dazh
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Surely this isn’t news.

Indeed. Some were warning about this 30 odd years ago... (sorry couldn't resist such an obvious opportunity to post an NMA track).


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:01 pm
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You wouldn’t think so, would you? But alas for the simplistic worldview of the terminally hard-of-thinking the Good ‘ol US of A is as heroic and benevolent and just brilliant as the EU is evil and corrupt.

Well I mean come on Mark Francois's Dad never had to fight any Americans on the beaches of Normandy 75 years ago so they are obviously the good guys!


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:04 pm
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we should listen to why working class northern communities voted for brexit

Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Stockport and Wirral voted remain.

The New Forest, Solihull, Hillingdon, Surrey Heath, Sevenoaks, Epping Forest, Crawley and Sutton voted leave.

There are massive problems with distribution of wealth and government spending that I do think contributed to the vote to leave but please don't pretend that it was all working class northerners who were taking a chance to lash out at a system that's failed them. There were millions of well-off (southern/northern) suburbanites who voted for it too. And then there's the question of why a working class person in Dumfries was much more likely to vote remain than a working class person 30 miles away in Carlisle.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:09 pm
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There were millions of well-off (southern/northern) suburbanites who voted for it too.

Having lived the the New Forest for 20 years the reasons are more racist than anything else. The weren't voting in protest, because their lives were bad, because they believed the Leave campaign - they just don't like foreigners. That is what every 'debate' I have had comes down to.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:16 pm
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Indeed. I think that most of us have had our perceptions a bit skewed over the last 20-30 years into thinking we live in an open-minded, tolerant and multicultural society

Well guess what? We don't!

Metropolitan pockets of it exist, but we now know that these are the exception, not the rule. Mainly it would appear this country is petty, spiteful, nasty, mean-spirited, small-minded, backward-gazing and, yes... racist!

I think that realisation has been the saddest thing to come out of this whole debacle, as it now seems to have been not only legitimised, but celebrated.

Depressing


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:27 pm
 dazh
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Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Stockport and Wirral voted remain.

Funny because I know all those places extremely well, and they thing they have in common, with the possible exception of Stockport, is they have all undergone a massive transformation in the past 20 years which has gentrified the city centres, brought in lots of non-locals, and pushed the native working class population to the fringes.

Newcastle in particular would be just like Sunderland if it wasn't for the influx of professional, non-native population spawned by the economic regeneration of the city. That's a good thing of course, but don't pretend that's not the reason it's a remain voting area. I could take you to communities only a few miles outside all of these city centres where there are >90% leave voters. And somewhat coincidentally, they tend to be the run-down shitholes you see from train windows, usually with a burnt out flat-roofed pub and gangs of teenagers hanging around on street corners.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:30 pm
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Well I mean come on Mark Francois’s Dad never had to fight any Americans on the beaches of Normandy 75 years ago so they are obviously the good guys!

Absolutely. That the tabloids will stoke the memories of the Germans in WW2 at any opportunity is one of the reasons that things are so bad now. Our unfortunate history with France (people still bring up 1066 FFS...) is another. Trying to convince people of anything when you have a thousand years of battles to forget is, ahem, fighting an uphill battle.

The Americans though, why would we not want to be closer aligned to our special friends and a former colony?*

* I am not serious about this by the way. I can think of many reasons.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:36 pm
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Catch up Binners! You're talking about 2016… the UK has moved on… we just need to nudge the politicians into waking up to the fact… and start representing UK2019 not UK2016…

https://twitter.com/bobbyduffykings/status/1102484477933248512?s=21


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:36 pm
 dazh
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and start representing UK2019 not UK2016…

From what I can see this is the only possible way they can justify a second referendum. Aside from the fact that there's no majority in parliament for one, it could be argued that evidence shows a significant changing of opinion in the past 3 years which means the brexit decision, along with the deal which implements it, needs to be ratified. It's still a bloody hard sell though, and comes with it's own unique problems. All a bit academic though as it's got as much chance of happening as Corbyn's red unicorn brexit.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 1:22 pm
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Dazh - interesting perspectives up there. One of the few positives for me is having had my eyes opened to many issues I’ve never experienced. I was bought up working class in rural Norfolk, but with parents who wanted me to have opportunities. They got me into a Private school on 100% scholarship (my brother too) and we both went to uni.

Whilst my rural village was poor, it wasn’t anything like the inner city areas, as there was plenty of work in agriculture and local factories - where my dad worked.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 1:27 pm
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Funny because I know all those places extremely well, and they thing they have in common, with the possible exception of Stockport, is they have all undergone a massive transformation in the past 20 years which has gentrified the city centres

Oh yeah, of course, I was more getting at the folks in Surrey or Hampshire that also voted leave because of what they read in the Daily Mail or heard from Geoffrey at the golf club. It wasn't all disaffected ex-miners with nowhere else to turn. and some of the working class northerners who did vote leave did it just because they want to "send all the muslims home" rather than because of any economic strife.

Like I said, there are big problems in terms of government attention, and therefore money. While I'd like brexit to not happen I worry that it would be a case of "phew, that was close" and then everything would carry on as before. But Brexit doesn't mean a redistribution of wealth of government investment, as you acknowledged above, if Brexit was a big "f*** you" to 'the establishment' then the people making the statement won't be helped by it. What I'd really like is a cancelled Brexit and a massive shift in government priorities. Build a Crossrail and a tube system in the West Midlands, pour government research funds into Newcastle the same as it goes into Oxford/Cambridge, move the houses of Parliament to Liverpool, the UK government to double any EU regional development funding that's been lost, etc etc. But none of that (cancelled brexit or change in government priorities) will happen.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 2:50 pm
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No, not a bribe

Quick, let's bribe them into voting for the same brexit deal as everyone else. Don't whatever you do tell them there won't be £1.60 let alone £1.6million or £1.6billion after this thing is done.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 4:25 pm
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laughable when the EUs regional development fund spent £13bn on the UKs poorest regions over the last 7 years


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 4:57 pm
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laughable when the EUs regional development fund spent £13bn on the UKs poorest regions over the last 7 years

Yep, but a lot of people thought the NHS was getting an extra £350m per week - and probably still do.

But....blue passports.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:04 pm
 rone
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laughable when the EUs regional development fund spent £13bn on the UKs poorest regions over the last 7 years

It would be laughable if people realised irrespective of Brexit / EU that these places have been massively under-invested in decades.

Governments should be investing irrespective.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:09 pm
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AS every brexit impact assessment warns that these regions will be hit hardest by Brexit, we will sadly be seeing the opposite of that I suspect


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:18 pm
 colp
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Funny because I know all those places extremely well, and they thing they have in common, with the possible exception of Stockport, is they have all undergone a massive transformation in the past 20 years which has gentrified the city centres, brought in lots of non-locals, and pushed the native working class population to the fringes.

I wouldn’t say that’s true of Wirral, it’s had no regeneration (Birkenhead/Rock Ferry/New Ferry etc).

Liverpool city centre has had a massive regeneration and there’s a huge student population but I wouldn’t say the native working class have been pushed out to the fringes.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:21 pm
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Birkenhead has had some regeneration, bus station apparently (eu funded) but its still on the whole a troubled area

New Brighton has had a lot of money (including from the EU) & the redevelopments there are a big improvement

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/17-things-european-funding-done-10925208


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:25 pm
 ctk
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Clive Lewis was on tv saying the poorest areas have had £16bn worth of cuts in last however many years under Tories.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 5:41 pm
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Clive Lewis was on tv saying the poorest areas have had £16bn worth of cuts in last however many years under Tories.

So if someone robbed me of £100 and then offered me £10 of it back on condition that I helped them out of a problem of their own making, what should my reply be?

Answers on a postcard.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 6:03 pm
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As bribes go, it's a really, really shit one, isn't it?

1.6 billion over 7 years? Chris Grayling could spaff more than that in one accident-prone morning.

To me it just perfectly illustrates the contempt in which we're held. Oh, just bung them some loose change and they'll be happy. Look.... you can have some shiny beads as well

Christ, I *ing hate these Tory *s!!


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 6:10 pm
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£5.5bn was/will be spent between 2016 and 2022 just on Tube modernisation.
in London.

And the entire rest of the country is meant to be glad for a third of that, as a one off, to make up for the brexit shambles. It wouldn't even pay for three tube station refurbs!


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 6:18 pm
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It’s the fundamental principle on which this entire country is built, do you really want to mess with that?

It's not really tho is it. We live in a representative democracy where the population get regular opportunities to elect some one to act on their behalf. That's the fundamental principle of our political system; we aren't a direct democracy.

We are messing with that by putting the responsibility for monumentally complex decisions in the hands of people who are unable to give the appropriate level of thought to it.


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 8:43 pm
 AD
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 dazh
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We are messing with that by putting the responsibility for monumentally complex decisions in the hands of people who are unable to give the appropriate level of thought to it.

I agree, but the ship has sailed. Once the people get a vote they expect it to be carried out. If the voting public can’t understand things like Brexit, how are they going to get their heads around suspending democracy under special circumstances, especially when it’s because the losers don’t like the decision they made?


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 9:20 pm
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@dazh, I get what you are saying. But what happens when you give them the brexit they voted for, and they find that they were wrong, things could be worse - and now they are? What will they do then? Because I'm pretty sure they aren't going to say "we're really sorry we've screwed the country, can we please just put it all back the way it was?"


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:19 pm
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I agree, but the ship has sailed. Once the people get a vote they expect it to be carried out. If the voting public can’t understand things like Brexit, how are they going to get their heads around suspending democracy under special circumstances, especially when it’s because the losers don’t like the decision they made?

theyre going to be even more pissed off when the 3 years of withdrawl agreement negotiations are over we start on the next decade of trade talks & they realise we'll never actually leave Europe, immigrants keep coming & theres less money for schools, councils, NHS etc etc


 
Posted : 04/03/2019 11:51 pm
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theyre going to be even more pissed off when the 3 years of withdrawl agreement negotiations are over we start on the next decade of trade talks & they realise we’ll never actually leave Europe, immigrants keep coming & theres less money for schools, councils, NHS etc etc

Future problems are always massively discounted in people's heads.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:49 am
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Never before has the phrase "We'll cross that bridge when we get to it" been so apt.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:58 am
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It's more of a 'We'll burn that bridge when we come to it..'


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 1:11 am
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Europe 1 announced 8-hour queues at ports this morning as French customs apply post-Brexit style checks, and that without any post-Brexit paperwork to deal with.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 7:41 am
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Europe 1 announced 8-hour queues at ports this morning as French customs apply post-Brexit style checks, and that without any post-Brexit paperwork to deal with.

Really !! Conditions described as fluid. Industrial action caused freight delays earlier, but nothing new there.

 

French customs' Industrial action

Due to a social movement by the French customs, lorries congestion on the A16 both ways. Please follow the diversion in place. We are running a full service and doing everything possible for customers once French controls cleared.Take care 


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 8:39 am
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Industrial action caused freight delays earlier, but nothing new there.

The so-called "industrial action" was the customs officers applying post-Brexit style checks:

https://www.europe1.fr/international/brexit-greve-du-zele-des-douaniers-a-calais-et-dunkerque-plusieurs-km-de-bouchon-3867986

I don't know where you get your news, Taxi, but it's leave propaganda lying by omission..


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 8:48 am
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The so-called “industrial action” was the customs officers applying post-Brexit style checks:

Even my school boy french is enough to make out that the article you link to Edukator, suggests that the customers officers are on strike.

Des douaniers de Calais et Dunkerque étaient lundi en grève

Edit: It goes on to say they're unhappy about the "night hours" they work. They're applying post Brexit style delays as a from of protest


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 9:16 am
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Context is key though, the simple translate this page feature in a moder browser would have told you more than looking for a word.

Customs officials from Calais and Dunkirk were on Monday on strike "unlimited" zeal at the call of an inter-union to do the "demonstration of what will happen with the Brexit ", creating long queues of trucks . Several miles of the A16 leading to the Channel Tunnel, long lines of trucks were almost stopped, in the middle of the afternoon, there were journalists from AFP.

Protest or illustration of the situation, its good to give people a good idea what is going to happen. It could be called an exercise and deliver the same result. I assume the British government has one organised for the UK side to make sure we are ready.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 9:22 am
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It could be called an exercise and deliver the same result.

Sure, I don't disagree with you. But let's at least be honest about the cause.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 9:30 am
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Yes it's the implementation of post bad brexit level checks on trucks. Don't confuse the cause with the intent.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 9:31 am
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I don’t know where you get your news, Taxi, but it’s leave propaganda lying by omission..

So aggressive again Edukator !!
You posted 8 hour delays, my information comes from the eurotunnel passenger information website. The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays will be the norm. And you accuse me of spreading propaganda 😂


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 9:32 am
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@taxi25

For a so-called 'reluctant leaver' you do seem quite strident in your desire to conduct pro-Leave psyops. Almost textbook, in fact.

Curious.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 10:31 am
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The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays

I wasn't implying anything, I was stating what I heard on the news with a link to back it up.

Taxi25 clearly stated he would vote leave at the start of this thread and did not retract any time before the vote, dannyh. He continues to post pro-Brexit nonsense and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 11:26 am
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I assume the British government has one organised for the UK side to make sure we are ready.

I assume you've forgotten who the Transport Secretary is then?


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 11:39 am
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The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays will be the norm.

Until somebody releases their modelling (it's not that complex a study) or does another trail this would be a good guide to the delays. To reduce the delay we would need to speed up the process or remove some of the steps. Which is the one that is going to happen?


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 11:46 am
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you do seem quite strident in your desire to conduct pro-Leave psyops. 

Show me were I've posted anything "pro" leave ? I don't belive there are any. But I also don't belive the project fear obsesion on on here is a healthy place to be. All I try to do is put a slighty more optimistis side to a poor situation.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 11:47 am
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Taxi25 clearly stated he would vote leave at the start of this thread and did not retract any time before the vote, dannyh. He continues to post pro-Brexit nonsense and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information.

Don't worry - I am fully aware - it doesn't take Columbo to figure it out.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 11:51 am
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this would be a good guide to the delays

It might be...The article goes on to list the customs official's issues, the poor pay for what they see as hard and dangerous work at night, and the fact that they think 800 extra officers may not be enough to "move a border" There is though (regardless of whether you're a leaver or remainer) a difference between a strike/work to rule, and a normal day.

I just think there's enough fake news/propaganda floating about (you just need to read the Sun's version of this story) I don't think you can take one day's strike and conclude this is what it will look like, post Brexit.

To reduce the delay we would need to speed up the process or remove some of the steps. Which is the one that is going to happen?

The French customs union think it will need more than the currently proposed 800 extra officers, that's clear enough.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:07 pm
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 and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information

Relative to my post earlier,what was incorrect or misleading ? I just pasted stuff from the eurotunnel web site, which stated there wasn't current delays but had been due to industrial action. It appears this action (based on Educators link, which I can't read) took the form of implementing post brexit procedures.
I don't feel procedures implemented as a part of industrial action accurately reflect how things will be.
@ dannyh and Edukator, most people don't see everything as completely black or white, good or bad things are normally just grey.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:16 pm
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@ dannyh and Edukator, most people don’t see everything as completely black or white, good or bad things are normally just grey.

The last time I accidentally hit my thumb with a hammer, it didn't hurt quite as much as the previous time.

Does this mean hitting my thumb with a hammer is a good thing?


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:29 pm
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Does this mean hitting my thumb with a hammer is a good thing?

I'd never say it was. But worrying about hitting your thumb with a sledge hammer when you're using a claw hammer is pretty pointless.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 12:54 pm
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Show me were I’ve posted anything “pro” leave ?

Click on "taxi25" > Forums > Replies created, then read posts with the heading "EU Referendum – are you in or out?"

You started as a clearly stated leave and are now a Brexit apologist trying to minimise or deny any adverse efffects of Brexit. I clearly stated "ports" and you switched it to "Eurotunnel" and you acused me of getting it wrong.

You might be hard of reading and understanding Taxi25, but don't assume other people are.


 
Posted : 05/03/2019 1:31 pm
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