[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Nothing new

Nothing in the points of substance

Hardly news just sun click bait

Look at your extract

But Boris last night said anything longer than 24 months — effectively to March 30, 2021 — would be a mistake that would leave Brexit voters feeling betrayed.

He will be claiming the earth is round next

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

Boris really knows how this diplomacy thing works!

So nothing at all about the timing of when he chose to speak, the way he chooses to position himself?
Clue...
The news isn't just what he said, the why, how and when are more important. It is the start of a serious amount of tory infighting at the conference. The fact it's the party of government makes that news.

We know all that - what's new?

Just gives Bojo the attention he doesn't deserve

The Tories always self destruct on Europe

It's as if the Sun says last week that J McD will show he doesn't understand the things he's responsible for (e.g. PFI this time) and Corbyn will lie about austerity and inequality.

All BS but all part of both sides highly successful narratives and manipulation of the truth.

Poor old Boris apparently he is struggling to get by on his £146k salary....

Austerity is not just for poor people it would seem

Guess the quotes:

Is it ever a mistake to give people the opportunity to vote? I don’t think so.

and

There must be [...] no second referendum.

So, who said what?

Pigface - Member

I don't know why May doesn't sack Boris, there aren't that many swivel eyed loons who support him.

Every last swivel eyed loon counts though- that's why she had to buy extra ones from chain reaction.

Trump opposes EU-UK WTO deal in blow to May’s Brexit plans
https://www.ft.com/content/92bb5636-a95b-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97?

The US joined other major agricultural exporters including Argentina, Brazil and New Zealand in signing a letter sent last week to the EU and UK’s WTO ambassadors objecting to the plan to split the quotas that cover everything from New Zealand butter and lamb to US poultry and wheat. 

I thought that this was going to be the 'easiest trade deal in history' ?

That isn't even the trade deal. That's the "oh we can just jump into WTO rules, it's straightforward and the rest of the world does fine with it" deal.

You know, it's enough to make you wonder if anyone has thought this through.

All the civil servants thought it through a couple of years ago. But there aren't 17 million of them.

Basic problem is that we've developed a political class who are so divorced from reality that they think they can make things happen just by talking about them. Like the (in)famous (I think it's disputed) quote "when we act, we create our own reality". That works for fairly straightforward and limited systems like tinkering with how benefits are paid or schools are managed, especially if you don't care about the fallout. But it can't overturn physical reality, and the physical reality is that we have no way of replicating the functions of the EU in the time scale required, nor is there a physical solution to the irish border problem on any time scale. Simply saying it will be ok doesn't make it so. And these issues are far too big to be just allowed to fail completely. But the politicians in their Westminster bubble, all full of leadership plots and soundbites, haven't realised that yet (ok I'm sure plenty have by now, but are still too scared to say it in public). And most of the UK population hasn't thought past next week's Coronation street, whichever side of the vote they were on.

Another thing they seemed to have collectively failed to grasp is the concept of 'negotiation'

It amounts to more than issuing a list of your demands, then everyone else agreeing to your wish-list. You'd never know it though, watching these clowns.

According to them, failing to immediately grant everything, immediately and without question, classes as being obstructive.

The arrogance is breathtaking

They need lessons.

slowoldman
You know, it's enough to make you wonder if anyone has thought this through.

Of course no one thought it through. Neither side ever intended it to happen.
Hence BoJo, hence Farage saying 52:48 for remain meant he would be staying in the gravy train for a good while longer.

in your opinion, when does the remit of the EU referendum run out?

Trump opposes EU-UK WTO deal in blow to May’s Brexit plans

Simply saying it will be ok doesn't make it so.

in your opinion, when does the remit of the EU referendum run out?

Rhetorical question. Brexit is happening.

Giving two conference calls on dealing with implications today !!!

The details are actually very interesting - if a bit dry and legal - but the idea of no plan simply doesn’t hold up, at least not at the industry level. We can cope, just need to get on with it 😉

Don't see much sign of it happening myself.

There’s the difference!!

Been a v busy Brexshit week for me on top of other issues - have to be v careful not to say or write Brexshit in a professional capacity!!!!

You're not making it happen either - just getting excited about it. There's a difference.

On the contrary we are getting on with being ready for life after Brexshit. Much better than doing nothing. And it’s interesting too!

Not excited but prepared

We too we are preparing to lose at least 10% of our turnover.
Yes, very interesting.
Honestly we can't wait to let the lion roar and deal with the needless shit storm coming our way.

Also preparing.

A lot of preparing is getting people to understand that in the standards world we will have lost a lot of influence. The EU will set standards and we will comply, not because we do or don’t want to, but because that is commercial reality.

Yep meeting next week about ways around potential funding loss for post H2020 research grants.

Great coz budgets aren't tight enough already, and I really can't be bothered wasting my time in a v dull meeting, brexshitters that one's on you!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41511790

Brexit putting the Royal Marines out of a job.

I wonder if the brexshitters envisaged this.

Some great lateral thinking there Tom

Davis send to think that he can negotiate a specific trade deal just with Germany

(1/3) Post #Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else

Is he lying to upset the EU or pandering to the swivel eyed?
Or just bonkers?

We too we are preparing to lose at least 10% of our turnover.
Yes, very interesting.
Honestly we can't wait to let the lion roar and deal with the needless shit storm coming our way.

But, but, but - think of all the interesting work it will create for those who are out of the firing line!

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when does the remit of the EU referendum run out?

Rhetorical question.

Some possible answers for you…

- only if the result of a subsequent referendum rescinds it before we have left
- until the next general election
- until the first general election after the referendum (why should a referendum bind future governments?)
- only if a government is formed before we Leave that wants us to remain
- when whoever is currently PM says so
- when both parliaments vote for a change or to ask the public via a referendum
- the very day we are no longer a member of the EU (even if we are entering a transition period)
- the day we have deemed to have left the Single Market and/or Customs Union
- a period of time equivalent to a normal parliamentary session
- a period of time equivalent to the current parliamentary session
- a "generation"
- as long as the 1975 referendum
- after we have left, but in transition, and a new government wants to renegotiate membership
- after transition is over, and a new government wants to renegotiate membership
- when public opinion has turned against Leaving
- when it is clear that Leaving will not take the form voters were led to expect
- only if a "rejoin" referendum is won by a simple majority
- only if a "rejoin" referendum is won by a super majority

brexshit is a f****** stupid idea, and most businesses will be making plans to deal with the fall out. I am still wondering what happens when the sunny uplands don't emerge. What happens when the US decides that we will have chlorine chicken, when farmers go bust because they can't survive in a free trade environment.

Details like what the customs post March 2019 will look like and what happens when people and goods are faced with hours in transit getting through. What will be the reaction if BMW relocates Mini production or Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port gets shut down, to keep the supply chains working. etc.

Will people just have another pint of beer and carry on watching X factor. Or will they wonder why things aren't getting better.

I am still wondering what happens when the sunny uplands don't emerge.

2. We blame others " for doing britain down"

We certainly wont be blaming the people who voted for this or the people who lied to get the vote.

I'm aware of people preparing too, THM. The UK used to be the favourite destination for a "séjour linguistique" or "voyage pédagogique". Madame has taken kids to the UK for the last 16 years but will be visiting Strasbourg and Germany next.

The last trip to England had a Brexit flavour with a dreadful welcome from some families. The brochure of one company she works with now reads roughly "the quality of welcome in families is sometimes limited to the minimum", they recommend youth hostels instead.

The brochure which used to be mainly the UK now has more trips to European neighbours.

Generations of European kids have been given a positive view of the UK and a chance to visit. Brexit is changing that.

I'm doing a week's work for a French company next week. I've spent £0 and 0 minutes on paperwork.

Sabadell bank has just announced it's quitting Barcelona because of the uncertainty over the future of the province. Think about that.

Caixabank too .

edit : and they are not the only ones . lots of small firms have done it too .

Ordered some niche bikepacking jubilee clips from the USA. They cost about £25. Got a customs slip through the door today. Need to pay £12 including a £8 handling fee to get them out of the post office.

Is this what Brexit is going to be like for everything we buy from Europe? The whole bloody thing depresses me.

you cant put a price on taking back control . and remember it is going to fund the nhs .........

Ordered some niche bikepacking jubilee clips from the USA. They cost about £25. Got a customs slip through the door today. Need to pay £12 including a £8 handling fee to get them out of the post office.

Is this what Brexit is going to be like for everything we buy from Europe? The whole bloody thing depresses me.

No because we will be making things in Britain won't way as part of the isolationism, we are ace at making shit

I assume rumours of Theresa May setting up a future trade deal with North Korea aren’t true.

Anyone know?

some great lateral thinking there

Did you not read the bit about foreign purchases rising significantly in cost... eg all those big ticket items like F35s, Apache AH64Es, TLAMs etc etc thanks to Brexshit?

This is inevitable because tge military was already having a hard time balancing manpower vs equipment commitments.

*Double post

Get ready for more US-style megafarms. We already have about 800. But It's OK because Gove says it's not happening.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-07-21/michael-gove-intensive-farming-defra

Let's ask the Telegraph readers. There is 1 comment on this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/pets/news-features/does-uk-really-want-mega-farms/

Or do we ask the Guardian readers? There are 946 comments on this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/18/rise-of-mega-farms-how-the-us-model-of-intensive-farming-is-invading-the-world

So France & Germany have said that there can be no transition until the exit bill is settled.

It's almost as if the schedule that Davis signed up to on day 1 is actually a schedule he has to stick to, rather than wasting time & effort trying to speak to EU states behind Barnier's back he should just get on with the job in hand.

TBH I think the EU is a being a tad unrealistic perhaps even Bullying as the RW press would call it.

Its blindingly obvious that how generous we will be with payments is related to how generous they are with access and the two are intrinsically linked.
Its like a divorce you wont be massively generous if you dont have access to your kids ...you will just be as arsey as they are

The EU know this which is why they want a generous settlement for us - the idea we should pay for the budgets even if we are not part of them is frankly nuts.

the more this goes on the more I think the criteria exists simply to prevent any deal occuring.

So France & Germany have said that there can be no transition until the exit bill is settled.

It's almost as if....

They are deliberately blocking the proper negotiations

And we, our press, and remoaners are on THER side. Remarkable 😯