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Dissonance dissonance again.
Labour should not try and stop the Tory policy agenda, for fear of being blamed for stopping the Tories/UKIP getting their way.
O… kay…
Struggling to come to terms with 'winning' a war and then realising that one of the more immediate things that would come after was a bumping down in the world pecking order has been happening since 1945. Maybe Brexit will finally make that sink in, but the unforeseen possible consequences worry me a lot.
There were plenty of people in 1920s Europe who would have laughed away any suggestion that Armageddon was 10-15 years away.
^^^^^^
Sorry - should have made it clear - that comment related to the Guardian article about Brexit forcing a reckoning within the UK. The article is someone searching around for an unintended positive. I have my doubts on both counts - whether anything can make some people realise we are no longer in the 1850s and whether any such realisation would be worth the potential cost a la the 1920s-1930s.
Does anyone know what the Honda news about to go public is? Whisperings that it could be big (and bad).
Rumour is end of Swindon
It's about what you'd expect, isn't it?
Good job this is is leaked whilst there's at least a chance of turning things around - however slim.
ill be the 4th person to post that then!
So much win.
Good job this is is leaked whilst there’s at least a chance of turning things around – however slim.
Well if it's another leave and we go situation maybe
We shall see what the Member for Swindon has to say about it
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24870/justin_tomlinson/north_swindon/recent
TBH with an EU-JPN trade deal why would they need us.
Brexits the icing on the cake.
Cripes, "cutting back production" is one thing, but closures is altogether different. Massive loss for Swindonians who voted 54.7% to leave the EU, and Wilshirians who voted 52.3% to leave.
that FT article on the way Hunt & Fox have bungled the Japan trade deal is obviously an opinion shared by Honda execs
O… kay…
penguins eat bananas.
Has about as much relevance to what you wrote as your comment did to mine.
Surely the EU's recent trade deal with Japan makes the japs staying long term in UK utterly pointless*, add that to the foreign ministers "hurry up Japan" letter & boom British made jap cars vanish all of a sudden. How many millions is wiped off our balance sheet?
* maybe the EU planned it that way?
Sunderland, Swindon, Midlands (FlyBMI)
All areas that voted Leave and now are taking a hit in their local economy.
Who next, Land Rover, Airbus......
Please someone, make it all stop.
& all the while the Brexiteers still are saying it's nothing to do with Brexit, their loss etc...
I'm sure Leyland will buy the factory so we can produce British cars for British people...
Surely the EU’s recent trade deal with Japan makes the japs staying long term in UK utterly pointless
The UK yes, but if they had a base in the EU it would make more sense just in terms of shipping times and market flexibility. The UK out of the EU is the worst possible combination.
& all the while the Brexiteers still are saying it’s nothing to do with Brexit, their loss etc…
Certainly not a Brexiteer, but as dudeofdoom says, surely this is more, if not totally about the EU-Japan free trade deal- with tariffs dropping to zero on car imports from Japan, why would Honda keep UK production going anyway?
The UK yes, but if they had a base in the EU it would make more sense just in terms of shipping times and market flexibility. The UK out of the EU is the worst possible combination.
Inconsequentials Mike.
Even Isla is getting in on the act.
"Counting cost of stockpiling, UK bike maker gears up for Brexit" - http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-stockpiling/counting-cost-of-stockpiling-uk-bike-maker-gears-up-for-brexit-idUKKCN1Q718N
Certainly not a Brexiteer, but as dudeofdoom says, surely this is more, if not totally about the EU-Japan free trade deal- with tariffs dropping to zero on car imports from Japan, why would Honda keep UK production going anyway?
because they still have to ship the cars to europe to sell them & theyve already heavily invested in the UK factory & workforce, & in 2016 Honda specifically warned that outside of the CU they simply couldnt make cars here due to rules of origing & tarifs
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/928673053424390145
This is ageing well:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/1042393177389506560?s=21
I would say that any foreign organisation that tells me what I should charge for my goods is detrimental to our sovereignty.
Luckily Mr Farage is here to fight my corner...
Its main policy will be that Britain shall “cease to be a member of the European Union and shall not thereafter make any treaty or join any international organisation which involves in any way the surrender of any part of the United Kingdom’s sovereignty”.
However speaking to his office today I'm told that the WTO are "the good guys".
****s the lot of them.
Certainly not a Brexiteer, but as dudeofdoom says, surely this is more, if not totally about the EU-Japan free trade deal- with tariffs dropping to zero on car imports from Japan, why would Honda keep UK production going anyway?
Because it's expensive to build new factories (or extend existing ones) if you don't have to.
Or put another way: You're a japanese executive. On the one hand, you can get out of the UK and guarantee yourself tariff free trade with Europe.
On the other hand, Theresa May and David Davis have some 'alternative arrangements'. They can't tell you exactly what they are, but they promise that they'll be amazing.
There's millions at stake. Which option seems safer?
Which option seems safer?
Unicorns are cute, though!
There’s millions at stake. Which option seems safer?
and like any sensible organisation they know the date they have to commit to Option A or B, guess that just expired.
ill be the 4th person to post that then!
N
I was the first days ago ...nowt to do with brexit, have you seen a civic type r , secondly and far less seriously than the type r Japan don't need the gateway into Europe that once was britain
Remember the football song I was on about a few weeks back
Went
Your ****ed and you know you are...
Best join in peoole
... have you seen a civic type r , secondly and far less seriously than the type r Japan don’t need the gateway into Europe that once was britain
In my home town in the far east, I think I have only seen one rather similar variant of Civic Type R. There are few around I guess but Type R is impractical for many. Honda Civic yes but Type R ... LOL!
Nahhh ... they can blame who they wish to close down the factory but there will always be someone waiting in the corner to enter/invest the market when they are ready.
True. But we won't be part of that market. We have chosen to be outside it. According to those now framing our future anyway.
secondly and far less seriously than the type r Japan don’t need the gateway into Europe that once was britain
Britain took that off the table, still in the EU and established and efficient workforce, fully up on the culture of the company and bought into it's values is hard to replicate. It was an asset to the company. It's value just got slashed - so 2 Options left for the EU market - build a new plant in EU or expand in Japan.
Loving the brexiteer comments online regards Honda - 'nope not us, we didnt do that..... They were gonna leave anyway..... Global decline in car sales.....' Etc. Etc. Etc
Mass desertion of car manufacturers was predicted prior to the referendum iirc. Couldn't possibly be Brexit.
F1 teams not happy either.
Looks like the tap is open for firms leaving the UK.
True. But we won’t be part of that market. We have chosen to be outside it. According to those now framing our future anyway.
I am referring to UK market.
Imagine there will only be Ford and few other remaining Japanese/Korean brands left in UK while all European brands uprooted, do you think non-local assembled / manufactured brand can sell there car here as they wish without compromising?
do you think non-local assembled / manufactured brand can sell there car here as they wish without compromising?
Yes. Next question?
F1 teams not happy either.
Linky? I'd be interested to read up on that. Not at all surprising though
It's the continued denial, by some leave campaigners/voters, that the vote to leave the Eu is having any negative effect at all that gets me. It's like they're political toddlers covered in chocolate denying eating a cake.
My local landlord (not a weatherspoons) thinks it's a good thing that he's removed European wines from his wine list. He's not replaced them with English wines, too expensive he cites. Like it's his little stab at Europe. The removal of consumer choice is not a good thing.
The removal of consumer choice is not a good thing
The actual Prime Minister did that when she said about the deal - so you will no longer have the right to work in 27 countries, & we cheered her.
He’s not replaced them with English wines, too expensive he cites.
He’s not replaced them with English wines, too reminiscent of paint stripper and in any case too expensive he cites.
FTFY.
I am referring to UK market.
Imagine there will only be Ford…
Ford do not carry out car assembly in the UK… engine manufacture etc is done here as part of a supply chain spread across our market (which is currently not just the UK).
People of Swindon, do you remember, a couple of years ago, all those educated, intelligent people who said this would happen? And you stuck your fingers in your ears and went "la la la la, I don't like foreigners"
Well tough shit, you voted for this, now your ****ed.
Swindon was near a 50% split, as far as we know the majority of the people losing their jobs could have voted remain. Whichever way they voted, it is the politicians that has ****ed them.
Whether by the last 2 years actions, or the years of covering their arses by scapegoating the EU leading to the result.
The people of Swindon were told over and over again that others were lying about the effects of leaving on UK production…
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1018037595379503104?s=21
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/1042393177389506560?s=21…stop being angry with voters… many of them can now finally see the "Project Fear" tag for what it was. And still more will watch what happens and what is announced over the next 6 weeks and come to the same conclusion.
It is hard to resist the urge to retweet those when they come back up, along with the word bollocks
So Honda have left the UK because of the EU trade deal! Irony of ironies. A massive tarriff on Japanese cars post brexit will teach them a lesson!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/05/japanese-ambassador-warns-companies-could-leave-uk-over-brexit/blockquote >
Yep, the corporate benefits bill is going to make the social benefits bill look like loose change with all the incentives that are going to be offered to keep companies in the UK, and it still might not be enough to overcome the non financial complications.
But thats ok in tory land, because the money goes to shareholders and not needy people.
It’s the continued denial, by some leave campaigners/voters, that the vote to leave the Eu is having any negative effect at all that gets me. It’s like they’re political toddlers covered in chocolate denying eating a cake.
Of course there will be some upheavals or crying fouls etc when there is a major change, who wouldn't?
The change (to leave the EU bureaucratic system) is just perceived as negative from those that feel they are no longer in control but to others it is time to change. Negative effect? That is only in the mind.
The entire system needs a total "reboot with a clean installation".
Even the political system will change with new parties forming like having ... (my prediction)
Tories remainders
Tories Leave
"New" Labour Leave
New new Labour remainders
So Honda have left the UK because of the EU trade deal! Irony of ironies. A massive tarriff on Japanese cars post brexit will teach them a lesson!
Honda haven't left. They are planning to Leave because we have announced that we are shrinking the "home market" their current factory operates in from being just about all of Europe, to being just Little Britain. That completely transforms the calculation that they, and others, have to make, when planning for the future.
. A massive tarriff on Japanese cars post brexit will teach them a lesson!
No it won't, the UK will just pay more for cars. Tariffs are a consumer tax.
That is only in the mind.
Tell that to those on the production lines in Swindon,Sunderland, Coventry and all the other thousands of job losses that are already announced because of this shit show.
and you know, when jobs are lost like this, families split up, people commit suicide, people fall into depressions they never recover from. Generations are lost in those areas.
Only an inhuman arshole could welcome such devastation.
The entire system needs a total “reboot with a clean installation”.
You'd better be ready to pay the taxes required to help those hit hardest by the industries they work in being levelled ready for whatever it is you think we should be installing over the top of their crushed careers.
Honda haven’t left. They are planning to Leave because we have announced that we are shrinking the “home market” their current factory operates in from being just about all of Europe, to being just Little Britain. That completely transforms the calculation that they, and others, have to take, when planning for the future.
I bet the Koreans and the Chinese rather see them leave the market.
In the far east the Korean and Chinese car brands are already taking up a chunk of the Japanese car market via some form of join venture with local brands, while Toyota remains strong the smaller brands are feeling the pressure.
Tell that to those on the production lines in Swindon,Sunderland, Coventry and all the other thousands of job losses that are already announced because of this shit show.
and you know, when jobs are lost like this, families split up, people commit suicide, people fall into depressions they never recover from. Generations are lost in those areas.
Only an inhuman arshole could welcome such devastation.
Have you not thought about those who have endured or suffered 61 years in EU bureaucratic system? Haven't they suffered enough under a system they don't believe in? Things come and go like a cycle so this is just another cycle.
You’d better be ready to pay the taxes required to help those hit hardest by the industries they work in being levelled ready for whatever it is you think we should be installing over the top of their crushed careers.
If that is the new system of tax so be it.
Have you not thought about those who have endured or suffered 61 years in EU bureaucratic system? Haven’t they suffered enough under a system they don’t believe in? Things come and go like a cycle so this is just another cycle.
Troll troll troll troll troll. Putin's turned the internet on again!!
Have you not thought about those who have endured or suffered 61 years in EU bureaucratic system?
Chewy these 3500 honda workers & the 35000 in the supply chain are losing their jobs because Brexit creates more bureaucracy
But other than that, errr carry on
Troll troll troll troll troll. Putin’s turned the internet on again!!
I am sorry if I am the lone (perhaps only) descending view on this thread (many or most descending views left).
If Remainders only listened to those concern views many years ago, UK would not have been in such a predicament having to exit the EU bureaucratic system.
We are all in the same boat facing change so change it should be ....
Loving the brexiteer comments online regards Honda – ‘nope not us, we didnt do that….. They were gonna leave anyway….. Global decline in car sales…..’ Etc. Etc. Etc
Imagine if it all goes [i]really[/i] wrong.
"The shelves are usually empty in Tesco, you're just trying to make Brexit look bad"
"Insulin? Who needs insulin? We didn't own half the globe by threatening natives with insulin"
"I don't know what you're moaning about, that police station has been on fire for years"
That won't happen (well, not to the degree you have exaggerated for comic effect), but if it did, they would say…
Of course there will be some upheavals or crying fouls etc when there is a major change, who wouldn’t?
It is hard to resist the urge to retweet those when they come back up, along with the word *
Very hard to resist.
https://twitter.com/danieljhannan/status/644428141302255616?s=21
. A massive tarriff on Japanese cars post brexit will teach them a lesson!
No it won’t, the UK will just pay more for cars. Tariffs are a consumer tax.
NB I was joking about the tariff. nose face spite etc
If Remainders only listened to those concern views many years ago, UK would not have been in such a predicament having to exit the EU bureaucratic system.
The EU doesn't have a monopoly on bureaucracy and I doubt there'll be any less after we've left; we're quite good at generating our own.
The EU's bureaucratic system will continue to affect the UK after we've left. We will continue to trade with the EU, so will continue to meet their standards. Unfortunately, the UK was one of the main influencers pushing for those standards to be reasonable.
The EU is a long way from perfect, but it's our nearest neighbour and we're stuck with it, whether we're in or out. Believe or it not, we were one of the big players, and we'll go to zero influence.
Whilst leave have gone to great lengths to effectively discount any bad news regarding Brexit and corporations post hoc, I don't think I can recall what they said WOULD constitute bad news for leave. OK a few car factories and, say 100,000 jobs can be discounted as "trends in motor manufacturing", but what would be a sign to the ERG that we are basically committing economic suicide. Unicorn horn prices tanking? Cake production falling?
Can anyone link to any precient economic information where leave have said "If we see this, then it's not good, but that's a cost we will have to bear" (obviosuly zealots won't say don't do it).
Anyone?
A couple of years ago I posted this:
Edukator
Member
In an if I were a European commissioner what would I do line of thinking:
– aim to put as bigger spanner in the works of the city as possible and aim to take a slice of the money to be made in commodity, currency and equity markets.
– aim to put an equally big spanner in the works on any industry base in the UK directly competing with an industry at home.
– demonstrate clearly to my population that my decision to remain in Europe was the right one.
– encourage my national champion industries to use the low pound to take over manufacturing capacity in the UK to guarantee a place in the market.
– levy customs taxes at a rate that made any attempt at fiscal and social dumping to raise productivity futile.
– take the opportunity to further regulate the financial industry to reduce tax fraud and evasion using off-shore products.
Posted 2 years ago
So far so good.
Tired - a rise in cost of (or worse, a scarcity of) claret is I believe considered a red line of reasonableness to the ERG.
Still the same remainer's whining away, Honestly ,couldn't make it up.
Still the same remainer’s whining away, Honestly ,couldn’t make it up.
nice evidence based opinion, like it.
Still the same remainer’s whining away, Honestly ,couldn’t make it up
Remainer's what?
Anyway, I'm a different remainer whining away, I dodn't often come to this thread.
Don't need to make it up, unlike the lies from Leave
Hmmm I always forget “rules of origin” that’s gonna another funtastic kicker for us.
philxx1975
Member
Still the same remainer’s whining away, Honestly ,couldn’t make it up.
Yeah you traitorous remoaners, why aren't you celebrating the loss of 30,000 jobs in Swindon with patriotic pride !
These arent job losses dictated to us by some faceless Eurocrats, these are good old local job losses for local people
This is a public service announcement. The killfile can enhance your forum experience considerably.
Can someone please post something positive about brexit? Surely it must bring something good or the country would not have voted.
Please refrain from using the following answers as we have heard these before:
Taking back control.
It’s the will of the people.
What I’m looking for is a definite brexit will be good for me because..........
Please feel free to share what aspect of your life will be improved once we leave.
That guardian article is really saddening to read, as it rings true.
The country needs to burn and decide which parts it really wants to extinguish in essence.
I fear the NHS and many of the things we genuinely should be proud of* will be left in ashes though.
*Not the 70 year old WWII jingoistic BS that seems like the holy to so many!
Still the same remainer’s whining away, Honestly ,couldn’t make it up
You won get over it 🙂
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Dunno I think you miss out and end up in a bubble if you do that.
I think you have to see all viewpoints.
brexit will be good for me because………I have a middle class reason not to waste money on a dyson