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I am in the Leavers are thick as shxt camp.
W
It was, and still is obvious, what the implications of leaving the EU are.
I am French, my wife is English, we live in France, have 3 UK born children, have property in France and UK. And we travel between the 2 countries a lot.
Brexit is a huge issue for us, leavers can all go and **** themselves as far as I am concerned. And the more they suffer from it, the better.
Whilst I don't think that making rash generalisations about any group of people is a good idea or does us any favours, I present for your viewing pleasure this nugget from a leaver on an open pro-brexit FB group.
The plan is to do trade deals ect when we have left did not say plan on voting paper it said leave or remain or deal we had trade with them before we joined so what is the difference up to our negotiators to get good deals that's there jobs that's why we pay our taxes they work for us the voters so please remainers get it thru your thick heads it DID not say leave with a deal on the referendum paper
...
agian up to those we have in parliament to do there jobs that's what they get paid for or what point is there in them having jobs like all leave voters we did not vote on a deal with EU we voted to leave deals are town to our government and there job is to make sure we leave the Eu if it's no deal then 17.4 of us will live with it
I'm not unconvinced that the entire page isn't satire. It's so hard to tell any more. What do other readers think?
I am in the Leavers are thick as shxt camp.
Stand up guy ...a leaver admitting
Well I think he's got a point Cougar. It's true they did just vote to leave. They didn't consider the consequences, they weren't interested. It's the job of "them others" to make everything work OK afterwards. As I have always said, Brexit is an act of faith. No evidence or reasoning is required.
Interesting page though. They don't seem to have heard up-skirting has been made illegal.
Well, quite.
I'm more and more convinced that it's an elaborate troll. The site responded to one post with "it'll be fine, just stock up on lettuce."
Meanwhile Kate Hoey continues her pathetic little sniping at Guy Verhofstadt.
Is this the one where she accuses him of being an unelected bureaucrat? I'm absolutely no admirer of Verthofstadt(*) - it's people like him that would make me want to leave the EU - but it's profoundly disturbing that Kate Hoey knows so little of the EU she is so keen to leave.
https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1093540030633730048
I’m more and more convinced that it’s an elaborate troll.
I've just been told, "You are obviously either an ai bot or a humourless **** who doesn't understand memes or metaphor... Which is no surprise as the eu is trying to ban memes..." which pretty much clinches it for me as a troll / satire page.
Brexit is an act of faith. No evidence or reasoning is required.
Oh please don't turn this into a religion thing STW will end up melting down in a massive Chernobyl poof of smoque....or a humanist funeral
Eh, you're the one equating faith with religion. It's possible to have faith in non-religious things too.
I don't see brexit as a religion. It's more of a cult.
Eh, you’re the one equating faith with religion. It’s possible to have faith in non-religious things too.
wrong again..
Who's wrong again, you or Cougar and me?
Just watching ‘This Week’ on catch up
Seeing some corbynite half-wit explain how, yes, Jeremy Corbyn is rabidly anti-EU and enabling Brexit, but that’s all fine and great and brilliant because it’s Jeremy, and he’s just great isn’t he?
You’re enabling a right wing coup you utter ****-wits!!
29th March 2019 is going to be amazing! I’m going to wake up in my Union Jack jim-jams to the sound of a squadron of Spitfires racing overhead and leaving a trail of hot buttered crumpets behind them
I’ll run to the corner shop past all the British children who are laughing and squealing with excitement as they make a beautiful statue of the queen out of happy wriggling bulldog puppies – with two corgis for her eyebrows!
Bunting flutters everywhere and the man from the betting shop steps into the street – “Guess what! England just won the World Cup and The Ashes and The Grand National and here’s the best bit – Boris put a bet on it for everyone! you’re all MILLIONAIRES!!!”
The red arrows fly overhead dropping fish and chips as I walk into the corner shop, get my morning paper and go to the counter. “How much please?” I say to the Asian lad there. “1 pence, everything in the whole shop now costs just 1p!” he laughs, “leave it on the counter, I’m off back to ****stan – we all are!”
And he’s right! Outside in the streets jolly old Nigel Farage is leading a huge crowd of happy foreigners – Turks, Poles, Romanians, Syrians – there’s even a few English people with heavy suntans mixed up in there! Nigel’s playing Rule Britannia on a long pipe, rather like the pipe that takes the gas into your oven, and they’re all following and smiling and talking foreign, bless them!
Just then Boris flies overhead in a Concorde made of Bank of England gold – “Don’t worry!” he laughs “I’ve cut out all the bits the French made!” and with that he crashes into the ground at 1200 miles an hour, along with the economy, the country and all the dozy nostalgic foreigner-fearing ****wits who fell for his bullshit.
https://inktank.fi/writer-beautifully-trolls-leavers-with-comic-description-of-brexit-day/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboar d">Latest from the guardian
Suggestion that cross party will say we back your deal to may, but then you have to put it to the public with either accept the deal or remain
I think the best way to heal a deeply divided country is by calling people stupid.
Heal? I'm putting together proposals for partition. I'm working on a map which gives UKRemain all the coastline. Well let's be realistic, the Leavers aren't going to want to go anywhere are they or have any contact with the outside world? Funnily enough my plan also gives UKRemain most of the pretty bits. Odd how that works out.
I think the best way to heal a deeply divided country is by calling people stupid.
Me too. At least that way some of them might stay inside and not vote for stuff they have absolutely no idea about again.
If people don’t like being called stupid, then they shouldn’t do stupid things.
If the car driver that close-passed me yesterday when all he had to do was wait five seconds objects to being called a ****, then he shouldn’t act like a ****.
You can’t have it both ways.
You’re enabling a right wing coup you utter ****-wits!!
One of the things I’ve come to realise about all this labour/corbyn enabling Brexit stuff is that it was pretty stupid to think otherwise. We all hung on to the hope that labour could/should stop it all but there was absolutely no reason to suggest they would. They did after all campaign at the last election to implement Brexit, so protesting that they are doing just that seems a little daft.
everyone knows that manifesto pledges are writ in water
& ultimately with the overriding goal of helping those at the bottom, Brexit being set to hurt those the most, most people assumed that would be Corbyns constructive ambiguity would last as long as necessary to kill it
everyone knows that manifesto pledges are writ in water
I’m sure the Liberal Democrat’s would agree 😀
Seriously though, for anyone who was interested in finding out, labour’s and corbyn’s position on Brexit has always been pretty clear. It’s pretty silly to ignore that and then complain that they’re not doing what you assumed or hoped they would.
labour’s and corbyn’s position on Brexit has always been pretty clear.
Free movement of goods but not people? The thing the EU ruled out 2 years ago?
Just red-tinged cakeeatism as opposed to the Tory version.
When it rapidly became apparent that we weren’t going to be able to send squadrons of Lancasters to get our cake and that the E.U. were going to be united and consistent in saying ‘no, it doesn’t work like that’, it kicked off the last two and a half years. Two and a half wasted years that can basically be summarized as “shit, we’ve made a massive balls up here, but the one thing we cannot, MUST NOT, do is admit it”.
Eh, you’re the one equating faith with religion. It’s possible to have faith in non-religious things too.
I don’t see brexit as a religion. It’s more of a cult.
It’s a ****g death cult.
Think I said this 500pages ago 😉 when we didn’t know what was going on.
this myth of english exceptionalism is a damaging thing.
At least someone is looking beyond the name calling…
https://twitter.com/dearleavers/status/1093781678961709058?s=21
…anyone still calling all Leave voters either stupid or racist is part of the problem.
I don’t think you should name call though and the whole leaver/remainder thing is just another tool to manipulate people.
Calling people out as stupid just galvanises them to more stupidity.
Seriously though, for anyone who was interested in finding out, labour’s and corbyn’s position on Brexit has always been pretty clear.
I'm not sure "Labour" and "Corbyn" have held the same position on Brexit at any point since he became leader, have they? Keeping a "referendum with a Remain option" on the table, while also perusing Brexit at any cost, seeking full access to the Single Market, while ruling out FoM… clearly a complete contradictory mess…
…and as for "not a single job lost"… that might be a "clear position", but it's lying to people, isn't it. Telling people what they want to hear, with no regard for the real life effects on those people of the policy you espouse.
this myth of english exceptionalism is a damaging thing.
And possibly a history tinted by rather good war films where we pluckily single handily won the war.
I’m not suggesting we did/didn’t before it all kicks off !!!!
You’re enabling a right wing coup you utter ****-wits!!
The right wing coup has been active for a while now.
Being in the EU hasn't prevented it.
The only thing that would stop it would be a left-wing government. That isn't hard to grasp.
Being in the EU hasn’t prevented it.
Theres a very good reason that the far right headbangers in the Tory party want us out of the EU. Thats because it prevents them taking a torch to the things they don't like... environmental controls, workers rights etc, etc...
Once out, there will be a bonfire of all those things. They're looking forward to having a field day and destroying all the social progress the labour party has ever made
A lot of labour MP's are belatedly coming round to the fact that this is now a looming possibility, and it is being enabled at every step by the labour front bench. I think what we've seen this week is Corbyn and his cabal laying the ground ready for whipping their MPs to vote through Mays deal.
That will mean the end of the labour party in its present form, but that doesn't mean they won't do it. I struggle to see any logic in anything going on on either front bench. Its like some kind of collective insanity has taken hold
If you were in control, what would you change first about life in the UK?
I wonder what Caroline Lucas is going to say when the answer to that question is ‘get rid of all the coloureds’.
The trouble is that Leavers say some things that are reasonable and a lot of things that aren’t. The fact is, though, that not one of the reasonable things (regional inequality for example) will be made better by Brexit. The Leave campaign WAS a Trojan Horse for racism, though. Why else would Farage’s immigrant line look so swarthy in complexion? I don’t think it would have had the same effect if it had been made up of wholesome looking Scandinavians......
I do actually think that Leave supporters who have seen the error of their ways deserve respect.
Meanwhile in the fevered heads of the Sunday Express
A curry house too! Not Rules, or a proper pie and mash place! Off with their heads!
Also, on the whole “Don’t call those sweet old Leavers stupid” thing.....
I thought one of the major things that Leavers were ‘fed up of’ was political correctness or ‘beating around the bush’ whilst being afraid of causing offence?
If so, getting all hurt by being called ‘stupid’ because their actions were manifestly stupid comes across a bit.......oh, now what is that phrase again......oh, yes, that’s right SNOWFLAKE.
I’m more than happy to listen to reasoned arguments why Brexit will be good for the country, it is just that in the past (nearly 1500) pages, I cannot recall a single compelling reason why Brexit is a good idea.
I will not be forgiving nor forgetting if we voluntarily go down the pan. And if I ever find myself in a position (perhaps a queue for a food bank - who knows) and there is a Leaver there who says “I can’t believe it, this is terrible, I never voted for this” the last words they are ever likely to hear will be “Yes you did”.
I struggle to see any logic in anything going on on either front bench.
The logic is is the same as it’s always been. Both parties are fighting prevent a split that will make them unelectable as a future govt. the solution is probably a cross-party agreement for ‘the good of the country’. That also will result in both parties exploding. If that happens the far right will have a massive opportunity to fill the vacuum. We should be careful what we wish for.
Anyone who cites "fear of what the far right will do" as a reason for enabling Brexit, which was backed by the far right from across the world, can get in the sea.
I’ll bet the Curry House is happy, though. I guess they could be described as ‘political heavyweights’, but they definitely can be in more literal terms.
I reckon we’re talking poppadoms, starters, mains, rice, naan and a vegetable side each. Minimum.
Good lads!
The logic is is the same as it’s always been. Both parties are fighting prevent a split that will make them unelectable as a future govt. the solution is probably a cross-party agreement for ‘the good of the country’. That also will result in both parties exploding. If that happens the far right will have a massive opportunity to fill the vacuum. We should be careful what we wish for.
Is that a long way of saying “appeasing the racists within their own party”?
Looks like May is trying to delay the legally binding vote even further, by moving it back in to March.
Can-kicking has now become an absolutely insane form of brinksmanship. What will the wording of the vote be now?
You now have two options:
1) My shitty deal
2) Economic Armageddon
So whats it going to be?
Anyone who cites “fear of what the far right will do”
You do realise how the far right operate don’t you? It’s not appeasement, just hard pragmatism. If the likes of JRM and Farage are to be stopped, you don’t go and blow up the two major institutions that form the bedrock of our political system.
Delivering the policies of the Far Right, to stop "their people" gaining power, has got us to where we are today. And it will keep sliding that way… it will never stop… unless you take a stand.
The idea that the far right will settle for just a little bit is insane. As soon as you cave on one thing they'll move onto the next, empowered by the fact that you've caved- in fact, ever more convinced that they're right.
Brexit has proven that… look how far the idea of what the Leave vote is a mandate for has shifted in the last few years.
Giving the far right an inch lets them take a foot. They have to be faced down. Hopefully within a parliamentary setting.
Having said that, they look quite fierce, but they’ve always been the same: a handful of donkey jacketed hard lads being egged on by a rump of micro-cocked, ruddy red old tossers. When push comes to shove they usually get their bottoms smacked and put back in their box.
You cannot reason with these people. They are zealots who simply refuse to compromise, and consider others pragmatism as weakness to be exploited.
That’s why we are where we are. It was the far right headbangers of the Tory party who wrote Mays totally uncompromising red lines for her, then demanded more.
They represent a very noisy, but tiny minority yet are repeatedly getting their own way, and driving us towards catastrophe, because spineless cowards refuse to face up to their ‘Enemies of the People’ nationalistic bullying.
It’s going to have to be done at some point, because if we don’t then god only knows where they’re dragging us!
I certainly don’t want to live in the type of society that Rees Mogg, IDS, Peter Bone, Bill Cash, Liam Fox and John Redwood would like to see.
And as for far right protestors taking to the streets? As someone wryly commented the other day:
“Where are they going to march too? The first open pub?”
Delivering the policies of the Far Right, to stop “their people” gaining power, has got us to where we are today. And it will keep sliding that way… it will never stop… unless you take a stand.
This - and the first thing you do is stand up and say that the referendum was (to all intents and purposes) illegally "won" and it was enabled by Leave.EU and Vote Leave combining forces, breaking electoral rules and there was the small matter of various Russian-based psyops and Cambridge Analytica.
So declare it all null and void, prosecute the lying shits like Johnson and Farage for treason and there could probably do with being a few heads at the BBC that roll too for enabling it all with their biased coverage and wall-to-wall Farage and JRM interviews.
And then spend quite a long time apologising to the EU as well.
I’m more than happy to listen to reasoned arguments why Brexit will be good for the country, it is just that in the past (nearly 1500) pages, I cannot recall a single compelling reason why Brexit is a good idea.
Yep that what makes it so bizarre that our leaders are full steam ahead on this, we couldn’t have boaty mcBoatface but we can have economic oblivion.
So declare it all null and void, prosecute the lying shits like Johnson and Farage
Best make it quick then because laughing boy is gearing up to get a party and gammons to elect him ....PRIME MINISTER
er blue passports and we may have possibly bullied some small countries into flogging us cheaper bananas an sugar.
But other than that the promises are starting to look a bit bare, all the fantastic trade deals that were going to be ready to sign.
Oh and we'll get the US forcing to dismantle our H&S and welfare standards and our farming subsidies to open the way for the crap they want to export to us and their demands to the way the NHS purchases its drugs and how much it pays for them.
The BBC has a fundamental problem when it uses as it's benchmark for balance coverage received in the popular press.
I was reading a German paper the other day, SDZ, and they were weighing the negatives of the division of Europe and the positives of those troublesome Brits ****ing off. There's more and more a feeling that apart from potential trouble in Ireland BREXIT isn't such a bad thing.
You mean they don't actually need us more than we need them. I feel lied to.
Who’s talking about giving an inch to the far right? Certainly not me. The far right need political chaos in which to thrive, which is the very thing I’m suggesting the leaderships of both parties are trying to avoid. If labour and the tories split, we’ll be in an Italy situation with coalition govt held to ransom by minority interests. Much as I like her I’m afraid that’s not going to be Caroline Lucas.
Who’s talking about giving an inch to the far right?
Both main parties are led by people claiming that we MUST end FoM. Not just insisting we leave the EU, but also ruling out any new close relationship with our neighbours that allows FoM to continue.
As for political chaos… if your think carrying out a Hard Brexit avoids this… well… let's be honest… I don't think for a second you do believe this at all.
Well that was always likely, not in a mood to listen to anyone or take a consensus view.
There’s more and more a feeling that apart from potential trouble in Ireland BREXIT isn’t such a bad thing.
I recall reading a blog by that Andrew Lilico brexit dude, where he listed the upsides of Brexit.
Most looked like total nonsense, but one of them was that a more united Europe would have higher growth, and since Europe is our main trading partner, this would result in more growth for the UK as a result.
Yes, really.
All forecasts have France and Holland also significantly hit… but, yes, only Ireland is predicted to be hit anywhere near as hard as us. Might all look reasonably rosey in Germany generally economically, but even then, not good for research or the arts.
if your think carrying out a Hard Brexit avoids this
You really should read my past posts on this thread if you seriously believe I want a hard Brexit. I’m about as remain as you can get. However, despite this I have come to think recently that hanging on to faint hopes of Brexit being reversed is, to use a topical phrase, wishing for unicorns.
The only hope now of avoiding the chaos of a no deal or hard Brexit is for a compromise deal between the tories and labour. Labour have made a move toward that yet now you’re all crying betrayal. Let me repeat again, Brexit is happening. The only choice is which type.
"Which type" has been broadly decided by both party leaders when they rejected FoM. May has had to come to terms with what that means, where as Corbyn is still blowing bubbles of deceit about it. We're heading for a hard Brexit… but both parties will accept the WA in March to ensure we get a transition period, and a softer landing to our Hard Brexit reality.
I'm aware you don't want a Hard Brexit… you need to drop the denial and accept that is what Corbyn is enabling. And then, once we're free of Single Market rules, we move closer to the Britain the international Hard Right are pushing for. And they won't stop there. Wait 'till the UK/USA trade deal happens.
The only hope now of avoiding the chaos of a no deal or hard Brexit is for a compromise deal between the tories and labour. Labour have made a move toward that yet now you’re all crying betrayal. Let me repeat again, Brexit is happening. The only choice is which type.
We have 7 weeks, there are 3 options open to do something on the 29th that the UK can do on it's own
1) Leave No Deal
2) Take the Deal
3) Stop Brexit
Option 4 applies if the EU want to play which is to extend - something I understand they are not keen on
There is no time to negotiate anything different unless it's very simple and basically what we have now for more cash and less say.
So no matter what cross party talking happens unless it delivers a Majority for May's deal then the options left are no deal or cancel it.
Want to actually call odds on those?
you need to drop the denial and accept that is what Corbyn is enabling
Now I’m really confused. Labour (not Corbyn on his own) are offering a deal which is by definition a soft Brexit. Or at least as soft as is possible. If by soft Brexit you mean no Brexit then no I don’t think that’s possible.
I suppose there’s a very small chance that faced with a no deal, May will unilaterally revoke A50 but that will almost certainly result in a collapse of the govt and Corbyn as PM so I doubt that will happen.
1) Leave No Deal
2) Take the Deal
3) Stop Brexit
Or at least as soft as is possible
They are ruling out FoM.
Ruling out EEA.
Ruling out operating in the Single Market.
Ruling out staying in the Customs Union.
This is a Hard Brexit.
Corbyn is still asking now for what May was seeking before she hit reality… trading on similar terms as we do now, but stopping the movement of workers. Not going to happen.
There were ways to Leave that were "soft", but it's too late for that now… thanks to May's FoM redline, which Corbyn has supported since the Referendum. The options now are…
1) Hard Brexit with no transition
2) Hard Brexit with transition
3) No Brexit
I suppose there’s a very small chance that faced with a no deal, May will unilaterally revoke A50 but that will almost certainly result in a collapse of the govt and Corbyn as PM so I doubt that will happen.
She is gone if no deal happens along with her government, this also relies on her being in charge on the 28th. Another round of votes, another deadlock and another confidence motion? Want to be the remain tory that enabled hard brexit?
This is a Hard Brexit
Well that’s as soft as you’re going to get I’m afraid. The alternative is no deal. And no deal is much easier to achieve than the alternative, as all they have to do is nothing.
Me too. At least that way some of them might stay inside and not vote for stuff they have absolutely no idea about again.
Ah. People should only vote if it's to agree with you. That always ends well.
Well that’s as soft as you’re going to get I’m afraid. The alternative is no deal. And no deal is much easier to achieve than the alternative, as all they have to do is nothing.
Quite. We can argue over semantics but Labour's proposal considerably softens May"s deal.
She is gone if no deal happens along with her government, ...
Nope, she will be stronger.
You will just have two more political parties to choose from:
New Tories - Remainders
New new Labour - Remainders
Tories - Leavers
Labour - Leavers
😀
Well that’s as soft as you’re going to get I’m afraid.
Yes, because of the FoM redline that both May and Corbyn have stuck to for the last three years. If we leave, we get Hard Brexit, because of the choices made by the political leaders of our two main parties. Hard Brexit is not "the will of the people", it is the choice of politicans. Primarily two politicans that are happy to damage these countries for their own narrow political ambitions (in my opinion).
Hard Brexit is not “the will of the people”
I really wish it wasn’t the case but have you missed all the stuff about immigration? If you’re defining hard brexit by the end of FOM then I’m afraid that’s exactly what people want.
“Legitimate Concerns.”
Plenty of surveys showing that if you explicitly link FoM to the Single Market… then respondents are heavily in favour of keeping FoM to stay in Single Market. Ending FoM is a choice made by our party leaders. Yes, Leave would not have won without the votes of people wanting to end FoM, but most people would be happy to keep FoM to stay in the Single Market.
---------
Ignoring all those that voted Leave to be like Norway, or like Switzerland, or for our own "bespoke" arrangement keeping us operating in the Single Market (or exact same benefits, or keeping frictionless trade and movement), is a mistake that politicans make all the time (after, but strangely not before the referendum). Don't be like them. The only decision made to end FoM was made by politicans… the people didn't make that call.
Don’t be like them. The only decision made to end FoM was made by politicans… the people didn’t make that call.
Didn't someone say the politicians represent the people's will?
Boris Johnson has just been interviewed on Radio 4
Its fine. Don't worry. Everything is going to be ok in the event of a no deal/crashing out Brexit, because..... erm....unicorns
In other news Deputy assistant commissioner Richard Martin has said that after Brexit policing would be where we were in the 1950's. I'm presuming this is good news to most brexiteers as it'll mean bobbies back on the beat, able to give young rapscallions a clip round the ear
Morris Minor Panda cars! Wicked. I love those.
Martin Keown gets everywhere...
While we're laughing at that lot… what about the people we voted for…
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1094912356864409605?s=21
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1094912361599770624?s=21
…are Corbyn's team useless or Machiavellian?
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1094917539061223425?s=21
…are Corbyn’s team useless or Machiavellian?
Well when you start a debate with 'I am told....'