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I wouldn’t be too worried about the gammons rioting though. Half of them wouldn’t as it would involve leaving the pub, and the other half would have to do it on their mobility scooters
Plus if we're counting those extreme enough to consider rioting, there's about twelve of them.
My son leaves for Belgium a day or so before we leave....and it'he's meant to come back the day after we leave from memory.
For a music festival or something.
I told him he might spend a bit longer over there than he might think!
Plus he is driving..... So he needs to potentially sort an insurance green card and get an international driving permit! Ffs!
Spam and tractors for everybody!
Tractors? We will be ploughing the fields with out bare hands.
The means of production at our fingertips and free of the euro capitalist shackles!
Great question OP. On balance I’m probably “in” but might change my mind at the ballot box!
On that note, if we get a second referendum will we be allowed a second thread?
Third referendum. And, no.
Of course.... Even if we get a deal...isn't this the prelude to years and years of negotiation for actual trade deals with the EU and everyone else?
Wasn't the divorce bill meant to be the easy part? That's how brexiters billed it!
So Brexit is going to be front page for years to come......
That will be a wake up call for those that think getting this deal is it, done and finished.....
Joy.
Indeed if we conclude replacement trade deals for those have now by 2030 it'll be good going
In other news, imagine the shame of fancying Thatcher!!!
https://tvweb.com/the-crown-season-4-cast-gillian-anderson-netflix/
So does anyone thing that May was clever enough to put the £65 fee up there so that they could look nice by cancelling it?
even more good news, only 3-6 months of shortages to look forward to.
#ProjectFear....... it's all just people trying to sell papers....pah experts.....doesn't no deal mean we stay in?
Not that I just spotted a BA sale for 1 way fares
Indeed if we conclude replacement trade deals for those have now by 2030 it’ll be good going
It will never end, sorry, look at Switzerland and that is the future.
and for clarity I don't mean a rich functional democracy! just endless negotiations and renegotiations.
Anyone else had Tim McSpoonfaces Brexit Propoganda through the letterbox today then? They seemed to have had a blitz on Manchester. Anywhere else?
If you feel like sticking it to the man.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/by-donkeys
They seemed to have had a blitz on Manchester. Anywhere else?
Nah I don't live in a Weatherspoons neighbourhood 😉
But the deluded are still deluded
We’ve no Spoons nearby either Mike.
They’ve done all over Manchester. They’ve even blitzed the People’s Republic of Chorlton! You can imagine the reception they got there? 😂
Nothing in here 😉 Guess the Media City beat is off limits to them!!
Called through the people's republic this morning, damm place is crying out for a starbucks
They’ve done all over Manchester.
Not made it as far as Bramhall. If one comes through my letterbox I'll set fire to it and hurl it into then King's Tap in Cheadle Hulme.
Nothing here yet, though I'm aware of their work. I suspect it's a nationwide phased campaign. There's one page where they're actually promoting unicorns.
They hit the Wirral Riviera with that crap last week, went straight into the recycling
Out of interest, if I order something from Germany now, and it’s delivered after 29/3, will I have to pay VAT/import duty when it’s delivered?
and it’s delivered after 29/3, will I have to pay VAT/import duty when it’s delivered?
Nobody knows....
So, yes then. Best get emailing begging them to crack on!
Out of interest, if I order something from Germany now, and it’s delivered after 29/3, will I have to pay VAT/import duty when it’s delivered?
In a hard brexit scenario yes.
quite what happens to the German VAT you will have paid I am not so sure.
Oh there’s a thought, is the forum going to be inundated with threads ‘why does the postie want £400+ To give me the canyon/yt I ordered last month?’
Yep probably will be, given how confused/angry people get at paying the right amount of tax it's going to be a bit mental.
No doubt that will all be the bloody Europeans fault...
Sighs
Yep probably will be, given how confused/angry people get at paying the right amount of tax it’s going to be a bit mental
Well if you've ordered from Non-EU it shouldn't be any different. Certainly wouldn't be news to me.
However a bit of glee for those that voted out and then complain about now paying tax. Bound to be a few.
If there are suddenly 1000s of packages a day needing holding at the post office depots awaiting tax, the delays will be epic, it can already add on a week if you are ordering from non EU.
And caught the news this morning on the way out.
They need us more than we need them
In the interest of the eu to avoid no deal
Seek support from rampant brexiteers ove the moderates.
Nothing has changes, so will somebody seize the chance to make it 221 against on the next vote?
Well if you’ve ordered from
Non-EUoutside the EU, and not from anywhere the EU has a trade deal with, it shouldn’t be any different.
Presumably come the glorious day we will not have to pay VAT as it’s an eu tax? (In theory there should be no german vat as it will be an export outside the eu and zero rateable, who knows what the uk will charge)
Groundhog May has no solutions
IDS was just on R4, he has a solution, it involves lots of experts apparently.
No actual detail on how his mystery technical border solution to do away with the backstop, presumably he brings the same skills he used to bring us the wildly successful, underbudget & on- deadline, Universal Credit....
I'm sure any overpaid tax will be reclaimable in the end. You know after the UK's outstanding balance has been cleared.
IDS was just on R4, he has a solution, it involves lots of experts apparently.
I wish they would make up their minds. I thought we were supposed to be sick of experts.
Steve Barclay on R4 "...no-one wants a no brexit..."
John humphries <stays silent>
If you wanted an effective solution delivered to a seemingly intractable problem, in a short timeframe, IDS would be the first port of call
Well... maybe the second, if Chris Grayling was busy
Out of interest, if I order something from Germany now, and it’s delivered after 29/3, will I have to pay VAT/import duty when it’s delivered?
this is off www.gov.uk
VAT on goods entering the UK as parcels sent by overseas businesses
If the UK leaves the EU without an agreement, VAT will be payable on goods entering the UK as parcels sent by overseas businesses.
The government set out in the Customs Bill White Paper (published October 2017) that Low Value Consignment Relief (LVCR) will not be extended to goods entering the UK from the EU. This note confirms that if the UK leaves the EU without an agreement then LVCR will no longer apply to any parcels arriving in the UK, this aligns the UK with the global direction of travel on LVCR. This means that all goods entering the UK as parcels sent by overseas businesses will be liable for VAT (unless they are already relieved from VAT under domestic rules, for example zero-rated children’s clothing).
For parcels valued up to and including £135, a technology-based solution will allow VAT to be collected from the overseas business selling the goods into the UK. Overseas businesses will charge VAT at the point of purchase and will be expected to register with an HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) digital service and account for VAT due.
What could possibly go wrong?
Obviously, no1 will be EU retailers introducing a £136 minimum order value for UK buyers. :-/
Cabinet meeting this morning. I wonder if they've got IDS in to do a powerpoint presentation about his groundbreaking solutions to international border control?
Slide 1
Hmm this stuff isn't embedding, again.
For parcels valued up to and including £135, a technology-based solution will allow VAT to be collected from the overseas business selling the goods into the UK. Overseas businesses will charge VAT at the point of purchase and will be expected to register with an HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) digital service and account for VAT due.
So if they don't and they write £2.50 as the value of the goods, how will HMRC know, without opening and valuing every single package?
I thought we were supposed to be sick of experts.
How to identify an "expert" in these new halcyon Victorian rivival days…
https://twitter.com/nicovel0/status/1087647984018436097?s=21
without opening and valuing every single package?
They'll only open those not correctly pre-declared. Remember, there is a solution to all these problems we're electing to introduce… it's just a matter of cost, time and copious bureaucracy…
Nice, what happens when say 95% of all parcels aren't correctly pre-declared?
I suppose we'll need one or two more customs employees.
so what overseas retailer is going to register for this scheme? Not a single one I bet.
Nice, what happens when say 95% of all parcels aren’t correctly pre-declared?
Everything will cost more, take longer to arrive, and generally be a pain in the arse.
How to identify an “expert” in these new halcyon Victorian rivival days…
Easy. If I've had enough of them, then they must be an expert. I've had enough of JRM. Overplayed his modest hand. Now sounds out of touch.
Everything will cost more, take longer to arrive, and generally be a pain in the arse.
Hurray! We really are going back to the 1950's
We'll make a fortune as a 'Ye Olde Worlde' theme park. Come to England, we're got scones! And smallpox!
It's interesting to see the coup occuring in parliament
It should be settled by duel at dawn
Brexit3r with one pistol remainder with the other whoever dies is not the winner
Nice, what happens when say 95% of all parcels aren’t correctly pre-declared
People will be so poor the parcels will number in the tens....it won't be an issue for the non immigrant workers to sort those
If any good comes of this (and thats a very big if) it will be the end of our archaic, tribal two-party system. Its just not fit for purpose. Seems even our MPs might be coming to realise this.
The extreme Brexiteer tail of the ERG are wagging the Tory dog, and the Labour party has a 'leadership', headed by a Brexiteer who's overwhelmingly Pro-EU MP's think is an incompetent dinasaur
Is it any wonder its such a shambles?
….it won’t be an issue for the non immigrant workers to sort those
If you can find some non-immigrants who want to do the job.
@binners, I agree with your appraisal but I'm not convinced this will cause change.
Nice, what happens when say 95% of all parcels aren’t correctly pre-declared?
Well it is all foreign stuff anyway, so we don't need it in post-Brexit-land. We will have our own home-made stuff, fashioned from sticks, or whatever.
@slowoldman Its difficult to see how the Tory party can continue in its present form, whatever happens.
Personally I think that if we get anything other than the most extreme 'no deal' (which, depressingly, I'm not confident about) then the ERG lot must surely break away to join Farages latest proposed party of backward-gazing racists.
The Labour Party just need shut of Corbyn
If any good comes of this (and thats a very big if) it will be the end of our archaic, tribal two-party system.
The only way that could happen is if a new party grabbed MPs from both Conservative and Labour. If, say the ERG were to splinter from the Tories then it's unlikely the ERG would get enough seats to govern but they would likely take enough away from the remaining Tories to mean they are far less likely to hold a majority, and the split ERG/Tory vote means Labour may pick up a few more seats, bolstering their chance of forming government. So if either side splits it hands a massive benefit to their opposition, who would then stick together despite their differencs.
All that will happen is that the two main parties will continue to shift… and lose key people and supporters (and gain new ones). There will be no "splits" or new movement of any significance. Our system will keep the Red v Blue battle central to how our country is run… all that will happen is that the policies supported under those banners will continue to change.
As I see it, the big problem with politics in this country is that the vast majority of the electorate vote for who they've always voted for irrespective of policies or, y'know, actual thought. The Lib Dems could have a policy of abolishing taxation and a free solid gold house for every family and they'd still win about six seats. Something something tuition fees something.
The only way we're going to get any real change is to burn both Labour and Conservative and start again with different parties with different names.
Never going to happen.
The only way we’re going to get any real change is to burn the houses of parliament to the ground with everyone in it and start again with different parties with different names.
FTFY
It should happen but it won't....
The lessons are there from when the SDP formed
If either the Tory party or the Labour party splits first, then the other one gets to clean up and potentially stay in power for decades.
Both parties know this and hence the mess they and therefore we are in.
Nice, what happens when say 95% of all parcels aren’t correctly pre-declared?
I suppose we’ll need one or two more customs employees.
Of course not because..........'technology'.
Or a technology-based solution.
Or unicorns.
Look, will you stop being unpatriotic.........
our archaic, tribal two-party system
Don't be silly. We don't have a two party system, do we?
Until recently we had 30-40 Lib Dems, now we have 35 SNP, and don't forget the 10 DUP who are propping up the government. They do make a difference especially when there's a narrow gap between the biggest parties; and they make a huge difference to the results at GE time because of how votes get distributed.
The US really has a two party system in that there are two parties.
Well Brexit is only really happening because of Cameron's desire to head off a Tory split... The percieved threat from UKIP and general Euro-scepticism within the Conservative party led him to do the deal, and promise a referendum in order to secure "unity" and support at his last election.
Has it been successful? Hmmm,
I going to go out on a limb here and say the divisions within the Tories look deeper than ever, and from the outside looking in JRM and the ERG are not just a tail wagging the party on Brexit, I could well see them trying to line their candidate up for leadership once May goes?
As for a Labour split?
There's still a disjoint on Brexit between JC and seemingly the majority of his party, but then again there seems to be a disjoint between the party and traditional Labour supporting members of the public. They were as shocked by the referendum outcome as Cameron's lot... The assumption two years and a bit ago had been that Euro-scepticism was a "Tory problem" and the vast majority of the left were "pro-EU" by default. The vote seemed to challenge that, and I'm not sure Labour have really done much to address that disconnect with their voters...
The real question is what happens once Brexit is finally done?
Obviously it's hoovered up all the parlimentary and media attention for the last two years, but once it ceases to be the No. 1 priority for everyone and we get back to "Normal Business", how do the respective parties align both internally and with the elecorate?
Ultimately I think the electorate will want some sort of "Stability" following Brexit and the party that can appear the most stable (Wrangle their dissidents in-line best) and give the impression of unity will have the best shot at a win.
The coming GE is going to be a nasty one, with both main parties trying to paint an unpleasant picture of one another and now the magic of targeted social media messaging is out of the bag I'd just delete your FB and Twitter accounts to avoid it...
If either the Tory party or the Labour party splits first, then the other one gets to clean up and potentially stay in power for decades.
Exactly, it is broken but those who could fix it will be the last people who actually would try to.
A good start would be a new debating chamber that isn't binary. The current one is a "one of London's most visited museums" of the future.
The real question is what happens once Brexit is finally done?
Obviously it’s hoovered up all the parlimentary and media attention for the last two years, but once it ceases to be the No. 1 priority for everyone and we get back to “Normal Business”, how do the respective parties align both internally and with the elecorate?
Don't hold your breath, whatever you do.
I reckon this has broken our political system so thoroughly and irreperably that theres no end in sight to this shitstorm. Whatever happens on March 29th is meraly the end of act 1. There will be no resolution. Thats pretty obvious
What I would do is put David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage, Aaron Banks, and Michael Gove on a raised platform on the back of a flat-bed truck and drive them slowly round the countries town centres for people to throw rotting fruit and veg, wet fish, bottles, steak knives and poo at, until this whole mess is cleared up
Can I add Alan Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn and Jack Straw's son to that list please. We can't ignore quite how outgunned the non-government element of the Remain campaign was. I used to be a big fan of Alan Johnson, but he was useless in his role during the campaign. I have no idea why Staw jr got such a key role. And as for absentyism Corbyn…
By all means. How did I forget arch-Brexiteer Corbyn? Consider them added.
Have a decaying halibut to launch at them...
cookeaa
The real question is what happens once Brexit is finally done?
Obviously it’s hoovered up all the parlimentary and media attention for the last two years, but once it ceases to be the No. 1 priority for everyone and we get back to “Normal Business”, how do the respective parties align both internally and with the elecorate?
Let's not forget this is just the start of Brexit, the easy part we were told.
After we leave we have to negotiate trading terms with the EU and other countries.
"Brexit" will be number one on the news for another 5 years I would imagine and be dictating politics too....
Its proving very handy at knocking everything else off the font pages too. This one caught my eye yesterday, tucked away on about page 14 of the Guardian
Plan to redirect inner-city funds to Tory shires 'a stitch-up’
Ministers have been accused of a “stitch-up” over proposals to redraw the funding formula for councils in a way critics say will redirect scarce cash from deprived inner cities to affluent Conservative-voting shires.
The proposed changes – which include the recommendation that grant allocations should no longer be weighted to reflect the higher costs of poverty and deprivation – come amid increasing concern over the sustainability of local authority finances.
just another one of the endless joys of living in Tory Brexit Britain!
The real question is what happens once Brexit is finally done?
Obviously it’s hoovered up all the parlimentary and media attention for the last two years, but once it ceases to be the No. 1 priority for everyone and we get back to “Normal Business”, how do the respective parties align both internally and with the elecorate?
the problem is that weve got 2 years of transition, which means another 2 years of arguing about what we transtion to
followed by years of delay as with all big government infrastructure/IT projects there is the inevitible delay (Universal Credit is 11 years & counting)
plus years of trade negotiations with the EU & ROW, punctuated somewhere by a general election.......
Camerons famous leaflet predicted 10 years to negotiate a deal, he got something right!
but once it ceases to be the No. 1 priority for everyone and we get back to “Normal Business”
You are in for a real shock… this has been turned into a "burn it all down and rebuild" agenda now, by switch and bait politicans. We don't even have an agreed UK plan about how we're going to reframe our relationship with Europe yet, never mind RoW. Everything needs redoing once we're out… decades worth of rebuilding and reframing international relationships and key industries.
Goodbye P&O.
Goodbye Sony.
These loses will be so frequent as not to be newsworthy soon.
The Lib Dems could have a policy of abolishing taxation and a free solid gold house for every family and they’d still win about six seats. Something something tuition fees something.
It didn't occur to me at the time but the LibDems got nicely stitched up in order to ensure they didn't cause a future threat to the Tories - same as they have done to UKIP by promising a referendum on the EU.
I really would love to see a major upheaval in UK politics but despite all the infighting in the HoP at the moment I can't see it happening.
Goodbye P&O.
Goodbye Sony.These loses will be so frequent as not to be newsworthy soon.
It's all project fear, we have a new ferry company to replace P&O & we don't need Sony, we can make our own electrical goods.
There are many uncertainties, but one thing is for sure - this whole charade does not end in March. Just keep your head down and make sure you and your family are as sheltered from the fall out as possible.