Forum menu
They’re not stupid they’re just already live the reality your worried brexit will bring.
Wrong, I’m afraid. Knock another ten percent off, then they’ll be living it.
And before anyone says ninety percent of nothing is still nothing, people who have ‘nothing’ in the main actually do still get ‘something’. In many cases it is still not enough (genuinely), but their standard of living and prospects will still likely take a hit.
Brexit is not ‘sticking it to the man’.
They see limited or no benefit, they live in areas which already have high unemployment, poor education, no social mobility and so on. They’re not stupid they’re just already live the reality your worried brexit will bring.
And I’d like to take issue with that from a different angle as well. I’m pretty sure that we don’t have nearly 17m people of working age who are unemployed and willing to torch everything to start again.
Your generalisations are just as easy to pick holes in as mine.
It would have been interesting if, prior to the referendum, people who were going to vote ‘Leave’ were told that they and they alone could keep any benefit of Brexit (divided up equally amongst them), but they would also have to saddle any cost (again divided up equally), what would they want to do? No deferment allowed - would have to work for nothing until debt ‘paid’.
The trouble with all this frothing about unicorns, cake and eat it etc is that it comes from the belief that brexit isn’t possible and should be reversed.
No it's not the belief that Brexit isn't possible, it is. It's that Brexit is stupid.
I’m not going to argue with that as I pretty much agree. However this is also in complete denial of the fact that the people have voted and it needs to be enacted.
No that's nonsense. The referendum was no better than an opinion poll, canvassing the opinions of people who by and large had no idea of the topic.
The referendum was no better than an opinion poll, canvassing the opinions of people who by and large had no idea of the topic.
Yes, but a huge number of people don't agree with that.
I’d rather we remain, but if the process was a sound one, I’d accept the wishes of ‘the people’. This process so far has not been sound…
I think it's more important that the result of the "sound process" demonstrates that it makes sense to leave the EU. If that proof was forthcoming maybe I would change my mind, though it would take more than pure economics to do that.
They see limited or no benefit, they live in areas which already have high unemployment, poor education, no social mobility and so on. They’re not stupid they’re just already live the reality your worried brexit will bring.
Absolutely this. I've had quite a few encounters with working class brexiters and have been told in no uncertain terms that they're sick of being lectured by middle class w*nkers who are more worried about their house prices than the employment prospects of the working class. Do we really think they're bothered that our pampered kids won't be able to do seasonaire jobs in French ski resorts? Or that it's going to be more difficult for some of us to retire to a spanish beach? Of course they don't. And they couldn't care less about import tariffs, the loss of passporting rights to the city of London, the border with Ireland or any of the other distant and irrelevant things that have very little impact on them. I have no idea how this is all going to pan out, and whether it will be as bad as every assumes it will be, but I'm pretty sure that if we carry on patronising and ignoring the people who voted for brexit, there'll much worse things down the line.
Yes, but a huge number of people don’t agree with that.
That's cool. If they all agree on what we should do now as a country, we can crack on with it.
Oh, but if they're "middle class w*nkers", then let's just ignore them and move on.
That's the issue with democracy - you can only do what the electorate will let you do...
Time to ask them then…
Not the "middle class w*nkers" though… let's check people's shoes when they turn up to vote. Anyone without holes in their soles gets turned away. Unless they inherited a house with wings from their parents, or spouses' parents. We should listen to toffs and proper workers only from now.
That's what I've been saying all along.
I presume you mean "ask them"… I'm increasingly thinking that the clock has been run down and killed that option. 71 days. The window to ask for A50 delay for a referendum is about to slam shut, if it hasn't already. The con is nearly complete.
A50 needs revoking, or we’re on the way out, and we’re manifestly not ready. It'll soon be the only option the UK has.
A50 needs revoking, or we’re on the way out
Of course we're on the way out, that is what people voted for or have you only just realised that?
People voted to Leave, we got that. It's people who did vote Leave who are most up in arms about how we leave. When we Leave in the wrong way (as they see it), with the wrong results, do you think they'll be thanking those that carry it out?
Dianne Abbott is on QT. I expect to be fully reassured by a clear and coherent explanation of Labours position expressed in a reasoned and articulate manner
Of course we’re on the way out, that is what people voted for or have you only just realised that?
What makes you think the people (badly or totally uniformed) should have the final say?
A50 needs revoking, or we’re on the way out, and we’re manifestly not ready. It’ll soon be the only option the UK has.
May is clearly running down the clock so it's her deal or nothing. Can she force that?
We're pretty close to even her deal being unachievable in the time left, even if she could build support for it. Even that would need a new exit date. Rather than beg for an extension… we should take control of the timetable and unilaterally revoke A50.
True but as we are able to look at more than one think at once we can look at both. It’s possible to address both topics.
The fact that May has at least spoken to most party leaders except Corbyn I feel is further making him look like an idiot.
It’s just been pointed out on QT that it’s a bit rich Corbyn saying that no deal should be taken off the table when he’d three line whipped his MPs to vote for putting it very much on the table in the first place, against most of their wishes.
And now that stupid beardy **** has just made me agree with Isabel Oakeshott
I feel violated
The fact that May has at least spoken to most party leaders except Corbyn I feel is further making him look like an idiot.
TBH, why is no deal still there, why won't she rule it out? Oh yeah because she will loose her next no confidence vote to be replaced by a lunatic from the ERG
Anyone watching QT - massive cheers for no deal - be afraid
Anyone watching QT – massive cheers for no deal – be afraid
That's because opinion is hardening against incompetent MPs and government. The referendum was a revolt against the political class and the people they mostly represent. Hardly a surprise that the same people now are revolting again. And some on here want wonder why the labour party won't campaign to reverse the referendum result.
TBH, why is no deal still there, why won’t she rule it out? Oh yeah because she will loose her next no confidence vote to be replaced by a lunatic from the ERG
She will not lose ANY no confidence vote. She could be a serial baby killer for all the ERG care as long as she is not a Marxist.
I am not saying Corbyn has to alter his opinions on whether a no deal should be taken of the table, but at least sitting in the same room to discuss this and other issues is politically symbolic, rather than pass notes across the desk.
Anyone watching QT – massive cheers for no deal – be afraid
QT aims to pick a very balance/split audience on issues, don't think it's overly representative of the population as a whole, some of the areas near there were very high leave vote % in the referendum.
I am not saying Corbyn has to alter his opinions on whether a no deal should be taken of the table, but at least sitting in the same room to discuss this and other issues is politically symbolic, rather than pass notes across the desk.
More than 1 way to do something, now the PM has to defend why she is keeping No Deal as an option despite saying it's suicide.
**
Edit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46910535
Reserve military officers could be called up for a year of service as part of government plans for a no-deal Brexit.
It comes after the defence secretary said 3,500 troops were "held at readiness" to help if the UK crashes out of the EU.
The official call-up order was made in a ministerial statement on Thursday.
****
Anyway chances of her putting anything different to parliament on the next hearing? 5%? Chances of her taking any kind of notice of JC 2%?
This whole thing at the moment is posturing and symbolism.
Which is exactly why somebody has decided to go with blackmailing the speaker
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46913477
Such is the anger with the Speaker at senior levels of government, it has been suggested he could be blocked from getting a peerage when he retires.
Ministers are furious at what they see as John Bercow's "bias" during Commons debates on Brexit.
The move would break a tradition dating back 230 years, that former Commons speakers are automatically offered a seat in the House of Lords.
A Cabinet source said: "It's a good job peerage nominations are in our gift.
"I'm sure we'll be thinking carefully about which individuals we would choose to elevate to the House of Lords."
The source told me: "I can't imagine we would look favourably on those who've cheated centuries of procedure."
Yeah I know I grew up in one.
Poor old Diane should have been put out to grass a while back!
In the present Jezza inner sanctum (those who don’t think he’s a useless idiot - the minority) she’s what passes for a political heavyweight.
She’s not even a half-wit! A quarter-wit? An eighth-wit? Corbyn wants to be prime minister but how could anyone trust the judgment of someone who thinks she should be Home Secretary?
I wouldn’t let her run at a stand at a car boot sale, never mind the countries legal system
Ladies and gentlemen.... the Labour Party.... courtesy of North London
She's a smart cookie, but poor at defending policy on Tv/radio (even when policy makes sense).
A smart cookie. Hmmmmmm....
She’s a total ****-wit! She’s the yin to Andrea Leadsoms yang
If she ever got in a position of power (hardly likely) she’d make Chris Grayling look like a towering intellectual giant and a picture of Germanic efficiency
Whenever I see Diane Abbott on tv I picture Malcolm Tucker screaming. Why do they still allow her to go on tv?
I loved the comment from the guy in the audience "the only thing that scares me more than brexit is the thought of Diane Abbott as home secretary."
Most of us are equally terrified of that prospect
She stands as the elephant in the room on opinion on Jezzas judgement
It’s right up there with these appointments...
Corbyn has about 40 MPs left who haven’t previously openly declared that he’s an idiot ( they’re right, obvs) so Dianne is about as good as it likely to get*
Vote Labour!
* insert own scraping of the bottom of the barrel reference here
athgray
The fact that May has at least spoken to most party leaders except Corbyn I feel is further making him look like an idiot.
Really? Her "talks" would have been a joke even if she'd tried to convince the person who could possibly have the appetite and the ability to change the result, rather than avoiding him. Instead, she went to people who'd already made their demands, and told them she was seeking a compromise but they couldn't have any of the things that they wanted. The only difference is that Corbyn didn't get an hour of his day wasted.
"dangeourbrain
Subscriber
I think you forget that for a great many people on the otherside of the argument brexit, any brexit, is a good brexit."
But not a majority. There's a reason the Leave campaign chose to sell their wares with lies, they knew better than anyone that if they told the truth for one day their campaign would fall apart.
It's not enough to get loads of brexiteers to agree on one particular brexit- you have to get damn nearly all of them to agree, or their majority becomes a minority.
Absolutely this. I’ve had quite a few encounters with working class brexiters and have been told in no uncertain terms that they’re sick of being lectured by middle class w*nkers who are more worried about their house prices than the employment prospects of the working class. Do we really think they’re bothered that our pampered kids won’t be able to do seasonaire jobs in French ski resorts? Or that it’s going to be more difficult for some of us to retire to a spanish beach? Of course they don’t. And they couldn’t care less about import tariffs, the loss of passporting rights to the city of London, the border with Ireland or any of the other distant and irrelevant things that have very little impact on them. I have no idea how this is all going to pan out, and whether it will be as bad as every assumes it will be, but I’m pretty sure that if we carry on patronising and ignoring the people who voted for brexit, there’ll much worse things down the line.
None of it will be solved by leaving the EU.
Anyone who still fails to understand the constraints on Corbyn from internal labour party politics needs to have a look at the guardian online
Headline piece that if he comes out for a second referendum half the front bench will resign
Three labour supporting commentators with three contradictory pieces. Must support second ref, must not support second ref, only leave will solve things
It's fine… he can keep triangulating, and the result of that will be Brexit, which, purely coincidental, is what he spent most of his political life espousing.
Doesn’t look like the hive mind of STW have any solutions either....we is truly f....d!
Solutions have been posted for hundreds of pages. They just don't fit it with the world view of those leading our two biggest parties, that is all.
Anyone got a non-FT link to the news that EU trade deals with RoW can't/won't be rolled over when we leave, after all (as we said)? Time to start properly bricking it Britain.
Just sign up you get 10 free a month
Doesn’t look like the hive mind of STW have any solutions either….we is truly f….d!
I propose to have the softest Brexit possible: membership of the customs union and (possibly) the single market, with all that entails, including freedom of movement.
Then a commitment to a referendum in the next parliament on whether we leave this setup, maintain it or apply to rejoin as a full member.
Something along these lines is what Labour should be campaigning for: it delivers a Brexit of some sort, a second referendum later and allows us to fully explore and prepare for a full exit.
Just sign up you get 10 free a month
I have access. Posting links to pay walled pages doesn't go down well.
The referendum was a revolt against the political class
So we "take back control" and put it in THEIR hands? Brilliant strategy there.
Solutions have been posted for hundreds of pages. They just don’t fit it with the world view of those leading our two biggest parties, that is all.
They're not solutions - they're the opinions of a forum without the constraints of damaging the electorate one way or another.
I posted a couple of days ago...
What is everyone’s preferred way forward then?
Igoring issued of actual acheivability for the momemt, I see several broad options
(1) Abandon Bexit – withdraw A50 – back as we were?
(2) 2nd ref with two (in or a deal variant) or 3 options (in, deal, no deal) and some sort of preference voting
(3) supersoft brexit – customs union, possible EEA and free movement (Norway plus plus)
(4). Medium brexit – basically tweaked May’s deal or similar
(5) No deal
I most like 1 but it's politically impossible. I think 2 although initially attractive would still lead to Bexit, possibly no deal Brexit and would be divisive in the country. So basically we are left with 3 as least worst.
they’re the opinions of a forum without the constraints of damaging the electorate one way or another.
Oh, you mean solutions that can be accepted by self serving politicans and don't ignore the fact that more than half the country don't want the disturbance of a hard Brexit to hit in March?
I'm going to rank those repeated above by @olddog … 1,3,2,5,4 … personal preference only … but still think there is a better way…
…revoke A50 immediately, plan to leave without a transition, put that plan to the public in a referendum, then trigger A50 again if plan accepted, but only once the planning shows that there's less than two years left in the preparations to Leave.
Or there is @nerd's "Soft Brexit for now" on the previous page. Lots of ways out of the current mess… but May & Corbyn are two busy pretending to be iron ladies.
So we “take back control” and put it in THEIR hands? Brilliant strategy there.
not sure working class revolts tend to have a strategy
Corbyn not talking to May is frustrating- not because it would do any good in good in moving her position but because the focus is on his inflexibility not hers.
It could easily have been him looking the peacemaker on TV this morning saying - he spoke to her, made the case for no no-deal "which everyone wants" and she is not moving her position.
Political naivety
Soft Bexit for now is an interesting option, that might actually give May the backdoor she needs to save face. This could be with or without a future second ref.
What is the penalties of breaking the good Friday agreement under a hard Brexit?
I know the consequence of breaking it - a potential rise up of the Irish troubles, but I'm struggling to get my head around the breaking of an international treaty bit.
Would it just be a subtle hardening of resolve against the UK (ideal when you're trying to negotiate trade deals) Or would it be a bit firmer than that? ie political or economic sanctions?
If the DUP didn't have the government by the balls, I reckon Westminster would've thrown the GFA under the bus a year ago.
Corbyn not talking to May is frustrating- not because it would do any good in good in moving her position but because the focus is on his inflexibility not hers.
Agree. I am with Corbyn on what he stands for and the policies he has brought back to the Labour party but he is very bad at predicting consequences of actions, how they could be spun etc,. As soon as May invited him to talk he should have bitten her hand off publicly, while still making sure the rule out No Deal point was strongly made.
Have the meeting with her that night and then do a media onslaught on what you have talked about, asked for etc,. and it is then 100% back with May.
If the DUP didn’t have the government by the balls, I reckon Westminster would’ve thrown the GFA under the bus a year ago.
I've little respect for our current government but I'm fairly confident of their ability to be self serving and ditching the GFA wouldn't be anything like. Many of them will have been or will have friends who were at Brighton and will remember well enough what "the troubles" really looked like rather than just on TV.
I honestly don't think the GFA is under threat from our side of this, and at the risk of parroting, who is actually going to put a hard (or any other sort) of border in place, I honestly can't see it being Westminster, if only for the simple reason we've got no money and will have even less come April.
What is the penalties of breaking the good Friday agreement under a hard Brexit?
The betrayal of a generation or more of people who suffered with terrorism and violence for decades. wholly appropriate International rebuke from the very people we would seek to make trade deals with in our future. Mistrust, and a blow to our diplomatic standing for at least 50 years or more?
Off the top of my head...
who is actually going to put a hard (or any other sort) of border in place, I honestly can’t see it being Westminster, if only for the simple reason we’ve got no money and will have even less come April.
The trouble is, under WTO rules we must treat all trading partners fairly. While the UK and the EU will have no appetite to enforce a hard border, not doing so just allows any other nation to play havoc with our and the EU's international trade by making complaints.
And lets be honest, it will take less than a second for Russia to object and have both the UK's and EU's WTO schedules rejected.
And even if it isn't Russia, our so called friends from the US, Australia, Canada, India etc will at least use it as leverage to pick over the carcass of the UK economy.
Once the disruption in the EU/EEA has played out, those that will be will benefiting from it will be targeting the WTO and UN in the same way, for the same reasons, with the same effect. Get ready for that.
Why do we need the WTO I thought WE were making the rules now.
I most like 1 but it’s politically impossible.
I'm not so sure. I think (hope!) that if someone tabled a motion to revoke A50, versus the options of May's deal or No deal, the house would pass it. It would require Labour & Tory MPs to not be whipped, and a combination of "respect my constituents" plus "May ruined your dream" rhetoric, but I reckon there could be a majority in the HoC.
The ramifications would not be great in terms of confidence in the government (and potential resurgence in the right, inc UKIP), but at this point I think that's arguably better than a No-deal exit.
(and potential resurgence in the right, inc UKIP)
This will happen if we have "not real Brexit" as well… never forget that.
On a sort of aside i do think the free movement of people thing is a huge red herring. It's very useful for those of us on the remain side to think that everyone in the leave camp is a racist (some, especially the very vocal, are of course but far from all).
If you look at where the main leave votes were these aren't areas with huge problems with immigration, quite the opposite, they're areas where people migrate from if they can, no-one moves there becuase there's no work. Those who do manage to escape to uni and the like never come back because to somewhere that the local chippy is considered a career prospect. They're areas where the industry has been gutted and moved wholesale to Europe/RoW because free movement of goods, no tarrifs and no duties has made it cheaper to produce and import steel from Ruhr than Sheffield or coal in Czech Republic than co. Durham and so on. There's a reason Wales voted out and it's not becuase they don't like brown people, it's becuase despite stuffing loads of money into BPW (an expensive playground for middle-class w****s riding bikes that cost as much as a few years mortgage on a house in Merthyr did 10 years ago) there's nothing left off what it was outside of a few big cities. M62 corridor is the same, Notts, Derbyshire, North Hants, Essex and so on.
Getting rid of free moment of (unskilled) people doesn't fix this. To the extent there's resentment of foreigners (and it's really just out of towers in general in my experience) it's that when good jobs do rarely come up local folk can't get them because there's no real training opportunity for advancement, no real chance of proper further or higher education because they simply can't afford to be there, (Tuition fees are really an irrelevance on that front when you can't muster the basic travel or living costs any how.) so those jobs go to outsiders and the cycle continues.
There's a lot of people who i think really see all these problems as opportunities, if you can't bring in steel cheaply anymore, maybe they'll restart the plant in redcarr and so on.
The trouble is, under WTO rules we must treat all trading partners fairly. While the UK and the EU will have no appetite to enforce a hard border, not doing so just allows any other nation to play havoc with our and the EU’s international trade by making complaints.
entirely true but I'm really sure how you would form a complaint that our WTO schedule is unfair when it's probably equal between say Russia and Europe where in goods are moved via Dublin Liverpool or in deed Dublin Belfast but, due to previously agreed international treaty (which i believe takes legal precedence) the Dublin Belfast route has to be done on trust. I will say though this is way way out of my area of expertise (so i guess i could be a UK brexit negotiator then?)
The ramifications would not be great in terms of confidence in the government (and potential resurgence in the right, inc UKIP), but at this point I think that’s arguably better than a No-deal exit.
Be careful what you wish for, i think you'd more likely be seeing [s]Peter from family guy[/s] Nick Griffin waddling back on stage to rapturous applause than Nige
On a sort of aside i do think the free movement of people thing is a huge red herring.
Yes. But you need to persuade May & Corbyn of this. They both claim that the ending of "Freedom of Movement" is the will of the people, as expressed in 2016. All the Leave voters I know say otherwise, but our leaders stick firmly to that line. So tell them. If one, or even better both, of them decide to change their mind on this, everything changes… it's the biggest block to any form of Leaving that keeps the UK in one piece and trade with the rest of Europe "frictionless".
entirely true but I’m really sure how you would form a complaint that our WTO schedule is unfair
It isn't whether the schedule is unfair, it is whether the enforcement or monitoring of the schedule is fair. It goods crossing a border are not monitored, then quite clearly any and all other countries could say, we want the same treatment or you are not meeting your obligations under the agreements you have made.
If... we end up with no deal and walk away, what does that say about our trustworthiness as a country that sticks to it's commitments.
What third countries will trust us to stick to future agreements?
If you look at where the main leave votes were these aren’t areas with huge problems with immigration, quite the opposite, they’re areas where people migrate from if they can, no-one moves there becuase there’s no work. Those who do manage to escape to uni and the like never come back
Bigotry is a part of this though. No-one resents white British people moving around the country, as you mention, however if these people have a funny accent or a different skin colour, then suddenly they are easy to label as 'other'.
I used to work in London. But I'm not from London. Do you think anyone would have resented me doing that?
Ok, this may well not be representative.... but every person I know that voted Leave primarily did it offer immigration. Some VERY vocal over why, some more a nudge and a wink.
It's a big "issue" in some peoples minds around here anyway. Which I'm actually very sad about as it has changed my mind about quite a few people I thought I knew pretty well.
Bigotry is a part of this though. No-one resents white British people moving around the country...
This really really isn't true. A lot of places don't like a funny accent, whether that's from bognor or Bangladesh. I'm about as British looking as you could want to be and my "Southern" accent (despite being Yorkshire born n bred) got me a lot of not welcome here's when I lived in Hull. Still does in plenty of places.
I used to work in London. But I’m not from London. Do you think anyone would have resented me doing that?
In London? No very few would mind but for the most part they'd not really care if your accent and skin colour was more Mumbai than Munro either. On the other hand try Rotherham or Rochdale, Margate or Morecambe and see how keen they are on you not being local. Heck want proof it's not about being an immigrant go to some parts of Bradford.
There are a lot of places still that make Royston Vasey look welcoming of outsiders.
It’s a big “issue” in some peoples minds around here anyway
Mind if i ask in broad terms where that is? Leaver constituency or remainer?
(Fwiw, in my experience the actual racism amongst leavers, obvious edl supporting outliers etc aside, seems to be directly proportional to peoples standard of living and education which is truly depressing.)
What dangeourbrain said, it's not about being foreign, it's about being different from what ever "local" is, in any way.
It's hard to do that in London, as it's a proper big-city melting pot. Unless you got to one of the proper sink estates, then see how quickly you get singled out for being "different"...and not on the grounds of your skin colour or accent.
Bigotry is a part of this though. No-one resents white British people moving around the country, as you mention, however if these people have a funny accent or a different skin colour, then suddenly they are easy to label as ‘other’.
I used to work in London. But I’m not from London. Do you think anyone would have resented me doing that?
Not true. I moved post-uni to the south coast from Scotland. Moved into a house with a 1 person from Cardiff and another from Edinburgh. We all had very good graduate levels jobs. First thing our manky neighbour said to me was a rant about "...coming down 'ere and taking our jobs".
We all had very good graduate levels jobs. First thing our manky neighbour said to me was a rant about “…coming down ‘ere and taking our jobs”.
I do wonder if the response would be the same if you'd moved to be a checkout assistant in Tesco. I've genuinely no idea but my perception is that it's not "all our jobs" so much as "all our good jobs"
Quick question if I can. Some of you talk of areas with people out of work.
Looking at the employment figures, how is that possible?
And on the subject of immigration.
I was an immigrant in the UK for 20 years, but was very rarely treated as such. Maybe because I am white and could speak English well.
Looking at the employment figures, how is that possible?
It was said a few years ago that that the unemployment figures were so low that they were in danger of exposing the lie.
If the DUP didn’t have the government by the balls, I reckon Westminster would’ve thrown the GFA DUP under the bus a year ago.
FTFY
Looking at the employment figures, how is that possible?
There are reasons various governments over the years have pushed more and more into longer optional and now compulsory education. That they count zero hours contracts (even if you're doing zero) as work.
Add to that areas with high employment vs low and it's suddenly quite easy to see how it looks like a low unemployment (4%, 1.4 million) figure when what it really means is 3 cities the size of Edinburgh officially out of work.
No idea on the validity of the following link but their data suggests 32.5 million in employment of some sort, 24 million in ft employment. That's a huge % that don't qualify as full time (roughly 25% of those in work don't have full time jobs)
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/full-time-employment
From ONS website - you count as employed doing one hour per week...
The number of people in employment in the UK is measured by the Labour Force Survey (LFS) and consists of people aged 16 and over who did one hour or more of paid work per week (as an employee or self-employed), those who had a job that they were temporarily away from, those on government-supported training and employment programmes, and those doing unpaid family work. Employment levels and rates are published each month in the labour market statistical bulletin.
So doing a few hours of insecure work on a zero hours contract counts as employed.
Interesting that none of the polling organisation are doing nationwide polls on what people would vote if we had a second referendum based on TM's deal. Maybe they have given up, seeing as before the last vote they were suggesting 51-49 in favour of remain!
Interesting that none of the polling organisation are doing nationwide polls on what people would vote if we had a second referendum
Maybe they just can't find any pollsters who can keep a straight face as they layout the options?
This really really isn’t true. A lot of places don’t like a funny accent, whether that’s from bognor or Bangladesh. I’m about as British looking as you could want to be and my “Southern” accent (despite being Yorkshire born n bred) got me a lot of not welcome here’s when I lived in Hull. Still does in plenty of places.
Honestly it does make a huge difference, my ex was Aussie, wandered around and worked all over the UK with no issues or hassles from people no real attitude, I was an immigrant in Oz never had a single problem, I knew people who had been there for 30+ years but looked differently who were treated differently all the time. I remember been sat in a pub while somebody ranted on about immigration and immigrants obviously thinking he was fine being surrounded by white folks, who at the time were about 70% from another country.
Actually just heard that a YouGov poll was released yesterday with 56% wanting to remain. Clearly you can take that with a pinch of salt, as a lot won't admit to voting leave at the moment.
The YouGov survey found that when excluding those who said they do not know or would not vote, 56 percent said they would choose to remain in the bloc if there was a new referendum, while 44 percent would choose to leave — a margin of 12 percentage points.
When including the responses of those who said they don't know or wouldn't vote, these figures dropped to 48 percent for Remain and 38 percent for Leave.
The poll was conducted a day after Theresa May's Brexit deal was rejected by MPs on Tuesday, and was commissioned by the People’s Vote campaign, which advocates for a second referendum.
Based on what we know, who commission the poll and past results, that probably makes it more like 53/47....still a bit close to call.