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Apparently he's off addressing far-right rallies in Germany now...
That can only go well 😕
If she was really bold she'd just go WTO
CEO of jaguar-land rover on the evening news last night saying that there 'must' be a transition period, there 'has to be' a transition period. dropping on to WTO would be a 'critical blow' to his business. the 'sums are easy to do - the cost of WTO rules easy to calculate'. a 'massive loss of jobs' if that happens.
another one of these 'backward looking CEOs'?
WTO would be bad for banks, their clients and the wider economy
Some protesters recently demanding a better deal for immigrants from India
I think brexies like the WTO idea because it's simple, just drop/minimise all the tarrifs, no obligations, but it's simplistic, not simple,
the world is way more complicated than Brexiters would like it to be.
Just when you think they can't stoop any lower - the Maybot is going to attempt to fix parliamentary process....
"the Conservatives have previously claimed five of the nine MPs on the committee, but officials have ruled they are entitled to four only, after their Commons majority was destroyed in June."
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-powers-grab-plans-parliamentary-system-fix-a7935276.html ]TORY POWER GRAB[/url]
brexies like talking about WTO because it lets them pretend that it's all about tariffs of a few percent on a handful of imported goods when actually there are far more important and difficult issues to sort out than that.
Like, what to do about the RoI/NI border, how to manage our nuclear industry and all related issues (medical isotopes being particularly important), flying planes, approving medicines, international banking, rights of current EU residents in UK and vice-versa, building the necessary infrastructure to manage the customs and immigration checks, and a host of other things. None of which are touched upon by WTO rules and tariffs, and none of which have been meaningfully addressed yet by the govt.
Incidentally a couple of ERC grant-holders known to me are now making plans to leave the UK. These are basically the most prestigious and valuable grants available to scientists (at least in their fields) and they'll take them with them - along with their research labs - when they go. And FWIW on a smaller scale I'm currently visiting a German lab and expecting to work more with them in the future. Also considering options for setting up an EU base in case it's advantageous for EU research funding (I've heard Estonia is quite attractive, I wouldn't have to actually be there physically). Elderly relatives are keeping us in the UK for now but that won't last for ever.
mrlebowski - Member
Just when you think they can't stoop any lower - the Maybot is going to attempt to fix parliamentary process...."the Conservatives have previously claimed five of the nine MPs on the committee, but officials have ruled they are entitled to four only, after their Commons majority was destroyed in June."
TORY POWER GRAB
That, while being couched as procedural, is quite a worrying attack on our democracy.
and none of which have been meaningfully addressed yet by the govt.
Which, given the time available are bluntly impossible. Which then comes back to what are the hard brexit, no transistioners trying to achieve?
That, while being couched as procedural, is quite a worrying attack on our democracy.
Its only taking back control and making sure the "right" people have taken back control.
Its hard not to be pessimistic in research at the moment.
Between Maybots attacks on foreign students, the uncertainty for EU staff, the costs & barriers put up in the immigration plans, the falling £ stretching budgets, EMA moving somewhere & the associated costs to pharma, potential loss of funding (big gaps in the govs white paper on that) all the uncertainty making it very difficult to plan for the future- as projects are planned many years in advance.
Im sure ther are some bright sides, but as a remoaniac Im struggling to see them
Hmmm. 'Xactly mrmo
It seems to me that they're much more committed to, and expending considerably more energy on subverting democracy than they are in addressing any serious issues arising (i.e.: the Irish Border) in any meaningful way.
God only knows what they're planning under the cover of all this? One things for sure. It won't be in the interests of 99% of the population
I expect we'll be hearing the term "but we had no option but to......." from ministers over the next few years, as they use their new executive powers to drive through legislation they wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance of getting through parliament
Never waste a good crisis! Which is what's on the horizon of this shitstorm
Which then comes back to what are the hard brexit, no transistioners trying to achieve?
ask Corbyn...
Corbyn is quite wisely keeping quiet, letting Starmer fill out the details of a soft Brexit & letting the Tories get on with the self-harm!
I think they are trying to achieve what the leave camaign said they would achieve
Leave the EU with a trade deal in place
Anyone wish to claim we are even trying to achieve this?After we Vote Leave, British businesses will trade freely with the EU
which is still up on their website
this idea we voted for Hard brexit is just more BS ;they did not even campaign for it .
Weird how people who wanted to Take Back Control to our sovereign parliament are so unfussed about taking power away from it eh.
binners - MemberIt seems to me that they're much more committed to, and expending considerably more energy on subverting democracy than they are in addressing any serious issues arising (i.e.: the Irish Border) in any meaningful way.
At my work, we're firm believers in not letting a good crisis go to waste, it's basically the only way you get anything done. But you're always aware that there's a line between making the most mileage out of a crisis, and actually creating one. These guys, not so much.
Meanwhile, lets wait for the apologists to appear & tell us that it's all about economic expediency/procedural changes....that we really shouldn't be worried about the lack of oversight on the single biggest overhaul of UK law since the Magna Carta....
At my work, we're firm believers in not letting a good crisis go to waste
And if you have the money, Brexit is a dream opportunity. Look at how the collapse of the USSR made a few incredibly rich for a case study.
It seems to me that they're much more committed to, and expending considerably more energy on subverting democracy than they are in addressing any serious issues arising (i.e.: the Irish Border) in any meaningful way.
An interesting perspective albeit one that seems somewhat detached for what is actually going on behind the headlines
I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law. But no surprise there...
You're sounding more and more like a leaver every day THM.I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law. But no surprise there...
Not Remainers problem to solve but I don't know any who object to the great repeal bill. The objection is entirely about the transfer of power from Parliament to Ministers.
I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law.
Well the current arrangement works quite well.....
Yep.
THM - Throwing away the checks and balances inherent in our parliamentary democracy to make Brexit a bit easier is a disgrace.
The same thing can be done but in line with normal democratic process.
I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law. But no surprise there...
Parliament, it's called taking back control.
Votes not committees
Indeed so how do you solve the problem....
I am neither a leaver nor a remoaner. I am merely someone who is interested in minimising the uncertainty and risks that are associated with honouring the democratic decision taken to end our memberships of the EU. I believe that Brexshit is going to happen, hence I am only interested in solutions not the problems. Have little time for moaners in any capacity.
So I find myself aggreeing both with Starmer (specifically in the clause 17 issue) AND Davis ("listen to those who offer improvements). In contrast the wild accusations in papers and ^ are merely greeted with a combination of 😯 and 😀
Quite a good combo when you need a break from finishing writing real recommendations on what to do next after Brexshit!! Almost finished....
erent in our parliamentary democracy to make Brexit a bit easier is a disgrace.
The same thing can be done but in line with normal democratic
Go on then......how?
iPad off now - look forward to answer in the train 😉
Indeed so how do you solve the problem
Exactly.
You cannot criticise the lack of a solution to an impossible problem.
You're like the project managers I see who ignore the techies telling them something is difficult, commit to short timescales then blame the developers when it's not done. Whose fault is it?
THM - by going through the normal committee process with committee members selected in the normal way.
Next.
I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law. But no surprise there...
I'd rather have a painful & fraught time overseeing EU law integration, rather than just let it be done on the quiet with no oversight at all..
Is that what you're happy to accept? No parliamentary consent on employment law? Food standards? Workers rights? Consumer rights? Environmental standards? F me, I could goon but hopefully you get the point.
Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.
You are beginning to sound more like a Brexiteer with every post!
If not a Brexiteer, an apologist.....
I struggle to think which is actually worse.
I have yet to hear a practical solution, from remoaners on how to handle the integration of EU law. But no surprise there...
The practical solution to brexit is to not ****ing do it.
There you go, it was easy. You're welcome.
If you or any other brexiteers has a half-decent alternative, I'm all ears. You've had well over a year since the referendum (and could even have thought about it before then) and so far....bupkiss.
Don't pretend it's my fault that you reject the simple obvious solution and demand someone else come up with an alternative that doesn't exist.
I am merely someone who is interested in minimising the uncertainty and risks that are associated with honouring the democratic decision taken to end our memberships of the EU
Was it democratic? Just because there was a vote is that all that defines democracy? We know that the FN was funded by Putin, strong questions about CA, about UKIP, even it seems about the Tory brexiteers and misuse of funds.
There are even questions on whether the Referendum was legal and could trigger A50. The European court is about to rule on another of May's pet projects, the data collection bill.
Start joining the dots, and it really doesn't look the motivation was democratic. I guess you believe that Putin is a democratically elected politician?
This "respect democracy at all costs" thing is stupid. Just because something was voted on does not mean it is the best course of action.
There is a bit more to good government than simply having votes.
as igm says, appoint members to the committee in the normal way, don't try and populate it in the government's favour. they were pulled back to 4 out of 9 due to their number in parliament, but the government want 5 so they can push through whatever they want with a majority in committee that does not reflect their majority in parliament.
as a solution, they could just publish it all, and take a series of votes a few months later on chunks of it at a time. that would give journos and those interested time to go over it all, and parliament a chance to debate anything that gets flagged up. effectively crowd-sourced research.
there's a solution. it's not like parliament has anything else to do, all other business is off the table for, god knows how long, until this mess is cleared up.
In contrast the wild accusations in papers and ^ are merely greeted with a combination of and
thatd be because Davis +co ar far more interested in proving to the UK(press) that they are negotiating well with the EU, than actually negotiating well with the EU.
The deal Davis signed up to was to be fully transparrent in negotioations, including regular briefings on our position (May was desperate to avoid this oversight) the UK gov has been enforcing embargos on the big papers until midnight on Saturday so they are released in time for the Sunday papers & tv shows.
Then theres this Hard Brexit support letter being published in the Sunday papers, just seems to be a deliberate attempt to undermine negotiations.
frustratingly the UK science position paper (not deemed worthy of an embargo) lists institutions we wish to continue collaborating with eg paying money into) colleagues at the European Bioinformatics Institute @ the Sanger are still in limbo about what happens post 2020, without a comitment to funding from the UK theres huge uncertainty, science is already a craphole of short term-contracts, this kind of dithering makes life very tough. The UK gov still wont talk actual figures, just assertions of intent. The Tories are terified ofeven suggesting an amount we will have to pay to the EU post brexit.
If the talks stall in October the damage just gets magnified as we move to 2019
If the talks stall in October the damage just gets magnified as we move to 2019
Which is exactly what they want..
Why the F are 40 odd hard line Euroscpetic MP's running the fing show??
"respect democracy at all costs"
My arse. This charade has nothing at all to do with democracy or the British people.
Anyway at least when we have isolated ourselves we'll still have nuclear weapons so we can form a pariah alliance with North Korea. I imagine they'll do business with anyone.
[img] 
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[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/07/europeans-british-dream-uk-immigration-future ]A really interesting, thoughtful piece by John Harris in today's Guardian[/url]
With all the talk of economics, we forget something far more important. What the hell does this say about us as a country? What message does it send to the world about this country? Nothing God, that's for sure. Utterly depressing! 😥
Agreed, the responses to the #lammyreport on Twitter are a stream of bigotry and ignorance
Im not sure that such racism wouldve be expressed to blatantly before the referendum and the endless demonisation of foreigners that we've seen ever since Farage picked up a fag and a pint for his first photoshoot.
will we get the 10Bn we are owed from the EU back now we don't owe them and they owe us?
@mickmcd - yes that's something we can take legal action over as it's our defined capital in the EIB, the EU can't sue us for the "Brexit Bill" as it has no legal basis (as per House of Lords analysis etc). The EU actually want to give us the EIB €10bn back as per their Brexit negotiating document just not now but in dribs and drabs over decades (?). IMO we are better off out pronto to avoid back door liabilities wrt the euro / eurozone debt
When do we commence carpet bombing Dresden Jammers?
To be honest, your posts remind me of what can be said about the attitude of most right wing free-market brexiteers
It's all about the money
You know the price of everything, and the value of nothing
Binners people voted to end freedom of movement, I think you'll find the vast majoriy of Leavers understand there will be some migration. It will be up to our government to decide, if in the future Comrade Corbyn if ever elected as PM decides it should be 1 million a year then so be it.
My company are looking at a bill of ~£1 million to ensure people keep getting medicines once your idiotic idols manage to drop us out of the eu with no Deal.
That depends on what tariffs are agreed/implemented, no ? Many dveloped countries already have zero tariffs for medicines / components. Not sure what costs you are estimating.
Kate Hoey had things spot on yesterday in her speech in Parliament and also in her interview to CNN
CNN: What do the EU want from the UK in these negotiations
Hoey: As much of our money as they can get