If remainers really want a change of government it's easy to achieve. Simply stop spending on anything not needed to stay alive. And when you buy stuff that's needed to stay alive buy EU where possible. The economic impact would be enough to bring down a government with a majority held up by an alliance with the DUP. It just needs someone with enough weight on Facebook, Twitter and so on to launch the campaign.
STW might be big enough to start the movement, start spreading the word folks.
STOP SPENDING TO STOP BREXIT
No no no. What they should really do is buy up all the aubergines. Just imagine the chaos.
Is labour's new position the resultof lengthy debate and analysis or have they (hopefully) seen that the wind is changing?
Resistance is NOT futile.
As has been said, rolling over will give the Brexiteers tacit agreement to rough road us any way they see fit!
Don't forget Brexit means brexit means fracking means cuts means more Tory hatred.
Is labour's new position the resultof lengthy debate and analysis or have they (hopefully) seen that the wind is changing?
I think that they took a look at the GE results and saw they picked up a lot of votes from Remainers, and particularly the internationalist young, who don't want their options shut down by the old with their faux nostalgia and no skin in the game, and Lab are following up on that.
Quitters like to harp on about how the GE result was a massive endorsement of hard Brexit because that was the platform of the 2 major parties (85% of the vote). Technically that's true but it's also to be in denial that the electorate was given no viable choice so a lot of Labour votes were proxies for Remain.
Most hardcore Quitters voted ConservaKIP anyway. There is only upside for Labour here.
The generational gap is key here. And as the tory cluster**** continues it deepens.
The young grew up with people from other nations alongside them in school.
The old think they're exceptional because they "won" WW2 (tho actually 99% were children or not born) and, having had the benefit of 40 years membership, have decided to deny it to those behind them.
Resistance is NOT futile.
Word.
This is nowhere near over.
We had our chance but blew it. Now we have to live with the consequences of our failure. Tough as that may sound and anti modern thinking about not accepting responsibility for actions
Our responsibility is to work even harder to stop Brexit.
Personally at present I'm doing my bit by spending all my holidays in the Alps
Demographics favour the remainers, as the bitter old brexiters shuffle off to the great 1950's theme park in the sky.
Corbyn has clearly cottoned on to the fact that ion this subject, young people are so rightfully angry about the threat to their futures, that it's done away with their previous electoral complacency.
Everyone knows this present May/DUP coalition farce is totally unsustainable. The Labour Party obviously senses that a clearly non-mental stance on the EU will get them over the line at the inevitable early election
Is labour's new position the resultof lengthy debate and analysis or have they (hopefully) seen that the wind is changing?
I think they've simply realised there's more votes to gain than lose by being pro single market.
Thier 'respect the referendum results' policy leaves them too close to tory policy to make any real ground up given brexit policy is probably the most critical political issue currently.
A second referendum infantilises the electorate, teaching them that their votes do not have real world effects and that poor political choices don't matter.
I disagree, it depends on whether people are too proud to consider that maybe they got it wrong.
It takes courage to say, you know what, that was maybe not a great decision, and there's no shame in changing your mind once you are better informed.
Whether many people's egos can cope with that is a different matter, I suspect many would rather cope with the consequences of a bad decision rather than entertain the thought that they might have made a poor judgement.
Thats not just brexit, that goes for general peoples decision-making, I know many that would sooner suffer than take a hit to the ego and admit fault.
I disagree, it depends on whether people are too proud to consider that maybe they got it wrong.
They're too proud. And stupid. Proud, stupid and xenophobic.
People won't change their votes but some might not vote and other non-voters might bother to. But I'm certainly not angling for a new referendum.
Thier 'respect the referendum results' policy leaves them too close to tory policy to make any real ground up given brexit policy is probably the most critical political issue currently.
The differentiator is approach to negotiation.
Tories know their case is hopeless and are stirring up emnity with the EU to please Murdoch, Dacre and that cohort. Personally I think they're planning to walk out once the figure is on the table.
Corbyn's Labour are, I think, capable of a dialogue. Leave is still the likely outcome, but hopefully on more of a partnership basis, with the door left open a chink, than antagonistic.
Personally I'd rather remain but I pick partnership over antagonism.
oops, double post, most odd!
It does seem that the tories are back peddling at a rate just slow enough not to push the rabid isolationalists of the electorate too hard or too fast.
Whilst simultaneously trying not to piss Europe past the point of a full relationship breakdown.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit, maybe they are just criminaly incompetent. The tory game plan is unclear.
They're too proud. And stupid. Proud, stupid and xenophobic.
Not all of them. Electorally speaking there were a handful of votes in this, assuming majority is the decider on the mythical second referendum.
The tory game plan is unclear.
They're banking they can get it through on the backs of the old before the young outnumber them.
Then the next generations grow up in Farage's Britain with nationalism the key theme. The current internationalist cohort become a blip.
It's party before country, shamelessly.
What's going to be interesting, once they're all back off their hols, is whether labours change of position emboldens the less swivel-eyed in the Tory party to start rebelling against the present confused, hardline nonsense that passes for government policy
Given that May has no majority and absolutely zero authority, let's hope so
A full-scale rats-in-a-sack civil war within the party isn't inconceivable
Yeah Binners. It's not going to be dull!
The brexiteers within the Tory ranks make a lot of noise, but the vast majority of the parties MPs were staunch remainers.
And a lot of them represent metropolitan seats that are also pro-remain. And then theres the issue of funding. The business leaders who traditionally fund the party must be looking on in horror at the potential economic damage to their incomes inherent in the present suicidal hard Brexit approach. I doubt they'll be shy about pointing this out
Murdoch and Dacre might strike fear into the Tory leadership but I suspect not as much as upsetting the people who write the cheques. And those people now have a party which actually best represents their economic interests
Let's just stop and have a think about that for a minute, shall we? The Labour Party, led by supposed arch-socialist Corbyn is now more closely aligned with the interests of the boardrooms and bankers than an increasingly unhinged Tory 'leadership'
I predict all hell breaking loose within the party after the parliamentary recess, because that situation simply can't hold, especially given the leadership vacuum at the top
Yeh I think that's pretty accurate binners.
I suspect there's quite a few lower rank than front bench tories who will rebel if they thought they could get away with it without getting the sack.
Given Mays non-majority, and the resentment at her total electoral balls up, it only needs to be a handful, and this whole thing is dead in the water
Given the fiercely pro-EU opinions of people like Anna Sourby and Nikki Morgan regarding Brexit, I doubt they'll be in the mood to be doing May, Boris, Liam and Dave any favours
Yes. well played Starmer, and I do think it's Starmer.
Edukator - Reformed Troll
If remainers really want a change of government it's easy to achieve. Simply stop spending on anything not needed to stay alive. And when you buy stuff that's needed to stay alive buy EU where possible. The economic impact would be enough to bring down a government with a majority held up by an alliance with the DUP. It just needs someone with enough weight on Facebook, Twitter and so on to launch the campaign.STW might be big enough to start the movement, start spreading the word folks.
STOP SPENDING TO STOP BREXIT
Edukator nails it - humour (even weak humour) is the way forward. Just keep cracking these kind of jokes every time we meet a European. They will be in stiltches and unable to negotiate. Where's Baldrick when you need him...
We had our chance but blew it. Now we have to live with the consequences of our failure.
No you don't. There's absolutely no reason why a second referendum can't be held.
Now the appalling consequences are revealed, on top of the original peddling of lies that by itself invalidates the original vote, there's every justification for doing it again.
All it would take is a political party with the balls to take a stand on the issue...
There's absolutely no reason why a second referendum can't be held.
All it would take is a political party with the balls to take a stand on the issue...
So, what you mean is there's only *one* reason a second referendum can't be held.
Perhaps some polling on the subject might embolden the requisite political support...
[url= https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/14/democrat-party-may-be-launched-in-the-uk-to-fight-brexit.html ]Perhaps this lot[/url]
And what happens if we lose that one? Or it's 50:50?
Sorry but it's time to grow a pair. We are giving up membership of the EU. It's happening. The only issue is the terms under which will will continue to have access to the single market and vice versa. Admittedly a very complex issue that has not been done before. So heads down and get cracking.
The idea that the Labour Party represents a source of salvation is as amusing as Edukator's cunning plan. They are as spilt as the Tories if not more and have a genuinely euro phobic leader rather than a pretend one.Plus there are even fewer competents on their front bench than on the government's - which is quite something in itself. Hard to imagine really.
"Grow a pair"?
What are you, 15?
All it takes is for people to use their economic power to bring about the change they want, THM.
If enough people stop their discretionary spending for a few months the impact on GDP and business will have May's pay masters screaming at her.
Around 40% of my spending is discretionary. There's maybe 10% of fixed outgoings (I don't intend to starve) that I can choose the origin of the goods.
If only those motivated enough by remain to have gone out and voted for it have a STOP SPENDING TO STOP BREXIT campaign we can wipe enough points off GDP to bring pain to those in a position to pressure government.
You were being serious?!? Sorry, I missed that first time round. Let me re-read and respond appropriately.
"Grow a pair"
I'd rather we grew our brains.
Perhaps the most amusing aspect of this thread is seeing THM's determination to be on the losing side twice in a row. First by supporting remain pre-referendum, and now by supporting brexit long after any intelligent analysis shows it to be a hare-brained and wholly impractical proposition which is ultimately doomed to failure.
Glad to amuse. 😉
Of course, the "intelligent" analysis and response is to respond to what is in front of you not what you wish was in front of you. In this case, two different things. That is not the same as supporting Brexshit as "semi-intelligent" analysis would reveal. 😉
The only "losers" - in the real sense - will be those who can't move on and stay hung up in our collective failure to make a case for remain. The winners will be those who move on and adapt to the new world in front of us. Of course, the irony IS that many who voted for Brexshit will not be able to adapt either but that is where individual responsibility comes into it.
(Still there are those who still continue to blame one woman for the demise of their uncompetitive industries 30-40 years ago. Learn the lessons of history and adapt or.....you decide....)
Ed, if we stopped spending then huge numbers of private businesses run by individuals supplying the stuff we buy would face serious difficulties.
THM - it wasn't necessarily what she did - it was the way she did it.
It was happening anyway - "she" was an easy scapegoat and an -ism that was a myth. Rather like austerity. We will get through Brexshit as we got through her. But only if we look forward and adapt to survive
So anti EU folk should have just accepted membership?
Anything else people should just accept and get on with, the present goverment?
Exactly Molgrips, and they'd start lobbying their MPs.
A lot of losers will be people who have planned, executed those plans and been successful thanks to the UK's membership of the EU, THM. Their lives have been sabotaged by Brexiters.
SABOTAGE BREXIT.
We will all have an opportunity to asses the present government in due time, perhaps earlier than expected. That's how it works. But it could be some time before we have another EU vote and the EU will be a very different beast by then anyway. In the meantime.... Your choice....
Exactly Molgrips, and they'd start lobbying their MPs.
That would take far too long, they'd be out of business within a month.
I'd like to sabotage Brexit, but I don't think that's the way.
I think they'd be out on the streets before they went out of business. Or I hope they would.
Edukator so when the "no purchasing" strategy fails what next terrorism ?
We've had a Referendum (with all the cards and rescources stacked in Remain's favour), triggering of A50 with a huge majority and a GE fought with pro Brexit Manifestos dominating the results and the pro-Remain parties humiliated. Yet still the Remainers are trying to derail the process. At least that anti-democratic stance is consistent with the behaviour of the EU itself
Edukator I see all those people who voted against Le Pen are voicing their displeasure at Macron, after all they did not vote [b]for[/b] him or his agenda. Can you imagine the unrest if it looks like French agriculture will not have tariff free access to the UK post April 2019. The CGT are already planning major disruptions in responce to Macron's labour law reforms.